Discrepancies between the Bible and the “King of Kings” version

[JoChris]

Given the multitude of posts laden with disdain for church hierarchy, it could be one likely reason for the omission of the entire chapter. Just do a search for "pastors" under his name and see what comes up. Did you check if their version of the book of Revelation is missing texts? Because there is a warning for those who tamper with that sacred text (Rev 22:18-19)

View attachment 85857

It appears there it is not uncommon for religious leaders to suddenly decide the church is corrupt and form their own. AJH probably denies that, but if he has followers then he is a new "church" founder even if he doesn't ever have buildings.

Harold Camping: [predicted the world was going to end in 2011]

• ...Told yet another caller the five monumental lies about the Church that Camping has repeated for decades: 1.) that the "Church Age" ended in 1988; 2.) that God removed the Holy Spirit from the Church; 3.) that God removed Christ from the throne of the Church; 4.) that God put Satan on the throne in Christ's place; 5.) that no one has been saved in a church since that time.

Charles Taze Russell [Jehovah's Witness founder]
Following his examination of the Bible, Russell and other Bible Students came to regard Christian creeds and traditions as harmful errors. They saw their own work as restoring Christianity to the purity of its first century.

Joseph Smith [pro-Mormonism website]
When Joseph Smith was 14 years old, he wanted to know which church he should join, so he asked God in sincere prayer. In response to this prayer, God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, appeared to Joseph and told him the true Church of Jesus Christ was not on the earth and They had chosen Joseph to restore it.

There have been a number of Christian apologists who went off the tracks at some stage, and then condemned ALL churches. e.g. Moriel Ministries.
I could find many videos as proof but I doubt people have the time to watch them unless they are already extremely interested in discernment minstries already.

 

[JoChris]

I noticed in AJH's "bible" it is relatively common to add bizarre words when Jesus Himself is named, when Jesus is shown to be God made flesh etc. No other bible translation ever says things like "spirit-being".

Some are so bad they sound New-Age! He really hates the apostle John's books and attacks verses in them heavily. AJH's Book of Revelation is probably the worst.

[KoK] 1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that the Christ was incarnated in Jesus? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

[KJV] 1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


@Red Sky at Morning, you should do a thread on this shocker.

[KoK] 2 John 1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus+Christ, (Christ the spirit-Being) the Son of the Father (not the son of Mary), in truth and love.

[KJV] 2 John 1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father*, in truth and love.

He didn't find anything to attack in 3 John which was a bit strange. It mentions the brethren and community. If anyone fits that description, it is the CHURCH!

--
*Mary was not mentioned anywhere in the book. AJH must have read the quran that day perhaps?

 

[JoChris]

AJH decided at the Book of Acts there was a missing chapter 29. The real Book of Acts finishes at chapter 28.
.....The text made its first appearance in London in 1871.
.... However, no trace of any such manuscript has been found, and from internal evidence, mainstream philology considers it to most likely be a fraud, thus it is classed among the modern pseudepigrapha.[2] The lost chapter of the Book of Acts - Wikipedia

It is amazing how the "translated'' script knew the Assyrian captivity was in 722 BC, despite the modern calendar not being in existence in the first century AD.

According to pro Acts 29 websites, apparently there has been some debate about this chapter - I have never seen a single bible which has it though!
If someone wants to search all the translations, then here is the link. biblegateway.com - search Acts 29

Perhaps this is how he smuggles in the pro-British beliefs here and there?

