To Muslims: Proof from the Quran that Mohammad/Islam is wrong

[Lefort3000]

This is a very simple proof based on what the Quran says. The Quran, in multiple areas, says that the New Testament and the Old Testament, at the of Mohammad, were accurate:

Here are the verses:

Surah 3:3-4:
He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

Surah 9:111:

Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah, so they kill and are killed. [It is] a true promise [binding] upon Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah ? So rejoice in your transaction which you have contracted. And it is that which is the great attainment.

Surah 21:7:

And We did not send before you (O Muhammad) but human to whom We revealed. So you ask the people of the reminder (Scripture - the Torah and the Gospel) if you don’t know.

Surah 10:94:

So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.

Surah 16:43:

And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask the people of the message if you do not know.

Surah 7:157:

Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful.

Surah 2:113:

The Jews say "The Christians have nothing [true] to stand on," and the Christians say, "The Jews have nothing to stand on," although they [both] recite the Scripture. Thus the polytheists speak the same as their words. But Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that over which they used to differ.


Surah 48:

Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating [in prayer], seeking bounty from Allah and [His] pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Torah. And their description in the Gospel is as a plant which produces its offshoots and strengthens them so they grow firm and stand upon their stalks, delighting the sowers - so that Allah may enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them forgiveness and a great reward.


Surah 5:68:

Say, "O People of the Scripture, you are [standing] on nothing until you uphold [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord." And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. So do not grieve over the disbelieving people.


Muslims nowadays love saying that the Bible is corrupted, due to them knowing that the New Testament disagrees with what Mohammad said in multiple areas. Yet, here we have Mohammad verifying the New Testament (and Old Testament) that were around during his time period. Also, by the 7th century, we have a large amount of manuscripts and miniscules confirming that the New Testament of today is the same as the one that was around at that time period.

For where the New Testament and Mohammads revelations differ, Mohammad, in the final stage of his ministries, said that the Christians worshiping Jesus was shirk, which is a big sin, and that Jesus was merely a prophet of God, not the Son of God. However, this is clearly contradicted in the Gospel of Matthew, in a few other accounts in the other Gospels, and perhaps the most clearly in Revelation. In fact, Jesus says in Revelation "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last", of which Allah repeats atleast one time in the Quran. Also, the Quranic account says Jesus never died, whereas the New Testament says Jesus died for people's sins, and this is addressed in the Gospels directly and Revelation (the blood of the Lamb).

Shoutout to Acts17Apologetics and the website answering-Islam for this.

 

[seekinheart]

I seen the post recently which he said

Ask a muslim, to show you in the Qu'Ran where Allah, says UNEQUIVOCALLY - the gospels have been corrupted. There is no such verse and yet, the verse you show endorse it. So if the Gospel contradicts Islam, and Islam does not say its corrupted UNEQUIVOCALLY, as that is what muslims want from Jesus, literal unequivocal statements, who is lying?

3 Guesses.

 

[JoChris]

 

[Lisa]

Truth is important in sharing the gospel..you can’t just be peoples friends..that ends up being a handicap.

 

[Infinityloop]

What does the Quran say about the previous Books? Were these Books textually corrupted or were they available in an intact form at the time of the revelation of the Quran?
The following Quranic verse may indicate that they were indeed available intact:


And the people of the Injeel shall rule in accordance with what God has brought down therein. Those who do not rule by what God has brought down, they are indeed the wicked ones. 5:47

If the Injeel (the Book God revealed to Jesus) at the time of the revelation of the Quran was corrupted, how can the people of the Injeel judge by what is in it?

To reply to this question it is necessary to read 5:46 and 5:47 together:


And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming what came before him of the the Torah. We gave him the Injeel containing guidance and light and confirming what came before it of the Torah, and providing guidance and advice for the reverent. 5:46


And the people of the Injeel shall rule in accordance with what God has brought down therein. Those who do not rule by what God has brought down, they are indeed the wicked ones. 5:47


1- It is clear that God is speaking about the time of Jesus when God revealed to him the Injeel.

