another gospel ("Christianity")

Red Sky at Morning

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The words of Christ, from the Gospel of Jesus according to Matthew, in blue:

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his WORKS.
The works indicate relationship to God but the don’t mean a person is saved (I.e. has been adopted into God’s family through faith in Jesus and is now a son).

John Wesley did many pious works as a religious man before he actually saved.

Full context from Matthew 7

A Tree and its Fruit

(Matthew 12:33-37; Luke 6:43-45)

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Consider His words recorded by John…

John 6

[53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

How can the words above be compatible with Islam, where Jesus didn’t even die? Additionally, if Jesus didn’t die, his words here would be untrue.
 
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A Freeman

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Since we are now 4 pages in and no "Christian" has provided a single verse from the words of Jesus found in the actual Gospel accounts to confirm that "Christianity" isn't preaching another 'gospel', please find the questions asked again below:

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Where did Jesus claim to be God? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?

Where did Jesus tell us that The Law was no longer in effect and/or that we no longer were required to keep it? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?

And where did Jesus tell us that his doctrine/commandments were different than (or superseded) God's? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?

-------

Instead of simple answers to these questions, or admitting they are wrong and are preaching another 'gospel' that is actually contrary (opposite) to the Gospel that Christ delivered, they seem hell-bent on deflecting attention away with false statements, false assumptions and false videos, etc.

Why not just address the questions head on? Let your "yes" be yes and your "no" be no?
 

A Freeman

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The works indicate relationship to God but the don’t mean a person is saved (I.e. has been adopted into God’s family through faith in Jesus and is now a son).

John Wesley did many pious works as a religious man before he actually saved.
Where in the Bible does it say "John Wesley" was "actually saved"? Is John Wesley your god?

Here is where it says John Wesley (nor any "Christian") has ever been "saved":

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of Man which is from heaven.

Are we not the children of Whom/whom we obey?

If we obey God (and thus begin DOING righteous works) then we are God's (adopted) children. If, on the other hand, we continue to obey Satan (and thus continue sinning/breaking The Law/working INIQUITY), then we are Satan's children (John 8:35-36 King of kings' Bible, 8:44-45 KJV).

John 8:35-36
8:35 Ye are of [YOUR] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the Truth, because there is no Truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father (inventor) of it.
8:36 And because I tell [you] the Truth, ye believe me not.


Full context from Matthew 7

A Tree and its Fruit

(Matthew 12:33-37; Luke 6:43-45)

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Thank-you for the verses, which are a stern warning from Christ to all "Christians" and their spiritually blind leaders/preachers/priests, pastors, etc., all of whom are false prophets, thieves and robbers (John 10:1-18).

There is no group other than "Christians" who call Christ "Lord" and yet refuse to do Father's (God's) Will, which begins with keeping (obeying) God's Law.

No corrupt tree ("Christianity") teaching another 'gospel' can ever bring forth good fruit (actions, which are the product of a healthy spiritual relationship with God).

And as you can see from the passage above, all those who aren't doing Father's Will -- that begins with keeping (obeying) Father's Perfectly Just and Fair Law which PREVENTS iniquity (sin - 1 John 3:4) -- are going to be cast into The Fire.

Ezekiel 18:20-23
18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall DIE. The son shall not bear the inequity of the father, neither shall the father bear the inequity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all My Statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord "I AM": [and] not that he should return from his ways, and live?

John 15:1-14
15:1 I am the True Vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit He taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, He pruneth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
15:3 Now ye are clean through the Word which I have spoken unto you.
15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do NOTHING.
15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
15:7 If ye abide in me, and MY Words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you (if it be God's Will).
15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
15:10 IF ye keep my COMMANDments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in His love.
15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and [that] your joy might be full.
15:12 This is my COMMANDment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you
(Lev. 19:18).
15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his "Self" life for his friends.
15:14 Ye are my friends, IF ye DO whatsoever I command you.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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@A Freeman

What do these words mean to you?

John 6

[53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Within your belief system, what does it mean to “eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood”?
 

A Freeman

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The works indicate relationship to God but the don’t mean a person is saved (I.e. has been adopted into God’s family through faith in Jesus and is now a son).

John Wesley did many pious works as a religious man before he actually saved.

Full context from Matthew 7

A Tree and its Fruit

(Matthew 12:33-37; Luke 6:43-45)

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Consider His words recorded by John…

John 6

[53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

How can the words above be compatible with Islam, where Jesus didn’t even die? Additionally, if Jesus didn’t die, his words here would be untrue.
Another strawman argument. And a red herring.

At no time has there ever been any personal claim made that one set of religious superstitions and traditions is somehow compatible with another set of religious superstitions and traditions.

AND NO SET OF RELIGIOUS SUPERSTITIONS AND TRADITIONS ARE COMPATIBLE WITH SCRIPTURE.

It is therefore completely irrelevant what "Islam" teaches, which is another FALSE religion, just as "Christianity" (in all of its forms/denominations/sects/cults) is.

The Koran (Quran) very plainly tells us that Jesus DID die (see Sura 6:122) and quotes Jesus directly prophesying his own death (Sura 19:33-34), and that God then raised Jesus from the dead (Sura 4:158). It merely and correctly makes a distinction between Jesus, the human son of Mary (aka the Son of Man) and The Messiah/Christ, the immortal Son of God (who obviously cannot die, exactly as Christ says in the Gospel, not just about Himself, but about all of us - Matt. 10:28).