Here is AJH's insertion:
29:1 And Paul, full of the blessings of Christ, and abounding in the Spirit, departed out of Rome, determining to go to "Heber"ia (now called Spain), for he had a long time purposed to journey thereward, and was minded also to go from thence into Britain.
29:2 For he had heard in Phoenicia that certain of the children of Israel, about the time of the Assyrian captivity (around 722 B.C.), had escaped by sea to "the isles afar off" (and to The Rock), as spoken by the Prophet, and called by the Romans Britain.
29:3 And the Lord commanded the gospel to be preached far hence to the Gentiles, and to the "Lost" sheep of the "House of Israel" [the ten "Lost" tribes of Israel].
29:4 And no man hindered Paul; for he testified boldly of Jesus before the tribunes and among the people; and he took with him certain of the brethren which abode with him at Rome, and they took shipping at Ostium, and having the winds fair were brought safely into an haven of "Heber"ia (now called Spain).
29:5 And much people were gathered together from the towns and villages, and the hill country; for they had heard of the conversion of the Apostle, and the many miracles which he had wrought.
29:6 And Paul preached mightily in "Heber"ia (Spain), and great multitudes believed and were converted, for they perceived he was an Apostle sent by God.
29:7 And they departed out of "Heber"ia (now called Spain), and Paul and his company finding a ship in Armorica sailing unto Britain, they went therein, and passing along the South coast they reached a port called Raphinus.
29:8 Now when it was noised abroad that the Apostle had landed on their coast, great multitudes of the inhabitants met him, and they treated Paul courteously, and he entered in at the east gate of their city, and lodged in the house of an Hebrew and [who was also] one of his own nation (a Benjamite).
29:9 And on the morrow he came and stood upon Mount Lud (now known as Ludgate Hill); and the people assembled in the Broadway, and he preached Christ unto them, and many believed the Word and the testimony of Jesus.
29:10 And at even the Holy Spirit fell upon Paul, and he prophesied, saying, Behold in the last days the God of Peace shall dwell in the cities, and the inhabitants thereof shall be numbered; and in the seventh numbering of the people, their eyes shall be opened [to their true identity as Israel], and the glory of their inheritance shine forth before them. And nations shall come up to worship on the Mount that testifieth of the patience and longsuffering of a servant of the Lord.
29:11 And in the latter days new tidings of the Gospel shall issue forth out of Jerusalem, and the hearts of the people shall rejoice, and behold, fountains shall be opened, and there shall be no more plague.
29:12 In those days there shall be wars and rumours of wars; and a King shall rise up, and his Sword [of the Spirit] shall be for the healing of the nations, and his peacemaking shall abide, and the glory of his Kingdom a wonder among princes.
29:13 And it came to pass that certain of the Druids (Druid means Truth) came unto Paul privately, and showed by their rites and ceremonies they were descended from the Jews which escaped from bondage in the land of Egypt, and the Apostle believed these things, and he gave them the kiss of peace.
29:14 And Paul abode in his lodgings three months, confirming in the faith and preaching Christ continually.
29:15 And after these things Paul and his brethren departed from Raphinus, and sailed to Atium in Gaul.
29:16 And Paul preached in the Roman garrisons and among the people, exhorting all men to repent and confess their sins.
29:17 And there came to him certain of the Belgae to enquire of him of the new doctrine, and of the Man Jesus; and Paul opened his heart unto them, and told them all things that had befallen him, how be it that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; and they departed, pondering among themselves upon the things which they had heard.
29:18 And after much preaching and toil Paul and his fellow labourers passed into Helvetia (Switzerland), and came unto Mount Pontius Pilate, where he who condemned the Lord Jesus dashed himself down headlong, and so miserably perished.
29:19 And immediately a torrent gushed out of the mountain and washed his body broken in pieces into a lake.
29:20 And Paul stretched forth his hands upon the water, and prayed unto the Lord, saying, O Lord God give us a Sign unto all nations that here Pontius Pilate, which condemned Thine only-incarnated Son, plunged headlong into the pit.
29:21 And while Paul was yet speaking, behold there came a great earthquake, and the face of the waters was changed, and the form of the lake like unto the Son of Man hanging in an agony upon the cross.
29:22 And a voice came out of heaven saying, Even Pilate hath escaped the wrath to come, for he washed his hands before the multitude at the bloodshedding of the Lord Jesus.
29:23 When, therefore, Paul and those that were with him saw the earthquake, and heard the voice of the angel, they glorified God, and were mightily strenghtened in spirit.
29:24 And they journeyed and came to Mount Julius, where stood two pillars, one on the right hand and one on the left hand, erected by Caesar Augustus.
29:25 And Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, stood up between the two pillars, saying, Men and brethren, these stones which ye see this day shall testify of my journey hence; and verily I say, they shall remain until the outpouring of the Spirit upon all nations, neither shall The Way be hindered throughout all generations.
29:26 And they went forth and came unto Illyricum, intending to go by Macedonia into Asia, and grace was found in all the communities; and they prospered and had peace. Amen.

JAH

 

[JoChris]

It really Is true! The King of King's "bible" omits the whole chapter 3.
Here is the proof: compare JAHtruth's 1 Timothy https://jahtruth.net/kofk-free/62.htm.
and compare 1 Timothy chapters 2-4

Therefore we can analyse what is missing... one or two verses is one thing, a whole chapter must be intentional.

3:1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

14 These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:

15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

So what exactly did AJH find so unappealing that the man - who adds an incredible amount of personal interpretation wherever it suits him in the bible and quran - have to leave that above chapter out?!!!

That deserves to be analysed very closely.

RE the verses 2-13:
this is where it would be fascinating to find out - with actual undeniable evidence e.g. news reports, not "only" personal testimonies* - JAHtruth compared to those verses. The character traits would be really only be known by insiders until they were demonstrated in outward behaviour.
I suppose if AJH was more well-known it would be relatively easy to find if he was immoral etc [like Carl Lentz of Hillsong] thanks to the Internet.
If any readers are aware of that type of undeniable evidence: please give links that cannot be mislabelled as slander/ libel etc.

