No regard...for the desire of women

[Haich]

Jesus died for your sins, but lets say you have an affair, you can ask God to forgive you and he will, but you will have to deal with the discord it sows with your spouse. That is the consequence of that sin. But with God, He will also help you with bringing you and your spouse back together again.

Ok I don't believe Jesus died for my sins so I'll skip that.

You didn't answer my question. If a Christian, who believes what you believe, decides to murder or steal or whatever and they die the next day, how are they held accountable for that sin?

 

[Lisa]

Ok I don't believe Jesus died for my sins so I'll skip that.

You didn't answer my question. If a Christian, who believes what you believe, decides to murder or steal or whatever and they die the next day, how are they held accountable for that sin?

I’m still waiting on the answer to my Paul question...I’ll let you answer that one first.

 

[DesertRose]

“Then the factions differed [concerning Jesus] from among them, so woe to those who disbelieved – from the scene of a tremendous Day.”(Qur’an 19:37).

Christianity of Jesus or Christianity of Paul?
http://www.islamforchristians.com/christianity-of-jesus-or-christianity-of-paul/

 

[Haich]

I don’t think its total and utter hogwash, I do believe its true, there are apparently many ways of jihad..making babies to have a majority is one of them.

As a woman, islam offends me yes. As a Christian, trying to fool people that you believe in Jesus too is offensive as well as saying all Biblical characters are muslim when they clearly weren’t. Lying is offensive to anyone.

Its a mean world we live in Haich.

Yh ok I'm sorry but I cant even entertain half of what you said because it's so absurd. You cant honestly believe everything you hear in the media! Have you ever interacted with muslims or been to a mosque? All this venom is going to eat you up and I think this misdirected anger you have is a real problem. Maybe get some counselling...

You can only take offence to another view point if you're threatened by it. You say you're threatened by islam because 'sharia law and jihady babies are coming to the US' but I think you're threatened by it because you aren't entirely at peace with the lord you claim to serve. There's something in your soul which is flinching and the only thing you can do to address it is lash out at Islam because it's the one thing that causes you to flinch and challenges your doctrine.

The questions muslims ask you burn your soul because the reassurances you have given yourself may have worked in your mind but not your heart.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

But it doesn't, hardly!

And even if it one does sin, which is inevitable, then is he punished? What happens to the Christian sinner?

How is sin accounted for?

If you want to engage with this one @Haich i suggest checking out Romans 5, 6,7 and 8....

As that is a tall order, you can listen to it from 18:20 onwards to get the context (saves you having to read my paraphrased explanation!)

 

[Haich]

I’m still waiting on the answer to my Paul question...I’ll let you answer that one first.

Paul? He never met Jesus so why should I trust a word he says? I don't accept his teachings and it's as simple as that.

I only accept what Jesus says.

 

[Lisa]

“Then the factions differed [concerning Jesus] from among them, so woe to those who disbelieved – from the scene of a tremendous Day.”(Qur’an 19:37).

Christianity of Jesus or Christianity of Paul?
http://www.islamforchristians.com/christianity-of-jesus-or-christianity-of-paul/

Is this what you are talking about?

Galatians‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!​

‭‭

 

[Haich]

If you want to engage with this one @Haich i suggest checking out Romans 5, 6,7 and 8....

As that is a tall order, you can listen to it from 18:20 onwards to get the context (saves you having to read my paraphrased explanation!)

A bit of a romanticized explanation!

 

[Lisa]

Yh ok I'm sorry but I cant even entertain half of what you said because it's so absurd. You cant honestly believe everything you hear in the media! Have you ever interacted with muslims or been to a mosque? All this venom is going to eat you up and I think this misdirected anger you have is a real problem. Maybe get some counselling...

You can only take offence to another view point if you're threatened by it. You say you're threatened by islam because 'sharia law and jihady babies are coming to the US' but I think you're threatened by it because you aren't entirely at peace with the lord you claim to serve. There's something in your soul which is flinching and the only thing you can do to address it is lash out at Islam because it's the one thing that causes you to flinch and challenges your doctrine.

The questions muslims ask you burn your soul because the reassurances you have given yourself may have worked in your mind but not your heart.

What venom? I was just stating a fact...

Ya..that’s not it...I’m not lashing out, just stating what I know.

 

[Haich]

@Red Sky at Morning
So can a Christian enter hell?

 

[Haich]

What venom? I was just stating a fact...

Ya..that’s not it...I’m not lashing out, just stating what I know.

You remind of my students.

'Miss love island is the best show ever facts are facts!!!!'

A fact can't be proceeded by an opinion.

