another gospel ("Christianity")

[A Freeman]

You have not answered my question

at all

Of course your questions have been answered, as anyone who visits this page can see.

another gospel ("Christianity")

A question for @A Freeman Do you keep the full 613 moral and Levitical commandments consistently, as laid out in the Torah? Do you add the full observance of Muhammad’s dictates to your law-keeping? Always? Remember God can read forum replies… Why? Why do you continually apply organized...

vigilantcitizenforums.com

So why are you pretending (lying) that they haven't? As yet another diversionary tactic to avoid answering the simple questions posed about what the TRUE Gospel Message is versus the alternate/opposite 'gospel' taught by "Christianity"?

You deem the Bible and the Qur’an to be harmonious and stress the importance of keeping the laws of God,

Correct. When properly translated and understood, the Old Covenant/Testament, New Covenant/Testament and the Koran (Quran) are in perfect harmony with one another.

And they are available now, during these end-times, fully cross-referenced for the first time in human history, in the King of kings' Bible.

which according to your logic must flow from both the Qur’an and the Bible.

The logic (reason) belongs to Father (The One True God and Father of Christ, the Saviour).

There may be some that are ceremonial and Temple related or later and Hadith related,

There is nothing ceremonial left. When the priesthood was reduced from many to one High-Priest for all-time (Christ - Heb. 5:5-10; 6:20 - 7:14). The ordinances were done away with at the cross (Eph. 2:14-15; Col. 2:14-15), replaced with "self"-sacrifice, where the temple is the human body*.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17
3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for The Temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

*NOT Solomon's Temple, which God destroyed twice because it, like all temples/churches/mosques/synagogues, etc. invariably become a den of thieves - which is why God does NOT dwell in such places of business - Acts 7:48; 17:24; Sura 9:107-111).

And there is nothing in the fabricated, self-contradictory hadith, which is irrelevant (as the talmud, and all other man-made traditions -- which make the Commandments of God of no effect -- are irrelevant).

but you must have in mind a core of commandments and rules you feel apply to now?

The Commandments of God are written in His Law, found in the first five books of the Bible, all of which still apply today, as has been shared with you many times. Christ very obviously did NOT do away with The Law, exactly as He repeatedly said.

The answer to your question is found in The Law, exactly as it says in the Gospel (the actual Gospel that God sent Christ to deliver).

So where are the basic tenets of what you believe to be the "gospel" please?

For example:

Where did Jesus claim to be God? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?

Where did Jesus tell us that The Law was no longer in effect and/or that we no longer were required to keep it? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?

And where did Jesus tell us that his doctrine/commandments were different than (or superseded) God's? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?

 

[A Freeman]

Denial, deflection, deceit and distraction. You certainly follow AJH's example and teachings.

From "the way home or face The fire"
3:168 If you were given a sick-body, as a punishment/Karmic debt and you do good, then, your now healthy spirit will start to heal the body, from within, or, your punishment will be terminated, and the sick-body will die, and you will get a new healthy-one, depending upon the severity of your punishment and sickness.

3:169 Human bodies HAVE to die, or there would be no progress; no “fresh-starts”; no way to control the population-explosion, and also, no way to allow nature’s natural process to keep the breed healthy, young and strong. You can not have many more bodies, than there are souls to use them. Bodies were only designed to be prison-cells for the souls (Beings/Jinns), and are themselves worthless.

"Thou shalt not bear false witness."

And what about either of the above verses is untrue in your(?) mind?

Is it not your affection for the traditions of men ("Christianity") and their false gospel, coupled with an obvious ignorance of Scripture, that cons you into believing that either of the above verses are not exactly what Christ-Jesus said?

John 5:1-14
5:1 After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
5:2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep [market] a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.
5:3 In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.
5:4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
5:5 And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.
5:6 When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time [in that case], he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?
5:7 The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.
5:8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
5:9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the Sabbath.
5:10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the Sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry [thy] bed.
5:11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.
5:12 Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk?
5:13 And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in [that] place.
5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in The Temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a WORSE thing come unto thee.

