Signs of the hour / proofs of Islam

billy t

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Absolutely not.

He is an angel in the cherub class of heavenly beings.

You don't read God's own book the Bible ?



In God's own book the devil is called the god of this age.

Furthermore the devil is depicted as having authority over the kingdoms of the world.

God is watering the earth... but the devil got some power of the elements as well.

Today with technology the devil can water places too.



Limited.
The Prophet (alaiyhi salaatu wa salaam) said. “By the One in Whose hand is my soul, there no Jew or Christian who hears of me then dies without having believed in that with which I was sent with except he will be one of the people of the hellfire.”
 






Daze

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heed not.jpg


Wolves in sheep's clothing.

The Prophet (saw) said false preachers would come near the end of time.

wolf.jpg


Reminds one of "tunnel of demons" Kenneth Copeland, doesn't it?
copeland.jpg

Mr. Copeland made this claim when he was campaigning for donations for yet another personal multi-million dollar jet.
He said commercial flights were like getting into a tube full of demons. While a personal plane would allow him to serve his ministry in the best way possible.

I'll let you decide if a "man of God" needs a personal jet. Personally I'd be bothered by the millions going to bed hungry but hey, that's just me.


Another famous man with a tongue of sugar and the heart of a wolf is one Ravi Zacharias.

This is a well known man to Christians.
RV.jpg

Ravi recently passed on and soon after massive sex scandals began springing up from numerous outlets, eventually even Christian sources could no longer ignore it. Strangely enough, no one here made a thread about him even though this info was being broadcast from everywhere else.

There are alot of scandals involving Mr Zacharias. From him lying about his credentials.
L4J.png

To having an affair with a married woman. To sexually abusing woman who worked at massage parlors he owned.

I'm sure there are people here who will attack this while shoving their fingers in there ears. While i could care less what people choose to believe about Ravi, clearly there are people out there who refuse to accept reality.

Regardless this post is not about "attacking" Christian preachers. Its about showing the Prophet of Islam 14 centuries ago spoke the truth. Many preachers today are wolves in sheep's clothing.


To show this is not all about Christianity here is a well known "Mufti" in Islamic circles.

"Mufti" Abu Layth.
proxy-image.jpg
Yes, that's an actual picture. Taken during one of his talks where he said its ok for Muslims to attend Christmas parties.

This man deceived many Muslim youth. Practically everything he has ever said is the opposite of what Islam teaches. A real wolf in sheep's clothing.

If you think he is credible then take the time to watch this video.
It is wajib upon a Muslim to seek knowledge.




Clearly there are many more "wolves" i can cover but i think 3 is sufficient.


wolf2.jpg

The Prophet of Islam (saw) spoke the truth.
 






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billy t

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View attachment 53368


Wolves in sheep's clothing.

The Prophet (saw) said false preachers would come near the end of time.

View attachment 53369


Reminds one of "tunnel of demons" Kenneth Copeland, doesn't it?
View attachment 53370

Mr. Copeland made this claim when he was campaigning for donations for yet another personal multi-million dollar jet.
He said commercial flights were like getting into a tube full of demons. While a personal plane would allow him to serve his ministry in the best way possible.

I'll let you decide if a "man of God" needs a personal jet. Personally I'd be bothered by the millions going to bed hungry but hey, that's just me.


Another famous man with a tongue of sugar and the heart of a wolf is one Ravi Zacharias.

This is a well known man to Christians.
View attachment 53371

Ravi recently passed on and soon after massive sex scandals began springing up from numerous outlets, eventually even Christian sources could no longer ignore it. Strangely enough, no one here made a thread about him even though this info was being broadcast from everywhere else.

There are alot of scandals involving Mr Zacharias. From him lying about his credentials.
View attachment 53372

To having an affair with a married woman. To sexually abusing woman who worked at massage parlors he owned.

I'm sure there are people here who will attack this while shoving their fingers in there ears. While i could care less what people choose to believe about Ravi, clearly there are people out there who refuse to accept reality.

Regardless this post is not about "attacking" Christian preachers. Its about showing the Prophet of Islam 14 centuries ago spoke the truth. Many preachers today are wolves in sheep's clothing.


To show this is not all about Christianity here is a well known "Mufti" in Islamic circles.

"Mufti" Abu Layth.
View attachment 53373
Yes, that's an actual picture. Taken during one of his talks where he said its ok for Muslims to attend Christmas parties.

This man deceived many Muslim youth. Practically everything he has ever said is the opposite of what Islam teaches. A real wolf in sheep's clothing.

If you think he is credible then take the time to watch this video.
It is wajib upon a Muslim to seek knowledge.




Clearly there are many more "wolves" i can cover but i think 3 is sufficient.


View attachment 53375

The Prophet of Islam (saw) spoke the truth.
This mufti abu layth character is astray and leading others astray.
 






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Daze

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This mufti abu layth character is astray and leading others astray.
He has a following, I've argued with Muslims about him online before.

He is likely paid to make Islam look bad. From tattoo's to backbiting, he gets nearly everything wrong.
He's actually part of another sign I'll add at some point if God wills.
 






Daze

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"Are they waiting for the Hour to come upon them suddenly while they perceive not? " (43:66 Quran)


Life's value

The Prophet (saw) spoke of a time that would come when killing would be rampant.

Even the lives of loved ones would have little value.


Feb. 15, 2021

March 15, 2021

Jan. 7, 2021

Jan. 25, 2021

Sep. 6, 2020



kill family.png


When will you turn to your Creator and ask him for guidance? Your candle will not burn forever.
 