2- In 5:47 God speaks about the “people of the Injeel”, which speaks of the people who have access to the Injeel. As will be shown later, the Injeel which God revealed to Jesus has long been lost and destroyed. This happened around the Council of Nicaea in the year 325 A.D. which was 3 centuries before the revelation of the Quran. As a result, when the Quran was revealed there were no “people of the Injeel” nor are there any such people today. The New Testament we have today is not the Injeel.


The New Testament:


Various English translation of the Quran use the word ‘gospel’ in place of Injeel. This is not an accurate word to use. The Gospel as is known today is the New Testament. God tells us that He gave the Injeel to Jesus:

Then We sent Our messengers to follow in their footsteps, then to follow We sent Jesus the son of Mary. We gave him the Injeel and We placed compassion and mercy in the hearts of those who followed him. 57:27

The New Testament (NT) we have today is not the Injeel for the following reasons:

1- The NT was written after the death of Jesus.
2- The NT is a collection of stories about Jesus, his teachings and his sayings. Did God give Jesus a book about his life and sayings?
3- The NT was written by men like Mathew, Mark, Luke, John and Paul who never met Jesus. God did not give the Injeel to those men, but it was given to Jesus.

The original Injeel that was given to Jesus was destroyed and the possession of any copies of it was banned after the council of Nicaea in 325 A.D. when the doctrine of the Trinity was adopted.

It is clear that when God speaks of “the people of the Injeel” God is speaking of the people who received the Injeel and who had access to it. The Christians today, or those at the time of Muhammad, are not “the people of the Injeel”, for they follow a man made book (NT) and a religion (Christianity) that was never authorised by God nor was it ever preached by Jesus (Jesus was a practicing Jew all his life).

With this understanding, we attain the correct meaning of “the people of the Injeel” in 5:47. This phrase speaks of the original receivers of the Injeel and those who still had access to it. They were the ones who were commanded by God to rule according to what they were given in the Injeel.

All who follow the New Testament are in fact following man made hadith not any different from the hadith of Bukhari, Muslim and the others, while thinking that they are following the word of God!


The Old Testament:


With regards to the Old Testament, we find a number of Quranic verses where God speaks of the Jews, or the people of Moses, and how they corrupted their Scriptures.
The Old Testament, which we have today, may indeed include some of the original Torah which God gave the Children of Israel, but also much of what we have today are corrupted additions and other parts being removed or lost from the original Scripture, also words wrongly translated from the original, and other words taken out of their correct context. The Quran also speaks of those among the People of the Book who add their own words to the Scriptures and claim it is from God:


Taking God’s words out of context:


Some amongst the Jews distort the words out of their context, and they say, "We hear and we disobey," and "Listen to one who cannot be heard," and "Be our shepherd," twisting their tongues and slandering the religion. 4:46


O messenger, do not let them grieve you who hasten into disbelieve among those who say, "We believe," with their mouths, while their hearts did not believe. And among the Jews are those who are avid listeners to lies. They listen to other people who have not come to you. They distort the words out of their context, and they say, "If you are given this, then take it, but if you are not given it, then beware." 5:41


Distorting God’s words:


Do you long that they would believe you when some of them used to hear God’s words then distort them knowingly after they had understood them? 2:75


Adding their words to God’s scripture:


Among them are a group who twist the Scripture with their tongues so you would think it is from the Scripture, when it is not from the Scripture. And they say it is from God, when it is not from God. And they say lies about God, knowingly. 3:78


Deliberately concealing parts of the scripture:


The Quran also tells us about those who concealed parts of the scripture. We know there are many apocryphal texts rejected by Jews and Christians in 5:15:

O People of the Book, Our messenger has come to you to clarify to you many issues that you were concealing in the Scripture, and to pardon many issues. A Light has come to you from God and a clear Book. 5:15


We know there are many apocryphal texts rejected by Jews and Christians in 5:15:

---------------------------
​

Indeed God speaks of the Injeel and the Torah as sources of guidance for the people. However, when God speaks of the Injeel or Torah God speaks about these Scriptures in their original pure form in which they were first revealed. When these Scriptures were revealed they were surely guidance for the people, but that was before they were corrupted (Torah) or totally lost (Injeel).

