No regard...for the desire of women

manama

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-I’ve heard from numerous Muslims that culture & Islam are essentially one in the same.
Uh no?

-Christianity absolutely brings freedom- just look at the US. It was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, not founded on REJECTING Christianity, and we’re the freest country in the world. Ppl talk smack about the US *while* they’re trying to seek asylum from the destructive prison of their culture’s own doing from some Muslim sects. Also, Christianity is centuries older than Islam, so how would Islam be the OG of ‘freeing women’?
Again none of it is about Christianity's teachings but rather the current "Freedom" the user was bragging about. Last time I checked divorce and abortions among other things weren't legalized by reciting the bible.

Everything else with the rest of your post is so wrong, islam doesn't promise "virgins", we don't worship the "black box" and so on and thats enough to tell me how much you are even educated about islam. You also went ahead and called the prophet a p***phile despite us saying again and again that Aisha's age was 19 at nikkah, 20 at marriage and also how the "9 yo" hadith thing was spread around by leaders trying to hijack faith. Honestly, if you are going to come at us, atleast try to not use the stuff people who don't know anything about any religion use while telling people to "go back to isis".
 

manama

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If you want to compare islam and christianity or play a pointless game of Jesus vs Muhammad despite the fact that we love Jesus a.s and so did Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. Feel free to make a new thread, maybe someone will take the bait.
 

Todd

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Alright i'll be waiting for the study on how women who have kids are happier than women who don't.
My wife and I own a business doing in home elderly care and I can tell you elderly people who have kids are much happier than those who don’t.
 

manama

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My wife and I own a business doing in home elderly care and I can tell you elderly people who have kids are much happier than those who don’t.
But we aren't talking about elders. The study is about young women. There is a difference when youre in your 20s-40s with friends and a career etc compared to when you are in your 70s onwards and most of your relatives and dead and grandkids are keeping you going.
 

Swiftturtle

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Uh no?

****Uh, yes. Again, this is clearly an in-house issue bc the head doesn’t know what the tail is doing. *****
Again none of it is about Christianity's teachings but rather the current "Freedom" the user was bragging about. Last time I checked divorce and abortions among other things weren't legalized by reciting the bible.

Everything else with the rest of your post is so wrong, islam doesn't promise "virgins", we don't worship the "black box" and so on and thats enough to tell me how much you are even educated about islam. You also went ahead and called the prophet a p***phile despite us saying again and again that Aisha's age was 19 at nikkah, 20 at marriage and also how the "9 yo" hadith thing was spread around by leaders trying to hijack faith. Honestly, if you are going to come at us, atleast try to not use the stuff people who don't know anything about any religion use while telling people to "go back to isis".
-you didn’t answer my questions about rampant abuse, or how that’s ‘freedom’ for women in Islam.

-you didn’t cite the alleged ‘contradictions’ you were saying existed

-you didn’t cite where science and the Bible doesn’t align like you adamantly claimed

-you’re telling me I’m in the wrong and ‘don’t know anything’ bc the virgins and the age of his 9yr old wife are disputed claims between MUSLIMS and OTHER MUSLIMS? Seriously? Again- then that’s an in-house issue that you’re yelling at the neighbors for. Multiple wives, sold Christian and Jewish women & kids as slaves, but the 9 yr old thing never happened bc you’re on the side of the argument that doesn’t believe it? K.

-you pray towards, and bow down to, a rock inside a black box. Have you ever even researched the pagan black boxes? I read a historians paper where he linked it all together. Step outside of what you’ve always been told and pragmatically research why a black box in Mecca is something you pray towards.

-You didn’t answer any of my points. You simply say ‘You know nothing’.... I’ve researched it a lot, actually. I didn’t know a ton about it when my cousin married a Muslim, so w/the exception of wasting time memorizing the rants and ravings of an abusive war lord, I’ve spent years reading, watching debates, and listening to talks.

Now, AGAIN, bc you ignored it all:

-God never showed any acknowledgment to confirm Muhammed was actually a prophet, yes or no?

-Muhammed slaughtered tons of Jews & Christians for not converting. Do you believe that was ok? Do you think all ‘infidels’ should be killed? Even my having to ask those questions shows how ‘peaceful’ Islam is.