TokiEl

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The Qur'aan mentions that the angels never disobey Allah. Islaam does not have the concept of fallen angels.
The quran was authered by a fallen angel who would copy God by also building a temple in Jerusalem according to God's book the Bible.


What the Bible says is irrelevant because it contains the words of human beings who inserted their own opinions.
God's book the Bible contains the words of the prophets of God... while the quran was authored by a fallen angel aka the devil.


“Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur’aan and Prophet Muhammad) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikoon will abide in the fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures”
[al-Bayyinah 98:6]
2 Cor 4 3And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.

4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5For we do not proclaim ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. 6For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
 






TokiEl

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The Prophet (alaiyhi salaatu wa salaam) said. “By the One in Whose hand is my soul, there no Jew or Christian who hears of me then dies without having believed in that with which I was sent with except he will be one of the people of the hellfire.”
What the prophet of the devil said... i truly don't care.

I am TokiEl a priest of Christ.



Luke 19 27And these enemies of mine who were unwilling for me to rule over them, bring them here and slay them in front of me.’ ”

28After Jesus had said this, He went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem.
 






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TokiEl

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View attachment 53375

The Prophet of Islam (saw) spoke the truth.
Jesus Christ spoke the truth... so the prophet of islam is just a copycat.


Matthew 7 15Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20So then, by their fruit you will recognize them.
 






A Freeman

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I am TokiEl a priest of Christ.

Luke 19 27And these enemies of mine who were unwilling for me to rule over them, bring them here and slay them in front of me.’ ”
According to Christ there is no such thing as a priest, pastor, rabbi, imam, etc.

Matthew 23:8 BUT BE NOT YE CALLED PRIEST (rabbi, pastor, imam, etc.): for One is your Teacher, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren.

Matthew 12:30 He that is not WITH me is AGAINST me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Matthew 7:21-24
7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into The Kingdom of heaven; ONLY he that doeth the Will of my Father which is in heaven.
7:22 MANY will say to me in That Day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work inequity.
7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and DOETH THEM, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a Rock (the Truth):
 






Daze

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I can tell by the post count that the trolls are busy. So in an effort to keep this thread on topic here's a recap for those who are actually interested in the material.

Sign of tall buildings popping up in the desert.
The sign of women who are dressed but appear naked.
The disappearance of trust, the removal of honesty.
The slave gives birth to her master.
The dust of interest will touch everyone.

Mans thighs and shoes speak.
The deserts turn green.
False preachers
Life is devalued.


"Never will the Jews or Christians be pleased with you, until you follow their faith. Say, “Allah’s guidance is the only ˹true˺ guidance.”
(2:120 Quran)
 






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Messages
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View attachment 53368


Wolves in sheep's clothing.

The Prophet (saw) said false preachers would come near the end of time.

View attachment 53369


Reminds one of "tunnel of demons" Kenneth Copeland, doesn't it?
View attachment 53370

Mr. Copeland made this claim when he was campaigning for donations for yet another personal multi-million dollar jet.
He said commercial flights were like getting into a tube full of demons. While a personal plane would allow him to serve his ministry in the best way possible.

I'll let you decide if a "man of God" needs a personal jet. Personally I'd be bothered by the millions going to bed hungry but hey, that's just me.


Another famous man with a tongue of sugar and the heart of a wolf is one Ravi Zacharias.

This is a well known man to Christians.
View attachment 53371

Ravi recently passed on and soon after massive sex scandals began springing up from numerous outlets, eventually even Christian sources could no longer ignore it. Strangely enough, no one here made a thread about him even though this info was being broadcast from everywhere else.

There are alot of scandals involving Mr Zacharias. From him lying about his credentials.
View attachment 53372

To having an affair with a married woman. To sexually abusing woman who worked at massage parlors he owned.

I'm sure there are people here who will attack this while shoving their fingers in there ears. While i could care less what people choose to believe about Ravi, clearly there are people out there who refuse to accept reality.

Regardless this post is not about "attacking" Christian preachers. Its about showing the Prophet of Islam 14 centuries ago spoke the truth. Many preachers today are wolves in sheep's clothing.


To show this is not all about Christianity here is a well known "Mufti" in Islamic circles.

"Mufti" Abu Layth.
View attachment 53373
Yes, that's an actual picture. Taken during one of his talks where he said its ok for Muslims to attend Christmas parties.

This man deceived many Muslim youth. Practically everything he has ever said is the opposite of what Islam teaches. A real wolf in sheep's clothing.

If you think he is credible then take the time to watch this video.
It is wajib upon a Muslim to seek knowledge.




Clearly there are many more "wolves" i can cover but i think 3 is sufficient.


View attachment 53375

The Prophet of Islam (saw) spoke the truth.



the prophet said people will believe the liar and hate the one who's truthful.

Well, mufti abu layth gets dissed all over by regular youtube muslims. so clearly he doesn't fit your criteria here.
you might want to focus on the ones who are actually popular. abu layth has a following, but it's a small following.

here are examples of people who come across well (putting aside sectarianism here, i mean within their sects they are well regarded).