No rationally-minded individual could possibly read the passage above and not recognize that the CRIPPLED body that man suffered from for 38 years in that lifetime wasn't the result of (punishment for) SINS that he committed. See Deuteronomy 28, where God explains the blessings He has PROMISED to those who keep His Law, and the curses (punishments) He has promised to those who continue to break His Law.

So how would God punish a man for living an entire human lifetime coveting and stealing everything he could see with his human eyes, to teach the soul (spirit-Being) inside of that man the HUMILITY that the man desperately needed to learn? Perhaps by depriving that man of his physical sight in the next human lifetime?

John 9:1-3
9:1 And as [Jesus] passed by, he saw a man which was blind from [his] birth. (re-incarnation)
9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did SIN, THIS MAN, or his parents, that he was BORN blind?
9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

No rationally-minded individual could possibly read the passages above and not recognize that the man who was BORN blind was being punished for the sin he committed in a PREVIOUS lifetime.

Do you mistakenly believe that God is somehow unjust and unfair, i.e. that God would punish one soul by placing them inside of a human body that was physically blind, while giving another soul a body that can see perfectly?

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, THAT shall he also reap.

-------

Isn't all of this just you very hypocritically deflecting attention away from the thread topic, so that you don't have to answer any questions about your own silly superstitions and traditions, which form the lens through which you view ALL Scripture?

As previously asked, where are the basic tenets of what you believe to be the "gospel" please?

For example:

Where did Jesus claim to be God? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?

Where did Jesus tell us that The Law was no longer in effect and/or that we no longer were required to keep it? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?

And where did Jesus tell us that his doctrine/commandments were different than (or superseded) God's? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?

 

[A Freeman]

The Real Way Home

Titus 3:3-7 - King James Version

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.​

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,​

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;​

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;​

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.​

Amen. Why then would anyone continue to be foolish, disobedient and deceived into breaking God's Law (choosing instead to serve the flesh/human and its lusts), knowing that in doing so they have no hope of eternal life?

John 7:16-17
7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me.
7:17 If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.

John 14:21-24
14:21 He that hath my COMMANDments, and KEEPETH them, HE it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
14:22 Jude saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will obey my words: and my Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
14:24 He that loveth me not obeyeth not my sayings: and the Truth which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, and Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.

At the very core of the TRUE Gospel is learning humility, discipline and sacrifice through obedience to God and His Law. There is no other way to receive God's Holy Spirit.

Acts 5:29-32
5:29 Then Peter and the [other] Apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
5:31 Him hath God exalted with His right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
5:32 And we are His witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that obey Him.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Of course your questions have been answered, as anyone who visits this page can see.

another gospel ("Christianity")

A question for @A Freeman Do you keep the full 613 moral and Levitical commandments consistently, as laid out in the Torah? Do you add the full observance of Muhammad’s dictates to your law-keeping? Always? Remember God can read forum replies… Why? Why do you continually apply organized...

vigilantcitizenforums.com

So why are you pretending (lying) that they haven't? As yet another diversionary tactic to avoid answering the simple questions posed about what the TRUE Gospel Message is versus the alternate/opposite 'gospel' taught by "Christianity"?


Correct. When properly translated and understood, the Old Covenant/Testament, New Covenant/Testament and the Koran (Quran) are in perfect harmony with one another.

And they are available now, during these end-times, fully cross-referenced for the first time in human history, in the King of kings' Bible.


The logic (reason) belongs to Father (The One True God and Father of Christ, the Saviour).


There is nothing ceremonial left. When the priesthood was reduced from many to one High-Priest for all-time (Christ - Heb. 5:5-10; 6:20 - 7:14). The ordinances were done away with at the cross (Eph. 2:14-15; Col. 2:14-15), replaced with "self"-sacrifice, where the temple is the human body*.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17
3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for The Temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

*NOT Solomon's Temple, which God destroyed twice because it, like all temples/churches/mosques/synagogues, etc. invariably become a den of thieves - which is why God does NOT dwell in such places of business - Acts 7:48; 17:24; Sura 9:107-111).

And there is nothing in the fabricated, self-contradictory hadith, which is irrelevant (as the talmud, and all other man-made traditions -- which make the Commandments of God of no effect -- are irrelevant).



