Once Saved Always Saved?

Lisa

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Topic title- Once Saved Always Saved?
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NOBODY KNOWS if they're saved in the first place, although a lot of people like to THINK they are..:)
Even Paul was man enough to admit he didn't know if he shaped up in God's eyes-
"My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.
Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time" (1 Cor 4:3)
Acts‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭
For John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

Though...
Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬ ‭
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
 

Tidal

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Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬ ‭
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.​

Yes, we might even speculate that they NEVER TRULY were believers in the first place.
Likewise, if an Elvis fan were to suddenly decide not to like him any more, it means he couldn't have been a true fan in the first place..:)
 

Lisa

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Yes, we might even speculate that they NEVER TRULY were believers in the first place.
Likewise, if an Elvis fan were to suddenly decide not to like him any more, it means he couldn't have been a true fan in the first place..:)
They were made partakers of the Holy Spirit..can non believers receive the Holy Spirit?
 
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just thinking..
Luke‬ ‭18:8‬ ‭
However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?

‭‭‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith.​
Hi Lisa, The Church here is speaking of the visible church, which is a mixture of true believers and tares. 1 Tim. 4:1 is speaking of apostasy of those who have changed the message of Christ from Faith alone to forbidding marriage and adding other special rituals to the cross of Christ, they have fallen away from the TRUTH of the gospel, they were never saved. Had they been saved, they would not have been fooled by the apostate teachers . They are tares, they were never saved but have become religious by way of works and rituals...Catholicism us an apostate church along with LDS, CofC, JW and anyone else that has added to or taken away from the work of Christ.
 

Lisa

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Made partakers of the Holy Spirit is not the same as receiving the Holy Spirit.
Sure it is...that’s exactly what it means!
par·take
\pär-ˈtāk, pər-\
  • : to have a share or part of something along with others
  • : to join with others in doing something : to take part in something
 

Lisa

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Hi Lisa, The Church here is speaking of the visible church, which is a mixture of true believers and tares. 1 Tim. 4:1 is speaking of apostasy of those who have changed the message of Christ from Faith alone to forbidding marriage and adding other special rituals to the cross of Christ, they have fallen away from the TRUTH of the gospel, they were never saved. Had they been saved, they would not have been fooled by the apostate teachers . They are tares, they were never saved but have become religious by way of works and rituals...Catholicism us an apostate church along with LDS, CofC, JW and anyone else that has added to or taken away from the work of Christ.
Hey Doug..I don’t think so. If you fall away from the faith..don’t you first have to have faith? And what faith would the Holy Spirit be talking about..but the Christian faith.

As for Hebrews 6:4-6..Only one sort can be made partakers of the Holy Spirit..and that’s Christians. If you’re not a Christian..you can’t be made a partaker..you can’t have the Holy Spirit. So..that means that those verses are talking about Christians.

And the Holy Spirit explicitly says..means there are no ands, ifs or buts about it...some will fall away from the faith. And what I didn’t continue with is how..they fall away because of doctrines of demons and deceitful spirits.

If its not about us Christians falling away from the faith..and we are once saved always saved...why warn us about false teachers or prophets? Does it matter? Does that leaven really matter if we are always saved? If we believe whatever we want but were saved in the beginning then we are still saved? Cause that’s what it comes down to doesn’t it? You said they wouldn’t be fooled by apostate teachers..but all they had to do was believe to be osas..what does it matter if they don’t believe after that? OSAS!

The fact is that osas is not a real theology..the Bible doesn’t support it..and yes you can fall away from faith and lose your salvation..Hebrews 6:4-6 confirms it.
 

Tidal

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Tidal said- (re "falling away") we might even speculate that they NEVER TRULY were believers in the first place.
Likewise, if an Elvis fan were to suddenly decide not to like him any more, it means he couldn't have been a true fan in the first place..:)
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They were made partakers of the Holy Spirit..can non believers receive the Holy Spirit?

Jesus said- "Whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst.
Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life" (John 4:14)


Therefore if anybody decides to reject him later, they obviously never truly received the holy spirit in the first place..:)
 

Lisa

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Tidal said- (re "falling away") we might even speculate that they NEVER TRULY were believers in the first place.
Likewise, if an Elvis fan were to suddenly decide not to like him any more, it means he couldn't have been a true fan in the first place..:)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Jesus said- "Whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst.
Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life" (John 4:14)


Therefore if anybody decides to reject him later, they obviously never truly received the holy spirit in the first place..:)
That not what Hebrews 6:4-6 says..people have the Holy Spirit. The only people that can have the Holy Spirit ARE believers.
 

Tidal

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..The only people that can have the Holy Spirit ARE believers..
But if they backslide later the holy spirit flies out the window and they're up the creek.
That's why the "once saved always saved" notion is a touch satanic, because the mugs think they can drop their guard, and of course satan will then move in.
As I pointed out earlier, even Paul was man enought to admit he didn't know if he was saved.
 