What have "Christians" done with the two verses from John that you quoted? They have termed them into the religious ritual that they blasphemously refer to as "Holy Communion", to obscure the Gospel Truth of their true meaning.

The human body requires food as fuel. Once the food has been eaten, it must be DIGESTED for the body to be able to turn that food into the energy it needs to sustain itself.

A spiritual-Being (Soul) likewise requires spiritual food, i.e. every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God (His Scripture of Truth - see Matt. 4:4, where Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 8:3 to Satan/the devil). It therefore logically follows that "eating the flesh" of the Son of Man (His Teachings and His Life Example) necessarily require DIGESTING THE GOSPEL MESSAGE OF TRUTH THAT CHRIST DELIVERED, i.e. PUTTING CHRIST'S TEACHINGS INTO ACTION THROUGH OUR WORKS.

We also must drink from the bitter cup of "self" sacrifice, that Christ drank from when Jesus was beaten and unjustly murdered by organized religion to accomplish God's Will.

Matthew 20:22-23
20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the "Cup" that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Matthew 26:38-42
26:38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this "Cup" pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as Thou [wilt].
26:40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed [is] willing, but the flesh [is] weak.
26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this "Cup" (Holy Grail) may not pass away from me, except I drink it, Thy will be done.

John 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the "Cup" which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it? (the "Holy Grail")

1 Corinthians 10:1-4
10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the "Cloud", and all passed through the sea;
10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the "Cloud" and in the sea;
10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that went with them: and that Rock was Christ (see Exodus 23:20-23).
10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

And here is where Paul CONDEMNED the pagan "Christian" ritual/"sacrament" of "Holy Communion" in their churches, which makes a mockery of Christ and His Sacrifice:

1 Corinthians 11:17-30
11:17 Now in this that I declare [unto you] I praise [you] NOT, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.
11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the community, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, [this] is NOT to eat the Lord's supper (the bread and the wine).
11:21 For in eating every one taketh before [other] his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
11:22 What? Have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? Or despise ye the community of God, and embarrass them that are poor [and have not]? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I praise [you] NOT.
11:23 For I have received from the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the [same] night in which he was betrayed took bread:
11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake [it], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me (every time you eat or drink remember my teaching and "Self"-sacrifice and follow my example daily - Matt. 10:38, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Luke 14:26-27, Gal. 2:20, Sura 6:162, Sura 92:18-21).
11:25 After the same manner also [he took] the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the New Covenant in my blood: this do ye, as often as ye drink, in remembrance of me.
11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come.
11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily [whilst still committing sin], shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup.
11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
11:30 For this reason MANY [are] weak and sickly among you, and MANY sleep.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Another strawman argument. And a red herring.

At no time has there ever been any personal claim made that one set of religious superstitions and traditions is somehow compatible with another set of religious superstitions and traditions.

AND NO SET OF RELIGIOUS SUPERSTITIONS AND TRADITIONS ARE COMPATIBLE WITH SCRIPTURE.

It is therefore completely irrelevant what "Islam" teaches, which is another FALSE religion, just as "Christianity" (in all of its forms/denominations/sects/cults) is.

The Koran (Quran) very plainly tells us that Jesus DID die (see Sura 6:122) and quotes Jesus directly prophesying his own death (Sura 19:33-34), and that God then raised Jesus from the dead (Sura 4:158). It merely and correctly makes a distinction between Jesus, the human son of Mary (aka the Son of Man) and The Messiah/Christ, the immortal Son of God (who obviously cannot die, exactly as Christ says in the Gospel, not just about Himself, but about all of us - Matt. 10:28).

What have "Christians" done with the two verses from John that you quoted? They have termed them into the religious ritual that they blasphemously refer to as "Holy Communion", to obscure the Gospel Truth of their true meaning.

The human body requires food as fuel. Once the food has been eaten, it must be DIGESTED for the body to be able to turn that food into the energy it needs to sustain itself.

A spiritual-Being (Soul) likewise requires spiritual food, i.e. every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God (His Scripture of Truth - see Matt. 4:4, where Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 8:3 to Satan/the devil). It therefore logically follows that "eating the flesh" of the Son of Man (His Teachings and His Life Example) necessarily require DIGESTING THE GOSPEL MESSAGE OF TRUTH THAT CHRIST DELIVERED, i.e. PUTTING CHRIST'S TEACHINGS INTO ACTION THROUGH OUR WORKS.

We also must drink from the bitter cup of "self" sacrifice, that Christ drank from when Jesus was beaten and unjustly murdered by organized religion to accomplish God's Will.

Matthew 20:22-23
20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the "Cup" that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Matthew 26:38-42
26:38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this "Cup" pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as Thou [wilt].
26:40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed [is] willing, but the flesh [is] weak.
26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this "Cup" (Holy Grail) may not pass away from me, except I drink it, Thy will be done.