----
* Earlier this year a brave woman came to the forum and showed some private messages that had occurred between her and JAHtruth.
Understandably because of the personal nature of what was said the entries were censored. 1 Timothy chapter 3 compared against what was disclosed - assuming what she said was true (and there was nothing to suggest otherwise!) - shows that AJH would have been immediately disqualifed according to the apostle Paul.

2 and 2 can be put together via reading the first entry and multiple following responses over several pages!

Bible verses contrasted with false teacher/s' doctrines

God's word tells us to test everything. We must examine whether or not the message someone promotes is truly of God. There are many wolves in sheep's clothing. The media and hollywood are notorious for their promotion of anti Christ themes. The love of God was manifested in Christ to bring...

vigilantcitizenforums.com

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

From one of a freemans posts

Revelation 5:9-10
5:9 And they sung a NEW SONG (Isa 42:10), saying, Thou art worthy to take the Book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and channels: and we shall reign on the Earth.

Channels? As in the new age belief of channeling?

Here's KJV

9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

And the rest of the versions

Revelation 5:10 - The Lamb is Worthy

You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign upon the earth.

biblehub.com

The greek doesn't mention anything about channels either...

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

From one of a freemans posts



Channels? As in the new age belief of channeling?

Here's KJV

9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

And the rest of the versions

Revelation 5:10 - The Lamb is Worthy

You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign upon the earth.

biblehub.com

The greek doesn't mention anything about channels either...

When adding extra words and verses to the Bible or cutting out unhelpful ones, the modifier is faced with a monumental difficulty -

The past.

Greek Manuscript total: 5,856 [2]

Non-Greek Manuscripts (Armenian, Latin, etc.): 18,130+

Total Manuscripts: 23,986

Each of these manuscripts acts as a time capsule, a witness to the lineage and transmission of the Bible text. When sudden new changes or omissions develop, it is usually a sign that an apostate or heretic has got their hands on the script. With the wider witness of faithful manuscripts, these outliers are recognisable by their difference.

 

[The Sojourner]

Hi

The last verse of 1 Timothy 3 directly disproves AJH's theology.

View attachment 85841

Basic algebra:
If A = B, and B = C, then A = C.

If God was manifest in the flesh, and Jesus was in the flesh, seen of angels (and rest of above verse), then Jesus = God.

Hi

If Jesus died and was then resurrected by God, as the apostles wrote, then Jesus could not possibly have been God.
In the Quran it warns that those who say Jesus is God are committing blasphemy and will be punished, unless they repent.
In addition, it gives plenty of logical explanations why that is so.
In the Bible, it also says that God is not a man, neither the son of man.

This does not mean that God was not in Christ, as God is everywhere (i.e. Omnipresent).
Jesus made plenty of statements that makes completely clear that whatever you think or believe he said elsewhere, cannot possibly mean that he claimed to be God. But Jesus was aware of God's Spirit in him and he was obedient to It/Him.

The apostles also consistently make the differentiation (eg. Paul) between God (our Heavenly Father/Creator); and Christ (the Mediator/Master/Lord i.e. Adonai, sent by God) when they wrote things like:

1 Timothy
1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

God our Father (Creator)
Jesus Christ our Lord (Adonai - Master) - sent by God.

If they believed Jesus WAS God, like the Catholic religion teaches everyone (and that carries over into most other Christian churches even today) then they would not have written it like this, they would have stated it plainly.

But, they did not, because they knew the Scriptures, and Christ's Teachings, Christ Who prayed to God, had to eat food, was a man (bodily) and could die (bodily), etc.

The Christian response is to quote outlier verses that are supposed to show that Jesus claimed to be God, because he existed before Abraham etc. but that could not mean that he claimed to be God, as he clarified it all later with his other statements. My expectation is not to convert anyone by saying these things, because no one can truly convert another. Each has to decide what they believe on their own; but merely to point this out.

1 Timothy
3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God was manifest in the flesh (of Jesus), since Christ obeyed the Spirit of God (The Father) even unto his own execution and death.
That is what everyone is supposed to be striving for, is it not?
I.e. obeying the Spirit of God, in order for God's Will to be manifested (in and through the believers / Christs followers) on Earth (in their flesh) like Christ (the Example) did and showed to the world.
By doing God's Will (both for themselves and / unto others).
"Christ being the author and finisher of our faith."
In Revelation, it says to have the faith of Jesus.
Jesus' Faith, was in the Father (his and our Creator) and he obeyed God in living it out, even unto his own death.

Christians however accept a different interpretation that they choose to stick to.
Even though the Bible clearly teaches that God is not a man, neither the son of man (Jesus was a man and he often referred to himself as being the son of man). He knew the Scriptures and to anyone else who knew (or knows) them, Jesus is thereby saying each time, that he is not God, but was sent by God.

The Bible teaches that God fills heaven and earth and that He is not a man or the son of man:

Jeremiah 23:24
King James Version
24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord.