Sheikh Yaqoubi. This guy was a major fitna maker during the arab spring. He was over in the west (i think he lives in canada) constantly going to western media and talking about how evil assad is and encouraging the uprising.
He is a 'sufi sheikh' and a SYED to boot, he descends from the prophet. So you'd imagine HE would be the biggest proponent of the prophetic wisdom here.
He should have been telling everyone 'hear and obey your rulers..'
but no, he encouraged the fitna.
Well, then house saud sent in the wahabi al nusra (as in al qaeeda) and isis. then he's off telling all the dumb sufis
'the wahabis are doing this and that, the arab spring was no good'.

based off of that, i hated the guy. i could not stand this man. i hated every single thing about him. his so called love for the prophet SAW, i saw it as a mode of self worship (ie his lineage, himself, his ego, rather than love for the ideals and truth). i would watch his youtube videos/lectures and just hate him even more seeing through his charade.

So then i met a friend, a religious friend who is a very simple, humble guy. He invited me to come along with him on a charity mission. He told me the charity's patron was none other than Sheikh Yaqoubi.
bro, i was fucking fucking offended and i could not stop cursing right there. i told my friend to fuck off too.
see...all those lives destroyed, women/kids raped, murdered etc...dead babies, whatever man..all of it, every single bit of it, is on Yaqoubi's shoulders.
the man is a pig, a syed pig.
this bastard destroyed his country with his tongue. ive known syrian refugees who feel the same way towards him.

So...
my 'friend' was offended obviously, simple dumb guy, good guy, but derp as fuck. a typical every day beardbro.

so i was glad i was vindicated when this all came to light
he was looting the money from the same charity, money meant to feed the fucking destitute. when his own mureed (devotee) refused, he disowned the charity, but they exposed him.


another example, alot like the above
sheikh ninowy
another sufi sheikh, well known around the uk. see, with these 2 guys it's the noorani pious face lmfao and syed bloodline that makes a lot of the hijabi's wet. i mean these guys, they sure do know how to speak that pseudo islamic sexual patwa.
they deliberately use pro-feminist arguments in a context where muslims are lost between segular and religious obligations (wont go into details, because there are a lot of situations and contexts that get discussed in their lectures).

of course a lot of muslim females who adhere to sufism are inclined to become mureed of either of these 2 guys over any fat halwa pir. i get that side, because they want to learn real ilm from someone educated, but in truth a lot of females go beyond that and do legitimately crave the attention of these sheikhs. not that they're good looking (far from it) but it's the whole persona they give off as these spiritual overlords with heavy knowledge and spiritual connections (dont get me wrong, both are very very humble in person, which itself is part of the act).

ninowy was also later exposed for looting his mureeds.
we're talking hundreds of thousands. properties, taking women at will etc.

what is it the prophet said? "words are sweeter than sugar"?
WELL THAT ISNT MUFTI ABU LAYTH IS IT? lmao, mufti layth doesnt give a shit.

i used to find him dodgy until i realised, he has a point. the hikmah of the prophet was for his time and contexts.
the Quran told the muslims of that time, specifically, directly..to follow the sunnah of the prophet.
yet muslims today read the quran and think it addresses them directly. it doesnt. it wasnt revealed to us. it was revealised to those people in 7th century mecca/madina.
contexts and common sense go out the window with most muslims.

the Quran talks about Scripture and Hikmah, more than it does 'sunnah'.
hikmah depends on the times..and if you read the Bible you'll find many prophets with their own hikmah for their own times and contexts. Most of it was just common sense though. it wasnt some magical newly revealed rule.

eg David and Solomon were about war and conquest. yet Daniel, Jeremiah, Zechariah right the way to Jesus were about that passive approach and seeking forgiveness.
Jesus completely negated the law of Moses because of contexts.

As for abu layth,
are christmas parties haram?
show me where they're haram lol.

mixing of genders, alcohol..christmas being a christian festival etc. i get all that.
however, fundamentally christmas parties are not declared haram according to the Quran and sunnah.

if you went by that logic, we live in christian/athiest countries where alcohol is drunk everywhere and genders mix everywhere...
so i guess immigration is haram right?
 






Daze

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the prophet said people will believe the liar and hate the one who's truthful.
This was addressed in the removal of trust / honesty post i think? I will need to re-read it.


what is it the prophet said? "words are sweeter than sugar"?
WELL THAT ISNT MUFTI ABU LAYTH IS IT? lmao, mufti layth doesnt give a.
That post was basically about false preachers. Nearly every teaching about Islam I've learned, Abu Layth preached the opposite.
Watch the video in that post, one after another, back to back. Clearly the guy isn't educated or he is giving out false info on purpose to fulfill some agenda. I believe its the latter because even the basics of the basics he got wrong.

For this reason he was the first one to mind. As Ive said, I've argued with Muslims about him before. I don't know how large his audience is/was, only that he has/had one. But for me he was an obvious choice for that hadith.

To be honest I'm not highly acquainted with the sheikh's you mention, I try not to question others because only God can see the heart. but there are many Islamic speakers who are questionable at best.

Take Omar Suleiman, he has performed non-Islamic rituals on camera before. I had a problem with Hamza Yusef for a long time because he has said multiple times Islam does not need a caliph, which is clear error. Muslims suffer greatly today because we are not united. Yasir Qhadi is another, he has gone on camera saying we need to reform Islam when the Quran says "Today I have perfected your religion for you". We don't need reform, we need to return to Allah's book and his rasul's sunnah.

Allah (awj) knows best what the intention is of these people because I've also seen alot of good from all of them. But Abu Layth, I've seen nothing but falsehood from him.


yet muslims today read the quran and think it addresses them directly. it doesnt. it wasnt revealed to us. it was revealed to those people in 7th century mecca/madina.
I don't agree with this akhi, the Quran was sent for mankind. There have been times when I've had questions or thoughts and randomly opened the book to find my answer, like it was speaking directly to me in that particular situation. Its impossible to explain and nothing short of amazing when you think about it. The Quran can and will speak to anyone, if the Almighty wills it.