John 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the "Cup" which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it? (the "Holy Grail")

1 Corinthians 10:1-4
10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the "Cloud", and all passed through the sea;
10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the "Cloud" and in the sea;
10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that went with them: and that Rock was Christ (see Exodus 23:20-23).
10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

And here is where Paul CONDEMNED the pagan "Christian" ritual/"sacrament" of "Holy Communion" in their churches, which makes a mockery of Christ and His Sacrifice:

1 Corinthians 11:17-30
11:17 Now in this that I declare [unto you] I praise [you] NOT, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.
11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the community, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, [this] is NOT to eat the Lord's supper (the bread and the wine).
11:21 For in eating every one taketh before [other] his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
11:22 What? Have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? Or despise ye the community of God, and embarrass them that are poor [and have not]? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I praise [you] NOT.
11:23 For I have received from the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the [same] night in which he was betrayed took bread:
11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake [it], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me (every time you eat or drink remember my teaching and "Self"-sacrifice and follow my example daily - Matt. 10:38, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Luke 14:26-27, Gal. 2:20, Sura 6:162, Sura 92:18-21).
11:25 After the same manner also [he took] the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the New Covenant in my blood: this do ye, as often as ye drink, in remembrance of me.
11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come.
11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily [whilst still committing sin], shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup.
11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
11:30 For this reason MANY [are] weak and sickly among you, and MANY sleep.
I think you are confusing the ritual of communion with the spiritual significance of coming to the cross and realising that Jesus paid for your sins.

A ritual will not save you, only a restored relationship.
 

Maldarker

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The evidence that God has written His Law in the minds and hearts of His Children is them keeping The Law and establishing it everywhere they go (Matt. 5:17-20; John 3:3-7; Rom. 3:31).


The reasons that "Christians" attack The Truth about being COMMANDED to keep The Law for our own benefit is because they don't want to help Christ destroy the works of the devil (sin) by keeping The Law. It isn't personal, at least for me, because it's God and His Truth that "Christians" are actually attacking, NOT me (simply delivering the message).

"Christians" instead wish to believe another 'gospel', where they can proclaim themselves to be wonderful, and "filled with the Holy Spirit" and "saved", while working against Christ and actually making a mockery of Christ's Sacrifice, by continuing in bondage to sin.

God wants us to obey Him and His Law, to free us from our bondage to sin and death, so that we may LIVE.

Satan wants us to disobey God and His Law, to keep us in bondage to sin and death, so that we will join Satan in The Fire.

It's that simple.


Amen. As above please. The evidence of this transformation is described in detail in 1 John 3:4-10.

Anyone who continues to fight against God and His Christ, by refusing to keep The Law/Commandments of God, or promoting the LIE that it's impossible to do so (Matt. 19:26), clearly hasn't received or accepted the New Covenant.



God can only work inside of someone who accepts His Love, His Teachings, His Law and His Christ. Anyone who refuses to obey God clearly is rejecting God, Who sent His Firstborn/First-Created Son into this world to destroy the works of the devil (sin/disobedience to God).

All of "Christianity" works against God and His Christ by advocating another 'gospel' based upon their misinterpretations of the letters of Paul. All because they choose to ignore the TRUE Teachings of Christ, Whom "Christians" claim to worship and call "Lord".
And if you stumble then what? See you think your perfect your far from it and nothing lets bold that NOTHING!!!! you do, can do or will do is but filthy rags but GOD is merciful and thus grace and the law is accomplished through the work of CHRIST (you should know this) and when JESUS tells Peter Matt 18:21-22 that if i'm suppose to do this to a fellow human how much more will GOD forgive. Your problem is the same as lucifer. If you want me to tell what that is i can. I'm sure you know though don't you?

And its not about a license to sin...
See if it was your or should i say AJ's idology (ideology) (yes spelled it wrong on purpose think it fits better) the moment your brought into repentance you should either become stasis or die and wait for judgement because you'll never come back to repentance not true repentance you will just go through motions hoping the shoe don't drop. Sounds alot like the mindset of the elites today doesn't it same spirit anyway. There is no true freedom no true admission that your a messed up work in progress just like the rest of us your PRIDE won't allow it. And there it is what its boiled down to PRIDE. Which your full of.

Because you do realize that YOU FREEMAN yes YOU have to be perfect like CHRIST was no sin never to be perfect in the law. One wrong look one wrong thought etc. You sin what then? Where do you go from there honest answer no cut paste YOUR words bro.
 
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Where did Jesus claim to be God?
Where does He deny it?

With regards to your question, remember Jesus' words after Peter's declaration:

Matt 16

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.


It was never Jesus' intention to claim Godhood, but to have people recognize his Godhood despite His revelation in human form.

But some people who lack the ability to infer from implicit messages need to be spoon-fed the explicit, I suppose.


Where did Jesus tell us that The Law was no longer in effect and/or that we no longer were required to keep it? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?
First counter question, as usual, would be: what is the Law? Is it the Ten Commandments, or all commandments present in the Torah?

Secondly, Jesus said no jot or tittle of the Law shall pass until all is fulfilled. When was it fulfilled?


And where did Jesus tell us that his doctrine/commandments were different than (or superseded) God's? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?
Does the Law prohobit work during Sabbath?
 

A Freeman

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Where does He deny it?
Christ-Jesus denied being God HUNDREDS of times in the Gospel accounts and elsewhere in the New Covenant/Testament.