The Commandments of God are written in His Law, found in the first five books of the Bible, all of which still apply today, as has been shared with you many times. Christ very obviously did NOT do away with The Law, exactly as He repeatedly said.

The answer to your question is found in The Law, exactly as it says in the Gospel (the actual Gospel that God sent Christ to deliver).

So where are the basic tenets of what you believe to be the "gospel" please?

For example:

Where did Jesus claim to be God? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?

Where did Jesus tell us that The Law was no longer in effect and/or that we no longer were required to keep it? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?

And where did Jesus tell us that his doctrine/commandments were different than (or superseded) God's? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?

Let me give you an example - Do you keep the Sabbath in the style of the evening to evening observance? That’s one of the Decalogue that is oft debated between SDAs and more mainstream Christians.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Amen. Why then would anyone continue to be foolish, disobedient and deceived into breaking God's Law (choosing instead to serve the flesh/human and its lusts), knowing that in doing so they have no hope of eternal life?

John 7:16-17
7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me.
7:17 If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.

John 14:21-24
14:21 He that hath my COMMANDments, and KEEPETH them, HE it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
14:22 Jude saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will obey my words: and my Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
14:24 He that loveth me not obeyeth not my sayings: and the Truth which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, and Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.

At the very core of the TRUE Gospel is learning humility, discipline and sacrifice through obedience to God and His Law. There is no other way to receive God's Holy Spirit.

Acts 5:29-32
5:29 Then Peter and the [other] Apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
5:31 Him hath God exalted with His right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
5:32 And we are His witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that obey Him.

The Real Way Home

Titus 3:3-7 - King James Version

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[Artful Revealer]

Nothing you have written above finds any Scriptural support, and thus is not the correct (i.e. are a bunch of lies written by someone who is spiritually blind), including your false claim about what Jesus told the pharisees, who were blinded by their traditions (Talmud), that make the Commandments of God of no effect (Matt. 15:1-14).

Here is what Jesus actually said to the pharisees about The Law:-

John 7:16-20
7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me.
7:17 If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.
7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh His glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
7:19 Did not Moses give you The Law, and [yet] NONE OF YOU KEEPETH THE LAW? Why go ye about to kill me?
7:20 The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?

Which Talmudic tradition did Jesus violate then, if not for the Law?

 

[A Freeman]

Let me give you an example - Do you keep the Sabbath in the style of the evening to evening observance?

Yes. The new day begins at sunset according to Scripture.

That’s one of the Decalogue that is oft debated between SDAs and more mainstream Christians.

What matters though is what it says in The Law, not what competing business debate about.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

For me, the core issue I think is perhaps being understood when critiquing Christianity is the relationship between a born-again believer and God’s standards.

If I’m honest @A Freeman you talk as though Christians care little for God’s laws and would just as soon claim grace as a “Get out of jail free” card.

The idea that someone could come to the Cross and understand what Jesus did for them (because of what they did) should then forget the price of their salvation and want to live as a reprobate images little sense.

Paul addresses this question when he asks “shall we continue to sin that grace may abound?” - “perish the thought” is his reply.

All I can say is that I care far more for God’s standards from a position of confidence in the salvation that He has bought for me that I ever was as a young believer in God, constantly afraid I had done something too bad to be forgiven or not done enough good things in my day for God to notice!

 

[A Freeman]

The Real Way Home

Titus 3:3-7 - King James Version

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

View attachment 87835

So you are advocating that we disobey Christ's COMMANDS and believe another 'gospel' where we avoid doing good (Godly) works to show that we 'believe'?

COME ON, MAN!

Several questions, if you please, to expose this other 'gospel':

1. Was the letter written to Titus written by Jesus in the Gospel accounts? No.

You, and the rest of the so-called Christians have been specifically asked where Jesus said any of the things which "Christianity" has adopted as its 'gospel' which, as Paul warned, is ANOTHER 'gospel' based upon its misinterpretations of the letters of Paul.

So what do you do? You run right to the letters of Paul and quote a passage which you wrongly interpret as an excuse to be able to sin/break The Law/do whatever you please.

COME ON, MAN!