As for abu layth,
are christmas parties haram?
show me where they're haram lol.
Well, we know it has pagan roots, ones so obvious even Christians discuss it openly. Are we supposed to take part in rituals of other faiths?

It's actually a prophecy, when Muslims follow polytheists.
Screenshot_2021-03-23 Sahih Muslim 2669a - The Book of Knowledge - كتاب العلم - Sunnah com - S...png

Idk if you've read posts where I've mentioned I'm an electrician? My job allows me to enter random homes to solve whatever issue people tend to have. I've seen Christmas tree's in Muslim homes akhi. Do you think the Prophet (saw) would approve of this? Forget its pagan roots. Its a day that celebrates the "birth of Gods son".

Have you read this verse in Surah Maryam?
"And they say, "The Most Merciful has taken [for Himself] a son." (88) You have done an atrocious thing. (89) The heavens almost rupture therefrom and the earth splits open and the mountains collapse in devastation (90) That they attribute to the Most Merciful a son."

The people who do this are returning to an angry Lord on Judgement day but they can't see it. May the Creator not make us amongst them.





we live in christian/athiest countries where alcohol is drunk everywhere and genders mix everywhere...
so i guess immigration is haram right?
Sadly these are both signs of the hour. I live in a city with about 200,000 Muslims. There's more then one gas station here owned by a Muslim that sells alcohol.


May the only One worthy of worship lead us to the truth. We ask him to separate the truth from the falsehood for us and make them clear. Without His help we are eternally lost.

As-salaam alaykum.
 






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the Quran told the muslims of that time, specifically, directly..to follow the sunnah of the prophet.
yet muslims today read the quran and think it addresses them directly. it doesnt. it wasnt revealed to us. it was revealised to those people in 7th century mecca/madina.
contexts and common sense go out the window with most muslims.
Do you understand the implications of what you are saying? You are saying that the message of each Prophet or Messenger was meant for their time alone, and that with their death, their authority died with them, as did the obligations made incumbent on them in the books revealed to them. This is falsehood and misguidance in the extreme. Did Allah leave the rest of the people to dwell in ignorance and misguidance until the end of time?

Indeed, there is a message in this [Qur’an] for devoted worshipers. We have not sent you [O Prophet] except as a mercy to the worlds. - 21:106-7

O mankind, worship your Lord, Who created you and those before you, so that you may become righteous; - 2:21

You are the best nation ever raised for mankind: you enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong, and believe in Allah. If the People of the Book had believed, it would have been better for them. Some of them are believers, but most of them are rebellious. - 3:110

And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me. - 51:56

Ramadān is a month in which the Qur’an was sent down as a guidance for mankind and as clear signs that show the right way and distinguish between right and wrong... - 2:185

Are you worshiping Allah, or are you worshiping your desires? You are relegating the words of Allah to a book that is bound by its time and place, when it was sent as guidance for all of mankind, for all places and times. Without the Quran what would you be? Worshiping stones and idols, in the darkness of shirk, heedless of your purpose and destination.

You also seem to hold an animosity towards practicing Muslims. We are not ashamed to follow the truth from our Lord and the Sunnah of Muhammad ﷺ. We are proud to be from his Ummah; he who cried for our forgiveness, though he had never met us.

It is He Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, so that He may make it prevail over all religions, even though the polytheists may dislike it. - 61:9

So believe or disbelieve, follow or turn back. You will answer to Allah on the Day of Judgement. What will you say when you stand in front of Him? "I disregarded Your words because it was more covenient for me to do whatever I wished?" Consider the implications of what you are saying, and return to what is right, whether you like it or you dislike it.

... perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not. - 2:216

In the farewell khutba, the Prophet ﷺ said:

"Remember, one day you will appear before God and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone. O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me, and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O people, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and my example, the Sunnah, and if you follow these you will never go astray. All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and it may be that the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O God, that I have conveyed your message to your people."

Shortly after this, the verse was revealed:

This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My Grace upon you, and have chosen Islam for you as your religion. - 5:3
 






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@pescatarian09
You have no clue what i'm even trying to say, just giving me the textbook trained islamic response.


1) you have the Quran...and then you have Hadith.
The Hadith are historical sources of information giving us clues on the sunnah of the prophet. It goes without saying the hadith are not infallible.
In fact if you read the Quran, no where does it specifically confirm the authenticity/validity of hadith..
yet many times over, did the Quran specifically CONFIRM and validate the Torah and Gospel.
Now this is venturing into another topic, so I won't get into this too much, it goes like this

muslim trained response after muslims have collectively been reading books printed out of riyadh
"the bible is altered, the Quran says so"
Re: the Quran doesn't say that at all, what it alludes to is that the people of the book used to misinterpret the book and present it to muslims. The hadith do present some insight on this directly. In the only example where the prophet SAW became angry towards the 'torah' it was this context

Narrated Abu Huraira: The people of the Scripture (Jews) used to recite the torah in Hebrew and they used to explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. On that Allah's Apostle said, "Do not believe the people of the Scripture or disbelieve them, but say:-- "We believe in Allah and what is revealed to us." (2.136) (Book #60, Hadith #12)

hence the Quran contains verses like this

But those among them who did wrong changed the word that had been told to them. So We sent on them a torment from the heaven in return for their wrong-doings.
(سورة الأعراف, Al-A'raaf, Chapter #7, Verse #162)

this doesnt mean they changed the core text, it means they changed the interpretations/translations.