We have the following TRUTH directly from Christ, through the mouth of Jesus, about His Father and His (Christ's) God:-

(with the words of Christ in blue)

John 10:29 MY FATHER, which gave [them] me, IS GREATER THAN ALL; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I.

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, MY GOD, MY GOD, why hast Thou forsaken me? (Eno. 89:20; Psalm 22; Isaiah 52:13 to 54:1; Sura 4:157-8.)

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto MY FATHER, and your Father; AND [to] MY GOD, and your God.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in The Temple of MY GOD, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of MY GOD, and the name of the city of MY GOD, [which is] New Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from MY GOD: and [I will write upon him] my NEW name.

Matthew 6:9-10
6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be THY name.
6:10 THY Kingdom come. Thy Will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.

John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; NEITHER HE THAT IS SENT GREATER THAN HE THAT SENT HIM.

God very obviously does NOT have a God, or He wouldn't be God, by definition. God is THE MOST HIGH, i.e. there are NONE higher nor equal to God. And anyone who believes differently is actually breaking the First Commandment.

There are over 50 references throughout the New Covenant to Christ as the Son OF God, i.e. the CREATED offspring OF God, where Father (God) is the LITERAL Father and God of our Lord Christ-Jesus, exactly as Christ Himself said (Matt. 27:46; John 20:17; Rev. 3:12).

References to Christ as the Son OF God (50)

Matthew (9):
4:3, 4:6, 8:29, 14:33, 16:16, 26:63, 27:40, 27:43, 27:54

Mark (5): 1:1, 3:11, 5:7, 14:61, 15:39

Luke (7): 1:32, 1:35, 4:3, 4:9, 4:41, 8:28, 22:70

John (11): 1:34, 1:49, 3:18, 5:25, 6:69, 9:35, 10:36, 11:4, 11:27, 19:7, 20:30

Acts (2): 8:37, 9:20

Books with single references (5): Galatians 2:20, 2 Corinthians 1:19, Romans 1:4, Ephesians 4:13, Revelation 2:18

Hebrews (4): 4:14, 6:6, 7:3, 10:29

1 John (7): 3:8, 4:15, 5:5, 5:10, 5:12, 5:13, 5:20

Also, three of the references to Christ being the literal Son of God refer to Him as the Son of THE Most High or THE Highest. Further, there are at least three more references made by Father to His Anointed (His Christ) as His Son.

Mark 5:7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, [thou] Son OF the Most High God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son OF the Highest: and THE LORD God his Father shall give unto him the Throne of David:

Luke 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, [thou] Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.

And in Psalms, where Father (God, the Most High) refers His Anointed (His Christ) as His Son: Psalm 2:7, 2:12, Dan. 3:25.

Also of interest is the designation of the other angels, both in heaven and here on earth, as “the sons of God”, “children of the Most High” or “sons of the Living God”, etc., including:

Genesis 6:2-7, Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7, Psalm 82:6, Hosea 1:10, John 1:12, Romans 8:14-19, Philippians 2:15, 1 John 3:1-2.

This of course is in perfect agreement with the references to Christ as “the firstborn among many brethren” in Romans 8:29, “the firstborn of every creature” in Colossians 1:15, "the firstbegotten" (firstborn/first-created) in Hebrews 1:1-6, and “the beginning of the creation of God” in Rev. 3:14. There simply is no other way for Christ to be the literal Son of God (as well as the literal firstborn).

REFERENCES IN SCRIPTURE TO CHRIST AS “GOD THE SON”: ZERO (0)

REFERENCES IN SCRIPTURE TO “THE DEITY OF CHRIST”:
ZERO (0)

The word “of”, by definition, indicates the origin or derivation of something, e.g. a Son OF God.

Common-sense: A Father ALWAYS comes BEFORE the Father's Son, just as a son ALWAYS is descended FROM the Son's Father. The Son is the OFFSPRING CREATED BY the Father, by definition.

-------

There are over 80 references throughout the Gospel accounts to Jesus being the "Son of Man" (the human son of the virgin body of Mary), something that God Himself said He could NEVER be, as God -- a SPIRITUAL-BEING -- always exists and always will (Exod. 3:14; Num 23:19; 1 Sam. 15:28-29; Job 9:32; Hos. 11:9; John 4:24).

Matthew (30): 8:20, 9:6, 10:23, 11:19, 12:8, 12:32, 12:40, 13:37, 13:41, 16:13, 16:27, 16:28, 17:9, 17:12, 17:22, 18:11, 19:28, 20:18, 20:28, 24:27, 24:30, 24:37, 24:39, 24:44, 25:13, 25:31, 26:2, 26:24, 26:45, 26:64

Mark (14): 2:10, 2:28, 8:31, 8:38, 9:9, 9:12, 9:31, 10:33, 10:45, 13:26. 13:34, 14:21, 14:41, 14:62,

Luke (26): 5:24, 6:4, 6:22, 7:34, 9:22, 9:26, 9:44, 9:56, 9:58, 11:30, 12:8, 12:10, 12:40, 17:22, 17:24, 17:26, 17:30, 18:8, 18:31, 19:10, 21:27, 21:36, 22:22, 22:48, 22:69, 24:7

John (11): 1:51, 3:13, 3:14, 5:27, 6:27, 6:53, 6:62, 8:19, 12:23, 12:34, 13:31

-------

There are over 50 references in the Gospel accounts to Christ being SENT by His Father and His God.