It is for that reason that God instructs the previous People of the Book to believe in the Quran.


Invitation to the Jews and Christians to believe in the Quran:


When God says that the Quran supersedes previous Scriptures, it is because God knows that the Injeel and the Torah would be either lost or corrupted:


And We brought down to you the Book (Quran) with truth, confirming what came before it of the Scripture, and superseding it. 5:48


For this reason, God repeatedly commanded the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) to believe in the Quran.
In 2:89 and 2:90 we read about the People of the Book who refused to believe in what was revealed after them of the Scripture because they resented that God bestows His grace upon whomever He wills. Then in 2:91 we read:


And when they are told, "You shall believe in what God has brought down," they said, "We believe in what was brought down to us." And they disbelieve in what came after it, which is the truth confirming what is with them! Say, "Why then did you kill God's prophets before if you were believers?" 2:91


We read that those who truly believe among the People of the Book will find no difficulty in believing in the Quran:


Those whom We gave the Scripture, who recite it as per its correct recitation; they believe in it (Quran). As for those who disbelieve in it, they are indeed the losers. 2:121


The instruction given to the People of the Book to believe in the Quran is given in clear words:


O you who have received the Scripture, you shall believe in what we have brought down, confirming what you have, before we obliterate faces and turn them backwards, or curse them as We cursed the people of the Sabbath. God's command will be done. 4:47


Conclusion:


1- The previous Scriptures were either lost (the Injeel) or were corrupted (Torah).
2- The Quranic instruction to the People of the Book to rule according to their Scripture speaks only of the receivers of the original Scriptures when they were in their intact uncorrupted form.
3- The receivers of the previous Scriptures are required to believe in the Quran.




And even on the basic level, even wikipedia has a decent list two areas of corruption of the Bible:

List of New Testament verses not included in modern English translations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Textual variants in the New Testament - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's without going much deeper into this subject which is a massive topic in secular (not Muslim) scholarship.

Also, the Quranic account says Jesus never died, whereas the New Testament says Jesus died for people's sins, and this is addressed in the Gospels directly and Revelation (the blood of the Lamb).

Christians, make up your mind. Either the Qur'an confirms the Bible or it doesn't ROTFL!

This kind of bipolar apologetics I was just witnessing from Wigi two days ago funny enough.



And also, without all of the above, someone else already exposed David Wood's fallacies many days before this thread:

This very subject has been a subject I've repeatedly spoken about since I first joined this forum. I've made countless threads on the subject:

How do Christians reconcile belief in God and Prophets with the Bible?

How do Christians reconcile belief in God and Prophets, while taking the Bible as their authority? This is another question I want to see answered with actual honesty and not self-righteous elitism. edit: Four pages in and the OP here still hasn't been answered.

vigilantcitizenforums.com

The Bible versus other religious texts

Say we were in a bookstore, in the religious section and you were asked to advice somebody what book to get and you wanted them to buy a copy of the Bible, what you say to them to convince them of how great the Bible is? Remember, you have to sell it on it's validity over these other religious...

vigilantcitizenforums.com

If the Vatican is the antichrist, then why do you trust the Bible?

Discuss.

vigilantcitizenforums.com

The Bible and Prophets: a second attempt at conveying my conclusions from studying the Bible

How do Christians reconcile belief in God and Prophets, while taking the Bible as their authority? This is another question I want to see answered with actual honesty and not self-righteous elitism. edit: Four pages in and the OP here still hasn't been answered. Really this needs to be...

vigilantcitizenforums.com

What possible reason, if any, would you have for someone to accept the New Testament?