2. In your obviously erroneous interpretation of the above passage, you actually seem to believe it's possible to foolishly be disobedient and full of envy, malice and hatred toward others, all in the name of another 'gospel', where you allegedly aren't required to keep The Law/Commandments of God, don't you? The same Law/Commandments which Jesus said we MUST keep to be able to enter into the Kingdom of God.

COME ON, MAN!

3. NOTHING in the passage above tells us we should be disobedient to God and His Law. Simple example: if you ran up a debt well beyond the value of all of your worldly possessions and thus well beyond your ability to pay, and a friend stepped in and made a one-time gift payment to free you from your past debt, is there any way you could ever repay that friend's graciousness and mercy? Of course not.

Does that mean you should feel free to be deceived AGAIN into running up your debt again, to somehow show your love and gratitude for your friend's kindness and love? God forbid.

COME ON, MAN!

4. Why did you cut off the passage with verse 7, if not to deceitfully hide what follows?

For those who you may deceive with such trickery, please see the verses that immediately follow the ones above, from the KJV (capitalized and boldface emphasis added)

Titus 3:8-11
3:8 This is a FAITHFUL saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain GOOD WORKS. These things are GOOD and profitable unto men.
3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about The Law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, AND SINNETH, BEING CONDEMNED OF HIMSELF.

When someone has been subverted by Satan, he can con them into believing they can continue to disobey God, continue to do SINFUL, EVIL works, continue to HATE their brothers and sisters (see: 1 John 3:4-10) and continue heretically believing another 'gospel', i.e. that someone can allegedly do all of these evil things while "being born again and filled with the Holy Spirit".

COME ON, MAN! WAKE-UP!

That is why you and the other heretical "Christians" have been asked to compare your alternate 'gospel' to the TRUE Teachings of Christ, found in the actual Gospel accounts. This request has not been made with any false hope that any of you personally will come to your senses and see the obvious errors of your ways and REPENT of your evil, which would be pointless (unprofitable), knowing that you will never change.

This request is made here on a public forum, to expose your lies and hypocrisy, so that those who are actually SPIRITUALLY AWAKE can see for themselves that "Christianity" is NOT The Way (John 14:6) all of us NEED to be to avoid the worse-than-death penalty for continuing to be a criminal (sinner).

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

For me, the core issue I think is perhaps being understood when critiquing Christianity is the relationship between a born-again believer and God’s standards.

If I’m honest @A Freeman you talk as though Christians care little for God’s laws and would just as soon claim grace as a “Get out of jail free” card.

The idea that someone could come to the Cross and understand what Jesus did for them (because of what they did) should then forget the price of their salvation and want to live as a reprobate images little sense.

Paul addresses this question when he asks “shall we continue to sin that grace may abound?” - “perish the thought” is his reply.

All I can say is that I care far more for God’s standards from a position of confidence in the salvation that He has bought for me that I ever was as a young believer in God, constantly afraid I had done something too bad to be forgiven or not done enough good things in my day for God to notice!

You clearly haven’t read the above post @A Freeman ^^

 

[A Freeman]

For me, the core issue I think is perhaps being understood when critiquing Christianity is the relationship between a born-again believer and God’s standards.

Agreed. And how shall we recognize when someone has truly been born again, by God's Standards (i.e. His Word, which includes His Law)?

1 John 3:4-10
3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also The Law: for sin is the transgression of The Law.
3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our (past) sins; and in him is no sin.
3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he (Christ) is righteous.
3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the Beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever DOETH NOT righteousness is NOT of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

If I’m honest @A Freeman you talk as though Christians care little for God’s laws and would just as soon claim grace as a “Get out of jail free” card.

Correct.

The idea that someone could come to the Cross and understand what Jesus did for them (because of what they did) should then forget the price of their salvation and want to live as a reprobate images little sense.

Agreed. And yet that is another 'gospel' that "Christians" have adopted as their mantra.

Paul addresses this question when he asks “shall we continue to sin that grace may abound?” - “perish the thought” is his reply.

Actually his reply was "God forbid", i.e. everyone should REPENT (stop sinning) as Christ COMMANDS. There's no other way not to continue sinning than to stop sinning.

All I can say is that I care far more for God’s standards from a position of confidence in the salvation that He has bought for me that I ever was as a young believer in God, constantly afraid I had done something too bad to be forgiven or not done enough good things in my day for God to notice!

