USA - BASE NATION

[Stucky]

I’m an anti propagandist...

Yet here you are trying to tell us Saddam had WMDs...next you'll be telling us that Iraqi soldiers threw babies out of incubators and left them to die on the cold floor?

 

[Lisa]

Yet here you are trying to tell us Saddam had WMDs...next you'll be telling us that Iraqi soldiers threw babies out of incubators and left them to die on the cold floor?

I don’t really know all of Saddam’s crimes or those of his sons...or what his soldiers did the entire time...but it probably wasn’t all that good.

 

[Stucky]

I don’t really know all of Saddam’s crimes or those of his sons...or what his soldiers did the entire time...but it probably wasn’t all that good.

Wow!

 

[shankara]

What does it matter if they are as powerful as the US if they also have problems? And they have power over their citizens so it’s not nothing power...you have a hateful bent to the US and let other countries off a hook that you won’t do the same for us. That seems pretty hypocritical of you to base your views like that and then think you should lecture me on my country.

Your beliefs are inconsistent...you hate my country for evils you think it’s done..yet give a pass to other countries for their evils...how is that consistent on your end? Isn’t that preconceived beliefs?

Tax breaks to the corporations for employing people..keeping jobs here and Americans employed. Does giving tax breaks to individuals like the poor help the economy? Help with jobs so that the poor maybe could find a better paying job? You have no idea about how to create wealth for all because you have a preconceived belief that corporations hurt people when they actually help them by employing many people instead of a few with mom and pop stores. You won’t understand those things because it doesn’t line up with how you think the world should be. And if you won’t be taught and can’t learn all your left with is the hate you feel for something that isn’t even true..

It's not hate Lisa. Maybe in your worldview everyone who disagrees with what the USA does is full of hate and anger, but I assure you that this is not the case. Sometimes I am outraged by the injustices in the world, not just that of the USA, but I try not to be dominated by negative feelings. I simply try to look at facts, and base my worldview on facts rather than sentiments.

 

[Lisa]

It's not hate Lisa. Maybe in your worldview everyone who disagrees with what the USA does is full of hate and anger, but I assure you that this is not the case. Sometimes I am outraged by the injustices in the world, not just that of the USA, but I try not to be dominated by negative feelings. I simply try to look at facts, and base my worldview on facts rather than sentiments.

No you don’t..you look at things with the worldview of hate America it’s our biggest problem in the world. It’s pretty clear from everything you wrote that that’s what you believe.

 

[Orwell's mentor]

No you don’t..you look at things with the worldview of hate America it’s our biggest problem in the world. It’s pretty clear from everything you wrote that that’s what you believe.

Lisa, who are you to tell someone what they believe when they just explained to you what it is they believe? How is YOUR opinion of their beliefs supersede their own? Who are you to make this judgement call?

Perhaps one day you might understand why people find it futile to try and discuss things with you, but this is clearly ONE example.

 

[DevaWolf]

No you don’t..you look at things with the worldview of hate America it’s our biggest problem in the world. It’s pretty clear from everything you wrote that that’s what you believe.

Here Lisa, this should be your theme song.
I'm outta here too, with this bang.

 

[DevaWolf]

Lisa, who are you to tell someone what they believe when they just explained to you what it is they believe? How is YOUR opinion of their beliefs supersede their own? Who are you to make this judgement call?

Perhaps one day you might understand why people find it futile to try and discuss things with you, but this is clearly ONE example.

God tells Lisa what is true, and not us. That's the 'discernment'.

 

[shankara]

No you don’t..you look at things with the worldview of hate America it’s our biggest problem in the world. It’s pretty clear from everything you wrote that that’s what you believe.

Well let's analyze this a little. China is going to be a very big problem, perhaps a bigger problem that the USA in the not-so-distant future. However for the moment most people don't need the problem with the Chinese system explained to them. As I already mentioned, since WW2 America has caused the most problems through wars, espionage intrigues, sponsored coups etc than any other country. Ok, so maybe Stalin was worse, but again most people don't need the problem with Stalinism explained to them either.