Numbers 23:19
King James Version
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Jesus was the son of man (and son of Mary - Mary was the daughter of man/mankind) and he/Christ was sent by God.

There is the Soul and there is the body.
The body is temporary; it ages.
The soul is not the body, it leaves the body (which Jesus said was worthless i.e. the flesh profiteth nothing) behind when the body dies.

Christ/The Word exists before Abraham was born, but His Father (God i.e. Christ's and our Creator) is as Christ said, Greater.

Hence, "What would Jesus do?"

My purpose in writing this is not to debate anyone, but to strive to show a Scriptural point.
May everyone ask our Loving Creator for His Guidance.
Peace,
Amen.

 

[JoChris]

Hi

Hi

If Jesus died and was then resurrected by God, as the apostles wrote, then Jesus could not possibly have been God.
In the Quran it warns that those who say Jesus is God are committing blasphemy and will be punished, unless they repent.
In addition, it gives plenty of logical explanations why that is so.
In the Bible, it also says that God is not a man, neither the son of man.

This does not mean that God was not in Christ, as God is everywhere (i.e. Omnipresent).
Jesus made plenty of statements that makes completely clear that whatever you think or believe he said elsewhere, cannot possibly mean that he claimed to be God. But Jesus was aware of God's Spirit in him and he was obedient to It/Him.

The apostles also make the differentiation (i.e. Paul) between God (our Father/Creator); and Christ (the Mediator/Master/Lord i.e. Adonai) when they wrote things like:

1 Timothy
1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

God our Father (Creator)
Jesus Christ our Lord (Adonai - Master) - sent by God.

If they believed Jesus WAS God, like the Catholic religion teaches everyone (and that carries over into most other Christian churches even today) then they would not have written it like this, they would have stated it plainly.

But, they did not, because they knew the Scriptures, and Christ's Teachings, Christ Who prayed to God, had to eat food, was a man (bodily) and could die (bodily), etc.

The Christian response is to quote outlier verses that are supposed to show that Jesus claimed to be God, because he existed before Abraham etc. but that could not mean that he claimed to be God, as he clarified it all later with his other statements. My expectation is not to convert anyone by saying these things, because no one can truly convert another. Each has to decide what they believe on their own; but merely to point this out.

1 Timothy
3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God was manifest in the flesh (of Jesus), since Christ obeyed the Spirit of God (The Father) even unto his own execution and death.
That is what everyone is supposed to be striving for, is it not?
I.e. obeying the Spirit of God, in order for God's Will to be manifested (in and through the believers / Christs followers) on Earth (in their flesh) like Christ (the Example) did and showed to the world.
By doing God's Will (both for themselves and / unto others).
"Christ being the author and finisher of our faith."
In Revelation, it says to have the faith of Jesus.
Jesus' Faith, was in the Father (his and our Creator) and he obeyed God in living it out, even unto his own death.

Christians however accept a different interpretation that they choose to stick to.
Even though the Bible clearly teaches that God is not a man, neither the son of man (Jesus was a man and he often referred to himself as being the son of man). He knew the Scriptures and to anyone else who knew (or knows) them, Jesus is thereby saying each time, that he is not God, but was sent by God.

The Bible teaches that God fills heaven and earth and that He is not a man or the son of man:

Jeremiah 23:24
King James Version
24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord.

Numbers 23:19
King James Version
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Jesus was the son of man (and son of Mary - Mary was the daughter of man/mankind) and he/Christ was sent by God.

There is the Soul and there is the body.
The body is temporary; it ages.
The soul is not the body, it leaves the body (which Jesus said was worthless i.e. the flesh profiteth nothing) behind when the body dies.

Christ/The Word exists before Abraham was born, but His Father (God i.e. Christ's and our Creator) is as Christ said, Greater.

My purpose in writing this was not to debate anyone, but to strive to show a Scriptural point.
May everyone ask our Loving Creator for His Guidance.
Peace,
Amen.

A person who contradicts scriptures has a non-scriptural world-view, no matter how much word gaming or human logic is iinserted.
How is your entry related to this particular thread?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Hi

Hi

If Jesus died and was then resurrected by God, as the apostles wrote, then Jesus could not possibly have been God.
In the Quran it warns that those who say Jesus is God are committing blasphemy and will be punished, unless they repent.
In addition, it gives plenty of logical explanations why that is so.
In the Bible, it also says that God is not a man, neither the son of man.

This does not mean that God was not in Christ, as God is everywhere (i.e. Omnipresent).
Jesus made plenty of statements that makes completely clear that whatever you think or believe he said elsewhere, cannot possibly mean that he claimed to be God. But Jesus was aware of God's Spirit in him and he was obedient to It/Him.