References in the Gospel accounts to Christ being sent by God (52):-

Matthew (3): 10:40, 15:24, 21:37

Mark (2): 9:37, 12:6

Luke (6): 4:18, 4:26, 4:43, 9:48, 10:16, 20:13

John (41): 3:17, 3:34, 4:34, 5:23, 5:24, 5:30, 5:36, 5:37, 5:38, 6:29, 6:38, 6:39, 6:40, 6:44, 6:57, 7:16, 7:28, 7:29, 7:33, 8:7, 8:9, 8:17, 8:20, 8:33, 9:4, 10:36, 11:42, 12:44, 12:45, 12:49, 13:16, 13:20, 14:24, 15:21, 16:5, 17:3, 17:18, 17:21, 17:23, 17:25, 20:21

-------

In addition to over 50 references to Christ being the Son of God (i.e. the created offspring of God), over 80 references to Jesus (the son of Mary whom Christ incarnated 2000 years ago) being the "Son of Man" (something God Himself said He could NEVER be), over 50 references to Christ being sent by God, and numerous references made by Christ that He is only a Servant of God, we have Christ's own words and example of worshiping, praying to, glorifying and giving all of the credit to Father (The ONE True God).

In fact, there are almost 200 verses referring to Father in the Gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and not one single verse referring to "the trinity" or to "the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" -- and that includes Matthew 28:19, where that wording was very obviously ADDED to the original text by the Roman Catholic church, just as they did in 1 John 5:7-8.

IF there was such a thing as a "trinity", as we find in ancient Babylonian paganism, and this is allegedly some critically important doctrine (even though it's found nowhere in the Bible), as most "Christians" have been duped into believing, then why didn't Christ ever talk about it? We have almost 200 verses which presented a golden opportunity to promote the so-called "trinity" doctrine, and yet Christ ALWAYS gave credit instead to Father, Whom Christ plainly stated (at least 7 times) is Christ's God.

Only someone who is either completely blinded by their own arrogance/ignorance or who has never read the New Covenant/Testament could possibly ask where Christ-Jesus denied being God in the face of HUNDREDS of such denials.

With regards to your question, remember Jesus' words after Peter's declaration:

Matt 16

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
Yes, God blessed Peter with the spiritual vision and truth that The Messiah/Christ was incarnated inside of Jesus IS the SON OF GOD, which no flesh and blood human seems to be able to understand.

You do understand what the word "of" actually means don't you?

Similarly, you do understand what the word "son" actually means, don't you?

The Son OF God is very obviously NOT The ONE True God and Father OF Christ, exactly as Peter said.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Christ the Saviour, which according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

It was never Jesus' intention to claim Godhood, but to have people recognize his Godhood despite His revelation in human form.
If by "Godhood" you mean to say that Christ -- the Firstborn Son of God Who was incarnated inside of Jesus (John 1:10-14) -- is Divine, i.e. Of, relating to, emanating from, or being the expression of God, then Christ, did make that claim numerous times (see the 50+ references above to Christ being the Son OF God).

If, on the other hand, you are attempting to claim that it wasn't Jesus intention to claim to be God, even though he allegedly meant to infer that, then you are promoting the exact opposite of what Jesus actually said (i.e. an obvious LIE).

But some people who lack the ability to infer from implicit messages need to be spoon-fed the explicit, I suppose.
Agreed. And some are so spiritually blind that they actually don't know what the word "of" means, or what a Father is, or what a son is, after thousands of years here on Earth.

First counter question, as usual, would be: what is the Law? Is it the Ten Commandments, or all commandments present in the Torah?
Luke 10:25-29
10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit Eternal Life?
10:26 He said unto him, What is written in The Law? how readest thou?
10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this DO, and thou shalt Live.
10:29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

Secondly, Jesus said no jot or tittle of the Law shall pass until all is fulfilled. When was it fulfilled?
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from The Law, till ALL be fulfilled.

Has heaven or earth passed away without any of us noticing?

Does the Law prohobit work during Sabbath?
What is written in The Law? how readest thou?
 
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A Freeman

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Any rationally-minded individual should be able to see from the previous post that not only did Christ-Jesus NEVER claim to be God, but He actually denied being God HUNDREDS of times.

As the "trinity" delusion is the central tenet of "Christianity", upon which all of its false doctrines are based, pointing out the FACT (TRUTH) that there isn't one single verse in the Gospel accounts where Jesus EVER claimed to be God or ever implied a "trinity" exposes this obvious lie for everyone's benefit.

Why is it for everyone's benefit? Because those who believe in such lies from another 'gospel' ("Christianity") are destined for The Fire. And anyone who truly loves and cares for his neighbors would never want that to happen to anyone.

Believing and promoting false doctrines like "only Jesus could keep The Law" or "Jesus did it all for us so that we don't have to do anything (i.e. we can continue to sin with impunity)", or "God wants us to disobey Him so Jesus can save us", or "God wants us to celebrate a bunch of pagan holidays that make a mockery of Christ's Sacrifice", or "God wants us to help Satan destroy the earth and multiply sin/iniquity/injustice/oppression by refusing to keep The Law", etc. as "Christianity" teaches and promotes, are leading people to their destruction, exactly as we've been warned for thousands of years (Isa. 3:12).