This question is posed not for Jews specifically but just for the idea of the Old Testament itself. If someone accepted the Old Testament (starting with the "Five books of Moses") as 'scripture'. If they accepted those, then what possible thing could the New Testament have to offer them, if...

vigilantcitizenforums.com

The infallible word of God?

In short, I have already made my position clear. I trust that the bible is the inspired, infallible Word of GOD. It is not corrupted by human reasoning or speculations. If you choose to dismiss it as "shallow' that is your opinion. You truly MUST be born again to understand the depth of the...

vigilantcitizenforums.com

What is the difference between the New Testament and the Book of Mormon?

Of course, I know what the New Testament is and what the Book of Mormon is, and I know their contexts, etc. But as far as credibility goes, is there anything about the New Testament that actually has anything to offer as far as truth claims in comparison to what the Book of Mormon claims...

vigilantcitizenforums.com

AND, as I already said in THIS THREAD:

You're arguing from Catholic/Protestant assumption here and you don't even notice there that these terms are in the singular. Also the etymology of the two most important there "Torah" means 'teaching, instruction or way' and "Gospel" means 'good news or glad tidings'.

"Torah", Tawrat, functionally means the Jewish scriptures in it's general historical use. The word "Torah" itself in Judaism applies to both the Pentateuch EQUALLY as much as it does the Talmud (which is called "Oral Torah"). This is because "Torah" means teaching, and is associated 100% with the revelation from God to Moses at Mount Sinai which still remains central to the Israelite religion, Samaritanism and Judaism. Torah is a Law and collection of teachings given to Moses, not a book contained in the Bible in-and-of-itself. The Pentateuch is mainly just a Hadith collection of Moses' life. With the exception to Deuteronomy in particular - which for a multitude of reasons, seems to be the closest we have to the Tawrat in the form of it's revelation or implementation by the actual Moses.
When the Qur'an refers to words such as that, it is semantically referring to Revelations, not books. This is where you strawman us, strawmanning us only makes you look foolish and ignorant.

As for Injeel:
"And We sent after them in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard (against evil)." - Surah 5:46

It is the revelation to Jesus given by God, embodied as a Law and Teaching. Nobody "gave" Jesus the books of "Matthew, mark, luke and john", in fact Jesus was long gone after that too, lmao.
Some of the closest examples of the semantic use is very close to the Didache (which was taken as scripture by many early forms of Christianity and practically predates the entire "New Testament") and what we see presented as the "sermon on the mount" in Matthew 5-7. But NOT the story of Jesus' life.
Jesus' life simply written by a bunch of people would be Hadith or Seerah, NOT scripture. This sets aside the issue that there is no chain of transmission for matthew mark luke and john and that none of them date far back enough to even be considered properly historical, in comparison to various other non-canonical texts (of which still aren't the proper Injeel).

The Qur'an doesn't, nor Islam, takes any official position on the Bible (a 66 book canon decided upon by a bunch of guys in a room back in the 4th century) as a whole because it doesn't acknowledge it at all. The Bible wasn't written or transmitted by God (aside from the very certainty of a concrete historical use of Deuteronomy in a much early version by the historical Moses - minus the inserts), let alone 'canonized by God', ROTFL.

The Bible is not a collection of Revelations, it is a collection of historical accounts, poems, wisdom literature, letters and visions.
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are not the Injeel, there is no such possibility of this ever logically being the case whatsoever. And all the Paulian and Johannine epistles are especially not the Injeel either.

As for the Zaboor, that is more mysterious, both in relation to what the Ketuvim book itself actually is and what the Qur'an is referring to.

None of this throws out any of the value to be found in the Bible but it means that you have to reconsider what the Bible, both as a religious collection of texts, and doctrinally, is.

