USA - BASE NATION

Hon33

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Wasn’t more because he was the European Unions man?

No, I really don’t think it was - not at the time Blair was in office. No, as that article says, people lost their trust in everything Blair was saying when he lied about Iraq.
 






justjess

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So, you agree that it was a fake news story?
It wasn’t lol. How is it? Because it reported on a different measure of economic mobility - says so in the title - and included the information on traditional measures as well? That’s called reporting.
 






Lisa

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No, I really don’t think it was - not at the time Blair was in office. No, as that article says, people lost their trust in everything Blair was saying when he lied about Iraq.
Didn’t he get a job with the EU when he was out of office?
 






DevaWolf

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I’m sure you wouldn’t want to live here..you‘d have to work and not have the security net of your government to take care of you if you fail. Idk what happens when your government officials keep taking most of the money for themselves..but I guess when they are taking care of you that doesn’t matter..somehow they’ll still take care of you too?

Happy in your enslavement.
Why do you think I don't work? I am a fulltime software engineer with a good wage. Our entire country works except for a small percentage of disabled people who get a reasonable living allowance, which is something I endorse.

I am happy they have a healthcare system in place yes, instead of being always one step away from destitution as you are in America.
 






Lisa

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Answer the question Lisa, is there more capitalist or anti-capitalist propaganda? Because you are accusing us of being brainwashed by propaganda, which of course begs the question of "what propaganda exactly?".
That the US is bad when we are as bad as any other country. We have good abs we have bad and people just live their lives here like anywhere else. The truth is is that many people want to come here for a better life that they can make for themselves if they work hard enough...it’s called the American dream.
 






Lisa

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Why do you think I don't work? I am a fulltime software engineer with a good wage. Our entire country works except for a small percentage of disabled people who get a reasonable living allowance, which is something I endorse.

I am happy they have a healthcare system in place yes, instead of being always one step away from destitution as you are in America.
I said you’d have to work and not have the security of the government to take care of you if you fail.
 






Hon33

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That the US is bad when we are as bad as any other country. We have good abs we have bad and people just live their lives here like anywhere else. The truth is is that many people want to come here for a better life that they can make for themselves if they work hard enough...it’s called the American dream.
Aren’t you a little out of date with the whole “American Dream” concept?
Have you been to Europe, Lisa?
 






DevaWolf

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I said you’d have to work and not have the security of the government to take care of you if you fail.
Yeah, you'd have to work. And what about people with disabilities? They should just suffer and die? I guess so, as you think Trump made America great again and kicked the support system for the disabled. If you become severely disabled and your husband leaves you, you should die in the gutter?

The american dream? Yeah it's called that way because you have to be asleep to believe it.
 






Lisa

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Yeah, you'd have to work. And what about people with disabilities? They should just suffer and die? I guess so, as you think Trump made America great again and kicked the support system for the disabled. If you become severely disabled and your husband leaves you, you should die in the gutter?

The american dream? Yeah it's called that way because you have to be asleep to believe it.
We also have a taxed based welfare program here in the US where our taxes go to programs that we are told help people that you are talking about.
 






Lisa

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Aren’t you a little out of date with the whole “American Dream” concept?
Have you been to Europe, Lisa?
Why do you suppose people still want to come here then?

I have been to Europe a couple of times...mostly England and the last time I was in France as well.
 






Hon33

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Why do you suppose people still want to come here then?

I have been to Europe a couple of times...mostly England and the last time I was in France as well.
Frankly Lisa, I have no idea why anyone would want to go there.
Aren’t you even a little bit envious of the depth of history and culture in Europe, compared to the US?
 






Lisa

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Frankly Lisa, I have no idea why anyone would want to go there.
Aren’t you even a little bit envious of the depth of history and culture in Europe, compared to the US?
The history of Europe or anywhere in the world for that matter is pretty interesting...we don’t have as much here and what we have the dems are trying to destroy. Which is sad really. I can’t help it that our history is only so long but it is also pretty interesting for the shortness of it.

However what culture do you think you have that I should be envious of?
 






shankara

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That the US is bad when we are as bad as any other country. We have good abs we have bad and people just live their lives here like anywhere else. The truth is is that many people want to come here for a better life that they can make for themselves if they work hard enough...it’s called the American dream.
I think there's a lot more pro-American propaganda than anti-American. Actually being anti-American is something of a fringe belief.
 