The apostles also consistently make the differentiation (eg. Paul) between God (our Heavenly Father/Creator); and Christ (the Mediator/Master/Lord i.e. Adonai, sent by God) when they wrote things like:

1 Timothy
1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

God our Father (Creator)
Jesus Christ our Lord (Adonai - Master) - sent by God.

If they believed Jesus WAS God, like the Catholic religion teaches everyone (and that carries over into most other Christian churches even today) then they would not have written it like this, they would have stated it plainly.

But, they did not, because they knew the Scriptures, and Christ's Teachings, Christ Who prayed to God, had to eat food, was a man (bodily) and could die (bodily), etc.

The Christian response is to quote outlier verses that are supposed to show that Jesus claimed to be God, because he existed before Abraham etc. but that could not mean that he claimed to be God, as he clarified it all later with his other statements. My expectation is not to convert anyone by saying these things, because no one can truly convert another. Each has to decide what they believe on their own; but merely to point this out.

1 Timothy
3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God was manifest in the flesh (of Jesus), since Christ obeyed the Spirit of God (The Father) even unto his own execution and death.
That is what everyone is supposed to be striving for, is it not?
I.e. obeying the Spirit of God, in order for God's Will to be manifested (in and through the believers / Christs followers) on Earth (in their flesh) like Christ (the Example) did and showed to the world.
By doing God's Will (both for themselves and / unto others).
"Christ being the author and finisher of our faith."
In Revelation, it says to have the faith of Jesus.
Jesus' Faith, was in the Father (his and our Creator) and he obeyed God in living it out, even unto his own death.

Christians however accept a different interpretation that they choose to stick to.
Even though the Bible clearly teaches that God is not a man, neither the son of man (Jesus was a man and he often referred to himself as being the son of man). He knew the Scriptures and to anyone else who knew (or knows) them, Jesus is thereby saying each time, that he is not God, but was sent by God.

The Bible teaches that God fills heaven and earth and that He is not a man or the son of man:

Jeremiah 23:24
King James Version
24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord.

Numbers 23:19
King James Version
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Jesus was the son of man (and son of Mary - Mary was the daughter of man/mankind) and he/Christ was sent by God.

There is the Soul and there is the body.
The body is temporary; it ages.
The soul is not the body, it leaves the body (which Jesus said was worthless i.e. the flesh profiteth nothing) behind when the body dies.

Christ/The Word exists before Abraham was born, but His Father (God i.e. Christ's and our Creator) is as Christ said, Greater.

Hence, "What would Jesus do?"

My purpose in writing this is not to debate anyone, but to strive to show a Scriptural point.
May everyone ask our Loving Creator for His Guidance.
Peace,
Amen.

It is actually quite interesting that you should have written this today… I have been listening to an account of an interaction between a Muslim and a Christian where the Muslim advanced a very similar position.

There are so many reasons why a Muslim might find the idea of the Trinity problematic, especially as a polemic against the Trinity is implicit in Tawhid.

The idea that logic and common sense lead any rational person to reject the Trinity is certainly a popular one with some. There are certainly examples of trinities from the natural world but many of them are insufficient in providing a suitable allegory to the Christian concept of the Godhead.

One allegory that made the particular Muslim in question consider that the Trinity could be a true possibility for the nature of God was when he was in an organic chemistry class looking at the resonance structures of the nitrate molecule.

“Some molecules, like water, have no resonance while others have three resonance structures or more, like the nitrate on the board. Although the concept was easy enough to grasp, the reality proved to be baffling. Mrs. Adamski concluded her lesson by commenting, “These drawings are just the best way to represent resonance structures on paper, but it’s actually much more complicated. Technically, a molecule with resonance is every one of its structures at every point in time, yet no single one of its structures at any point in time.” The rest of the class must have had the same expressions on their faces that I did because Mrs. Adamski repeated herself. “It’s all the structures all the time, never just one of them.” After another brief pause, she afforded us some reassurance. “But don’t worry about that. You’re only going to be tested on the structures we can draw,” to which the class gave a collective sigh of relief.”​

See what you make of it @The Sojourner

 

[The Sojourner]

The idea that logic and common sense lead any rational person to reject the Trinity is certainly a popular one with some.

Hi Red Sky,

Scripture also rejects it.

The central doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church's prophesying is, as even they say themselves, admittedly confusing.

However, as Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus and Timotheus wrote, citing the words of the apostle Paul: God is not the author of confusion.

We have to try the spirits.

The Pharisees denied that the Messiah/Christ had come in the flesh of Jesus. They called him a devil and said that he was not sent by God. The Catholic Church on the other hand does not deny that he was the Christ, however they have instead added their own prophesying over the teachings of the Bible, saying things that Scripture does not say or agree with and condemns.

1 John 4
King James Version

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

(Jesus said that we are to love one another.)

2 Timothy 1
King James Bible

7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

God Bless.