Pointing out these facts to others for their benefit is the kind and loving thing to do. It doesn't imply self-righteousness nor any claim to personal perfection to state the obvious that we all NEED God and NEED to obey Him to have any hope of surviving Judgement Day, when ALL of us will be judged. The disciples certainly were not claiming to be perfect when they stated the very same things to others, likewise for everyone's benefit.

Acts 5:29-32
5:29 Then Peter and the [other] Apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
5:31 Him hath God exalted with His right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
5:32 And we are His witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that obey Him.

There is NO humility in continued disobedience to God, nor will God reward disobedience with the gift of His Holy Spirit. The grace period we have all been mercifully granted to come to our senses and return to God is almost at its end, as Judgement Day is fast approaching.
 
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Maldarker

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Mar 23, 2021
Messages
2,353
Any rationally-minded individual should be able to see from the previous post that not only did Christ-Jesus NEVER claim to be God, but He actually denied being God HUNDREDS of times.

As the "trinity" delusion is the central tenet of "Christianity", upon which all of its false doctrines are based, pointing out the FACT (TRUTH) that there isn't one single verse in the Gospel accounts where Jesus EVER claimed to be God or ever implied a "trinity" exposes this obvious lie for everyone's benefit.

Why is it for everyone's benefit? Because those who believe in such lies from another 'gospel' ("Christianity") are destined for The Fire. And anyone who truly loves and cares for his neighbors would never want that to happen to anyone.

Believing and promoting false doctrines like "only Jesus could keep The Law" or "Jesus did it all for us so that we don't have to do anything (i.e. we can continue to sin with impunity)", or "God wants us to disobey Him so Jesus can save us", or "God wants us to celebrate a bunch of pagan holidays that make a mockery of Christ's Sacrifice", or "God wants us to help Satan destroy the earth and multiply sin/iniquity/injustice/oppression by refusing to keep The Law", etc. as "Christianity" teaches and promotes, are leading people to their destruction, exactly as we've been warned for thousands of years (Isa. 3:12).

Pointing out these facts to others for their benefit is the kind and loving thing to do. It doesn't imply self-righteousness nor any claim to personal perfection to state the obvious that we all NEED God and NEED to obey Him to have any hope of surviving Judgement Day, when ALL of us will be judged. The disciples certainly were not claiming to be perfect when they stated the very same things to others, likewise for everyone's benefit.

Acts 5:29-32
5:29 Then Peter and the [other] Apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
5:31 Him hath God exalted with His right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
5:32 And we are His witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that obey Him.

There is NO humility in continued disobedience to God, nor will God reward disobedience with the gift of His Holy Spirit. The grace period we have all been mercifully granted to come to our senses and return to God is almost at its end, as Judgement Day is fast approaching.
Your a really manipulated individual are you not? You sound like your father and it isn't our heavenly one. Think its time to just study GOD's words instead of drivel made by some crazy ass old guy. But hey enjoy dust off my sandals on you have a good life. You poor misguided soul.
 
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Christ-Jesus denied being God HUNDREDS of times in the Gospel accounts and elsewhere in the New Covenant/Testament.

We have the following TRUTH directly from Christ, through the mouth of Jesus, about His Father and His (Christ's) God:-

(with the words of Christ in blue)

John 10:29 MY FATHER, which gave [them] me, IS GREATER THAN ALL; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I.

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, MY GOD, MY GOD, why hast Thou forsaken me? (Eno. 89:20; Psalm 22; Isaiah 52:13 to 54:1; Sura 4:157-8.)

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto MY FATHER, and your Father; AND [to] MY GOD, and your God.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in The Temple of MY GOD, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of MY GOD, and the name of the city of MY GOD, [which is] New Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from MY GOD: and [I will write upon him] my NEW name.

Matthew 6:9-10
6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be THY name.
6:10 THY Kingdom come. Thy Will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.

John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; NEITHER HE THAT IS SENT GREATER THAN HE THAT SENT HIM.
None of those verses deny his Godhood. But when Jesus during His mission speaks, you have to ask the question: "Who is speaking here?"

If I ask you here on this forum: "Who am I talking to?", obviously I'm not looking for the answer: @A Freeman , because I already know that.
I'd like to know the human behind @A Freeman

But then @A Freeman and Muslims would say: "How can a forum account be a human??" if they're consistent in their antitrinitarian objections.

To which I would say: "Ah well ..., never mind".

But we're obviously not thick and we know there's a human behind @A Freeman , and a human in the real world is much greater than what we're perceiving of that human in this virtual VC universe; and that, without the will of that human, @A Freeman can do nothing.

God very obviously does NOT have a God, or He wouldn't be God, by definition. God is THE MOST HIGH, i.e. there are NONE higher nor equal to God. And anyone who believes differently is actually breaking the First Commandment.

There are over 50 references throughout the New Covenant to Christ as the Son OF God, i.e. the CREATED offspring OF God, where Father (God) is the LITERAL Father and God of our Lord Christ-Jesus, exactly as Christ Himself said (Matt. 27:46; John 20:17; Rev. 3:12).