-Muhammed never performed any miracles- heal any blind ppl? Raise anyone from the dead? Walk on water? Feed 5,000ppl with a meal meant for 4 ppl? All those accidental knicks from swords Im sure he got on his fingers when he was chopping off heads- did he heal his skin right up? Bc I bet those were pesky, and surely as God’s ‘chosen prophet’ paper cuts were no match for his healing powers...wait, he didn’t have any

-Muhammed copied parts of the Bible to try and sway Jews & Christians into his religion when he first self proclaimed that he was a special prophet...does having to copy another religions divine scriptures scream ‘legit prophet’ to you?

-Women’s freedom, right? Do you agree with these verses?

Quran (2:282) - Establishes that a woman's testimony is worth only half that of a man's in court.

Quran (24:4) - "And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses, flog them..." Strictly speaking, this verse addresses adultery (revealed at the very time that Muhammad's favorite wife was being accused of adultery on the basis of only three witnesses coincidentally enough). However it is a part of the theological underpinning of the Sharia rule on r*pe, since strict Islamic law does not recognize r*pe if there are not four male witnesses or a confession.

Quran (24:13) - "Why did they not bring four witnesses of it? But as they have not brought witnesses they are liars before Allah."

Quran (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." There is no such thing as r*pe in marriage, as a man is permitted unrestricted sexual access to his wives.


-I definitely never told you, or anyone, to ‘go back to ISIS’. That you would even throw that out and link it to my name in a response is disgusting.

-Do you believe in Sharia law? Bc that’s definitely not ‘freedom’

-You live your whole life trying to ‘earn’ a place in heaven? Jesus was well documented, as was the crucifixion. He says “it’s not by works” that we are saved, but by “grace through faith” and accepting Him as our savior. You’re going to gamble your soul and bet on a self professed violent prophet that God never recognized, & who never performed a miracle, instead of a well documented, divine Jesus Christ? You’re not even going to question it or research it? You aren’t going to even pray “God, father of Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob- reveal to me what is true, and what is of you”?

-Read the Bible’s version of heaven- it’s obvious that it’s grand beyond our wildest imaginations. Read the Quran’s version of heaven- does it sound like a holy revelation, or a 4 star trip to Florida bc a human wrote it with no divine inspiration?
Here, I’ll help:
"They will recline (with ease) on Thrones (of dignity) arranged in ranks..." (52:20).
"They and their associates will be in groves of (cool) shade, reclining on Thrones (of dignity). Every fruit (enjoyment) will be there for them; they shall have whatever they call for" (36:56–57).
"In a lofty Paradise, where they shall neither hear harmful speech nor falsehood. Therein will be a running spring. Therein will be thrones raised high, and cups set at hand. And cushions set in rows, and rich carpets (all) spread out" (88:10–16)


Rich carpets, and the seats have cushions?! Why didn’t you say so? that’s worth abuse and counting as half the worth of a man! Wait......no...

So, the gist is: You are following the teachings of a man that said he was a prophet with no instances of any confirmation from God, couldn’t do healings/miracles, was a war lord, believed women are worth half of a man, abuse is A-OK, violence is totally fine, r*pe isn’t r*pe, and you *might* get to heaven through works? You are literally betting your soul on the teachings of the man described above, w/no doubt in your mind, and truly believe he ‘gave women freedom’?
 

manama

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-you didn’t answer my questions about rampant abuse, or how that’s ‘freedom’ for women in Islam.

-you didn’t cite the alleged ‘contradictions’ you were saying existed

-you didn’t cite where science and the Bible doesn’t align like you adamantly claimed

-you’re telling me I’m in the wrong and ‘don’t know anything’ bc the virgins and the age of his 9yr old wife are disputed claims between MUSLIMS and OTHER MUSLIMS? Seriously? Again- then that’s an in-house issue that you’re yelling at the neighbors for. Multiple wives, sold Christian and Jewish women & kids as slaves, but the 9 yr old thing never happened bc you’re on the side of the argument that doesn’t believe it? K.

-you pray towards, and bow down to, a rock inside a black box. Have you ever even researched the pagan black boxes? I read a historians paper where he linked it all together. Step outside of what you’ve always been told and pragmatically research why a black box in Mecca is something you pray towards.