I don't believe in contradictions..either the Torah and Gospel are altered and corrupt, or they are wholly trustworthy...
and yet the Quran says this various times

And believe in what I have sent down (this Qur'an), confirming that which is with you, [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (gospel)], and be not the first to disbelieve therein, and buy [get (تاخذ اجرا)] not with My Verses [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (gospel)] a small price (i.e. getting a small gain by selling My Verses), and fear Me and Me Alone.
(سورة البقرة, Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #41)


the grand irony is that the muslim translators and interpretors are guilty of 'altering the word' in the same manner, many times, since they tend to [insert their own meaning like this], mohsin khan is a notorious example.

Now think about this..
the Quran directly confirmed the Torah and the Gospel, yet you as a muslim chose to follow hadith above them, despite no divine confirmation?

For me the hadith are historical sources of information that do matter and i value them. I don't discard them, but im all about absorbing everything i can to understand it all better.
when any apparent contradiction appears, i put that down to my own ignorance and don't just discard the book.

The point here is, you and most muslims have committed grave errors on this matter for a long time and you don't seem to have any issue with that part.

2)
This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My Grace upon you, and have chosen Islam for you as your religion. - 5:3

Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

this has nothing to do with Sunnah. Matters of Halal and Haram are not matters of sunnah, they're matter of Fard as per the Quranic order.
so it was all completed right? so how did the 4 imams come about,t he hadith?


that my friend, pertains to the hikmah of various people...
and that is my point. Hikmah is subject to chance depending on the circumstances.
the Fard isn't up for debate. I'm talking about the traditions/rulings that have no place today for many muslims.

For example, STONING is in the hadith, yet it isn't in the Quran.
what do you think? to stone or not to stone? what's your hikmah saying because the hadith suggest that the prophet SAW himself practiced it, yet even within the hadith it's suggested that the prophet tried to avoid it if possible.
stoning ironically is not even from the Torah, the Torah says 'put to death' not 'stone', However the same jewish interpretations written by rabbis were hell bent on stoning and yet they couldnt even practice the rabbinic traditions correctly.


3)
examples of hikmah in the time of the prophet compared to today

-a man was to provide a wife with a home. She was entitled to her own space/home. the wife's role was to tend to the home and children (if any). in fact she wasnt obligated to even cook food for her husband if she didnt want to. she especially wasnt obligated to take her of her in-laws.
-daughters were not given away to another family, as pakistani muslims and others practice...so in that time a man could likewise daughter-in-laws were not replacements for daughters.

basically back then, a man could build a house from straw/mud for his wife..and a few yards away have one for his parents. not much of a cost to him right?
back then they had slaves too...so yeh i mean im sure many muslim men also had slaves taking care of their elderly parents. great.
if a man had sisters around, they would also be obligated to take care of their parents, it was a joint effort.

contexts today differ


-how much does a house cost today? can an ave guy have a house for his wife and his mother close by, whilst tending to his obligations to both?
-females in the family, many of them tend to get married and quickly move along, shirking their obligations to their mother (esp in a cultural context) and saying 'im part of a different family now' and simultaneosely they'll also discard any care towards their in-laws under the argument that 'this isnt part of islam'
right or wrong, it presents a heavy burden for a guy, right?
now women have to take careof the HOUSE? washing machines, dish washers, vacuum cleaners. big task that man. so it's much easier for females, but life is a lot more difficult for a guy trying to meet his obligations.
something goes wrong with the house, who's dealing with it? plumbing? building, masonry work, roofing? it's a man's headache.
something goes wrong with the car, man's job.
again it's much more difficult for a man.
yet a man isnt rewarded with concubines and second wives he can force on his ignorant wife..
no, he has to fear secular law where if he divorces it's 50% to his wife minimum...whilst she enjoyed the outdated rules of islam that have no place no context anymore.

-oh yeh, special hikmah 101
if a wife refuses her husband, she is cursed..
today if a man forces himself on his wife using the hadith as his excuse, it's r*pe..(as it should be)
so for all a mans obligations, he aint getting any either...

sorry mate, its needs an update..and none of the above is based on the Quran anyway.
this is where common sense, ie 'wisdom' comes into play.
Abu layth, for all his ills, has spoken of these matters.
he's also highlighted the fact that sex is not evil...and yet it's treated as such whilst marraige is delayed for many people, meaning they go through their entire teens and even 20s, unmarried..
where is all that energy meant to go brah?

you can create some random shit excuse and say 'well...people need to let go of bad cultural practices'
great...but it doesnt discount the fact that said cultural practices do exist and came into play within an islamic framework, meaning the muslim consensus/ulema actively encouraged it..
at what point did it become the norm to marry first cousins and keep women from an education?

what about birth control? 10 kids a house?
"but but Allah said he will feed them"
"Allah provides the rizq"
"the prophet said don't use condoms, the prophet said have a lot of kids"

yeh, in a time when the worlds population was low and muslims were few in number and struggling from war and disease, he encouraged people to have larger families..that was his hikmah for his time
how about now? 5000 billion people in pakistan and bangladesh, wen condoms bro?
they cant stop popping out kids they cant fucking feed and yet 'Allah is giving them rizq' (no they beg for it).
in fact when anyone dares to mention birth control, the masses get angry.

hikmah is meant to actively deal with the contexts as they appear, find a solution
but all you guys do is ask 'wut does da hadeef say doe'
idiots.
 






Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
3,154
you'll have to overlook my bad language, it's necessary, otherwise id go crazy presenting all the shit that comes from muslims.
 






Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
3,154
"And Allah will teach him the Book and wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
(سورة آل عمران, Aal-i-Imraan, Chapter #3, Verse #48)

the wisdom is understanding the book according to contexts.


and yet

We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.
(سورة يوسف, Yusuf, Chapter #12, Verse #2)


interesting because, when you do read the Quran and dyor, you have to read the bible too, otherwise many versesin the Quran cannot be understood in detail.
yet to read the bible itself is to clearly absorb various contexts and the prophetic wisdom applicable in each time.
some prophets differed entirely from others
yet they all followed the Torah!!
 






Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
3,154
@Daze

ive watched/listened to mufti abu layth
i disagree withsome of his views and think on some things he is clueless...
he is a troll, but i think he is mad too..as in he's been around the bend after studying islam and witnessing the utter shit coming from the ulema. at sme point he's blown a head gasket hasnt he? i enjoy his videos though and i understand that his opinions have a place in islam.

the hadith 'prophecy' you quoted, doesnt say if it's good/bad, a natural consequence of contexts etc.
it doesnt discount the fact that we live in the judeo-christian world in a post-colonial globalised world culture...
so take it as a prophecy, not as a diss.

sure, christmas has pagan origins, but the commemoration of the birth of Isa AS is from the Quran so in essence the idea of celebrating the birth of Isa AS is not haram or even meant to be disliked.
however attending a christmas party is not inherently haram, it's disliked for obvious reasons...however it is still halal. in a secular context a christmas party is just usually a work/school party to celebrate the holiday period. no one really thinks about Jesus do they?

i used to attend the christmas 'parties' but i dont recall carrying a cross to any of them.
keep in mind here, that divinely prescribed obligations eg salat, have to be obeyed and that means your schedule, environment etc has to encourage those obligations
however in essence it isnt haram, that doesnt even need a special beardbro sheikh to answer, it makes obv sense.

something else for you to think about here...

mental health...it matters
if you have kids..and you chose to live in a non-muslim environment...and your kid wants to socialise, don't be a complete hardcase because otherwise you'll end up with other problems.
don't be extreme. trust me, the younger generation, they're more inclined towards suicide at the drop of a hat
 






Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
1,513
@pescatarian09
You have no clue what i'm even trying to say, just giving me the textbook trained islamic response.


1) you have the Quran...and then you have Hadith.
The Hadith are historical sources of information giving us clues on the sunnah of the prophet. It goes without saying the hadith are not infallible.
In fact if you read the Quran, no where does it specifically confirm the authenticity/validity of hadith..
yet many times over, did the Quran specifically CONFIRM and validate the Torah and Gospel.
Now this is venturing into another topic, so I won't get into this too much, it goes like this

muslim trained response after muslims have collectively been reading books printed out of riyadh
"the bible is altered, the Quran says so"
Re: the Quran doesn't say that at all, what it alludes to is that the people of the book used to misinterpret the book and present it to muslims. The hadith do present some insight on this directly. In the only example where the prophet SAW became angry towards the 'torah' it was this context

Narrated Abu Huraira: The people of the Scripture (Jews) used to recite the torah in Hebrew and they used to explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. On that Allah's Apostle said, "Do not believe the people of the Scripture or disbelieve them, but say:-- "We believe in Allah and what is revealed to us." (2.136) (Book #60, Hadith #12)

hence the Quran contains verses like this

But those among them who did wrong changed the word that had been told to them. So We sent on them a torment from the heaven in return for their wrong-doings.
(سورة الأعراف, Al-A'raaf, Chapter #7, Verse #162)

this doesnt mean they changed the core text, it means they changed the interpretations/translations.

I don't believe in contradictions..either the Torah and Gospel are altered and corrupt, or they are wholly trustworthy...
and yet the Quran says this various times

And believe in what I have sent down (this Qur'an), confirming that which is with you, [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (gospel)], and be not the first to disbelieve therein, and buy [get (تاخذ اجرا)] not with My Verses [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (gospel)] a small price (i.e. getting a small gain by selling My Verses), and fear Me and Me Alone.
(سورة البقرة, Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #41)


the grand irony is that the muslim translators and interpretors are guilty of 'altering the word' in the same manner, many times, since they tend to [insert their own meaning like this], mohsin khan is a notorious example.

Now think about this..
the Quran directly confirmed the Torah and the Gospel, yet you as a muslim chose to follow hadith above them, despite no divine confirmation?

For me the hadith are historical sources of information that do matter and i value them. I don't discard them, but im all about absorbing everything i can to understand it all better.
when any apparent contradiction appears, i put that down to my own ignorance and don't just discard the book.

The point here is, you and most muslims have committed grave errors on this matter for a long time and you don't seem to have any issue with that part.

2)
This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My Grace upon you, and have chosen Islam for you as your religion. - 5:3

Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

this has nothing to do with Sunnah. Matters of Halal and Haram are not matters of sunnah, they're matter of Fard as per the Quranic order.
so it was all completed right? so how did the 4 imams come about,t he hadith?


that my friend, pertains to the hikmah of various people...
and that is my point. Hikmah is subject to chance depending on the circumstances.
the Fard isn't up for debate. I'm talking about the traditions/rulings that have no place today for many muslims.

