Once Saved Always Saved?

[Lisa]

I am not fearful because I don’t believe in eternal damnation - so yes hell.

What do you do about these verses then?

“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
‭‭Matthew 10:28‬ ‭

“But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!”
‭‭Luke ‭12:5‬ ‭

 

[justjess]

1 Corinthians 15:22 New International Version (NIV)

22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.


You are assuming hell is some eternal seperate place. You are also ignoring gods nature and stated will. I posted an article explaining this better than I can. That’s all I have to say. Read it, really.

Here’s another one: http://campuspress.yale.edu/keithderose/1129-2/

Don’t act like I’m the only person on earth that ever believed the text of the Bible supported universal reconciliation. I’m not. It was common in the early church and there are tons of people historically and currently who believe the same.

 

[Lisa]

In

1 Corinthians 15:22 New International Version (NIV)

22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.


You are assuming hell is some eternal seperate place. You are also ignoring gods nature and stated will. I posted an article explaining this better than I can. That’s all I have to say. Read it, really.

Here’s another one: http://campuspress.yale.edu/keithderose/1129-2/

Don’t act like I’m the only person on earth that ever believed the text of the Bible supported universal reconciliation. I’m not. It was common in the early church and there are tons of people historically and currently who believe the same.

In case you don’t know...the red letters are the words of Jesus. Why do you think Jesus would say that if it weren’t true?

I’m not ignoring God’s nature, Paul tells us...
“Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.”
‭‭Romans 11:22‬ ‭

God is serious about hating sin, yes He loves us which is why He took our punishment for sin, but sin is a serious issue with God, so serious that if you don’t take His offer of salvation, you will indeed end up in the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I don’t care if others believe the same thing you do, I’m talking to you.

 

[Todd]

The deception of humanistic love and ecumenism...sounds good to people but it isn’t Biblical.

How is Christian Universalism humanistic love? It's all about God's infinite love. The idea of eternal damnation came from the limited love of humans. And what's wrong with ecumenism? Jesus prayed for ecumensim. John 17:20-23

 

[Allegra]

For someone who doesn’t even believe in God, they sure have a lot to say to stir up the discussion among Christians.

 

[Todd]

For someone who doesn’t even believe in God, they sure have a lot to say to stir up the discussion among Christians.

Who here in this discussion doesn't believe in God?

 

[Lisa]

How is Christian Universalism humanistic love? It's all about God's infinite love

You’ve answered your own question.

 

[Allegra]

Who here in this discussion doesn't believe in God?

Justjess. I used to read her posts in other thread and she doesn’t seem to believe in God. Or she does but idk, her other posts clearly show she doesn’t believe in God.

Or if she believes then probably I was dreaming lol

 

[Todd]

Justjess. I used to read her posts in other thread and she doesn’t seem to believe in God. Or she does but idk, her other posts clearly show she doesn’t believe in God.

Or if she believes then probably I was dreaming lol

You must have been dreaming LOL!
@justjess believes in God and believes that Jesus was the Messiah, the Christ. She just doesn't believe the way the "Christian" church interprets the Bible. She believes many of the same things I believe. I.e. not trinitarian and does not believe in eternal damnation.

 

[Allegra]

You must have been dreaming LOL!
@justjess believes in God and believes that Jesus was the Messiah, the Christ. She just doesn't believe the way the "Christian" church interprets the Bible. She believes many of the same things I believe. I.e. not trinitarian and does not believe in eternal damnation.

Oh well thanks clearing that up.

I see I understand that, she doesn’t share the same beliefs as me but she does believe in God.

 

[Todd]

You’ve answered your own question.

I did??
Are you saying God's love isn't infinite? God is Love. I know of no scritpure that says God is Justice.

1 John 4:7-21
7 Beloved, may we love one another, because the love is of God, and every one who is loving, of God he hath been begotten, and doth know God;
8 he who is not loving did not know God, because God is love.
9 In this was manifested the love of God in us, because His Son -- the only begotten -- hath God sent to the world, that we may live through him;
10 in this is the love, not that we loved God, but that He did love us, and did send His Son a propitiation for our sins.
11 Beloved, if thus did God love us, we also ought one another to love;
12 God no one hath ever seen; if we may love one another, God in us doth remain, and His love is having been perfected in us;
13 in this we know that in Him we do remain, and He in us, because of His Spirit He hath given us.
14 And we -- we have seen and do testify, that the Father hath sent the Son -- Saviour of the world;
15 whoever may confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God in him doth remain, and he in God;
16 and we -- we have known and believed the love, that God hath in us; God is love, and he who is remaining in the love, in God he doth remain, and God in him.
17 In this made perfect hath been the love with us, that boldness we may have in the day of the judgment, because even as He is, we -- we also are in this world;
18 fear is not in the love, but the perfect love doth cast out the fear, because the fear hath punishment, and he who is fearing hath not been made perfect in the love;
19 we -- we love him, because He -- He first loved us;
20 if any one may say -- `I love God,' and his brother he may hate, a liar he is; for he who is not loving his brother whom he hath seen, God -- whom he hath not seen -- how is he able to love?
21 and this [is] the command we have from Him, that he who is loving God, may also love his brother.

 

[Lisa]

I did??
Are you saying God's love isn't infinite? God is Love. I know of no scritpure that says God is Justice.