 

[DesertRose]

Is this what you are talking about?

no this:
“O People of the Scripture, why do you argue about Abraham while the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed until after him? Then will you not reason? Here you are – those who have argued about that of which you have [some] knowledge, but why do you argue about that of which you have no knowledge? And Allah knows, while you know not. Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah]. And he was not of the polytheists. Indeed, the most worthy of Abraham among the people are those who followed him [in submission to Allah] and this prophet, and those who believe [in his message]. And Allah is the ally of the believers”. (3-65-68).

(When Prophet Jesus peace be upon him descends he will correct the distortions to His message):

“And when the son of Mary was presented as an example, immediately your people laughed aloud. And they said, “Are your gods better, or is he?” They did not present the comparison except for [mere] argument. But, [in fact], they are a people prone to dispute. Jesus was not but a servant upon whom We bestowed favor, and We made him an example for the Children of Israel. And if We willed, We could have made [instead] of you angels succeeding [one another] on the earth. And indeed, Jesus will be [a sign for] knowledge of the Hour, so be not in doubt of it, and follow Me. This is a straight path.” (43:57-61)"

“O People, if you should be in doubt about the Resurrection, then [consider that] indeed, We created you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then from a clinging clot, and then from a lump of flesh, formed and unformed – that We may show you. And We settle in the wombs whom We will for a specified term, then We bring you out as a child, and then [We develop you] that you may reach your [time of] maturity. And among you is he who is taken in [early] death, and among you is he who is returned to the most decrepit [old] age so that he knows, after [once having] knowledge, nothing”.(22:5)

“O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah, witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do. ” (5:8)

 

[Lisa]

Paul? He never met Jesus so why should I trust a word he says? I don't accept his teachings and it's as simple as that.

I only accept what Jesus says.

I see. You would be wrong in thinking that Paul never met Jesus.

You believe this then?

John‬ ‭14:6‬ ‭
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.”​

‭‭

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Red Sky at Morning
So can a Christian enter hell?

I think it possible for a Christian to have a vision of Hell, but I don’t think Christians go to Hell, no.

 

[Serveto]

They’re pointing out that within Islam, there’s infighting about what is even true. While you don’t view it is accurate, many others do. either way, you’re focusing on a kernel, saying that piece is hurting how ppl view Islam- but you’re completely glossing over the fact that the very basic, unarguable, foundations are rooted in the acts of a tyrannical, blood thirsty, abuse condoning, ‘women are property’, self professed prophet. Supporting Islam means you’re supporting the very foundations of it that are diabolical. But, being a Muslim is a huge part of your identity, and the belief of your entire source of your support system- both in community and family. For that reason alone, it’s almost impossible to look objectively at Islam instead of automatically defending it- regardless of what you’re defending. If a belief system can’t withstand facts, and ppl wholeheartedly believes things like Abraham going to Mecca with zero historical proof, that’s a serious issue. You may be an incredibly kind person and a peaceful Muslim, but you claim allegiance and vigorously defend a religion that isn’t a ‘religion of peace’. It’s a complete contradiction, and no amount of trying to ignore the foundations of it will ever change those foundations. It’s a religion based on works ‘balancing out sin’, but the ‘moral basis’ that defines what is right and wrong was decided by an actual war lord.

Speaking of religions being founded, and I might add promoted, by "war lords," I think Christianity, the one I was born into, can be downright schizoid, at times, and it's little wonder to me that there is a radical, "post-modern," largely feminist movement afoot to be done with the Abrahamic "patriarchy," or patriarchies, plural, all of them: Judaism, Christianity and Islam, in the interests of women who have been historically subjugated by and to them.

Here is an example of the schizophrenia, for lack of a better, less controversial, word. King David, the warrior king and reputed writer of Psalms, fresh from his slaughter of Philistines, is met by what I assume are the daughters of Zion, who sing this memorable song as homage:

"And the women answered one another as they played, and said, Saul hath slain his thousands, and David his ten thousands."
(1 Sam 18:7)​

Regardless of Christianity's pacifism, or, as I see it, the lip-service some Christians pay to pacifism, Orthodox Jews, as I understand, are busy making way for the new "son of David," the one whose kingdom, unlike that of the pacifist Jesus', is very much of this world. It might be time to brush the dust from the sheet music of this above song and play it again, in Jerusalem.

Well, I don’t know that they pick on me because I am a Christian, but many people in the years I’ve been here have liked to argue with me, how do you think I became a superstar? No one was as surprised as I was over that, honestly. Thought I’d say what I thought and would be ignored, but no.