For example, STONING is in the hadith, yet it isn't in the Quran.
what do you think? to stone or not to stone? what's your hikmah saying because the hadith suggest that the prophet SAW himself practiced it, yet even within the hadith it's suggested that the prophet tried to avoid it if possible.
stoning ironically is not even from the Torah, the Torah says 'put to death' not 'stone', However the same jewish interpretations written by rabbis were hell bent on stoning and yet they couldnt even practice the rabbinic traditions correctly.


3)
examples of hikmah in the time of the prophet compared to today

-a man was to provide a wife with a home. She was entitled to her own space/home. the wife's role was to tend to the home and children (if any). in fact she wasnt obligated to even cook food for her husband if she didnt want to. she especially wasnt obligated to take her of her in-laws.
-daughters were not given away to another family, as pakistani muslims and others practice...so in that time a man could likewise daughter-in-laws were not replacements for daughters.

basically back then, a man could build a house from straw/mud for his wife..and a few yards away have one for his parents. not much of a cost to him right?
back then they had slaves too...so yeh i mean im sure many muslim men also had slaves taking care of their elderly parents. great.
if a man had sisters around, they would also be obligated to take care of their parents, it was a joint effort.

contexts today differ


-how much does a house cost today? can an ave guy have a house for his wife and his mother close by, whilst tending to his obligations to both?
-females in the family, many of them tend to get married and quickly move along, shirking their obligations to their mother (esp in a cultural context) and saying 'im part of a different family now' and simultaneosely they'll also discard any care towards their in-laws under the argument that 'this isnt part of islam'
right or wrong, it presents a heavy burden for a guy, right?
now women have to take careof the HOUSE? washing machines, dish washers, vacuum cleaners. big task that man. so it's much easier for females, but life is a lot more difficult for a guy trying to meet his obligations.
something goes wrong with the house, who's dealing with it? plumbing? building, masonry work, roofing? it's a man's headache.
something goes wrong with the car, man's job.
again it's much more difficult for a man.
yet a man isnt rewarded with concubines and second wives he can force on his ignorant wife..
no, he has to fear secular law where if he divorces it's 50% to his wife minimum...whilst she enjoyed the outdated rules of islam that have no place no context anymore.

-oh yeh, special hikmah 101
if a wife refuses her husband, she is cursed..
today if a man forces himself on his wife using the hadith as his excuse, it's r*pe..(as it should be)
so for all a mans obligations, he aint getting any either...

sorry mate, its needs an update..and none of the above is based on the Quran anyway.
this is where common sense, ie 'wisdom' comes into play.
Abu layth, for all his ills, has spoken of these matters.
he's also highlighted the fact that sex is not evil...and yet it's treated as such whilst marraige is delayed for many people, meaning they go through their entire teens and even 20s, unmarried..
where is all that energy meant to go brah?

you can create some random shit excuse and say 'well...people need to let go of bad cultural practices'
great...but it doesnt discount the fact that said cultural practices do exist and came into play within an islamic framework, meaning the muslim consensus/ulema actively encouraged it..
at what point did it become the norm to marry first cousins and keep women from an education?

what about birth control? 10 kids a house?
"but but Allah said he will feed them"
"Allah provides the rizq"
"the prophet said don't use condoms, the prophet said have a lot of kids"

yeh, in a time when the worlds population was low and muslims were few in number and struggling from war and disease, he encouraged people to have larger families..that was his hikmah for his time
how about now? 5000 billion people in pakistan and bangladesh, wen condoms bro?
they cant stop popping out kids they cant fucking feed and yet 'Allah is giving them rizq' (no they beg for it).
in fact when anyone dares to mention birth control, the masses get angry.

hikmah is meant to actively deal with the contexts as they appear, find a solution
but all you guys do is ask 'wut does da hadeef say doe'
idiots.
1. We did not send any Messenger but to be obeyed by Allah’s permission. If only they had come to you [O Prophet] – after wronging themselves – and had asked Allah for forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked for forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of Repentance, Most Merciful. - 4:64

2. Do they not know that whoever opposes Allah and His Messenger will dwell in the Fire of Hell forever? That is the ultimate disgrace. - 9:63

3. They [the hypocrites] say, “We believe in Allah and in the Messenger, and we obey.” Then a party of them turns away after that. Such are not believers. When they are called to Allah and His Messenger so that he may judge between them, a party of them turns away. But if the right is in their favor, they come to him in full submission. Is there sickness in their hearts, or do they have doubt, or do they fear that Allah and His messenger will be unjust to them? Rather, it is they who are the wrongdoers. As for the believers, when they are called to Allah and His Messenger so that he may judge between them, they say, “We listen and obey.” It is they who are the successful. Whoever obeys Allah and His Messenger, and fears Allah and is conscious of Him – it is they who are the triumphant. - 24:47-52

1. The Prophet said ﷺ: "Whoever turns away from my Sunnah is not of me." [Sunan an Nasai 3217]; "Whoever revives my Sunnah then he has loved me. And whoever loved me, he shall be with me in paradise." [Tirmidhi 2678]

2. The Prophet said ﷺ: "When I forbid you to do something, avoid it. When I command you to do something, then do it as much as you are able." [Bukhari 7288]

3. The Prophet ﷺ said: "All of my community will enter the Garden except for those who refuse to." They asked, "O Messenger of Allah, who will refuse?" He replied, "Whoever obeys me will enter the Garden. Whoever rebels against me has refused." [Bukhari 7280]

4. The Prophet ﷺ said: "The Banu Isra'il split into about seventy-two sects. My community will split into seventy-three. All of them will be in the Fire except for one." They asked, "Who are they, Messenger of Allah?" He replied, "Those who base themselves on what I and my Companions are doing today." [Tirmidhi 2641]