The Protestant idea of "scripture" is also very different from the Catholic and Orthodox idea of Scripture, as is Christianity as a whole's perspective of the Tanakh entirely divorced from the Jewish and Samaritan understanding of the same texts. And the Islamic view of scripture is entirely different from the above, for reasons of Divine Authority over the authority of man.
Alongside this you have to realize that the very idea of canon in your own religion is incoherent, you must keep that in mind when you analyse your own collection of books (the Bible).

 

[AspiringSoul]

in Revelation 1, the HOLY SPIRIT says
"the Alpha and Omega"

The holy spirit being the third level of God's expression, is the plane of Causality. Hence 'first and last' is similar to Brahma and Shiva and pertains to Causation and Dissolution.

i know you won't 'get this' but likewise you won't get that the Word/logos/son/image is eternal and therefore isn't a 'first and a last' (i'm applying your school of thought to this).
In islam, there's no need to declare 3 objects/persons, since all they are really are 2 expressions of God's Immanence, eg the universal/microcosmic and the microcosmic. Hence Allah in effect owns all those expressions. Afterall Jesus himself said "the Son can do nothing on his own".

Furthermore, the Quran calls Jesus 'His Word'.
The WORD IS THE SON!! so you cant say 'but muslims deny Jesus is da son tho', fundamentally we believe Jesus is the Word made flesh..but we dont mix it with dangerous language eg 'Son of God'.
What the Quran doesn't do is make the same error jews did, in using dangerous language like 'Son' which will be taken out of context by those unable to understand it...for example YOU.

the fact you said 'jEzuZ sAyz' when referring to the holy spirit makes this all the more comical.
if you cant understand the error, how will you understand John 16's reference to the holy spirit?
you realise the holy spirit functions through people? the acts done through people, inspired by the Holy Spirit, are the act of the Holy Spirit also, hence when Jesus said

"he will tell you all that is to come"
"he will bring you into All the truth"
that didnt happen through christianity, it happened through islam.

Jesus told the disciples
"i have many more things to say, but you CANNOT BEAR IT RIGHT NOW"
if those people couldnt understand Jesus, what makes you think they were later guided, ironically by your invisible version of Jesus?
Jesus said "he lives inside you" on the holy spirit/comforter.
so if the holy spirit was already living inside them...why did Jesus also say

Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you;
the holy spirit was already in them, so why was it necessary for Jesus to leave?

 

[grateful servant]

To idol worshipers: The TRUE story of Salman the Persian:

 

[seekinheart]

They had canonical disagreements, they added vowel sounds, hadiths, tons of differences in different Qu'Rans, "perfectly preserved" my foot.

 

[Infinityloop]

Here's a great video on the subject, (not from a Muslim) who merely scrapes the surface of this rabbithole known as "the bible":

 

[JoChris]

April 21, 2020 -

 

[Kung Fu]

The Injeel and Torah that the Quran talks about is not the NT and OT that you Christians read today.

If you're going to post something at least be honest.

 

[Infinityloop]

If you're going to post something at least be honest.

Bro we're talking with Christians here, you know they have a prejudice against being honest

 

[Kung Fu]

April 21, 2020 -

Why would the Quran need to tell us the Bible you read today is corrupt when we can see for ourselves with all the interpolations? Or are you going to start claiming the Bible doesn't have any interpolations in it?

 

[Infinityloop]

Why would the Quran need to tell us the Bible you read today is corrupt when we can see for ourselves with all the interpolations? Or are you going to start claiming the Bible doesn't have any interpolations in it?

And beside that, anyone who has eyes and can read the text of the Bible can instantly tell that it's not a revelation from God and only a collection of biographical narratives.
I actually made this thread a long time ago but notice that JoChris was too scared to answer it: https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-infallible-word-of-god.6807/

This also goes along with the graphs I posted in post five

 

[Kung Fu]

They had canonical disagreements, they added vowel sounds, hadiths, tons of differences in different Qu'Rans, "perfectly preserved" my foot.

