Signs of the hour / proofs of Islam

Daze

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Thanks for telling it like it is. I also would have liked to see a reference from Daze for the claim that "Allah is God the Father", especially since "100% of Muslims say" it, but as it stands it is merely a recent invention of Muslims who want to proselytize to Christians even if there is no theological basis for it or it contradicts their own religion (i.e. the Qur'an says numerous times Allah has no son); a kind of bait and switch.
Allah is God the father as they are one and the same. I've said this multiple times.

Billy is right. I say this for the benefit of Christians. I would never refer to the Creator as God the Father if i was surrounded by Muslims, I'd use Allah. but this doesn't change the fact they are not the same diety.
Allah is God the father.

If your mother tongue is English then you knew exactly what i meant. You're only being difficult.

It is not a recent invention at all. Since the time of Adam there has only ever been one God.

Now please continue derailing my thread because it's always been all about you.

"say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him
(29:46 Quran)
 






billy t

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Thanks for telling it like it is. I also would have liked to see a reference from Daze for the claim that "Allah is God the Father", especially since "100% of Muslims say" it, but as it stands it is merely a recent invention of Muslims who want to proselytize to Christians even if there is no theological basis for it or it contradicts their own religion (i.e. the Qur'an says numerous times Allah has no son); a kind of bait and switch.
Well when the Bible refers to the Father then it is referring to Allah because it has a different connotation in the original text. So when Jesus is quoted as saying I am going to my Father and your Father to my God and your God then yes, this is referring to Allah which is the same God referred to by Jews and Christians. The issue is Jews and Christians associate others on worship with Him or give Him the attributes of the creation or vice versa. Am texting from my phone (usually use PC) so hope this all makes sense.
 






billy t

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Allah is God the father as they are one and the same. I've said this multiple times.

Billy is right. I say this for the benefit of Christians. I would never refer to the Creator as God the Father if i was surrounded by Muslims, I'd use Allah. but this doesn't change the fact they are not the same diety.
Allah is God the father.

If your mother tongue is English then you knew exactly what i meant. You're only being difficult.

It is not a recent invention at all. Since the time of Adam there has only ever been one God.

Now please continue derailing my thread because it's always been all about you.

"say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him
(29:46 Quran)
Saheeh akhi. I just gave more detail to avoid any ambiguity.
 






billy t

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Saheeh akhi. I just gave more detail to avoid any ambiguity.
In regard to the topic at hand. The defeat of the Roman's, Persians and others is a strong evidence. It should be noted that these are clear statements about the future and not vague speech that can be interpreted in multiple ways as was the case with Nastradomous for example. The prophet salAllahu alaiyhi wasallam spoke in a way that was clear and easy for everyone to understand. Allah says we sent down this quran that you (the prophet) may explain to mankind what was revealed to them. One doubt that non Muslims often bring is the multiplicity of sects in Islaam. This is something the prophet salAllahu alaiyhi wasallam said would happen. He sal Allahu alaiyhiwasallam also gave us the solution to the splitting: following the Qur'an and and sunnah. So this is a proof of his prophethood. Therefore Muslims who say all the sects are from Islam and upon good do injustice to spreading the truth about Islam as they encourage this doubt rather than repel it. The prophet salAllahu alaiyhi wasallam also said Islam began as a stranger and will return as a stranger so glad tidings to the strangers. This means that evil and misguidance will become the norm. Sex outside wedlock is now the norm. Homosexuality is now the norm. Men acting like woman is the norm. Hence when Muslims truly follow Islam they will be seen as strangers among mankind. Not only that when Muslims are split into different sects and misguided views then those who follow the way of the early Muslims are alsi seen as strangers.
 