5. The Prophet ﷺ said: "You must adhere to my Sunnah and the way of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs who come after me. Adhere to it and cling to it strongly, and beware of newly-invented matters, for every newly-invented matter is an innovation (bid’ah) and every innovation is a going astray." [Abu Dawood 4607]

6. The Prophet (ﷺ) said: Let me not find one of you reclining on his couch when he hears something regarding me which I have commanded or forbidden and saying: We do not know. What we found in Allah's Book we have followed. (Abu Dawood 4605)

The hadd punishments of stoning and/or lashing for adultery and fornication exist for a reason. Everything that the Prophet ﷺ enjoined on his Ummah was done for a reason. You may not understand the reasoning, you may dislike the injunction, you may think it too regressive for the "modern age," but that is simply your opinion, your own desire that bears no authority. "It is not for a believing man or woman – when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter – to have any other choice in their matter. Whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has clearly gone astray." (33:36) Such punishments are commanded by Allah and His Messenger, and needed because they prevent promiscuity and sexual immorality. Societies today are morally bereft and bankrupt because of their failure to uphold proper punishments for evil actions. If you do not support the appropriate punishments, you cannot complain when they became prevalent in society.

Recall the meaning of Islam. It is to submit. Submit to Allah's will despite what you desire, despite what you prefer, despite what would be most convenient. The advantage in the practice of a certain Sunnah may not be apparent, but Allah's plan is greater and He knows best; "And [remember] when your Lord said to the angels, 'I am going to appoint a vicegerent on earth.' They said, 'Will You appoint on it someone who will spread corruption therein and shed blood, while we glorify You with Your praises and proclaim Your holiness?' He said, 'I know that which you do not know.' " (2:30); "But no, by your Lord, they will not believe until they accept you [O Prophet] as judge in their disputes, and find no discomfort within their hearts about your judgments, but accept them wholeheartedly." (4:64)

Will you uphold only that which gives you a worldly favour, and abandon that which would cause you to be seen as strange or detestable according to the standards of the people? The Messenger of Allah said: “Islam began as something strange and will revert to being strange as it began, so give glad tidings to the strangers." (Muslim 145) The standards of the people will change: one day they will be your friend, and on the next they will be your enemy; but the standards of Allah will remain unchanged forever.

It is apparent that you trust the authority of the Torah and Bible more than the Sunnah of your own Prophet ﷺ. You would trust them even though the Prophet ﷺ has said, “By the one in whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, none from this nation of Jews and Christians hears of me, and then dies without having faith in my message, but that he will be an inhabitant of Hellfire." [Muslim 153] Allah says: Never will the Jews and the Christians be satisfied with you, until you follow their way. (2:120); So woe to those who write the Scripture with their own hands, and then say, “This is from Allah,” in order to trade it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for what they earn. (2:79); Anyone who seeks a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted from him; and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers. (3:85)

On the Sunnah: Could it be that Allah has commanded that we obey the Messenger ﷺ, but made this obedience impracticable, or made the study of the Prophet's actions and words fraught with ambiguities and fabrications? Allah did not give us a task that was beyond our ability and means. Allah did not bind us with something that does not exist or that cannot be ascertained. If it has been made an obligation on us to follow the pattern of conduct of Rasulullah ﷺ, then it has surely been preserved for us. It is imposible that the necessity of following the Prophet ﷺ would be established on the one hand, and that its discovery, and the distinguishing between what is true and what is false, would be made impossible on the other.

If you do not trust the legitimacy of the Sunnah, study it. Study the sciences of hadeeth: ilm ar-rijaal (the biographical scrutiny of narrators); the scrutiny of the integrity/constancy of a chain of narration; the scrutiny of hadith in the light of the Seerah and historical events; the criteria that a hadith must meet for a sahih (authentic)/hasan (good)/daif (weak)/maudu (forged) classification. The scholars did not neglect the science of authenticating hadith. Weak hadith are easily distinguished from authentic and sound hadith. Hadith that do not meet the strict criteria are not used in legislation. An example of the rigour of the scholars in authenticating hadith: Ibn Rajab wrote Tahzeeb at-Tahzeeb, a twelve volume book that compiles the biographies of all the narrators found in any chain of narration in the six books of hadith. It contains the life accounts of 12,455 narrators, arranged in alphabetical order. In it you can find, for any narrator, the dates of their birth and death, a list of his teachers and pupils, important events of his life, and the opinions of the scholars on his credibility. Other scholars have also listed narrators who are unreliable or from whom narrations are not to be taken, on account of defects in memory, dishonesty, bad character, etc.

On your last point: You cannot say that women in Bangladesh and Pakistan having many children that they cannot feed is evidence that the Sunnah is deficient. Putting aside the fact that temporary contraception is permitted under specific circumstances in Islam, your argument is a non-sequitur. There are a multitude of reasons why the situation you describe may be the case, and predominantly they are demographic and social in nature; countries that are less industrialised and more highly dependent on farming exhibit higher birth and death rates, while the most industrialised countries exhibit low birth and death rates. Pakistan and Bangladesh actually have lower rates of child poverty than India, so the matter is also a question of infrastructure and government competence. Industrialised countries displaying high adherence to Islam are evidence that it is a social matter, not a religious one. Regardless, in whatever Muslim country, rich or poor, Islam will only improve their condition if they increase in adherence to it. You also brought up the issue of a man forcing his wife. For that, see this concise and eloquent response.
 






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