If that were true, then you would be advocating a full return to God's Standards of right and wrong, found in His Law.

 

[A Freeman]

It is noteworthy to all those who may be reading this thread that we are 3 pages in and the "Christians" have yet to provide answers to the following, simple questions about their other 'gospel':

Where did Jesus claim to be God? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?

Where did Jesus tell us that The Law was no longer in effect and/or that we no longer were required to keep it? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?

And where did Jesus tell us that his doctrine/commandments were different than (or superseded) God's? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

If that were true, then you would be advocating a full return to God's Standards of right and wrong, found in His Law.

God writes those standards on your heart and communicates them by His Holy Spirit after you are born again.

If you can grasp this, you will understand why Christians “attack” you. You appear to advocate law-keeping itself as the solution, yet without salvation you will forever fall short of the will and the ability to keep God’s laws.

Jeremiah 31

A New Covenant​

33But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”​

Philippians 2:12-13

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.”​

God only works in you after you are adopted into His family by faith in the Gospel as per 1 Corinthians 15

15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:​

6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.​

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

It is noteworthy to all those who may be reading this thread that we are 3 pages in and the "Christians" have yet to provide answers to the following, simple questions about their other 'gospel':

Where did Jesus claim to be God? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?

Where did Jesus tell us that The Law was no longer in effect and/or that we no longer were required to keep it? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?

And where did Jesus tell us that his doctrine/commandments were different than (or superseded) God's? Is this not central to "Christian" doctrine/tradition?

^ The above polemic is a popular one with our Muslim friends and has been answered and often ignored a hundred times on these boards.

 

[A Freeman]

God writes those standards on your heart and communicates them by His Holy Spirit after you are born again.

The evidence that God has written His Law in the minds and hearts of His Children is them keeping The Law and establishing it everywhere they go (Matt. 5:17-20; John 3:3-7; Rom. 3:31).

If you can grasp this, you will understand why Christians “attack” you. You appear to advocate law-keeping itself as the solution, yet without salvation you will forever fall short of the will and the ability to keep God’s laws.

The reasons that "Christians" attack The Truth about being COMMANDED to keep The Law for our own benefit is because they don't want to help Christ destroy the works of the devil (sin) by keeping The Law. It isn't personal, at least for me, because it's God and His Truth that "Christians" are actually attacking, NOT me (simply delivering the message).

"Christians" instead wish to believe another 'gospel', where they can proclaim themselves to be wonderful, and "filled with the Holy Spirit" and "saved", while working against Christ and actually making a mockery of Christ's Sacrifice, by continuing in bondage to sin.

God wants us to obey Him and His Law, to free us from our bondage to sin and death, so that we may LIVE.

Satan wants us to disobey God and His Law, to keep us in bondage to sin and death, so that we will join Satan in The Fire.

It's that simple.

Jeremiah 31


A New Covenant
31“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, [h]though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their https://biblehub.com/nkjv/jeremiah/31.htm#footnoteshearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Amen. As above please. The evidence of this transformation is described in detail in 1 John 3:4-10.

Anyone who continues to fight against God and His Christ, by refusing to keep The Law/Commandments of God, or promoting the LIE that it's impossible to do so (Matt. 19:26), clearly hasn't received or accepted the New Covenant.

Philippians 2:12-13“Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.”

God only works in you after you are adopted into His family by faith in the Gospel as per 1 Corinthians 15
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

God can only work inside of someone who accepts His Love, His Teachings, His Law and His Christ. Anyone who refuses to obey God clearly is rejecting God, Who sent His Firstborn/First-Created Son into this world to destroy the works of the devil (sin/disobedience to God).

All of "Christianity" works against God and His Christ by advocating another 'gospel' based upon their misinterpretations of the letters of Paul. All because they choose to ignore the TRUE Teachings of Christ, Whom "Christians" claim to worship and call "Lord".

 

[A Freeman]

^ The above polemic is a popular one with our Muslim friends and has been answered and often ignored a hundred times on these boards.

No honest answer has ever been given to these questions, which are not a "polemic" as you falsely claim in a vain effort to try to deflect, but instead cut through to the very core of this discussion about the Gospel Truth from Christ, found in the Gospel accounts.