Lisa

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I think there's a lot more pro-American propaganda than anti-American. Actually being anti-American is something of a fringe belief.
No the anti American propaganda is a everywhere filling people’s hearts with hate for us..even in America where young people are taught to hate their country because our supposed evils trump that of other countries in the world. :rolleyes:
 






shankara

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No the anti American propaganda is a everywhere filling people’s hearts with hate for us..even in America where young people are taught to hate their country because our supposed evils trump that of other countries in the world. :rolleyes:
Oh no, you poor things, poor suffering America, how much pity I feel for you... Seriously, do you not expect people to be concerned with a hegemonic power which goes around imposing it's own "values" on other countries at gunpoint? Which killed two million in Vietnam in order to prop up an opium-dealing client regime... Two million human beings, Lisa, people just like yourself. Of course you don't care because from the American perspective these are "unpeople", not real human lives like the lives of Americans... Among many other crimes...

Obviously you don't know much about history... If you did then you might grasp what is going on, really it's quite obvious, but you need to actually have the honesty to accept blatant facts.

As it is, you are...

An anti-abortionist... Who doesn't mind children dying in war...
A creationist... Who believes in "survival of the fittest", no help for the "failures"...
A Christian... Who has little sympathy for the poor...

Ah yes, the US Evangelical, what a curious species...

By the way Lisa, many Europeans are quite proud of the welfare state, which allows people who are temporarily out of work for whatever reason to survive. Sure, some people abuse it, but better that than people starving for lack of work. Because unlike you Americans we don't think that anyone who has some financial problems or whatever is a "failure", we understand that life can be difficult and people can have problems, and so we try to give people a hand. I'm not proud of Europe's past, but its present is much nicer than that of the US...

Anyway, I think I will duck out of this discussion. Until you develop the capacity to check your preconceived opinions against actual facts, there is no talking to you. Most seekers of truth have some doubt, they question things.
 






Lisa

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Oh no, you poor things, poor suffering America, how much pity I feel for you... Seriously, do you not expect people to be concerned with a hegemonic power which goes around imposing it's own "values" on other countries at gunpoint? Which killed two million in Vietnam in order to prop up an opium-dealing client regime... Two million human beings, Lisa, people just like yourself. Of course you don't care because from the American perspective these are "unpeople", not real human lives like the lives of Americans... Among many other crimes...

Obviously you don't know much about history... If you did then you might grasp what is going on, really it's quite obvious, but you need to actually have the honesty to accept blatant facts.

As it is, you are...

An anti-abortionist... Who doesn't mind children dying in war...
A creationist... Who believes in "survival of the fittest", no help for the "failures"...
A Christian... Who has little sympathy for the poor...

Ah yes, the US Evangelical, what a curious species...

By the way Lisa, many Europeans are quite proud of the welfare state, which allows people who are temporarily out of work for whatever reason to survive. Sure, some people abuse it, but better that than people starving for lack of work. Because unlike you Americans we don't think that anyone who has some financial problems or whatever is a "failure", we understand that life can be difficult and people can have problems, and so we try to give people a hand. I'm not proud of Europe's past, but its present is much nicer than that of the US...

Anyway, I think I will duck out of this discussion. Until you develop the capacity to check your preconceived opinions against actual facts, there is no talking to you. Most seekers of truth have some doubt, they question things.
Did we fight ourselves in Vietnam? Of course only we killed people there..:rolleyes:

I am an anti abortionist..what’s wrong with not wanting someone to die before they are born?
Yes I believe God created the heavens and the earth and everyone in it. What’s wrong with that? How is what I believe the survival of the fittest when I don’t want people to be slaves to the state..how is being a slave to the state good for anyone’s life?

Yep, I am a Christian..I do care about the poor..but disagree in how to help them.

The problem with the welfare state is it doesn’t produce people who want to help themselves but want to be taken care of and who find that care to be hard to get away from.

How is Europe’s present nicer than that of the US? England and France went to get Gaddafi and we followed them.

You don’t question anything but you go off of your own beliefs and don’t give any thought that it might be wrong. You single out one country for all of your hate and absolve the rest of the world of its crimes and yet you think your so smart and above it all..
 






shankara

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Did we fight ourselves in Vietnam? Of course only we killed people there..:rolleyes:

I am an anti abortionist..what’s wrong with not wanting someone to die before they are born?
Yes I believe God created the heavens and the earth and everyone in it. What’s wrong with that? How is what I believe the survival of the fittest when I don’t want people to be slaves to the state..how is being a slave to the state good for anyone’s life?