billy t

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In regard to the topic at hand. The defeat of the Roman's, Persians and others is a strong evidence. It should be noted that these are clear statements about the future and not vague speech that can be interpreted in multiple ways as was the case with Nastradomous for example. The prophet salAllahu alaiyhi wasallam spoke in a way that was clear and easy for everyone to understand. Allah says we sent down this quran that you (the prophet) may explain to mankind what was revealed to them. One doubt that non Muslims often bring is the multiplicity of sects in Islaam. This is something the prophet salAllahu alaiyhi wasallam said would happen. He sal Allahu alaiyhiwasallam also gave us the solution to the splitting: following the Qur'an and and sunnah. So this is a proof of his prophethood. Therefore Muslims who say all the sects are from Islam and upon good do injustice to spreading the truth about Islam as they encourage this doubt rather than repel it. The prophet salAllahu alaiyhi wasallam also said Islam began as a stranger and will return as a stranger so glad tidings to the strangers. This means that evil and misguidance will become the norm. Sex outside wedlock is now the norm. Homosexuality is now the norm. Men acting like woman is the norm. Hence when Muslims truly follow Islam they will be seen as strangers among mankind. Not only that when Muslims are split into different sects and misguided views then those who follow the way of the early Muslims are alsi seen as strangers.
Also the scholar ibn rajab wrote an entire book about this amazing hadeeth and it can be easily found in English.
 






recure

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Daze said:
Allah is God the father as they are one and the same. I've said this multiple times.

Billy is right. I say this for the benefit of Christians. I would never refer to the Creator as God the Father if i was surrounded by Muslims, I'd use Allah. but this doesn't change the fact they are not the same diety.
Allah is God the father.
It's a case of modern Islamic eisegesis of the Christian Scriptures no matter how many times the claim is restated. Thus far not a single shred of evidence has been presented from Islamic scholarship from the first thousand years, as I requested, only obfuscation of the claims made and circular reasoning. Imagine unironically saying "I was a Christian for 30 years" as if that somehow proves anything.

The name God the Father appears in the first verse of the first chapter of the first written New Testament document, St. Paul's epistle to the Galatians, right next to our Lord Jesus Christ. Nowhere does the Qur'an or Hadiths refer to Allah as the Father, but does often call him "your Lord", so it's amusing that Muslims have equated Allah with God the Father in these verses and not our Lord Jesus.

Furthermore, the names of God are eternal as I'm sure you would agree, so if Allah is called Merciful, it necessitates that he has always been merciful as it is part of his nature. As in Christianity, if God is called the Father, it reveals something about his nature and his relationship to the only-begotten Son and his nature. God did not become the Father, he was so from the 'beginning', which necessitates that he had a Son from the beginning. Christians also call the Son the Word of God and say he is uncreated but became incarnated in the man Jesus Christ. Ironically, Muslims say something similar: that the Word of Allah became incarnated in the form of the Qur'an, therefore the Qur'an is uncreated, but since only God is uncreated it follows that the Qur'an is Allah. Despite this, only Christians are accused of committing 'shirk'; just one of the many double-standards of Islam.

Another point, if we are to assume that God is only a father metaphorically because the believers are his sons: the Qur'an uses the term "sons of Allah" only once, when it accusing Jews and Christians of saying it (Sura 5:18). Therefore the Qur'an does not allow for the interpretation that Allah is the God the Father, either literally or metaphorically, so the assertion that you're just making it up according to your own fancy is vindicated by the evidence.

Daze said:
Now please continue derailing my thread because it's always been all about you.
It's ironic that you've accused me of derailing the thread after I brought into question something you said in response to another commenter who posted something unrelated to the thread. You didn't accuse him of de-railing but only me after you were exposed. You even created this thread to supposedly counteract all the "anti-Islam threads"; where are they? As of writing this, 8 of the top 11 threads in this sub are related to Islam, and only like two can be construed as anti-Islamic. The Muslims are keeping their threads alive in spite of all the other religious discussion that could take place, running other members off, and playing the victim when they're called out on it like you were in a recent thread (and this one). But yeah, it's 'always been all about me'.
 






billy t

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It's a case of modern Islamic eisegesis of the Christian Scriptures no matter how many times the claim is restated. Thus far not a single shred of evidence has been presented from Islamic scholarship from the first thousand years, as I requested, only obfuscation of the claims made and circular reasoning. Imagine unironically saying "I was a Christian for 30 years" as if that somehow proves anything.