The very fact that you won't answer these simple questions is proof that you have no answer for them, as they would only expose that "Christianity" is conning its victims/adherents into believing and preaching another 'gospel'.

 

[A Freeman]

The TRUE Gospel Message from Christ (sometimes referred to as "the Gospel in a nutshell"):

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son*, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

*Christ, God's Firstborn/Eldest Son is the ONLY Son that God ever created alone. All of the rest of the Sons of God (the Angels) were created by God THROUGH/BY Christ (Heb. 1:1-6), so that our heavenly Father and God -- Who is also Christ's heavenly Father and God -- could teach Christ everything (John 5:19).

So right here, in "the Gospel in a nutshell" we have yet another complete refutation of the so-called "trinity" doctrine, that plagues "Christianity", having removed them to another (and idolatrous) 'gospel'.

In context, John 3:16 also includes the following

John 3:14-21 (KJV)
3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
3:19 And THIS is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, BECAUSE THEIR DEEDS WERE EVIL.
3:20 FOR EVERY ONE THAT DOETH EVIL HATETH THE LIGHT, NEITHER COMETH TO THE LIGHT, LEST HIS DEEDS SHOULD BE REPROVED.
3:21 But he that DOETH truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Here, in the Gospel of Jesus according to John, we can plainly see:

1) the destruction of the "trinity" doctrine/tradition, confirmed by HUNDREDS of verses throughout the Gospel accounts;
2) the destruction of the "faith alone" or "by grace" doctrines/traditions, which "Christianity" has redefined to mean the exact opposite of their stated meanings;
3) the destruction of the "we believe in Jesus but don't do what he said" doctrine/tradition that is core to the alternate 'gospel' taught by "Christianity"; and
4) the destruction of the "this must happen first and then this will happen" doctrine/tradition, used by "Christians" as an excuse for not coming to The Light and DOING as Christ COMMANDS us.

Keeping and enforcing The Law/Commandments that God gave us -- which are holy, just and good -- are the BEGINNING of doing God's Will. Obedience to God, discipline and "self"-sacrifice are the core principles of the TRUE Gospel (Good News) Message that Christ was sent to deliver, which is why we must REPENT, remember and return to The Law/Commandments, thereby placing our Faith in Father (God) instead of in our own (faulty) understanding.

We can and should love one another as God and His Christ love us, i.e. there should be no limits to the good we can do for and to one another, if/when God and His Christ are working THROUGH us.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

No honest answer has ever been given to these questions, which are not a "polemic" as you falsely claim in a vain effort to try to deflect, but instead cut through to the very core of this discussion about the Gospel Truth from Christ, found in the Gospel accounts.

The very fact that you won't answer these simple questions is proof that you have no answer for them, as they would only expose that "Christianity" is conning its victims/adherents into believing and preaching another 'gospel'.

Just because you didn’t agree with the answers posted does not mean they have not been given.

The Islamic rhetorical framing of the question usually runs “show me where Jesus said ‘I am God, worship me’” - I found this video from a former Muslim worthwhile:

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Fruit won’t save a person, but “ye shall know them by their fruit”

 

[A Freeman]

Just because you didn’t agree with the answers posted does not mean they have not been given.

The Islamic rhetorical framing of the question usually runs “show me where Jesus said ‘I am God, worship me’” - I found this video from a former Muslim worthwhile:

This isn't an answer, nor even evidence of any of your (false) claims; it is merely the opinion of yet another spiritually blind individual, whom you choose to believe INSTEAD of God and His Word.

In other words, you are literally breaking the First Commandment, by idolizing the opinion of another human, and placing it ABOVE God.

You frequently provide videos -- where some similarly spiritually blind individual expresses an opinion similar to your opinion -- as "evidence", particularly when you want to convey a viewpoint that is contrary (opposite) to that which God has given us in His Word (Scripture).

This is not "evidence"; it is yet another series of logical fallacies (e.g. equivocation, slippery slope, and circular arguments, among several others) and false information, arrogantly presented in an authoritarian manner.