Because the USA is the most powerful country in the world, it has the capacity to impose its agendas and desires on other places more than any other country. It's military budget is vastly higher than that of any other country, in fact it spends more on various ways of killing people each year than would be necessary to resolve the problem of hunger worldwide. Though other countries might cause some problems locally, none engage in the systematic attempt to impose their economic and political models on other places. Well, perhaps the former colonial powers to a certain extent, but nowadays much less than they used to.

I haven't got the time right now to make or find a list of everything the USA has done since WW2, or to systematically list the various problems which it has caused. For now you can perhaps content yourself with this:

US Interventions In Latin America

vigilantcitizenforums.com

None of these interventions were in any way necessary.

Anyway, it isn't hate Lisa, it's just having some knowledge of history. I'm rather drained now from this futile argument, so yeah have a nice day.

 

[Lisa]

Lisa, who are you to tell someone what they believe when they just explained to you what it is they believe? How is YOUR opinion of their beliefs supersede their own? Who are you to make this judgement call?

Perhaps one day you might understand why people find it futile to try and discuss things with you, but this is clearly ONE example.

It seemed obvious to me. Everything is the US is evil..while no other nation on earth is as bad...

What because I do cave to someone’s opinion I can’t discuss things? I don’t see anyone trying to understand by opinions...

God tells Lisa what is true, and not us. That's the 'discernment'.

God is truth..that’s for sure! He is the only truth.

 

[Lisa]

Well let's analyze this a little. China is going to be a very big problem, perhaps a bigger problem that the USA in the not-so-distant future. However for the moment most people don't need the problem with the Chinese system explained to them. As I already mentioned, since WW2 America has caused the most problems through wars, espionage intrigues, sponsored coups etc than any other country. Ok, so maybe Stalin was worse, but again most people don't need the problem with Stalinism explained to them either.

Because the USA is the most powerful country in the world, it has the capacity to impose its agendas and desires on other places more than any other country. It's military budget is vastly higher than that of any other country, in fact it spends more on various ways of killing people each year than would be necessary to resolve the problem of hunger worldwide. Though other countries might cause some problems locally, none engage in the systematic attempt to impose their economic and political models on other places. Well, perhaps the former colonial powers to a certain extent, but nowadays much less than they used to.

I haven't got the time right now to make or find a list of everything the USA has done since WW2, or to systematically list the various problems which it has caused. For now you can perhaps content yourself with this:

US Interventions In Latin America

vigilantcitizenforums.com

None of these interventions were in any way necessary.

Anyway, it isn't hate Lisa, it's just having some knowledge of history. I'm rather drained now from this futile argument, so yeah have a nice day.

Poor thing...you have to explain yourself more which you gave no facts..just your own wrong opinions again. Begrudgingly saying ya maybe some of those other countries were bad too. Must be hard to live in a bubble when someone challenges what you believe.

 

[justjess]

Poor thing...you have to explain yourself more which you gave no facts..just your own wrong opinions again. Begrudgingly saying ya maybe some of those other countries were bad too. Must be hard to live in a bubble when someone challenges what you believe.

The irony...

 

[Lisa]

The irony...

Haha..I didn’t say I was drained from the convo...

 

[justjess]

Haha..I didn’t say I was drained from the convo...

“Must be hard to live in a bubble”

you have been dwelling in a bubble your whole life and refuse to even look at anything outside it. Ironic.

 

[Hon33]

Haha..I didn’t say I was drained from the convo...

I don’t think it’s the conversation per se, more the conversation with you...

 

[Lisa]

I don’t think it’s the conversation per se, more the conversation with you...

It’s hard when I don’t agree..I know.

 

[shankara]

Poor thing...you have to explain yourself more which you gave no facts..just your own wrong opinions again. Begrudgingly saying ya maybe some of those other countries were bad too. Must be hard to live in a bubble when someone challenges what you believe.

Lisa, you are possibly the most frustrating person I have encountered in my entire life. I have on numerous occasions mentioned numerous actual happenings to you, I don't have the time to come up with a comprehensive list, but the link I gave you to the map of American interventions in Latin America is enough to convince any normal person that something is not quite right with Uncle Sam. Even if I were to make a comprehensive list of every single US foreign intervention, war, supported military coup etc., you would find some way to rationalize it. Honestly I would rather save such efforts for people who have the minimum of intellectual honesty to actually face facts.