The name God the Father appears in the first verse of the first chapter of the first written New Testament document, St. Paul's epistle to the Galatians, right next to our Lord Jesus Christ. Nowhere does the Qur'an or Hadiths refer to Allah as the Father, but does often call him "your Lord", so it's amusing that Muslims have equated Allah with God the Father in these verses and not our Lord Jesus.

Furthermore, the names of God are eternal as I'm sure you would agree, so if Allah is called Merciful, it necessitates that he has always been merciful as it is part of his nature. As in Christianity, if God is called the Father, it reveals something about his nature and his relationship to the only-begotten Son and his nature. God did not become the Father, he was so from the 'beginning', which necessitates that he had a Son from the beginning. Christians also call the Son the Word of God and say he is uncreated but became incarnated in the man Jesus Christ. Ironically, Muslims say something similar: that the Word of Allah became incarnated in the form of the Qur'an, therefore the Qur'an is uncreated, but since only God is uncreated it follows that the Qur'an is Allah. Despite this, only Christians are accused of committing 'shirk'; just one of the many double-standards of Islam.

Another point, if we are to assume that God is only a father metaphorically because the believers are his sons: the Qur'an uses the term "sons of Allah" only once, when it accusing Jews and Christians of saying it (Sura 5:18). Therefore the Qur'an does not allow for the interpretation that Allah is the God the Father, either literally or metaphorically, so the assertion that you're just making it up according to your own fancy is vindicated by the evidence.


It's ironic that you've accused me of derailing the thread after I brought into question something you said in response to another commenter who posted something unrelated to the thread. You didn't accuse him of de-railing but only me after you were exposed. You even created this thread to supposedly counteract all the "anti-Islam threads"; where are they? As of writing this, 8 of the top 11 threads in this sub are related to Islam, and only like two can be construed as anti-Islamic. The Muslims are keeping their threads alive in spite of all the other religious discussion that could take place, running other members off, and playing the victim when they're called out on it like you were in a recent thread (and this one). But yeah, it's 'always been all about me'.
Firstly this has nothing to do with Dazes thread. Everytime Muslims start threads here I notice Christians change the topic.

You are missing the whole point here bro. Even according to the original manuscripts where the Bible is translated from father is never understood to mean father in a biological sense.

You are arguing over semantics. Its like JW who insist on calling God Jehovah. The point is Christians and Muslims both agree that God alone created everything. What we differ on is whether He should be worshipped alone. When most Christians use the term father they mean the creator of the world and everything in it. God, Allah. Anyway, if you wanna' open up this topic then start a new thread. This has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
 






billy t

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It's a case of modern Islamic eisegesis of the Christian Scriptures no matter how many times the claim is restated. Thus far not a single shred of evidence has been presented from Islamic scholarship from the first thousand years, as I requested, only obfuscation of the claims made and circular reasoning. Imagine unironically saying "I was a Christian for 30 years" as if that somehow proves anything.

The name God the Father appears in the first verse of the first chapter of the first written New Testament document, St. Paul's epistle to the Galatians, right next to our Lord Jesus Christ. Nowhere does the Qur'an or Hadiths refer to Allah as the Father, but does often call him "your Lord", so it's amusing that Muslims have equated Allah with God the Father in these verses and not our Lord Jesus.

Furthermore, the names of God are eternal as I'm sure you would agree, so if Allah is called Merciful, it necessitates that he has always been merciful as it is part of his nature. As in Christianity, if God is called the Father, it reveals something about his nature and his relationship to the only-begotten Son and his nature. God did not become the Father, he was so from the 'beginning', which necessitates that he had a Son from the beginning. Christians also call the Son the Word of God and say he is uncreated but became incarnated in the man Jesus Christ. Ironically, Muslims say something similar: that the Word of Allah became incarnated in the form of the Qur'an, therefore the Qur'an is uncreated, but since only God is uncreated it follows that the Qur'an is Allah. Despite this, only Christians are accused of committing 'shirk'; just one of the many double-standards of Islam.