 

[A Freeman]

A person who contradicts scriptures has a non-scriptural world-view, no matter how much word gaming or human logic is iinserted.

It's amazing you can write this, as frequently as you contradict Scripture, and not see how you condemn yourself with your own words.

How is your entry related to this particular thread?

Perhaps this very scriptural, believing individual wanted to point out how ludicrous it is for those who don't even understand what the word/number "one" means in Scripture to feel they are in a position to judge Christ, based upon their fairy-tale version of who or what He's supposed to be.

To speak plainly, every single contributor to this thread who is attacking the King of kings' Bible is actually attacking the King of kings Himself, and will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire if they don't repent of that evil, regardless of what they may personally believe to the contrary. That is exactly what it says in Scripture (e.g. Luke 19:27; Rev. 17:14; Rev. 20:12-15; Rev. 21:8), as anyone who loves and has carefully and thoroughly studied Scripture should know.

John 15:17-21
15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it HATED me before [it hated] you.
15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world HATETH you.
15:20 Remember the Truth that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they WILL also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
15:21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not Him that sent me.

Peace be upon you.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

To speak plainly, every single contributor to this thread who is attacking the King of kings' Bible is actually attacking the King of kings Himself, and will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire if they don't repent of that evil, regardless of what they may personally believe to the contrary.

I could create a new Bible called the Red Sky Version (RSV) add extra content and annotate it to suit my own taste.

Attacking this composition would not mean that the person was automatically attempting to attack the King of Kings and mean they were evil for doubting the validity of my enterprise.

On what textual grounds are the amends have you / AJH created this amended Bible?

 

[Wigi]

Hi, sorry Red it's not my intention to derail the thread but I think few things needs to be addressed

This does not mean that God was not in Christ, as God is everywhere (i.e. Omnipresent).

God being omnipresent doesn't automatically imply that He abide in everyone. I think what's overlooked a bit too fast in your post is the crucial information that Jesus actually is Son of God therefore the sole reason that God abide in Christ is because Jesus-Christ, the Word of God in flesh as explained in John 1 actually is part of the Godhead. You would never say God was in Moses or Muhammad, no never because that would be panentheism/pantheism which both the Bible and quran condemn.
It is rather odd though that you enact the quran as an authority in your argument and say

In the Quran it warns that those who say Jesus is God are committing blasphemy and will be punished, unless they repent.

then few line later write

Christ (the Mediator/Master/Lord i.e. Adonai, sent by God)

If you truly concede that Christ is a mediator, I hope you're not a muslim because you probably should question the validity of your ramadan by endorsing this because the quran denies the principle of a mediator between God and humans.

Also it is interesting to put this claim into perspective because you're clearly implying that Jesus encouraged Thomas and many others to commit blasphemy since He didn't condemned their words.

Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.” And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
John 20:27‭-‬29

Christ/The Word exists before Abraham was born, but His Father (God i.e. Christ's and our Creator) is as Christ said, Greater.

Until you tell us whether you believe that the Christ is the Son of God without an earthly father, I'll call a cat a cat and say I believe that you're muddying the water and pick verses here and there to cook a doctrine out of thin air to stir up controversy.

 

[A Freeman]

The most important words in all of Scripture are found in John 3:3-7, because anyone who has not been truly reborn of God from above (see: 1 John 3:4-10) -- as their true, spiritual self -- cannot even "see" the Kingdom of God, much less enter it.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh (human and thus incapable of seeing anything spiritual) and that which is born of the spirit is spirit (a spiritual-Being/Soul).

John 4:23-24
4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him.
4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship [Him] with their spirit (Being) and in Truth.

Here is the REALITY of why the spiritually blind cannot see Christ Who, exactly as He prophesied and promised, would be here again now, during these end-times, to gather the "Elect" (Gen. 49:10) out of this faithless world (Luke 18:8; 2 Thess. 2:3-12):-

Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [Him].

Note well: Elijah is literally "the Revealer of God" (1 kings 18:7-40; 19:9-21; Mal. 4)

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Hi, sorry Red it's not my intention to derail the thread but I think few things needs to be addressed


God being omnipresent doesn't automatically imply that He abide in everyone. I think what's overlooked a bit too fast in your post is the crucial information that Jesus actually is Son of God therefore the sole reason that God abide in Christ is because Jesus-Christ, the Word of God in flesh as explained in John 1 actually is part of the Godhead. You would never say God was in Moses or Muhammad, no never because that would be panentheism/pantheism which both the Bible and quran condemn.
It is rather odd though that you enact the quran as an authority in your argument and say



then few line later write

If you truly concede that Christ is a mediator, I hope you're not a muslim because you probably should question the validity of your ramadan by endorsing this because the quran denies the principle of a mediator between God and humans.

Also it is interesting to put this claim into perspective because you're clearly implying that Jesus encouraged Thomas and many others to commit blasphemy since He didn't condemned their words.

Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.” And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
John 20:27‭-‬29


Until you tell us whether you believe that the Christ is the Son of God without an earthly father, I'll call a cat a cat and say I believe that you're muddying the water and pick verses here and there to cook a doctrine out of thin air to stir up controversy.

I posted this interesting example from science that is certainly real but hard to grasp…

What did you make of it @Wigi

 

[AspiringSoul]

How do you feel about the fact that texts like The book of Kings, contradict Chronicles..and some of the stories in these books, do not add up logically.

Example...

in Kings, we are given direct insight into the inner thoughts of Solomon. That is, what he was thinking in his head.

How would the author know this? This was not a prophetic text, it was not God-inspired but people say it was authored by a prophet (unknown).
In this book we are told that Solomon became a pagan. In Solomon's own book, Ecclesiastes 'all things under the sun' meant 'all wordly things' ie 'is there any happiness in earthly things?'. Solomon tested himself was everything inc women, yet he concluded each time 'this is vanity' and he was not phased by any of it. Most men inc myself would def be phased. We would lose our heads, our souls etc to such temptation.

You're equating a false interpretation with satanic interference, but when you see direct attacks against men of God, prophets, in the bible...you have no problem with it.
Even though the canonicty of the bible was determined by random dubious men.

 

[Karlysymon]

To speak plainly, every single contributor to this thread who is attacking the King of kings' Bible is actually attacking the King of kings Himself, and will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire if they don't repent of that evil, regardless of what they may personally believe to the contrary. That is exactly what it says in Scripture (e.g. Luke 19:27; Rev. 17:14; Rev. 20:12-15; Rev. 21:8), as anyone who loves and has carefully and thoroughly studied Scripture should know.

Hahahaha....this actually made me break out in laughter that i had to respond.

Deja Vu


Every single imposter plays this card....past, present & future. When Matthew 24:24 comes alive before our eyes, they'll make the same claims. Even Satan himself, when he impersonates Christ will say "attacks on me are attacks on God Himself". Go ahead, charge us with blasphemy! I will repost this tweet because when i saw it early last year, i knew we were being prepared for something big. When blasphemy laws are resurrected in the West at the behest and in service of the Fallen Archangel, let's see if all the low-level imposters are going to survive that chopping block.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516053820425609226

Our Saviour (the REAL one) is seated at the right hand of God (Heb 1:3) and lives to intercede for us as a High Priest (Heb 4:14, 5:20). He has much BETTER things to do than clamor for an earthly throne on some tiny island off the continent or engage in alleged [ ] dalliances.

 

[A Freeman]

I could create a new Bible called the Red Sky Version (RSV) add extra content and annotate it to suit my own taste.

You mean just as "Christianity" has been doing for the past 2000 years with dozens of different Bible versions and extra-Biblical texts?

Attacking this composition would not mean that the person was automatically attempting to attack the King of Kings

Of course it wouldn't. You aren't the King of kings, nor would the "Red Sky Version" be scriptural (i.e. there is no Biblical reference to Christ as "The Red Sky"), whereas the King of kings' Bible absolutely is straight out of Scripture (Rev. 19:11-16) and is a name reserved by God Himself for Christ alone.

and mean they were evil for doubting the validity of my enterprise.

Judge a tree by its fruits (Matt. 7:16-20). Should men be ruled by The Law of God or by the whims of earthly dictators, like those of Egypt, Babylon, and ROME (the direct descendants of the Babylonians and co-criminal conspirators and murderers of Jesus), etc.?

Should Christ not be allowed to set straight the absolute mess that Roman Catholicism has made ADDING to AND SUBTRACTING from Scripture in direct contravention of Father's Law (Deut. 4:2; 12:8; 12:32)? Is that not exactly what Christ promised His Disciples He WOULD do, right before Judgment Day (John 16:25; Rev. 10:6-10)?

On what textual grounds are the amends have you / AJH created this amended Bible?

From the Book of Enoch (God's first prophet), which the Roman Catholic church unlawfully removed from Scripture:-

THE INCORRECT WRITING OF GOD'S WORDS PROPHESIED:-

104:8 They shall speak evil things; they shall utter falsehood (ch. 97:2); create a great creation (false religions and religious traditions and technology); and compose books of their own words (books of man-made laws; books of the religious traditions of their fathers; novels; etc.; etc.; etc. - ch. 68:13).

HOW TO RECOGNISE AND CORRECT THE MISTAKES:-

But when they shall write correctly all My words in their own languages,
104:9 They (My words) shall neither change nor diminish (Mark 13:31; Matt. 5:17-19); but when all shall be written correctly; ALL, which from the first I have uttered concerning them shall concur (John 10:35; Sura 15:9).
104:10 Another secret also I point out. To the righteous and the wise shall be given Books of joy, of integrity, and of great Wisdom. To them shall Books be given (Rev. 2:17), in which they shall believe (and Live by);
104:11 And in which they shall rejoice. And all the righteous shall be rewarded, who from these (Books) shall acquire the Knowledge of The Straight Way.