-You didn’t answer any of my points. You simply say ‘You know nothing’.... I’ve researched it a lot, actually. I didn’t know a ton about it when my cousin married a Muslim, so w/the exception of wasting time memorizing the rants and ravings of an abusive war lord, I’ve spent years reading, watching debates, and listening to talks.

Now, AGAIN, bc you ignored it all:

-God never showed any acknowledgment to confirm Muhammed was actually a prophet, yes or no?

-Muhammed slaughtered tons of Jews & Christians for not converting. Do you believe that was ok? Do you think all ‘infidels’ should be killed? Even my having to ask those questions shows how ‘peaceful’ Islam is.

-Muhammed never performed any miracles- heal any blind ppl? Raise anyone from the dead? Walk on water? Feed 5,000ppl with a meal meant for 4 ppl? All those accidental knicks from swords Im sure he got on his fingers when he was chopping off heads- did he heal his skin right up? Bc I bet those were pesky, and surely as God’s ‘chosen prophet’ paper cuts were no match for his healing powers...wait, he didn’t have any

-Muhammed copied parts of the Bible to try and sway Jews & Christians into his religion when he first self proclaimed that he was a special prophet...does having to copy another religions divine scriptures scream ‘legit prophet’ to you?

-Women’s freedom, right? Do you agree with these verses?

Quran (2:282) - Establishes that a woman's testimony is worth only half that of a man's in court.

Quran (24:4) - "And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses, flog them..." Strictly speaking, this verse addresses adultery (revealed at the very time that Muhammad's favorite wife was being accused of adultery on the basis of only three witnesses coincidentally enough). However it is a part of the theological underpinning of the Sharia rule on r*pe, since strict Islamic law does not recognize r*pe if there are not four male witnesses or a confession.

Quran (24:13) - "Why did they not bring four witnesses of it? But as they have not brought witnesses they are liars before Allah."

Quran (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." There is no such thing as r*pe in marriage, as a man is permitted unrestricted sexual access to his wives.

-I definitely never told you, or anyone, to ‘go back to ISIS’. That you would even throw that out and link it to my name in a response is disgusting.

-Do you believe in Sharia law? Bc that’s definitely not ‘freedom’

-You live your whole life trying to ‘earn’ a place in heaven? Jesus was well documented, as was the crucifixion. He says “it’s not by works” that we are saved, but by “grace through faith” and accepting Him as our savior. You’re going to gamble your soul and bet on a self professed violent prophet that God never recognized, & who never performed a miracle, instead of a well documented, divine Jesus Christ? You’re not even going to question it or research it? You aren’t going to even pray “God, father of Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob- reveal to me what is true, and what is of you”?

-Read the Bible’s version of heaven- it’s obvious that it’s grand beyond our wildest imaginations. Read the Quran’s version of heaven- does it sound like a holy revelation, or a 4 star trip to Florida bc a human wrote it with no divine inspiration?
Here, I’ll help:
"They will recline (with ease) on Thrones (of dignity) arranged in ranks..." (52:20).
"They and their associates will be in groves of (cool) shade, reclining on Thrones (of dignity). Every fruit (enjoyment) will be there for them; they shall have whatever they call for" (36:56–57).
"In a lofty Paradise, where they shall neither hear harmful speech nor falsehood. Therein will be a running spring. Therein will be thrones raised high, and cups set at hand. And cushions set in rows, and rich carpets (all) spread out" (88:10–16)


Rich carpets, and the seats have cushions?! Why didn’t you say so? that’s worth abuse and counting as half the worth of a man! Wait......no...

So, the gist is: You are following the teachings of a man that said he was a prophet with no instances of any confirmation from God, couldn’t do healings/miracles, was a war lord, believed women are worth half of a man, abuse is A-OK, violence is totally fine, r*pe isn’t r*pe, and you *might* get to heaven through works? You are literally betting your soul on the teachings of the man described above, w/no doubt in your mind, and truly believe he ‘gave women freedom’?
Im debating whether its worth a reply and no its not. Life is too short to repeat things that can be answered by 2 minutes of google,
 

Swiftturtle

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Im debating whether its worth a reply and no its not. Life is too short to repeat things that can be answered by 2 minutes of google,
Oh man, isn’t lying a sin in Islam? I mean, r*pe isn’t, but is lying? I asked YOUR opinions about facts in Islam. Why aren’t you jumping at the chance to confirm and praise these parts of Islam?