References to Christ as the Son OF God (50)

Matthew (9):
4:3, 4:6, 8:29, 14:33, 16:16, 26:63, 27:40, 27:43, 27:54

Mark (5): 1:1, 3:11, 5:7, 14:61, 15:39

Luke (7): 1:32, 1:35, 4:3, 4:9, 4:41, 8:28, 22:70

John (11): 1:34, 1:49, 3:18, 5:25, 6:69, 9:35, 10:36, 11:4, 11:27, 19:7, 20:30

Acts (2): 8:37, 9:20

Books with single references (5): Galatians 2:20, 2 Corinthians 1:19, Romans 1:4, Ephesians 4:13, Revelation 2:18

Hebrews (4): 4:14, 6:6, 7:3, 10:29

1 John (7): 3:8, 4:15, 5:5, 5:10, 5:12, 5:13, 5:20

Also, three of the references to Christ being the literal Son of God refer to Him as the Son of THE Most High or THE Highest. Further, there are at least three more references made by Father to His Anointed (His Christ) as His Son.

Mark 5:7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, [thou] Son OF the Most High God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son OF the Highest: and THE LORD God his Father shall give unto him the Throne of David:

Luke 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, [thou] Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.

And in Psalms, where Father (God, the Most High) refers His Anointed (His Christ) as His Son: Psalm 2:7, 2:12, Dan. 3:25.

Also of interest is the designation of the other angels, both in heaven and here on earth, as “the sons of God”, “children of the Most High” or “sons of the Living God”, etc., including:

Genesis 6:2-7, Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7, Psalm 82:6, Hosea 1:10, John 1:12, Romans 8:14-19, Philippians 2:15, 1 John 3:1-2.

This of course is in perfect agreement with the references to Christ as “the firstborn among many brethren” in Romans 8:29, “the firstborn of every creature” in Colossians 1:15, "the firstbegotten" (firstborn/first-created) in Hebrews 1:1-6, and “the beginning of the creation of God” in Rev. 3:14. There simply is no other way for Christ to be the literal Son of God (as well as the literal firstborn).

REFERENCES IN SCRIPTURE TO CHRIST AS “GOD THE SON”: ZERO (0)

REFERENCES IN SCRIPTURE TO “THE DEITY OF CHRIST”:
ZERO (0)

The word “of”, by definition, indicates the origin or derivation of something, e.g. a Son OF God.

Common-sense: A Father ALWAYS comes BEFORE the Father's Son, just as a son ALWAYS is descended FROM the Son's Father. The Son is the OFFSPRING CREATED BY the Father, by definition.

John 17

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

“Before the foundation of the world” (= cosmos) the Father already loved the Son. This refers to a Father-Son relationship before the creation of the universe, thus before time, thus eternal. Therefore, everything you've posted in above quotation is rendered moot.

There are over 50 references in the Gospel accounts to Christ being SENT by His Father and His God.

References in the Gospel accounts to Christ being sent by God (52):-

Matthew (3): 10:40, 15:24, 21:37

Mark (2): 9:37, 12:6

Luke (6): 4:18, 4:26, 4:43, 9:48, 10:16, 20:13

John (41): 3:17, 3:34, 4:34, 5:23, 5:24, 5:30, 5:36, 5:37, 5:38, 6:29, 6:38, 6:39, 6:40, 6:44, 6:57, 7:16, 7:28, 7:29, 7:33, 8:7, 8:9, 8:17, 8:20, 8:33, 9:4, 10:36, 11:42, 12:44, 12:45, 12:49, 13:16, 13:20, 14:24, 15:21, 16:5, 17:3, 17:18, 17:21, 17:23, 17:25, 20:21

-------
Who's sending your words here? Is it some kind of human (or spirit-being)? If it isn't, then @A Freeman isn't a human (or spirit-being)?

Only someone who is either completely blinded by their own arrogance/ignorance or who has never read the New Covenant/Testament could possibly ask where Christ-Jesus denied being God in the face of HUNDREDS of such denials.
Not a single denial, not even in the face of the Pharisees accusing him of claiming to be God.

John 5
16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.


Has heaven or earth passed away without any of us noticing?
Are you waiting for Heaven to pass away? Do you think that's possible?

This is about undoing the separation of Heaven and Earth, which was accomplished with Jesus' death on the Cross. Jesus brought the Kingdom of Heaven to earth / he bound heaven and earth together.

Gen 1
1 In the beginning in which/when God separated the heaven and the earth

(the correct translation according to Ellen Van Wolde (and I)).

Matt 5
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

John 19
30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.


What is written in The Law? how readest thou?
Just answer the question:

Does the Law forbid work on Sabbath?
 

A Freeman

Superstar
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Nov 11, 2019
Messages
8,285
Rational: according to the principles of logic.

Logic:

IF
A = B and B = C, THEN A = C.

When A is very obviously NOT equal to B, and B is very obviously NOT equal to C, then A is very obviously NOT equal to C (If A ≠ B and B ≠ C, then A ≠ C).

John 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, IS GREATER THAN (NOT equal to) ALL; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.

Note (simple, flawless logic): Greater than does not EVER mean the same as "equal to", under ANY circumstances. And ALL means ALL.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father IS GREATER THAN I (NOT equal to).