Another point, if we are to assume that God is only a father metaphorically because the believers are his sons: the Qur'an uses the term "sons of Allah" only once, when it accusing Jews and Christians of saying it (Sura 5:18). Therefore the Qur'an does not allow for the interpretation that Allah is the God the Father, either literally or metaphorically, so the assertion that you're just making it up according to your own fancy is vindicated by the evidence.


It's ironic that you've accused me of derailing the thread after I brought into question something you said in response to another commenter who posted something unrelated to the thread. You didn't accuse him of de-railing but only me after you were exposed. You even created this thread to supposedly counteract all the "anti-Islam threads"; where are they? As of writing this, 8 of the top 11 threads in this sub are related to Islam, and only like two can be construed as anti-Islamic. The Muslims are keeping their threads alive in spite of all the other religious discussion that could take place, running other members off, and playing the victim when they're called out on it like you were in a recent thread (and this one). But yeah, it's 'always been all about me'.
You say quote: "it's amusing that Muslims have equated Allah with God the Father in these verses and not our Lord Jesus". End of quote.

Response: It is amusing that Christians have equated Jesus with God the Father yet he is considered to be the son at the same time!

Do you agree that God knows all things, past and present, at all times? Yes or no?
 






billy t

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It's a case of modern Islamic eisegesis of the Christian Scriptures no matter how many times the claim is restated. Thus far not a single shred of evidence has been presented from Islamic scholarship from the first thousand years, as I requested, only obfuscation of the claims made and circular reasoning. Imagine unironically saying "I was a Christian for 30 years" as if that somehow proves anything.

The name God the Father appears in the first verse of the first chapter of the first written New Testament document, St. Paul's epistle to the Galatians, right next to our Lord Jesus Christ. Nowhere does the Qur'an or Hadiths refer to Allah as the Father, but does often call him "your Lord", so it's amusing that Muslims have equated Allah with God the Father in these verses and not our Lord Jesus.

Furthermore, the names of God are eternal as I'm sure you would agree, so if Allah is called Merciful, it necessitates that he has always been merciful as it is part of his nature. As in Christianity, if God is called the Father, it reveals something about his nature and his relationship to the only-begotten Son and his nature. God did not become the Father, he was so from the 'beginning', which necessitates that he had a Son from the beginning. Christians also call the Son the Word of God and say he is uncreated but became incarnated in the man Jesus Christ. Ironically, Muslims say something similar: that the Word of Allah became incarnated in the form of the Qur'an, therefore the Qur'an is uncreated, but since only God is uncreated it follows that the Qur'an is Allah. Despite this, only Christians are accused of committing 'shirk'; just one of the many double-standards of Islam.

Another point, if we are to assume that God is only a father metaphorically because the believers are his sons: the Qur'an uses the term "sons of Allah" only once, when it accusing Jews and Christians of saying it (Sura 5:18). Therefore the Qur'an does not allow for the interpretation that Allah is the God the Father, either literally or metaphorically, so the assertion that you're just making it up according to your own fancy is vindicated by the evidence.


It's ironic that you've accused me of derailing the thread after I brought into question something you said in response to another commenter who posted something unrelated to the thread. You didn't accuse him of de-railing but only me after you were exposed. You even created this thread to supposedly counteract all the "anti-Islam threads"; where are they? As of writing this, 8 of the top 11 threads in this sub are related to Islam, and only like two can be construed as anti-Islamic. The Muslims are keeping their threads alive in spite of all the other religious discussion that could take place, running other members off, and playing the victim when they're called out on it like you were in a recent thread (and this one). But yeah, it's 'always been all about me'.
If you carefully read the threads you will see that Christians here have been debunked time in again. Go look at the Paul thread and how many times Christians went on tangents and off topic. Nobody in that thread was able to defend Paul convincingly
 






recure

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When you refuse to provide the requested evidence that backs your claim, send in the clown patrol to... also not provide any evidence but start with the raving tangential strawmen and red herrings.
 