Lisa

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But if they backslide later the holy spirit flies out the window and they're up the creek.
That's why the "once saved always saved" notion is a touch satanic, because the mugs think they can drop their guard, and of course satan will then move in.
As I pointed out earlier, even Paul was man enought to admit he didn't know if he was saved.
He knew..
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:6-8‬ ‭​
For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.
 

phipps

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10 SCRIPTURES THAT REFUTE ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED.

Have you ever wondered whether or not the once saved always saved teaching in some Christian circles is according to the Bible??

Here is biblical evidence that shows we need to keep our faith and hope in Jesus Christ to the end, if NOT we can end up lost. YES we can lose our salvation after we have been saved.

1. Galatians 5:4, "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." Here it talks about Christians who apparently started out in a relationship with Jesus, the faith based way but somewhere along the line attempted to justify themselves by their works. Paul told them they were fallen from Grace. That indicates that someone can reject the grace of God after receiving it, they can end up lost after they have been saved.

2. Hebrews 3:12, "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God." Paul was evidently writing to Christians here since he called them brethren and he warned them of the danger of departing from God. That indicates that we have the free will to walk away from God.

3. Exodus 32:31-33, Here Moses pleaded with God to forgive the Israelites for worshipping the Golden calf. "And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written." What God said in verse 33 is significant, "And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book." This is talking about the book of life because that is the only book that people's names get blotted out of for sinning according to Revelation 3:5. The book of life records those who are saved. So if your name could be removed from the book of life for sinning against God that means you can lose your salvation.

4. John 15:5-6, Jesus said, "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." Here Jesus makes it plain that when we do remain in Him, we need to stay in a relationship with Him. It's our choice whether or not we choose to end that relationship. If that happens Jesus said our faith is to be cast into the fire to be burned, in other words hell fire.

5. Hebrews 10: 26-27, Paul said, "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." This is taking about continuing in a life of sin after accepting Jesus as Lord and Saviour. Sometimes Christians do sin, at times wilfully and at times ignorantly. When we become aware of our sins, we should repent and confess them to God in the name of Jesus. However if we accept Jesus in our lives and then live a life of constant sin and we don't repent, then Jesus' sacrifice doesn't count, because Jesus' death was for repented sins according to Acts 3:19. Those who don't repent of their sins will pay for them in hell because they never accepted Jesus' gift of salvation.

6. 1 Corinthians 9:24-27, "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." Paul compared our Christians journey to a race, he mentioned the importance of self control and subjection to God, and indicates that if we don't practice those things in our Christian life, then we will be disqualified from eternal life.

7. 1 Timothy 4:1, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils..." That's clearly indicates it's not only possible to depart from the faith, but that some believers will depart from the faith in the last days.

8. Colossians 1:21-23, "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister..." Here it clearly talks about people who have come into a saving relationship with God, people who have reconciled to God, and it mentions that in order for them to be presented, unblameable and unreproveable to God after Jesus' return they need to continue in the faith and maintain their hope of the Gospel to the end. The opposite of this is if you don't maintain your faith and hope you will be lost.

9. 1 Samuel 10:6, is speaking about king Saul and the meeting he had with Samuel. "And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man." King Saul was converted by the Holy Spirit, verse 9 even says that God gave him a new heart, "And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day." That's what conversion is all about, it's about changing our hearts and minds so that we can serve God. But king Saul didn't stay that way, he ended up departing from God and becoming lost. King Saul continuously disobeyed God to the point that God regretted making him a king (1 Samuel 15:11). As a result Saul lost his connection with God and the Holy Spirit departed from him. Saul ended up committing suicide.

10. Revelation 12:7-9, "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." Lucifer who we know as Satan was created a perfect angel in heaven but as a result of rebelling against God, he was cast out. This is one of the strongest evidences for me that someone saved can end up lost. Lucifer was actually better than saved, he was created perfect in a sinless, perfect environment and lived in heaven (the perfect environment) with God. There was no temptation at all. Yet he sinned and did not repent.

Why did Satan fall and rebel against God? Because he was created with free will and choice like all God's intelligent beings are. Angels and human beings all have the power to choose or to reject Christ. God does not force us to love Him. Love, in order to be love, has to be freely given.

The Bible makes it clear that we can fall from Grace. The Bible also emphasizes that we need to keep the faith to the end, if we expect to make it to heaven and be with Christ eternally.
 
Last edited:

Red Sky at Morning

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View attachment 101644
10 SCRIPTURES THAT REFUTE ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED.

Have you ever wondered whether or not the once saved always saved teaching in some Christian circles is according to the Bible??

Here is biblical evidence that shows we need to keep our faith and hope in Jesus Christ to the end, if NOT we can end up lost. YES we can lose our salvation after we have been saved.

1. Galatians 5:4, "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." Here it talks about Christians who apparently started out in a relationship with Jesus, the faith based way but somewhere along the line attempted to justify themselves by their works. Paul told them they were fallen from Grace. That indicates that someone can reject the grace of God after receiving it, they can end up lost after they have been saved.

2. Hebrews 3:12, "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God." Paul was evidently writing to Christians here since he called them brethren and he warned them of the danger of departing from God. That indicates that we have the free will to walk away from God.