Note (simple, flawless logic): Greater than does not EVER mean the same as "equal to", under ANY circumstances.

John 1:1-2 (KJV)
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was God.
1:2 The same was in the beginning WITH God.

Note (simple, flawless logic): If something (or someone) is WITH someone, it very obviously does not mean that the something (or someone) is equal to, or is that someone.

Example #1: The Bible/Scripture of Truth (The Word OF God) was WITH God. Is the written Word of God somehow God Himself? Of course not. The written word OF God is The Message of Truth that comes FROM God.

Example #2: If Christ, the Son OF God is WITH His Father and His God, and was sent by Father (God), Christ very obviously is NOT God.

A partial list of the logical fallacies (false/faulty logic, i.e. illogical nonsense) that "Christianity" employs to try to twist John 1:1 into their "trinity" delusion (which they in turn use to pretend that Jesus is God):

- false equivalency (using illicit substitutions and assumptions that find zero Scriptural support)

- false dichotomy (pretending there is only one explanation for John 1:1, and that the only explanation contradicts hundreds of other verses, when the the Word of God can and does take multiple forms, is illogical)

- slippery slope (as seen in the irrational assumption that A = B and B = C, which are unsupported assumptions proven to be false, to arrive at the erroneous conclusion that A = C)

- hasty generalization (assuming one verse somehow contradicts hundreds of others, even when it doesn't specifically name Jesus, nor infer Jesus, nor infer Jesus is or was God, is illogical)

- causal fallacy (the Word of God, which is TRUTH, comes in many forms, e.g. by thought/vision, by verbal message, by written text and by the flesh and blood example of Jesus+Christ)

- appeal to popular opinion (i.e. among over 2 billion "Christians" - see Exod. 23:2)

"Christians" are either incapable of counting to three, or unwilling to learn how to do so, or they wouldn't have been duped into believing that Friday night + Saturday night are somehow 3 nights (Matt. 12:39-40). Similarly, if the Holy Spirit is supposedly a third individual making up some "trinity", then why do we not have to know that third character as a prerequisite to eternal life?

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, AND Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.

The above verse is very clearly speaking of two individuals; one is the ONLY True God (Father), and the other is Christ the Saviour, whom the ONLY True God SENT (John 13:16).

It is completely and totally illogical to ignore hundreds and hundreds of verses IN THE GOSPEL ACCOUNTS, many (most) directly from the mouth of Jesus, and to ASSUME that they must mean the exact opposite of what Jesus actually said. And yet that is what all "Christians" are doing with their alternate 'gospel', by falsely claiming that "Jesus is God", even though it doesn't say that ANYWHERE in Scripture (and in fact plainly states that is NOT the case many, many times), and Jesus NEVER said that.
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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Mar 15, 2017
Messages
14,646
Your a really manipulated individual are you not? You sound like your father and it isn't our heavenly one. Think its time to just study GOD's words instead of drivel made by some crazy ass old guy. But hey enjoy dust off my sandals on you have a good life. You poor misguided soul.
Proverbs 26 suggests there is both a time to answer a fool, and a time to cease answering. It gives no assurance the fool will cease his foolishness but suggests a wise approach to the individual regardless.

4Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
5Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
 

A Freeman

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The terms in the description "Son of God" defined:

Son: a male child or person in relation to his parents (or parent in the case of God - Jer. 7:18-19; 44:15-25)

of: derived or coming from; originating at or from

God:
A Supernatural Spiritual-Being (Num. 23:19; John 4:24) Who IS perfect (Matt. 5:48), omnipotent (John 5:19), omniscient (Matt. 24:36) originator and ruler of the universe, and the principal object of faith and worship (Matt. 6:9-13)


Clearly, and by definition, a "Son of God" is a Son that comes from God and obviously is not God Himself.

Only when someone deceitfully and conceitedly redefines the meanings of words, so that they can preach another 'gospel' (i.e. their pagan, religious superstitions) could allow themselves to be fooled into believing that our God and heavenly Father has authored the confusion known as the "trinity", where a father really isn't a father, and a son really isn't a son, and the holy spirit really isn't either the father or the son, but is a separate individual that isn't separate but is part of one big happy triad that is role playing, and that is 3 but not 3, and 1 but not 1.

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is NOT [the author] of CONFUSION, but of peace, as in all communities of the holy people.
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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Legalism Verses Liberty

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" (Gal. 5:1) One aspect of salvation that seems little emphasized today is the fact that a born again Christian is free from the bondage of sin and the "yoke" of the law. "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...," purchasing our freedom with His blood, but as it was in Galatia in Paul's day, so it is today; there are still those who wish to take a Christian's liberty from him. Liberty must be jealously protected. If not, someone will invariably try to take it from him. From the influence of some "well meaning brethren," the Galatians were considering attempting to keep the Old Testament law along with receiving the work of Christ on the cross. Their "friends" were convincing them God would be more pleased and they would be more "acceptable" if they kept His "holy eternal law." Paul, however, rebukes them for such thinking and tells them only a "fool " would willingly trade liberty for bondage (Gal. 3:1-5). "Stand fast" he adjures them.”

From “Liberty to Legalism”, a candid study of liberty, “Pharisees” and Christian legalism by Timothy S. Moreton
 
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