billy t

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When you refuse to provide the requested evidence that backs your claim, send in the clown patrol to... also not provide any evidence but start with the raving tangential strawmen and red herrings.
Mate, you can't see the forest for the trees. You have nitpicked a particular phrase and ran with it and then have completely ignored any clarifications on what was intended by the statement. I have mentioned more than once what is intended by Muslims using the word Father when discussing with Christians for the purpose of establishing a foundation about belief in a Creator. This has been addressed yet you ignore it. Allah says "do not be as those who say that they hear but they do not hear". Therefore, it appears you just want to take the thread off topic. From here on out I will ignore your messages as you are just typing a bunch of gobbledygook. I am yet to see evidence that you are capable of engaging in any sort of intellectual discussion on such issues. You speak of red herrings yet that is exactly what you are doing yourself.
 






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Fajr

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One of the reasons why it is important for the elites to always put a seed of atheism in people is because people with religion are very hard to manipulate. People who believe in God always have a reference to go back to and able to discern fake things from real. To Muslims, it is easy to tell the signs given to us about end of time and accordingly have knwoledge and insight about what is happening. To an atheist, everything is a coincidence. Covid (which is obviously a scam) is a coincidence for example so they are very easy to manipulate and make them go with the flow. Atheists show no resistance and are headhache free to the elites.
 






TokiEl

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There was no assumption that Jesus was of the same substance as the Father, begotten before the ages, at once human and divine, co-equal and co-eternal with the Father and Holy Spirit. These notions and their non-scriptural phraseology were later develoments established as orthodoxy at the ecumenical councils of Nicea (325), Constantinople (381) and Chalcedon (451).
That's not true.


John 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made....... 14The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Sonc from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Titus 2 11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to everyone. 12It instructs us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live sensible, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13as we await the blessed hope and glorious appearance of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. 14He gave Himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

John 17 5And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.





Here are 3 quick examples of Jesus being God in the Bible. So you either lie or you're an ignorant twat.

I think you're both... because these bible verses which plainly state that Jesus is God have been posted many times already.



You are composed of body soul and spirit... and so is God.

That's it... not so hard to understand right.

Unless you're an imbecile of course.


Are you an imbecile ?
 






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Daze

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@Daze Brother, I will move this discussion elsewhere so as not to derail the thread.
I was just looking at the reply number in this thread. 33 and I've only made 5 "sign" posts. Sad is what it is. I remember DesertRose making posts where she'd specifically ask others to stay on topic.

Its clear to me some people are threatened by Islam and must do whatever it takes to kill its narrative. I mean your proof is here, of course all will deny it but this thread has gone completely off track and absolutely it was intentional. Just look at that guy arguing over the Allah - Father semantics.

Muslims worship the same deity that Jesus worshiped.
"One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God." (Luke 6:12).

Period. It is not confusing or a "red herring" or whatever words they twist to create a narrative.

I don't mind you and Billy defending the deen but I'm really getting tired of this garbage.

Let them do what they will. There are a good 50 signs of the hour and I'm far from being done. All they do is push this topic back up top for others to see when I don't have the time to add on topic posts.

فِي سَبِيلِ ٱللَّٰهِ
 






Daze

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Thighs speak

The Messenger of Allah (saw) said:
“By the one in whose hand is my soul, the Hour will not be established until predators speak to humans, until the tip of a man’s whip and the strap of his sandal speaks, and his thigh informs him of what his family did after him.”

Sunan al-Tirmidhī 2181
This is indeed a strange hadith and it covers multiple signs.

Let's attempt to highlight them.

the strap of his sandal speaks
Have you heard of Nike?
nike.png

Nike makes shoes, clothing and accessories.

They have a particular shoe they call "Nike plus". It has sensors that allows it to collect data and connect to your cell phone relaying the info. Such as speed, distance covered, ect. I'll add a few links that go into detail.