You don’t want to answer my questions bc you’d have to actually confirm the abuse, r*pe, violence, and defend the man who put it in his religion. You’d have to acknowledge that you’re putting your soul into the hands of a war lord, that God never acknowledged, instead of the loving gospel of Jesus that is *beyond* well documented, even by ppl that hated him and didn’t like the equality and kindness he had for women.
 

manama

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Oh man, isn’t lying a sin in Islam? I mean, r*pe isn’t, but is lying? I asked YOUR opinions about facts in Islam. Why aren’t you jumping at the chance to confirm and praise these parts of Islam?

You don’t want to answer my questions bc you’d have to actually confirm the abuse, r*pe, violence, and defend the man who put it in his religion. You’d have to acknowledge that you’re putting your soul into the hands of a war lord, that God never acknowledged, instead of the loving gospel of Jesus that is *beyond* well documented, even by ppl that hated him and didn’t like the equality and kindness he had for women.
:rolleyes:
 

Swiftturtle

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Oof, the eye roll. I know it’s disappointing that the questions I asked were factually based, and an opinion agreeing with Islam’s POV regarding each question would be absolute lunacy and depravity when it’s not cloaked by an echo chamber that pretends it’s not in Islam, but you weren’t going to disagree with any of it either, bc then that’s going against the core beliefs of a religion you practice. If you’d publicly agreed that things weren’t okay, like: “I don’t believe a woman is worth half that of a man” or “I don’t agree with the Quran saying ‘r*pe isn’t r*pe’” then what a juxtaposition...

And, I know It was easy to blame Christians for ‘disinfo,’ but in the process of trying to validate your stance you revealed the discrepancies originated within Islam itself, Muslim scholar vs Muslim scholar. They can’t give definitive answers, so you blamed Christians for the Muslim scholar’s inability to reach the same conclusions from the same text- awwwkward. But, it’s okay, nobody is perfect (except Jesus...)

This next stage is going to be hard, bc you’ll feel unexplainable, random pings in the back of your mind moving forward as you start noticing the horrific, factual parts of Islam, that have always been around- without a rose-colored glasses view. You love the pieces of your faith that suit you, so it’s a hard place to be.... You might try to dig into Islam more to search for caveats to justify part of those questions, or dig into the Bible to try and find fault in the gospel (even though scholars have tried to find contradictions, or historical inaccuracies, for centuries)...whatever the case, you can’t feign ignorance regarding Islam's anti-women anti- ‘freedom’, ownership, abuse or mass violence that are in the core beliefs of Islam. Supporting a belief system with those foundations....man. I hope you seek out the gospel and realize the difference between Jesus’ proven, perfect love and Muhammad’s *self* declaration that he was a prophet (that never received even a small sign from God confirming his story to ppl) while endorsing abuse and mass slaughter.
Nabeel struggled with the same realization, and he has a ton of videos addressing Islam & his conversion.
 

JoChris

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Everything else with the rest of your post is so wrong, islam doesn't promise "virgins".....
Surah Ad Dukhan [Sahih International version]
56:35 Indeed, We have produced the women of Paradise in a [new] creation
36 And made them virgins,
37 Devoted [to their husbands] and of equal age,
we don't worship the "black box" ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone
The stone was venerated at the Kaaba in pre-Islamic pagan times. According to Islamic tradition, it was set intact into the Kaaba's wall by the prophet Muhammad in 605 CE, five years before his first revelation. Since then it has been broken into fragments and is now cemented into a silver frame in the side of the Kaaba. Its physical appearance is that of a fragmented dark rock, polished smooth by the hands of pilgrims. Islamic tradition holds that it fell from heaven as a guide for Adam and Eve to build an altar. It has often been described as a meteorite.[2]

Muslim pilgrims circle the Kaaba as a part of the tawaf ritual during the hajj and many try to stop and kiss the Black Stone, emulating the kiss that Islamic tradition records that it received from Muhammad.[3][4] Muslims do not worship the Black Stone.[5][6]


Do you say Roman Catholics worship Mary? They claim they don't worship her either (they call it veneration).... their actions say otherwise. I was brought up RC. In practice we prayed to Mary, not Jesus or God the Father.