1 John 4:7-21
7 Beloved, may we love one another, because the love is of God, and every one who is loving, of God he hath been begotten, and doth know God;
8 he who is not loving did not know God, because God is love.
9 In this was manifested the love of God in us, because His Son -- the only begotten -- hath God sent to the world, that we may live through him;
10 in this is the love, not that we loved God, but that He did love us, and did send His Son a propitiation for our sins.
11 Beloved, if thus did God love us, we also ought one another to love;
12 God no one hath ever seen; if we may love one another, God in us doth remain, and His love is having been perfected in us;
13 in this we know that in Him we do remain, and He in us, because of His Spirit He hath given us.
14 And we -- we have seen and do testify, that the Father hath sent the Son -- Saviour of the world;
15 whoever may confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God in him doth remain, and he in God;
16 and we -- we have known and believed the love, that God hath in us; God is love, and he who is remaining in the love, in God he doth remain, and God in him.
17 In this made perfect hath been the love with us, that boldness we may have in the day of the judgment, because even as He is, we -- we also are in this world;
18 fear is not in the love, but the perfect love doth cast out the fear, because the fear hath punishment, and he who is fearing hath not been made perfect in the love;
19 we -- we love him, because He -- He first loved us;
20 if any one may say -- `I love God,' and his brother he may hate, a liar he is; for he who is not loving his brother whom he hath seen, God -- whom he hath not seen -- how is he able to love?
21 and this [is] the command we have from Him, that he who is loving God, may also love his brother.

I’m saying that you asked me a question and then answered it. To believe God is only love is like eating an Oreo and saying that the Oreo is only about the frosting in the middle and ignoring the crunchy chocolate cookie on the outside.

 

[Lisa]

Oh well thanks clearing that up.

I see I understand that, she doesn’t share the same beliefs as me but she does believe in God.

@Allegra, she isn’t a Christian. She doesn’t believe in God, she believes in a god of her own making.

 

[justjess]

For someone who doesn’t even believe in God, they sure have a lot to say to stir up the discussion among Christians.

Who doesn’t believe in god?

 

[justjess]

Justjess. I used to read her posts in other thread and she doesn’t seem to believe in God. Or she does but idk, her other posts clearly show she doesn’t believe in God.

Or if she believes then probably I was dreaming lol

You must be cherry picking my posts...

 

[justjess]

@Allegra, she isn’t a Christian. She doesn’t believe in God, she believes in a god of her own making.

According to you. I follow the teachings and example of Christ therefore etymologically I am a Christian. Sorry to break it to you...

Were the people in this article “not Christians”
https://christianuniversalist.org/resources/articles/history-of-universalism/

But see this is why out of deference I don’t claim the word. Exactly why.

 

[Allegra]

@Allegra, she isn’t a Christian. She doesn’t believe in God, she believes in a god of her own making.

nah i know this. some people have their own 'ideal God'. When God doesn't meet their criteria of ideal God, they will say the bible is corrupted or it's translated wrongly or it does not hold the most authority.

Man, I've seen people like this way too many times. When I was a mod in a Christian community, I always screened people's beliefs, have discussions with them, etc, before they joined our community. In a day I can talk and discuss to various people.

You must be cherry picking my posts...

Nah I don't cherry pick, 95% of the time I dont even care about your opinions and posts. it's more like your posts that I happened to stumbled upon.

 

[justjess]

““God’s consuming fire works with the good as with the evil, annihilating that which harms His children. This fire is one that each one kindles; the fuel and food is each one’s sins. … When the soul has gathered together a multitude of evil works, and an abundance of sins against itself, at a suitable time all that assembly of evils boils up to punishment, and is set on fire to chastisement… t is to be understood that God our Physician, desiring to remove the defects of our souls, should apply the punishment of fire. … Our God is a ‘consuming fire’ in the sense in which we have taken the word; and thus He enters in as a ‘refiner’s fire’ to refine the rational nature, which has been filled with the lead of wickedness, and to free it from the other impure materials which adulterate the natural gold or silver, so to speak, of the soul. [O]ur belief is that the Word [Christ] shall prevail over the entire rational creation, and change every soul into his own perfection. … For stronger than all the evils in the soul is the Word, and the healing power that dwells in him; and this healing he applies, according to the will of God, to every man.”

I guess Origen - one of the founding fathers of the church - wasn’t a Christian either.

 

[Lisa]

etymologically I am a Christian.

Following a god of your own making.

 

[justjess]

nah i know this. some people have their own 'ideal God'. When God doesn't meet their criteria of ideal God, they will say the bible is corrupted or it's translated wrongly or it does not hold the most authority.

Man, I've seen people like this way too many times. When I was a mod in a Christian community, I always screened people's beliefs, have discussions with them, etc, before they joined our community. In a day I can talk and discuss to various people.



Nah I don't cherry pick, 95% of the time I dont even care about your opinions and posts. it's more like your posts that I happened to stumbled upon.

Then you missed all the posts were I explicitly stated I believe in god and I believe Jesus to have been sent by god/divinely inspired. What a convenience for you.

Disagreeing on scriptural interpretations doesn’t work as a disclaimer for any other Christian, if it did then not a single one on this board would actually be Christian since you guys clearly can’t agree on anything other then being nasty and mean to people’s whose interpretation varies more significantly then yours.