Faith w/ Out Works: Do Works Save?

Tidal

Star
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
3,803
Topic title- Faith w/ Out Works: Do Works Save?

Depends what's meant by "works"..:)
Jesus said - "The work God requires is to believe in the one he has sent" (John 6:28 )

Therefore even if somebody is a hard worker in the material sense, it counts for absolutely nothing if he/she's failed to connect with Jesus.
 

Tidal

Star
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
3,803
Faith without works negates the point of life, doesn't it? Whats the purpose of life, if its not to serve the one who sent us here?
Monks and nuns shut themselves away from the world in monasteries and convents so that they can work at getting closer to God without any distractions.
We don't all have to do that of course, as long as we don't neglect the work of connecting with Jesus.
Sundays (the sabbath) is one of the 10 Commandments which shows how important God thinks it is for us to have a day off from work to chill and relax and tend to our spiritual development..:)
 

A Freeman

Superstar
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
8,376
@Lyfe:

There isn't one single verse you posted that instructs anyone not to keep The Law (sin), which contains God's COMMANDments to mankind. The only thing that blinds you to this simple and immutable FACT is your own arrogance/ignorance, which is your real enemy here.

You are advocating disobedience to God. Period. There couldn't be anything more satanic or anti-Christ.

CHRIST IS THE LAW MADE FLESH. He is the embodiment of The Law, which is why The Law is our schoolmaster, to bring us to Christ (Gal. 3:24). IF YOU DON'T KEEP THE LAW YOU CAN NEVER COME TO KNOW CHRIST.

1 John 2:3-4
2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, IF we keep His Commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth NOT His Commandments, is a LIAR, and the truth is NOT in him.

What did CHRIST say? Christ said heaven and earth would pass away before The Law did, and that anyone who teaches otherwise is the lowest of the low in God's Eyes (Matt. 5:17-19). And what did Christ say about bondage?

King of kings' Bible John 8:25 (John 8:34 KJV) Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the prisoner of sin.

The wages of sin (sin is breaking The Law) are DEATH (Ezek. 18:4, 20, Rom. 6:23). So why do you promote slavery, sin and death to others?

John 5:42-47
5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that [cometh] from God only?
5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is [one] that accuseth you, [even] Moses, in whom ye trust.
5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
 

Tidal

Star
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
3,803
..its Gods will for his people to be gathered together within the context of an orderly structure.
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together...
Yes if it's a good church with good people in it by all means go, but sadly not all churches are like that so it's best to stay well clear of them..:)
"He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm" (Provs 13:20)

Anyway-
"God, who made the world and everything in it..does not dwell in temples made with hands" (Acts 17:24)
God says "Heaven is my throne,earth is my footstool, how can you build a house for me?" (Isaiah 66:1)
 

Alanantic

Star
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
1,483
If anything history and centuries past have shown that man cannot and will not put an end to sufferings. Man is sinful by nature. He is predisposed toward sin.
I'm not.

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." -- Marcus Aurelius
 

Lyfe

Star
Joined
May 11, 2020
Messages
3,639
I'm not.

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." -- Marcus Aurelius
You are superior to the average person who likewise claims to be good?
 

Alanantic

Star
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
1,483
You are superior to the average person who likewise claims to be good?
Of course not. I just don't believe these things are true. "Man is sinful by nature. He is predisposed toward sin." I'm human and I make mistakes like everybody else.
 

Lyfe

Star
Joined
May 11, 2020
Messages
3,639
Of course not. I just don't believe these things are true. "Man is sinful by nature. He is predisposed toward sin." I'm human and I make mistakes like everybody else.
World history testifies of mans sinful nature. The 5pm news testifies of mans sinful nature. The entertainment industry and the peoples love for it testifies of mans sinful nature. Proof of mans sinful nature is all around you.
 

Alanantic

Star
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
1,483
World history testifies of mans sinful nature. The 5pm news testifies of mans sinful nature. The entertainment industry and the peoples love for it testifies of mans sinful nature. Proof of mans sinful nature is all around you.
Man's good nature is also all around you. I don't dwell on the other.
 

Tidal

Star
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
3,803
Tidal asked- Regarding "good" people, what if they reject Jesus, can they still be "good"?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't see why not.
Let me put it another way- Jesus stood for everything decent and honourable, so why would anybody want to reject him?
 

Alanantic

Star
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
1,483
Tidal asked- Regarding "good" people, what if they reject Jesus, can they still be "good"?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Let me put it another way- Jesus stood for everything decent and honourable, so why would anybody want to reject him?
So did Buddha, Krishna, Marcus Aurelius, and many others. We can learn many things from all good people.
 

Todd

Star
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
2,525
Tidal asked- Regarding "good" people, what if they reject Jesus, can they still be "good"?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Let me put it another way- Jesus stood for everything decent and honourable, so why would anybody want to reject him?
I really don't think too many people actually reject Jesus himself...They simply reject what they perceive as the hypocritical formal institutions that claim to represent him. Kabalist Jews are likely the only people who outright reject/hate the actual person Jesus. Muslims certainly don't reject Jesus. Buddists don't. Even Hindu's don't outright reject Jesus. The average un-religious American doesn't reject Jesus...thy just don't want to deal with the religious institutions that claim to represent him.

I don't know too many people who reject "Love the lord your God with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind and Love your neighbor as yourself". They just don't happen to agree that your institution and religion represents the true God.
 

Tidal

Star
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
3,803
So did Buddha, Krishna, Marcus Aurelius, and many others. We can learn many things from all good people.
The most important thing we can learn is how to get off this planet, and only Jesus told us how to do that..:)

 

Tidal

Star
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
3,803
I really don't think too many people actually reject Jesus himself...They simply reject what they perceive as the hypocritical formal institutions that claim to represent him.
...Muslims certainly don't reject Jesus.
Buddists don't.
Even Hindu's don't outright reject Jesus.

1- It's great that people reject organised religions, Jesus reminded us we don't need them-
"You have one teacher, me" (Matt 23:10)

2- Muslims say Jesus wasn't the Son of God, so it's the naughty step for them!

3- Buddha gave us his own best guesses and hunches, but Jesus gave us the words of God himself, how kool is that..:)

"For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak" (John 12:49)

4- Hindus have the wretched 'caste system'-




But I think I prefer the Christian approach..:)-
"God raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory:" (1 Sam 2:8 KJV)
 

Tidal

Star
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
3,803
Tidal said- The most important thing we can learn is how to get off this planet, and only Jesus told us how to do that.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, ALL religions do that.

They're dead ends because their founders are corpses in boxes somewhere, but Jesus is not, spot the difference?..:)

 
Top