@pescatarian09
You have no clue what i'm even trying to say, just giving me the textbook trained islamic response.
1) you have the Quran...and then you have Hadith.
The Hadith are historical sources of information giving us clues on the sunnah of the prophet. It goes without saying the hadith are not infallible.
In fact if you read the Quran, no where does it specifically confirm the authenticity/validity of hadith..
yet many times over, did the Quran specifically CONFIRM and validate the Torah and Gospel.
Now this is venturing into another topic, so I won't get into this too much, it goes like this
muslim trained response after muslims have collectively been reading books printed out of riyadh
"the bible is altered, the Quran says so"
Re: the Quran doesn't say that at all, what it alludes to is that the people of the book used to misinterpret the book and present it to muslims. The hadith do present some insight on this directly. In the only example where the prophet SAW became angry towards the 'torah' it was this context
Narrated Abu Huraira: The people of the Scripture (Jews) used to recite the torah in Hebrew and they used to explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. On that Allah's Apostle said, "Do not believe the people of the Scripture or disbelieve them, but say:-- "We believe in Allah and what is revealed to us." (2.136) (Book #60, Hadith #12)
hence the Quran contains verses like this
But those among them who did wrong changed the word that had been told to them. So We sent on them a torment from the heaven in return for their wrong-doings.
(سورة الأعراف, Al-A'raaf, Chapter #7, Verse #162)
this doesnt mean they changed the core text, it means they changed the interpretations/translations.
I don't believe in contradictions..either the Torah and Gospel are altered and corrupt, or they are wholly trustworthy...
and yet the Quran says this various times
And believe in what I have sent down (this Qur'an), confirming that which is with you, [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (gospel)], and be not the first to disbelieve therein, and buy [get (تاخذ اجرا)] not with My Verses [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (gospel)] a small price (i.e. getting a small gain by selling My Verses), and fear Me and Me Alone.
(سورة البقرة, Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #41)
the grand irony is that the muslim translators and interpretors are guilty of 'altering the word' in the same manner, many times, since they tend to [insert their own meaning like this], mohsin khan is a notorious example.
Now think about this..
the Quran directly confirmed the Torah and the Gospel, yet you as a muslim chose to follow hadith above them, despite no divine confirmation?
For me the hadith are historical sources of information that do matter and i value them. I don't discard them, but im all about absorbing everything i can to understand it all better.
when any apparent contradiction appears, i put that down to my own ignorance and don't just discard the book.
The point here is, you and most muslims have committed grave errors on this matter for a long time and you don't seem to have any issue with that part.
2)
This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My Grace upon you, and have chosen Islam for you as your religion. - 5:3
Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
this has nothing to do with Sunnah. Matters of Halal and Haram are not matters of sunnah, they're matter of Fard as per the Quranic order.
so it was all completed right? so how did the 4 imams come about,t he hadith?
that my friend, pertains to the hikmah of various people...
and that is my point. Hikmah is subject to chance depending on the circumstances.
the Fard isn't up for debate. I'm talking about the traditions/rulings that have no place today for many muslims.
For example, STONING is in the hadith, yet it isn't in the Quran.
what do you think? to stone or not to stone? what's your hikmah saying because the hadith suggest that the prophet SAW himself practiced it, yet even within the hadith it's suggested that the prophet tried to avoid it if possible.
stoning ironically is not even from the Torah, the Torah says 'put to death' not 'stone', However the same jewish interpretations written by rabbis were hell bent on stoning and yet they couldnt even practice the rabbinic traditions correctly.
3)
examples of hikmah in the time of the prophet compared to today
-a man was to provide a wife with a home. She was entitled to her own space/home. the wife's role was to tend to the home and children (if any). in fact she wasnt obligated to even cook food for her husband if she didnt want to. she especially wasnt obligated to take her of her in-laws.
-daughters were not given away to another family, as pakistani muslims and others practice...so in that time a man could likewise daughter-in-laws were not replacements for daughters.
basically back then, a man could build a house from straw/mud for his wife..and a few yards away have one for his parents. not much of a cost to him right?
back then they had slaves too...so yeh i mean im sure many muslim men also had slaves taking care of their elderly parents. great.
if a man had sisters around, they would also be obligated to take care of their parents, it was a joint effort.
contexts today differ
-how much does a house cost today? can an ave guy have a house for his wife and his mother close by, whilst tending to his obligations to both?
-females in the family, many of them tend to get married and quickly move along, shirking their obligations to their mother (esp in a cultural context) and saying 'im part of a different family now' and simultaneosely they'll also discard any care towards their in-laws under the argument that 'this isnt part of islam'
right or wrong, it presents a heavy burden for a guy, right?
now women have to take careof the HOUSE? washing machines, dish washers, vacuum cleaners. big task that man. so it's much easier for females, but life is a lot more difficult for a guy trying to meet his obligations.
something goes wrong with the house, who's dealing with it? plumbing? building, masonry work, roofing? it's a man's headache.
something goes wrong with the car, man's job.
again it's much more difficult for a man.
yet a man isnt rewarded with concubines and second wives he can force on his ignorant wife..
no, he has to fear secular law where if he divorces it's 50% to his wife minimum...whilst she enjoyed the outdated rules of islam that have no place no context anymore.
-oh yeh, special hikmah 101
if a wife refuses her husband, she is cursed..
today if a man forces himself on his wife using the hadith as his excuse, it's r*pe..(as it should be)
so for all a mans obligations, he aint getting any either...
sorry mate, its needs an update..and none of the above is based on the Quran anyway.
this is where common sense, ie 'wisdom' comes into play.
Abu layth, for all his ills, has spoken of these matters.
he's also highlighted the fact that sex is not evil...and yet it's treated as such whilst marraige is delayed for many people, meaning they go through their entire teens and even 20s, unmarried..
where is all that energy meant to go brah?
you can create some random shit excuse and say 'well...people need to let go of bad cultural practices'
great...but it doesnt discount the fact that said cultural practices do exist and came into play within an islamic framework, meaning the muslim consensus/ulema actively encouraged it..
at what point did it become the norm to marry first cousins and keep women from an education?
what about birth control? 10 kids a house?
"but but Allah said he will feed them"
"Allah provides the rizq"
"the prophet said don't use condoms, the prophet said have a lot of kids"
yeh, in a time when the worlds population was low and muslims were few in number and struggling from war and disease, he encouraged people to have larger families..that was his hikmah for his time
how about now? 5000 billion people in pakistan and bangladesh, wen condoms bro?
they cant stop popping out kids they cant fucking feed and yet 'Allah is giving them rizq' (no they beg for it).
in fact when anyone dares to mention birth control, the masses get angry.
hikmah is meant to actively deal with the contexts as they appear, find a solution
but all you guys do is ask 'wut does da hadeef say doe'
idiots.
:quality(70)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/cmg/EGUFUL24OZGUFAQE3TQ2ENHGXY.jpg)
www.wsbtv.com
apnews.com
www.13newsnow.com
fox59.com
abcnews.go.com
www.facebook.com