Muslims certainly give excessive honour to the black stone for a group that claims to worship Allah alone, just like RCs do to Mary.
I think technically you are right, but it is hairsplitting just like the RCs.

Aisha's age was 19 at nikkah,
Aishah said: “The Messenger of Allah married me when I was six years old. Then we came to Al-Madinah and settled among Banu Harith bin Khazraj. I became ill and my hair fell out, then it grew back and became abundant. My mother Umm Ruman came to me while I was on an Urjuhah with some of my friends, and called for me. I went to her, and I did not know what she wanted. She took me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house, and I was panting. When I got my breath back, she took some water and wiped my face and head, and led me into the house. There were some woman of the Ansar inside the house, and they said: 'With blessings and good fortune (from Allah).' (My mother) handed me over to them and they tidied me up. And suddenly I saw the Messenger of Allah in the morning. And she handed me over to him and I was at that time, nine years old.”

حَدَّثَنَا سُوَيْدُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا عَلِيُّ بْنُ مُسْهِرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا هِشَامُ بْنُ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، قَالَتْ تَزَوَّجَنِي رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ وَأَنَا بِنْتُ سِتِّ سِنِينَ فَقَدِمْنَا الْمَدِينَةَ فَنَزَلْنَا فِي بَنِي الْحَارِثِ بْنِ الْخَزْرَجِ فَوُعِكْتُ فَتَمَرَّقَ شَعَرِي حَتَّى وَفَى لَهُ جُمَيْمَةٌ فَأَتَتْنِي أُمِّي أُمُّ رُومَانَ وَإِنِّي لَفِي أُرْجُوحَةٍ وَمَعِي صَوَاحِبَاتٌ لِي فَصَرَخَتْ بِي فَأَتَيْتُهَا وَمَا أَدْرِي مَا تُرِيدُ فَأَخَذَتْ بِيَدِي فَأَوْقَفَتْنِي عَلَى بَابِ الدَّارِ وَإِنِّي لأَنْهَجُ حَتَّى سَكَنَ بَعْضُ نَفَسِي ثُمَّ أَخَذَتْ شَيْئًا مِنْ مَاءٍ فَمَسَحَتْ بِهِ عَلَى وَجْهِي وَرَأْسِي ثُمَّ أَدْخَلَتْنِي الدَّارَ فَإِذَا نِسْوَةٌ مِنَ الأَنْصَارِ فِي بَيْتٍ فَقُلْنَ عَلَى الْخَيْرِ وَالْبَرَكَةِ وَعَلَى خَيْرِ طَائِرٍ ‏.‏ فَأَسْلَمَتْنِي إِلَيْهِنَّ فَأَصْلَحْنَ مِنْ شَأْنِي فَلَمْ يَرُعْنِي إِلاَّ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ ضُحًى ‏.‏ فَأَسْلَمَتْنِي إِلَيْهِ وَأَنَا يَوْمَئِذٍ بِنْتُ تِسْعِ سِنِينَ ‏.‏

Grade: Sahih (Darussalam)

English reference : Vol. 3, Book 9, Hadith 1876Arabic reference : Book 9, Hadith 1950

----
NIKKAH: In Muslim law, absent some statutory derogation, a person is able to get married once they attain the age of puberty. This is based on a statement in the Koran that, to quote from Pearl and Menski:

http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/N/Nikah.aspx

1. A normal woman attains puberty by 15 years old.
2. The timeline says Aisha was born 613/614 AD, but married Muhammad in 620 AD.
Can you Muslims do basic maths?!!!

If you genuinely believed what you typed you must have lied to since you were tiny.
If you are lying by omission you should be ashamed of yourself. You are disobeying one of the 10 commandments.

Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Lying about your religion to deceive others is a terrible sin.
 

DesertRose

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sis manama may I make a suggestion do not waste your time with these peeps...
Let them consume their lives with hatred. Your life will be more pleasant.
Their efforts will NOT stop people from being guided to Islam, thankfully.