Nike shoes get Google assistant


the strap of his sandal speaks
Is this not amazing? An illiterate man in the desert 1400 years ago predicted talking shoes.


Lets cover another part of the hadith above.
his thigh informs him of what his family did after him

I remember a popular tv show in the 80's-90's when i was a child. Perhaps you've heard of it. Saved by the Bell?
Basically it was about a group of high school kids dealing with day to day issues. One of the main characters had a "brick".

zacks phone.jpg
A cellphone that is. Compared to phones today that thing is huge.

I bring this up to highlight that cell phones are recent tech. While many can't live without one today they are hardly 3 decades old. Far as mankind goes, its "new tech".

The point of all this, "mans thigh telling him about his family back home", Islamic scholars have said this is the cellphone.
Stop and reflect on it. Most people, including me, keep their cell phones in their front pants pocket.



the Hour will not be established until predators speak to humans


Is this part of the hadith just around the corner? Maybe its already happened somewhere that I am not aware of?
But with tech and there experiments on animals these days.

musk monkey.jpg

Its not hard to see this becoming a reality into the not so distant future.
 






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TokiEl

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Its clear to me some people are threatened by Islam and must do whatever it takes to kill its narrative.
Islam was instigated by the devil... and since the beginning muslims have been conniving and killing in order to infect the whole world with the virus which is islam.



Muslims worship the same deity that Jesus worshiped.
"One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God." (Luke 6:12).
Absolutely not.
 






TokiEl

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Thighs speak



This is indeed a strange hadith and it covers multiple signs.

Let's attempt to highlight them.



Have you heard of Nike?
View attachment 53159

Nike makes shoes, clothing and accessories.

They have a particular shoe they call "Nike plus". It has sensors that allows it to collect data and connect to your cell phone relaying the info. Such as speed, distance covered, ect. I'll add a few links that go into detail.

Nike shoes get Google assistant



Is this not amazing? An illiterate man in the desert 1400 years ago predicted talking shoes.


Lets cover another part of the hadith above.



I remember a popular tv show in the 80's-90's when i was a child. Perhaps you've heard of it. Saved by the Bell?
Basically it was about a group of high school kids dealing with day to day issues. One of the main characters had a "brick".

View attachment 53160
A cellphone that is. Compared to phones today that thing is huge.

I bring this up to highlight that cell phones are recent tech. While many can't live without one today they are hardly 3 decades old. Far as mankind goes, its "new tech".

The point of all this, "mans thigh telling him about his family back home", Islamic scholars have said this is the cellphone.
Stop and reflect on it. Most people, including me, keep their cell phones in their front pants pocket.







Is this part of the hadith just around the corner? Maybe its already happened somewhere that I am not aware of?
But with tech and there experiments on animals these days.

View attachment 53161

Its not hard to see this becoming a reality into the not so distant future.
The devil is an angel who has been around for a long time... and he knows what technology can accomplish.

And since he is the god of the world in this age... he can predict and fulfill.

No big deal.
 






Daze

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No big deal.
If it wasn't a big deal then you and all the others wouldn't bother posting here. You wouldn't even open the thread to read it. Because the title is not ambiguous at all.

I know answering you will only open up a string of a dozen back and forths further derailing this thread, so this is where you make my ignore. By all means, you can have the last word.

Your presence in this thread alone proves me right. You are threatened by Islam, so you must speak against it.

Peace.
 






billy t

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The devil is an angel who has been around for a long time... and he knows what technology can accomplish.

And since he is the god of the world in this age... he can predict and fulfill.

No big deal.
Satan is not an angel, he is a demon. If you believe he is the God of this world then who sends down rain from the sky that benefits living beings? God or satan? You claim satan knows the future. Does he have complete knowledge of the future or is his knowledge limited? Now to everyone who is reading. Watch carefully and see whether tokei answers my questions or goes off topic on one of his anti-Islaam tangents. These are clear questions.
 






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