3. Exodus 32:31-33, Here Moses pleaded with God to forgive the Israelites for worshipping the Golden calf. "And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written." What God said in verse 33 is significant, "And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book." This is talking about the book of life because that is the only book that people's names get blotted out of for sinning according to Revelation 3:5. The book of life records those who are saved. So if your name could be removed from the book of life for sinning against God that means you can lose your salvation.

4. John 15:5-6, Jesus said, "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." Here Jesus makes it plain that when we do remain in Him, we need to stay in a relationship with Him. It's our choice whether or not we choose to end that relationship. If that happens Jesus said our faith is to be cast into the fire to be burned, in other words hell fire.

5. Hebrews 10: 26-27, Paul said, "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." This is taking about continuing in a life of sin after accepting Jesus as Lord and Saviour. Sometimes Christians do sin, at times wilfully and at times ignorantly. When we become aware of our sins, we should repent and confess them to God in the name of Jesus. However if we accept Jesus in our lives and then live a life of constant sin and we don't repent, then Jesus' sacrifice doesn't count, because Jesus' death was for repented sins according to Acts 3:19. Those who don't repent of their sins will pay for them in hell because they never accepted Jesus' gift of salvation.

6. 1 Corinthians 9:24-27, "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." Paul compared our Christians journey to a race, he mentioned the importance of self control and subjection to God, and indicates that if we don't practice those things in our Christian life, then we will be disqualified from eternal life.

7. 1 Timothy 4:1, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils..." That's clearly indicates it's not only possible to depart from the faith, but that some believers will depart from the faith in the last days.

8. Colossians 1:21-23, "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister..." Here it clearly talks about people who have come into a saving relationship with God, people who have reconciled to God, and it mentions that in order for them to be presented, unblameable and unreproveable to God after Jesus' return they need to continue in the faith and maintain their hope of the Gospel to the end. The opposite of this is if you don't maintain your faith and hope you will be lost.

9. 1 Samuel 10:6, is speaking about king Saul and the meeting he had with Samuel. "And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man." King Saul was converted by the Holy Spirit, verse 9 even says that God gave him a new heart, "And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day." That's what conversion is all about, it's about changing our hearts and minds so that we can serve God. But king Saul didn't stay that way, he ended up departing from God and becoming lost. King Saul continuously disobeyed God to the point that God regretted making him a king (1 Samuel 15:11). As a result Saul lost his connection with God and the Holy Spirit departed from him. Saul ended up committing suicide.

10. Revelation 12:7-9, "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." Lucifer who we know as Satan was created a perfect angel in heaven but as a result of rebelling against God, he was cast out. This is one of the strongest evidences for me that someone saved can end up lost. Lucifer was actually better than saved, he was created perfect in a sinless, perfect environment and lived in heaven (the perfect environment) with God. There was no temptation at all. Yet he sinned and did not repent.

Why did Satan fall and rebel against God? Because he was created with free will and choice like all God's intelligent beings are. Angels and human beings all have the power to choose or to reject Christ. God does not force us to love Him. Love, in order to be love, has to be freely given.

The Bible makes it clear that we can fall from Grace. The Bible also emphasizes that we need to keep the faith to the end, if we expect to make it to heaven and be with Christ eternally.
If you trust in the law, you have “fallen from grace”. I don’t want to be glib, but it’s that simple.
 

phipps

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ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED IS A DOCTRINE OF DEMONS!!!

There are so many lethal views about what constitutes the true gospel, it boggles the mind. 2 Timothy 4:3-4 says plainly, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.”

It is with some trepidation that I suggest that many sincere Christians have wholeheartedly consumed these toxic ideas about how to be saved, because believing in these counterfeit doctrines has potentially severe and eternal ramifications.

One such view is called “once saved, always saved,” also known as the doctrine of eternal security or the “perseverance of the saints.” It is a belief that, I believe, can cause deadly spiritual atrophy.

The roots of this teaching go back to a giant of the Protestant Reformation, John Calvin. This man of deep faith was a sincere Bible student and a brilliant scholar. But like all people, including Martin Luther and John Wesley, his theology was not perfect. It’s been said that “great men often hold to great heresies,” and I believe this was true of Calvin, who attempted to systematize his concepts of salvation, which form the basis of Calvinism.

God has an all-knowing perspective. He knows whether you are going to be saved or lost, but this knowledge does not take away your free choice. We know this because of the many Scripture passages that demonstrate our freedom to choose. Joshua told Israel to “choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve” (Joshua 24:15). The story of the fall of humanity shows the high value (and high price) that God gave to Adam and Eve when He let them choose whether to obey or disobey Him.

When you have an abiding trust in Jesus, you can know that you are a child of God and that He will finish what He began in your life. “Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:6). How do we complete the race that we began when we first accepted the Saviour? “Looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith” (Hebrews 12:2).

We can have the assurance of salvation if we keep our eyes on Christ and hold fast to His Word. We can know that we have eternal life when we continue to walk in God’s ways by faith. But if we believe that once we accept Jesus we can turn away from Him and still be saved, we are swallowing an artificial gospel that could leave us with great disappointment.
 

phipps

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Matthew 7:13-14

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”
 
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