"in all U.S. states, the age of consent has widely varied across the country in the past. In 1880, the age of consent was set at 10 or 12 in most states, with the exception of Delaware where it was 7.[2] The ages of consent were raised across the U.S. during the late 19th century and the early 20th century.."
Customs have changed and the teenage period has been constructed during our modern era

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States

Why does a person becoming Muslim? Here are some reasons:
A Christian Minister's Conversion to Islam - Dr. Jerald Dirks on TheDeenShow (Part 1)


After 10 years Christian accepts Islam becomes Muslim now fasting for Ramadan

 

manama

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sis manama may I make a suggestion do not waste your time with these peeps...
Let them consume their lives with hatred. Your life will be more pleasant.
Their efforts will NOT stop people from being guided to Islam, thankfully.

"in all U.S. states, the age of consent has widely varied across the country in the past. In 1880, the age of consent was set at 10 or 12 in most states, with the exception of Delaware where it was 7.[2] The ages of consent were raised across the U.S. during the late 19th century and the early 20th century.."
Customs have changed and the teenage period has been constructed during our modern era

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States

Why does a person becoming Muslim? Here are some reasons:
A Christian Minister's Conversion to Islam - Dr. Jerald Dirks on TheDeenShow (Part 1)


After 10 years Christian accepts Islam becomes Muslim now fasting for Ramadan

What I find hilarious is that these are questions that were answered. If they bothered using the search function they'd go right back to the threads made about these topics. And yet they are reposting as if they are being "blunt" and "to the point". No, they aren't being blunt, they are wasting time and we just can not entertain the same person for the millionth time because we have lives.
 

manama

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Don't excuse us of lying just because your memory sucks. You don't see us re-asking the questions about Christianity that you have already answered whether or not we agree with those answers.
 

Swiftturtle

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What I find hilarious is that these are questions that were answered. If they bothered using the search function they'd go right back to the threads made about these topics. And yet they are reposting as if they are being "blunt" and "to the point". No, they aren't being blunt, they are wasting time and we just can not entertain the same person for the millionth time because we have lives.
I asked your OPINION. Once again, OPINION. If you agree or not with the central foundations of Islam. You literally refuse to go through and say if you agree or not. You didn’t even know the black box was a Pagan symbol and you BOW DOWN TO IT IN PRAYER. Your own scholars can’t agree on what some parts mean, and Muhammed declaring himself a prophet, jacking scripture from the Bible bc God clearly wasn’t giving him any divine teachings or blessings, would literally be referred to as a cult in 2019.
 
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Swiftturtle

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Jul 17, 2019
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338
sis manama may I make a suggestion do not waste your time with these peeps...
Let them consume their lives with hatred. Your life will be more pleasant.
Their efforts will NOT stop people from being guided to Islam, thankfully.

"in all U.S. states, the age of consent has widely varied across the country in the past. In 1880, the age of consent was set at 10 or 12 in most states, with the exception of Delaware where it was 7.[2] The ages of consent were raised across the U.S. during the late 19th century and the early 20th century.."
Customs have changed and the teenage period has been constructed during our modern era

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States

Why does a person becoming Muslim? Here are some reasons:
A Christian Minister's Conversion to Islam - Dr. Jerald Dirks on TheDeenShow (Part 1)


After 10 years Christian accepts Islam becomes Muslim now fasting for Ramadan

It’s not hatred, it’s like watching someone driving towards a sink hole and trying to say ‘wait!’.... so you agree then with women being half the worth of men? Condoned abuse? r*pe? honor killings? murdering all ‘infidels’? You hold a war lord murder machine ‘prophet’ in reverence?
 

manama

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I asked your OPINION. Once again, OPINION. If you agree or not with the central foundations of Islam. You literally refuse to go through and say if you agree or not. You didn’t even know the black box was a Pagan symbol and you BOW DOWN TO IT IN PRAYER. Your own scholars can’t agree on what some parts mean, and Muhammed declaring himself a prophet, jacking scripture from the Bible bc God clearly wasn’t giving him any divine teachings or blessings, would literally be referred to as a cult in 2019.
Make a new thread then.

Your ignorance shines through with you saying that the ka'aba is a pagan symbol when again and again we have answered that it was made by Abraham and converted into a pagan symbol AFTER him. You wouldve known this had you bothered searching up these topics in this exact forum because they have already been discussed. Its not us who don't know this stuff, its you who came a century later and expect us to go through everything all over again for you.
 