There are several fundamental flaws in the video you presented, which itself is a red herring, meant to deflect attention away from the FACT that you cannot answer the question and are very dishonestly avoided it, while falsely claiming you've answered it.

1) A son is the OFFSPRING of their father. There are no special exceptions to this definition, nor is God the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33). When Father (God) says this is my beloved Son, He (Father) means exactly what He (Father) says. And similarly, when Christ says God is His (Christ's) Father and His (Christ's) God, Christ means exactly what He (Christ) says. Christ is referred to as the "Son of God"

2) God is NOT a man (human); NEITHER THE SON OF MAN (Num. 23:19). Jesus referred to himself as the "Son of Man" over 50 times IN THE GOSPEL accounts.

Spoiler

Jesus referring to Himself over 80 times in the Gospels as the “Son of Man”

Matthew (30): 8:20, 9:6, 10:23, 11:19, 12:8, 12:32, 12:40, 13:37, 13:41, 16:13, 16:27, 16:28, 17:9, 17:12, 17:22, 18:11, 19:28, 20:18, 20:28, 24:27, 24:30, 24:37, 24:39, 24:44, 25:13, 25:31, 26:2, 26:24, 26:45, 26:64

Mark (14): 2:10, 2:28, 8:31, 8:38, 9:9, 9:12, 9:31, 10:33, 10:45, 13:26. 13:34, 14:21, 14:41, 14:62,

Luke (26): 5:24, 6:4, 6:22, 7:34, 9:22, 9:26, 9:44, 9:56, 9:58, 11:30, 12:8, 12:10, 12:40, 17:22, 17:24, 17:26, 17:30, 18:8, 18:31, 19:10, 21:27, 21:36, 22:22, 22:48, 22:69, 24:7

John (11): 1:51, 3:13, 3:14, 5:27, 6:27, 6:53, 6:62, 8:19, 12:23, 12:34, 13:31

We have it directly from our Creator and Heavenly Father that He is NOT, and NEVER can be a man (human), nor the son of man (the son of a human), which would quite obviously LIMIT our ALL-POWERFUL GOD, even if only for a short-time.

Numbers 23:19 GOD [IS] NOT A MAN, that He should lie; NEITHER THE SON OF MAN, that He should repent: hath He said, and shall He not do [it]? or hath He spoken, and shall He not make it good?

1 Samuel 15:28-29
15:28 And Samuel said unto him, The "I AM" hath torn the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, [that is] better than thou.
15:29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor reconsider: for HE [IS] NOT A MAN, that He should change His mind.

Hosea 11:9 I will not execute the fierceness of Mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I [am] God, AND NOT MAN; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.

Job 9:32 For [He is] not a man, as I [am, that] I should answer Him, [and] we should come together in judgment.

John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship [Him] with their spirit (Being) and in Truth.

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, "I AM" hath sent me unto you.

3) God does NOT procreate humans, nor does God (Father, which art in heaven) have human sons. There is no "queen of heaven" as it says in Jeremiah (7:18; 44:17-25). God CREATED all of the SonS of God (yes, plural), the firstbegotten (first-created/firstborn) being MICHAEL, known here on Earth as The Messiah/Christ. God sons are "gods" (Ps. 82:6; John 10:31-38), i.e. the Sons of God, NOT humans.

Spoiler

Matthew (9): 4:3, 4:6, 8:29, 14:33, 16:16, 26:63, 27:40, 27:43, 27:54

Mark (5): 1:1, 3:11, 5:7, 14:61, 15:39

Luke (7): 1:32, 1:35, 4:3, 4:9, 4:41, 8:28, 22:70

John (11): 1:34, 1:49, 3:18, 5:25, 6:69, 9:35, 10:36, 11:4, 11:27, 19:7, 20:30

Acts (2): 8:37, 9:20

Books with single references (5): Galatians 2:20, 2 Corinthians 1:19, Romans 1:4, Ephesians 4:13, Revelation 2:18

Hebrews (4): 4:14, 6:6, 7:3, 10:29

1 John (7): 3:8, 4:15, 5:5, 5:10, 5:12, 5:13, 5:20

Also, three of the references to Christ being the literal Son of God refer to Him as the Son of THE Most High or THE Highest. Further, there are at least three more references made by Father to His Anointed (His Christ) as His Son.