Yep, I am a Christian..I do care about the poor..but disagree in how to help them.

The problem with the welfare state is it doesn’t produce people who want to help themselves but want to be taken care of and who find that care to be hard to get away from.

How is Europe’s present nicer than that of the US? England and France went to get Gaddafi and we followed them.

You don’t question anything but you go off of your own beliefs and don’t give any thought that it might be wrong. You single out one country for all of your hate and absolve the rest of the world of its crimes and yet you think your so smart and above it all..
I'm not saying that other countries don't have problems. But for one they are not as powerful as the USA, which basically dominates the whole world with it's vast military superiority, and spreads it's culture everywhere. For two, since World War II at least, there is no country that compares in terms of foreign interventions and underhanded coup-plotting. The thing is, the USA also holds itself up as a moral example, it thinks of itself as the land of "freedom and democracy" while promoting the exact opposite. Massive hypocrisy basically.

It's not what you believe that bothers me, you are quite free to be a creationist etc., the thing is that your beliefs have so much logical inconsistency (which was what I was trying to point out). Nor is it about hate for the USA, its simply facing up to the reality of facts rather than simply holding preconceived beliefs. Perhaps you can't see that because you are simply unaware of the facts, or when you become aware of them you rationalize them.

For example you could see my thread on "US Interventions in Latin America". The whole thing is quite clear, it's obvious that there was a lot of wrongdoing by the USA towards those countries. Or if you actually understood the story of the Vietnam War, that they were supporting a corrupt regime just to "defeat communism" and attacked Cambodia because it dared to be neutral in the Cold War. Or you could consider why America has 5% of the world's population and 25% of its prisoners, or why it isn't signed up to the ICC, or why it gives tax breaks to corporations instead of to the poor. If you can't see, then you are being dishonest with yourself, it's that simple.

Anyway, I can't be bothered anymore, have a nice day Lisa.
 






Lisa

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I'm not saying that other countries don't have problems. But for one they are not as powerful as the USA, which basically dominates the whole world with it's vast military superiority, and spreads it's culture everywhere. For two, since World War II at least, there is no country that compares in terms of foreign interventions and underhanded coup-plotting. The thing is, the USA also holds itself up as a moral example, it thinks of itself as the land of "freedom and democracy" while promoting the exact opposite. Massive hypocrisy basically.

It's not what you believe that bothers me, you are quite free to be a creationist etc., the thing is that your beliefs have so much logical inconsistency (which was what I was trying to point out). Nor is it about hate for the USA, its simply facing up to the reality of facts rather than simply holding preconceived beliefs. Perhaps you can't see that because you are simply unaware of the facts, or when you become aware of them you rationalize them.

For example you could see my thread on "US Interventions in Latin America". The whole thing is quite clear, it's obvious that there was a lot of wrongdoing by the USA towards those countries. Or if you actually understood the story of the Vietnam War, that they were supporting a corrupt regime just to "defeat communism" and attacked Cambodia because it dared to be neutral in the Cold War. Or you could consider why America has 5% of the world's population and 25% of its prisoners, or why it isn't signed up to the ICC, or why it gives tax breaks to corporations instead of to the poor. If you can't see, then you are being dishonest with yourself, it's that simple.

Anyway, I can't be bothered anymore, have a nice day Lisa.
What does it matter if they are as powerful as the US if they also have problems? And they have power over their citizens so it’s not nothing power...you have a hateful bent to the US and let other countries off a hook that you won’t do the same for us. That seems pretty hypocritical of you to base your views like that and then think you should lecture me on my country.

Your beliefs are inconsistent...you hate my country for evils you think it’s done..yet give a pass to other countries for their evils...how is that consistent on your end? Isn’t that preconceived beliefs?

Tax breaks to the corporations for employing people..keeping jobs here and Americans employed. Does giving tax breaks to individuals like the poor help the economy? Help with jobs so that the poor maybe could find a better paying job? You have no idea about how to create wealth for all because you have a preconceived belief that corporations hurt people when they actually help them by employing many people instead of a few with mom and pop stores. You won’t understand those things because it doesn’t line up with how you think the world should be. And if you won’t be taught and can’t learn all your left with is the hate you feel for something that isn’t even true..
 






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