Swiftturtle

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Joined
Jul 17, 2019
Messages
338
Make a new thread then.

Your ignorance shines through with you saying that the ka'aba is a pagan symbol when again and again we have answered that it was made by Abraham and converted into a pagan symbol AFTER him. You wouldve known this had you bothered searching up these topics in this exact forum because they have already been discussed. Its not us who don't know this stuff, its you who came a century later and expect us to go through everything all over again for you.
You won’t say a simple ‘yes, I agree with the foundations of Islam’ or ‘no, I don’t agree.’ You made far reaching claims about stuff in the Bible and I broke it down one by one and asked for your source. You ignored it all. That wasn’t from ‘a century ago.’ Also- there’s zero proof or historical archives that mention Abraham ever even going to Mecca. 4 different cultures have historical documentation all about Christ’s life, but there’s zero evidence for Muhammad’s claims, but no proof of that, or the major parts of your faith that are horrific, seem to matter.
“What I have learned is that if a Muslim chooses to not acknowledge the legitimacy of what is written or stated, they will generally accuse the person of presenting “baseless accusations” or something similar. This charge is designed to shut down conversation and dialogue.”.... hmm, yup.
 

JoChris

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
6,168
I asked your OPINION. Once again, OPINION. If you agree or not with the central foundations of Islam. You literally refuse to go through and say if you agree or not. You didn’t even know the black box was a Pagan symbol and you BOW DOWN TO IT IN PRAYER. Your own scholars can’t agree on what some parts mean, and Muhammed declaring himself a prophet, jacking scripture from the Bible bc God clearly wasn’t giving him any divine teachings or blessings, would literally be referred to as a cult in 2019.
As you can see when Muslims are proved wrong they either manage to convince themselves we do it out of hatred (not love for our neighbour) or refuse to engage with us any further. [Cutting and pasting testimony clips doesn't even come close to an attempt as a defence.]

Resorting to accusations of hatred when shown the truth is exceptionally childish. Muslims: please for your own self respect's sake be prepared to actually defend your claims or stop making them!!!
 

JoChris

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
6,168
Make a new thread then.

Your ignorance shines through with you saying that the ka'aba is a pagan symbol when again and again we have answered that it was made by Abraham and converted into a pagan symbol AFTER him. You wouldve known this had you bothered searching up these topics in this exact forum because they have already been discussed. Its not us who don't know this stuff, its you who came a century later and expect us to go through everything all over again for you.
Where is the historical evidence that this ka'aba was made by Abraham? I do not remember reading about this ka'aba in the bible.

Christian viewpoint: https://www.answering-islam.org/authors/toler/abraham_kaaba.html
 

manama

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Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,827
Where is the historical evidence that this ka'aba was made by Abraham? I do not remember reading about this ka'aba in the bible.

Christian viewpoint: https://www.answering-islam.org/authors/toler/abraham_kaaba.html
Too bad, i don't follow the bible.
You won’t say a simple ‘yes, I agree with the foundations of Islam’ or ‘no, I don’t agree.’ You made far reaching claims about stuff in the Bible and I broke it down one by one and asked for your source. You ignored it all. That wasn’t from ‘a century ago.’ Also- there’s zero proof or historical archives that mention Abraham ever even going to Mecca. 4 different cultures have historical documentation all about Christ’s life, but there’s zero evidence for Muhammad’s claims, but no proof of that, or the major parts of your faith that are horrific, seem to matter.
“What I have learned is that if a Muslim chooses to not acknowledge the legitimacy of what is written or stated, they will generally accuse the person of presenting “baseless accusations” or something similar. This charge is designed to shut down conversation and dialogue.”.... hmm, yup.
I agree with Islam, i wouldn't be a Muslim otherwise. You just happen to be wrong about what is Islam and I can't entertain you because I have a life outside these forums.

I don't know what part of "I don't care" is hard to understand. Its like youre desperate to start shit. "Muslims vs Christians hehehe can't wait to prove them moslems wrong". I'm literally not interested nor do I care about the teachings of Christianity rather than forcing a debate, go talk to someone who cares.
 
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