And from The Law:-

Deuteronomy 17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; [but] at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

And from the Gospel:-

John 10:34-35
10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, I said, Ye are gods (Psalm 82:6 - spiritual-Beings/the children of God)?
10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the Word of God came, and THE SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE BROKEN;
10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

And in the Koran/Quran:-

Sura 39:23. "I AM" has revealed (from time to time) the most beautiful Message in the form of a Book, CONSISTENT WITH ITSELF, (yet) repeating (its teaching in various aspects): the skins of those who fear their Lord tremble thereat; then their skins and their hearts do soften to the celebration of "I AM"'s praises (Prov. 1:7; 9:10). Such is the Guidance from "I AM": He guides therewith whom He pleases, but such as "I AM" leaves to stray, can have none to guide.

 

[A Freeman]

How do you feel about the fact that texts like The book of Kings, contradict Chronicles..and some of the stories in these books, do not add up logically.

Example...

in Kings, we are given direct insight into the inner thoughts of Solomon. That is, what he was thinking in his head.

How would the author know this?

Sura 66:3. When the Prophet disclosed a matter in confidence to one of his consorts, and she then divulged it (to another), and "I AM" made it known to him, he confirmed part thereof and repudiated a part. Then when he told her thereof, she said, "Who told thee this? "He said, "He told me Who knows and is well-acquainted (with all things)."

This was not a prophetic text, it was not God-inspired but people say it was authored by a prophet (unknown).

Who said it was not God-inspired? And should we believe them rather than believe The One Who knows and is well-acquainted (with all things)?

In this book we are told that Solomon became a pagan.

Correct. Why did that happen? Because Solomon stopped keeping The Law that he promised to uphold to the utmost of his power. He multiplied gold and silver to himself, and horses and worldly possessions, as well as wives (see Deut. 17:14-20). The wealth and particularly all of the wives turned his focus from the things from above (the spiritual) to the things that are below (the worldly, human treasures and pleasures).

In Solomon's own book, Ecclesiastes 'all things under the sun' meant 'all wordly things' ie 'is there any happiness in earthly things?'. Solomon tested himself was everything inc women, yet he concluded each time 'this is vanity' and he was not phased by any of it. Most men inc myself would def be phased. We would lose our heads, our souls etc to such temptation.

And Solomon was "phased" by it, and gave in to the temptation to break God's Law, to serve the wives that he should never have multiplied to himself in the first place.

All of the prophets, except for Elijah and Jesus (who were both incarnated by Prince Michael/Christ), were still men, who were capable of and did make mistakes. The idea that it wasn't possible for a prophet to sin/break The Law is a myth (lie) that is taught in the organized religion that calls itself "Islam", which is based on the totally fabricated, self-contradictory hadith (the traditions of the fathers/elders), which contravenes Scripture.

You're equating a false interpretation with satanic interference, but when you see direct attacks against men of God, prophets, in the bible...you have no problem with it.

As the Scripture says, there are NONE righteous, no, not one (Ps. 53:1-3; Rom. 3:10-12; Sura 96:6-8). That includes the prophets.

Even though the canonicty of the bible was determined by random dubious men.

Dubious men who didn't have any idea of what they were actually reading, and that were only allowed by God to throw in some vanities, to test and humble the hard-hearted (Sura 22:52-55).

 

[The Sojourner]

If you truly concede that Christ is a mediator, I hope you're not a muslim because you probably should question the validity of your ramadan by endorsing this because the quran denies the principle of a mediator between God and humans.

I find this a silly attempt to try and stoke division.

The mediation is now, not on the Day of Judgment.

What is a mediator?

A mediator is someone who is sent, to help reestablish communication between two parties.
Christ did this by showing people how they need to be by example, and giving an example how to correctly pray to God, etc. in order to help bring the people back to having direct spirit communication with God, NOW.

A mediator offers help by showing how it is done. Christ showed the Way.
They say and they show, "Here, watch me, see this is how you do it".

But, they don't do it for you.
Because they can't. Only you can.
You/we/the people have to do it ourselves to benefit from the instruction.
Otherwise, the mediation effort (in the present) won't change anything, as it won't have any effect.
You have to accept and embrace the mediation effort, in the here and now, in order to benefit from it.

A mediator does not do anything for you, that you have to be doing yourself.
Mediation also does not absolve you of any personal responsibility, to learn to act correctly.

A mediator helps by showing how to reestablish communication.

Christ taught that we are to pray to our Father/Creator/God in heaven, Who is Perfect.
That means we are the ones who have to change.

The Quran does not deny this, it confirms what came before it.