Have you considered the possibility that, though you usually wrap your statements in the seemingly respectable talit of scripture, you sometimes get off on the adrenaline rush of constantly opposing and being opposed? I have not only noticed but also commented, not necessarily accurately, I might add, because I often make mistakes as well, that, when you aren't busy inciting Muslims in this and the previous board's forum, you turn and bite into your fellow Christians, those who don't seem to pass your doctrinal litmus test, at any rate. If, by chance, you do enjoy the adrenaline rush, I might suggest another fun, somewhat related activity: bungee jumping from old, sufficiently tall railroad truss bridges in the Sierra Nevada Mountains of California .

 

[Lisa]

no this:
“O People of the Scripture, why do you argue about Abraham while the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed until after him? Then will you not reason? Here you are – those who have argued about that of which you have [some] knowledge, but why do you argue about that of which you have no knowledge? And Allah knows, while you know not. Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah]. And he was not of the polytheists. Indeed, the most worthy of Abraham among the people are those who followed him [in submission to Allah] and this prophet, and those who believe [in his message]. And Allah is the ally of the believers”. (3-65-68).

(When Prophet Jesus peace be upon him descends he will correct the distortions to His message):

“And when the son of Mary was presented as an example, immediately your people laughed aloud. And they said, “Are your gods better, or is he?” They did not present the comparison except for [mere] argument. But, [in fact], they are a people prone to dispute. Jesus was not but a servant upon whom We bestowed favor, and We made him an example for the Children of Israel. And if We willed, We could have made [instead] of you angels succeeding [one another] on the earth. And indeed, Jesus will be [a sign for] knowledge of the Hour, so be not in doubt of it, and follow Me. This is a straight path.” (43:57-61)"

“O People, if you should be in doubt about the Resurrection, then [consider that] indeed, We created you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then from a clinging clot, and then from a lump of flesh, formed and unformed – that We may show you. And We settle in the wombs whom We will for a specified term, then We bring you out as a child, and then [We develop you] that you may reach your [time of] maturity. And among you is he who is taken in [early] death, and among you is he who is returned to the most decrepit [old] age so that he knows, after [once having] knowledge, nothing”.(22:5)

“O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah, witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do. ” (5:8)

I’m sorry but islam is wrong..Ishmael and his descendants have nothing to do with God’s covenant. And your god is not the God. Your god’s scriptures aren’t the one true God’s scriptures. You have a different gospel.

 

[Haich]

I think it possible for a Christian to have a vision of Hell, but I don’t think Christians go to Hell, no.

So it is the belief in jesus that saves you?

So then may I ask, if you're saved from the fire then what is the point in doing good?

 

[Haich]

I see. You would be wrong in thinking that Paul never met Jesus.

You believe this then?

John‬ ‭14:6‬ ‭​

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.”​

‭‭

It was an unsubstantiated vision. I don't believe he met jesus.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

So it is the belief in jesus that saves you?

So then may I ask, if you're saved from the fire then what is the point in doing good?

If somebody saved you from the fire by their own suffering, would you perhaps have a change of heart and begin to care about the standards that mattered to them?

 

[Lisa]

Have you considered the possibility that, though you usually wrap your statements in the seemingly respectable talit of scripture, you sometimes get off on the adrenaline rush of constantly opposing and being opposed? I have not only noticed but also commented, not necessarily accurately, I might add, because I often make mistakes as well, that, when you aren't busy inciting Muslims in this and the previous board's forum, you turn and bite into your fellow Christians, those who don't seem to pass your doctrinal litmus test, at any rate. If, by chance, you do enjoy the adrenaline rush, I might suggest another fun, somewhat related activity: bungee jumping from old, sufficiently tall railroad truss bridges in the Sierra Nevada Mountains of California .

Terribly afraid of heights and bungee’s so that wouldn’t work for me.

The reason I bring scripture into anything is because that’s where I get a lot of what I believe...so why wouldn’t I bring it in?

I don’t try to be opposed, but try to clarify what I’m saying thinking that that might help..but it never does. I am just a naturally opposable person I guess?

It’s easy to incite the muslims, they can’t believe anyone could think any thing is wrong with their religion and they go on the defensive. I happen to think a lot is wrong with islam, so that will always seem to pit me against them. I don’t necessarily do it through Christianity unless they start to bring up that Ishmael has a part in the covenant or that their god is the same as our God, but as a woman and not liking what I see of women in islam which concerns me as a woman watching women being erased and demeaned to maybe having to one day see that happen in my world here.

As for biting my fellow Christians here..truth matters.