Mark 5:7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, [thou] Son OF the Most High God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son OF the Highest: and THE LORD God his Father shall give unto him the Throne of David:

Luke 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, [thou] Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.

And in Psalms, where Father (God, the Most High) refers His Anointed (His Christ) as His Son: Psalm 2:7, 2:12, Dan. 3:25.

Also of interest is the designation of the other angels, both in heaven and here on earth, as “the sons of God”, “children of the Most High” or “sons of the Living God”, etc., including:

Genesis 6:2-7, Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7, Psalm 82:6, Hosea 1:10, John 1:12, Romans 8:14-19, Philippians 2:15, 1 John 3:1-2.

This of course is in perfect agreement with the references to Christ as “the firstborn among many brethren” in Romans 8:29, “the firstborn of every creature” in Colossians 1:15, and “the beginning of the creation of God” in Rev. 3:14. There simply is no other way for Christ to be the literal Son of God (as well as the literal firstborn).

REFERENCES IN SCRIPTURE TO CHRIST AS “GOD THE SON”: ZERO (0)

REFERENCES IN SCRIPTURE TO “THE DEITY OF CHRIST”: ZERO (0)

The word “of”, by definition, indicates the origin or derivation of something, e.g. a Son OF God.

Common-sense: A Father ALWAYS comes BEFORE the Father's Son, just as a son ALWAYS is descended FROM the Son's Father. The Son is the OFFSPRING CREATED BY the Father, by definition.

4) The video maker very dishonestly claims that saying "Son of God" and "Son of the Blessed" (eulogetos) are somehow different, either out of ignorance or intentionally to deceive. The video maker even admits that eulogetos only applies to God, proving that Caiphas is NOT asking Christ if Christ is God; he is asking Christ if Christ is the SON OF GOD.

5) The video maker quotes a translation of Hebrews 1:5-6, where Christ is referred to as God's "supreme" son, which is NOT what the original Greek says. The Greek word used is πρωτότοκον (prōtotokon), which means FIRSTBORN.

Source: https://biblehub.com/text/hebrews/1-6.htm

What other verses contain this Greek word (prōtotokon)?

Luke 2:7 And she (Mary) brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

Luke 2:7 Adj-AMS
GRK: αὐτῆς τὸν πρωτότοκον καὶ ἐσπαργάνωσεν
NAS: And she gave birth to her firstborn son;
KJV: her firstborn son,
INT: of her the first-born and wrapped in swaddling clothes

Romans 8:29 For whom He (Father/God) did foreknow, He (Father) also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His (Father's) Son, that he might be the firstborn among MANY brethren.

Romans 8:29 Adj-AMS
GRK: εἶναι αὐτὸν πρωτότοκον ἐν πολλοῖς
NAS: so that He would be the firstborn among
KJV: he might be the firstborn among many
INT: to be him firstborn among many

Hebrews 1:6 And again, when He (Father/God) bringeth in the firstbegotten (firstborn) into the world, He (Father) saith, And let all the angels of God worship him (Christ).

Hebrews 1:6 Adj-AMS
GRK: εἰσαγάγῃ τὸν πρωτότοκον εἰς τὴν
NAS: brings the firstborn into the world,
KJV: he bringeth in the firstbegotten into
INT: he brings in the first-born into the

Source: https://biblehub.com/greek/pro_totokon_4416.htm

The term "born" means BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE without exception.

The term "firstborn" means the first brought into existence. God (Father) is NEVER referred to as "the firstborn", because that would mean there was a time when God didn't exist, and it would also mean that someone else brought God into existence, both of which are ludicrous (satanic) assumptions.

And to address your not-so-cleverly worded slur: Islamic rhetorical framing of the question usually runs “show me where Jesus said ‘I am God, worship me’”, here is what Jesus actually said IN THE GOSPEL about this very subject:

John 7:16-17
7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is NOT MINE, but His that sent me.
7:17 If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be OF God (and yet not Jesus' doctrine), OR [whether] I speak of myself.

John 7:28-29
7:28 Then cried Jesus in The Temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but He that sent me is True, Whom ye know not.
7:29 But I know Him: for I am FROM Him, and He hath sent me.