No I'm not begrudgingly saying that other countries are also bad, I do think that I would rather live under the yanqui empire than a soviet or Chinese one, and obviously European nations have done a lot of very terrible things in the past. Such as the genocide of the native Americans on which the USA was founded, the vast numbers killed in the Belgian Congo etc. Though for a variety of reasons I would at present much rather live in Europe than the USA.

Anyway, literally it is just too draining to talk with you, it's utterly maddening in fact, and I am going to try to avoid it in future.

 

[Karlysymon]

Trump confirms plan to cut troops in Germany

The US president confirmed US plans on Monday to withdraw 9,500 troops from Germany.

www.bbc.com

Syria Redux. Remember when it was reported that Trump was withdrawing troops from Syria only for them to be moved to another corner in the country? Well, in this case, they apparently are being moved to Poland. Also afew weeks ago, there was talk about moving nuclear arsenal(?) from Germany to Poland. So the Polish authorities drummed up a Red Scare to justify the transfer of said arsenal. It is probably why the president (Duda) made a visit to the White House recently.

German defense official: “We always knew Trump would lash out when he is under pressure domestically, but we thought he would first pull out of Afghanistan.

Americans as a whole understand more what freedom is. I live in Canada and most people here are completely brainwashed by the mass media and the woke mentality. You do not find much on the subject of conspiracies in more socialist countries like mine and also Europe. Pretty much any material related to the freedom/"conspiracy theorist" movement comes from the US. Which is why there is a massive effort to undermine that country more. Thanks to the internet that material is being shared more elsewhere though.

I agree with you that much of the conspiracy-related material/websites come(s) from the US. A reason that I’ve seen repeatedly given is that it’s because the US boasts of a strong culture of secrecy. A lot of information is cloaked or hidden behind the wall of National Security, as such creating fertile ground for “conspiracy theorists” to mushroom all around. I’ll give you an example: Tom Secker of National Security Cinema has stated that requesting FOIA documents on gov’t involvement in Hollywood is now taking longer than before and the documents are given out even more heavily redacted. Seriously, I would grudgingly try to understand if the FOIA requests were about a coup d’etat in some country 20yrs ago but even information about entertainment is being withheld?? But that’s the national security state.

The other reason I can personally come up with to account for the pervasiveness of the conspiracy culture is because the government itself is heavily involved. Probably a sizeable chunk of this conspiracy movement is intelligence spawn/intelligence assets/controlled opposition etc. I read somewhere that Above Top Secret was being run out of Langley. So, if the gov’t is this heavily involved, it must be to continue to perpetuate that culture of secrecy by spreading misinformation or disinfo and red herrings.

Harry Truman-secrecy and democracy don’t mix.

I thought it had more to do with our freedoms that they don’t like.

Iam curious.

When you espouse this belief, is it because you actually sat down and looked at available evidence and arrived at that conclusion or is it a case of someone voicing that claim and taking your brain for a wash that you believe what you claim here? Or is Zbigniew(deceased) stating things as they really are...

The issue is you and many Americans think your free and the best country in the world. Your not, your not even in the top ten of many statistics, life expectancy, quality of life, health, workers rights, education, maternity care, your near the bottom on all of these with countries from the third world. America is a third world country masquerading as a first world country.

Also your freedom is an allusion, I can walk across the street when ever I want and won't get arrested, I can't walk anywhere and not worry about gunshots and being killed. I have the freedom to get medical care when ever and how ever much I need it and not once will I worry about cost, bankruptcy, of the insurance company will pay up or paying for it myself. That's true freedom.
Americans often go on about how free they are but what exactly do they have that first world countries and many third world countries don't already have? Or have better?