I haven't watched the video but if David Wood and Nabeel were so confident in "Qurans" being different how come they refused to debate Shabir Ally and other Islamic debaters when it comes to the preservation of the Quran? Could it be because they actually don't understand Arabic and know nothing on the subject?

 

[JoChris]

P.S. Christian lurkers please note that NO Muslim/ Christian apostate from the forum interact will ever interact with Youtube apologists.

Either:
1. No courage
2. Not enough education about what is in THEIR own texts
3. No ability to keep under 200 characters.
4. All above 3.

It does not matter how much evidence that Muhammad (their real god, not Allah) was an adulterer, a murderer, a p**ophile, a rapist, a serial robber, an illiterate man, a racist etc... or that the only reason the religion remained was that people were mass murdered if they did not convert to/ remain in Islam. They would rather reject the Son of God's death on the cross to defeat death and sin in exchange for superficial moral codes and a promise of 72+ virgins + endless feasting in their Paradise.

Therefore please follow Ephesians 6:10-20 if you do choose to interact with them. I have been encouraged seeing that some of you are willing to do this, I pray that the blood of Jesus covers you for protection and you are given the wisdom needed to continue this important role.

 

[JoChris]

Truth is important in sharing the gospel..you can’t just be peoples friends..that ends up being a handicap.

And when time after time determined disbelievers prove that they refuse to believe in Jesus it is time for some to move on to serious Truth seekers.
Genuine seekers and genuine Muslims who actually BELIEVE Muhammad's words (that threaten murder to Christians on Youtube, myself included) are way more interesting to interact with IMO. But each Christian has their place in the Body of Christ.

 

[Lisa]

And when time after time determined disbelievers prove that they refuse to believe in Jesus it is time for some to move on to serious Truth seekers.
Genuine seekers and genuine Muslims who actually BELIEVE Muhammad's words (that threaten murder to Christians on Youtube, myself included) are way more interesting to interact with IMO. But each Christian has their place in the Body of Christ.

The thing is you don’t know that they can’t be saved. If you say I’m done, are you giving up on God working? I agree though, everyone has their place and it is pretty repetitive here.

 

[Kung Fu]

P.S. Christian lurkers please note that NO Muslim/ Christian apostate from the forum interact will ever interact with Youtube apologists.

Either:
1. No courage
2. Not enough education about what is in THEIR own texts
3. No ability to keep under 200 characters.
4. All above 3.

It does not matter how much evidence that Muhammad (their real god, not Allah) was an adulterer, a murderer, a p**ophile, a rapist, a serial robber, an illiterate man, a racist etc... or that the only reason the religion remained was that people were mass murdered if they did not convert to/ remain in Islam. They would rather reject the Son of God's death on the cross to defeat death and sin in exchange for superficial moral codes and a promise of 72+ virgins + endless feasting in their Paradise.

Therefore please follow Ephesians 6:10-20 if you do choose to interact with them. I have been encouraged seeing that some of you are willing to do this, I pray that the blood of Jesus covers you for protection and you are given the wisdom needed to continue this important role.

You wrote a lot but didn't address anything IL or I have stated. You continue to make claims but yet refuse to back them up with actual academic work.

Lurkers take note that when Christians ask Muslims questions Muslims answer but when certain Christians are asked questions on here they never answer the actual question.

 

[JoChris]

The thing is you don’t know that they can’t be saved. If you say I’m done, are you giving up on God working? I agree though, everyone has their place and it is pretty repetitive here.

No, if God has the mercy to draw me back from all my terrible choices and disbelief then I am sure He can do the same for all contributors here. However if other Christians are happy to interact with the muslims here who have exceptionally hardened hearts, God must have given them extreme patience that I do not have.

I just believe for the resident Muslims on *this forum only* my role is finished. I have a heart for Muslims who have started looking for the Truth because they have realised they are not being taught what is actually in the Islamic texts. I no longer have patience to continue interacting with those who have rejected Jesus but pretend they are rejecting Christianity for "intellectual" reasons. They only deceive themselves.