The propaganda is rammed in thick and hard and I loved the way Caitlin Johnstone(Australian) put it:
Americans are the most propagandized people on earth because of their proximity to the most strategically crucial part of the empire

Literally just weeks ago, the Attorney General wanted indefinite detention powers but even as these things happen and other laws on the books(yet to be used), you are still going to be reminded how “we are the freest country on the planet” and the media dutifully maintains that a sitting US president is the “leader of the Free world”.

 

[Karlysymon]

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

The Mystery Military Bases the Pentagon Doesn't Want You to Know About
The U.S. military is finally withdrawing (or not) from its base at al-Tanf. You know, the place that the Syrian government long claimed was a training ground for Islamic State (ISIS) fighters; the land corridor just inside Syria, near both the Iraqi and Jordanian borders, that Russia has called a terrorist hotbed (while floating the idea of jointly administering it with the United States); the location of a camp where hundreds of U.S. Marines joined Special Operations forces last year; an outpost that U.S. officials claimed was the key not only to defeating ISIS, but also, according to General Joseph Votel, the commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East, to countering “the malign activities that Iran and their various proxies and surrogates would like to pursue.” You know, that al-Tanf.

Within hours of President Trump’s announcement of a withdrawal of U.S. forces from Syria, equipment at that base was already being inventoried for removal. And just like that, arguably the most important American garrison in Syria was (maybe) being struck from the Pentagon’s books — except, as it happens, al-Tanf was never actually on the Pentagon’s books. Opened in 2015 and, until recently, home to hundreds of U.S. troops, it was one of the many military bases that exist somewhere between light and shadow, an acknowledged foreign outpost that somehow never actually made it onto the Pentagon’s official inventory of bases.

Once they're in, its hard to get them out
Like Germany, Japan has been occupied by the US for 70 years. Like Germany, it is not an independent country. Like Germany, it is compelled to toe the line dictated by Washington. Then there are a number of smaller states where the US has stationed its military on a permanent basis. Kosovo, for instance, where Camp Bondsteel is among the biggest US military installations in the world.

 

[Karlysymon]

If you know anything else about military bases around the world, feel free to share your information here. Maybe you have some even in your country

And stay safe

Doug Valentine said(at 42min mark) “….we have 800 Military bases around the world and nobody stops to think “why do we have 800 military bases…..i mean what are they doing?”….. So we (Americans) are very brainwashed and at the root of it is the need to maintain the military apparatus whose 800 bases around the world assure the very rich that they will have cheap labor forces, that their goods will flow from foreign countries where their products are being manufactured to be brought back to the US. So these bases serve to control the shipping lanes, to keep American transportation open. Also 800 military bases throughout the world means America has political influence in these countries. Out of all these bases, there are CIA officers creating informant networks outside those bases and infiltrating all the countries they are in. And again doing the sorts of things that were done during the Phoenix program….creating databases of people that can be counted on to support the American line.

This military base archipelago assures the rich political elite here in the US that they know everything going on around the world with every citizen, except for the few countries where they have a hard time establishing a military base. You don’t see tanks rolling across Europe or US battleships engaging German battleships or Japanese battleships. All that is a thing of the past. The US military has been politicized and this is how it polices the world."

This is pretty much about US military bases littered in the Pacific. And I agree with John Pilger that we don’t really see the protests against these bases or military installations on CNN, BBC etc. You’ll probably read an odd article here and there in Western press but you won’t see it on network news and I think that the military has gone to great lengths to co-opt the press, which in failing to broadcast these protests, perpetuates the idea that US military presence is loved and welcomed wherever it is stationed.

David Vine, the author of Base Nation was briefly interviewed.

Professor Bruce Cumings (at 1:33:00 mark)

“The archipelago of empire, the bases that we have around the world hidden in plain sight are the real territory of our empire. But at the same time, we maintain independent governments in Japan or South Korea or Germany. They don’t have autonomy when it comes to foreign policy so it becomes a very effective and sophisticated system whereby we pat ourselves on the back for helping to midwife democracy in Japan, South Korea, Germany and various other places while we keep the lid on, as we don’t know what these countries would do if they were fully independent and the beauty of this system is that most people pay no attention to it all. They think it is just a natural occurrence to have 50,000 American troops in Japan…”