Once Saved Always Saved?

[TokiEl]

He can’t answer because his ego and pride can’t let him think anymore.

I still don't see how you're not a troll.

 

[Allegra]

I still don't see how you're not a troll.

Cuz the convos here aren’t going anywhere. We don’t force people to believe what we believe because that’s not how it works. We explain if a person can not agree then that’s on them. It’s better to give your message to other nonbelievers than debating for the sake of it.
People here are all going around the circle being dragged around by you. Might as well troll this thread

 

[TokiEl]

Cuz the convos here aren’t going anywhere. We don’t force people to believe what we believe because that’s not how it works. We explain if a person can not agree then that’s on them. It’s better to give your message to other nonbelievers than debating for the sake of it.
People here are all going around the circle being dragged around by you. Might as well troll this thread

People here are lacking in knowledge and understanding because of wrong attitude and complacency concerning sins.

 

[Allegra]

People here are lacking in knowledge and understanding because of wrong attitude and complacency concerning sins.

Being condescending isn’t the right way to convince people that they’re wrong

 

[TokiEl]

Being condescending isn’t the right way to convince people that they’re wrong

You might need to work on your delicate sensibilities.

 

[Allegra]

You might need to work on your delicate sensibilities.

Just wondering, if you truly want people to stop sinning and believe in your view of salvation, you might want to try another way to approach and correct people because right now, what you’re doing is far from what the bible tells us to behave.

Also if you truly want to correct people here out of love to stop sinning, then don’t be a stumbling stone.

 

[TokiEl]

That's not what I see. Of course using faith to justify deliberate sin is wrong but I don't see anyone advocating for that. It's not just about believing in Him, you discount the internal change that bids our desires to slowly change and align themselves with God's will. All people here seem to be saying is that God's grace is sufficient to cover sin even after being saved IF one is genuinely repentant. I struggle to believe that premeditated sin while under grace can be committed by a genuine heart.

I see a laodicean attitude and complacency concerning sins. And a church carte blanche forgiveness of sins for those who just believe in Jesus. Now it's not the church but saints who will judge both angels and the world by the law.

 

[TokiEl]

Just wondering, if you truly want people to stop sinning and believe in your view of salvation, you might want to try another way to approach and correct people because right now, what you’re doing is far from what the bible tells us to behave.

Also if you truly want to correct people here out of love to stop sinning, then don’t be a stumbling stone.

You're a church bunch who don't respect the rod ?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I see a laodicean attitude and complacency concerning sins. And a church carte blanche forgiveness of sins for those who just believe in Jesus. Now it's not the church but saints who will judge both angels and the world by the law.

What sins do you think the Lord finds the most offensive?

Proverbs 6:16-19 King James Version (KJV)

16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren

 

[TokiEl]

What sins do you think the Lord finds the most offensive?

Proverbs 6:16-19 King James Version (KJV)

16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren

You falsely believe that i am the problem... just because you are many and i am only one.

You project i don't know what on me for not tolerating the easy grace gospel and the church complacency concerning sins.

You might think i'm stirring the sheep but i'm cleaning the nest.

 

[TokiEl]

So there's a laodicean attitude and sense of complacency in believing in the superiority of God's grace over sin and in the full sufficiency of the sacrifice of His son?

Absolutely laodicean and you should read Jesus words to the laodicean church.

And you keep misrepresenting what people are saying here.

Stop saying i misrepresent what people are saying here. You are willfully blind to the insults and all out attack against me for what ? For calling for holy living and saying stop sinning.

Are you a saint Toki? Despite admitting that you'd sinned even after coming to grace? Does that not disqualify you from that category by your own logic?

A saint keeps the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Check.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

You falsely believe that i am the problem... just because you are many and i am only one.

You project i don't know what on me for not tolerating the easy grace gospel and the church complacency concerning sins.

You might think i'm stirring the sheep but i'm cleaning the nest.

You are essentially diminishing the significance of the cross and elevating works as the thing that will save you.

You may have met a lot of lukewarm Christians. I have too.

I have also met many who would have the appearance of being Christian. They may have slipped up a hand after an emotional appeal and signed a card. They may have repeated “The Sinners Prayer” after the Pastor. Unless that conversion is genuine, they have not really been saved.

I would agree that after ascending to a watered down Gospel, unregenerate people might sit in church, clap along to Hillsong favourites and then live lives that are far from the gospel. I don’t approve or condone either a false gospel or the lifestyle followed by false “Christians”.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

P.s. an interesting snippet of Christian history - the moment the penny dropped for John Westley:-

John Wesley was onboard a ship bound for the Georgia colony in early 1736 when a ferocious storm shredded the main sail and flooded the decks.

Many of the English passengers aboard screamed in terror that they would soon be swallowed by the deep. But a group of Moravian missionaries from Germany calmly sang throughout the squall. They were unafraid of death, an astounded John Wesley later recounted in his journal.

That journey marked Wesley’s first significant encounter with a small Protestant movement that would have an enormous influence on his ministry and the Methodist movement he started.

Two years later, a disheartened Wesley was back in England wrestling with his Christian faith after a miserable time in Georgia. On May 24, 1738, friends prevailed upon him to attend a Moravian society meeting on Aldersgate Street in London.

Many United Methodists can recite what happened next. That night, upon hearing Martin Luther’s preface to Romans, Wesley wrote, “I felt my heart strangely warmed. I felt I did trust in Christ alone for salvation.” Wesley’s spiritual awakening was a turning point in his life, and arguably it might not have happened without the Moravians.

 

[TokiEl]

You are essentially diminishing the significance of the cross and elevating works as the thing that will save you.

No that's just you misunderstanding.

Remission of sins are only possible because of the spilt blood of Jesus Christ.

So how do i diminish the cross ?

We all had sins which lead to death before we came to Christ and even after we might struggle with minor sins. What i do not tolerate is the church complacency with major sins like adultery and even premeditated murder.

 

[TokiEl]

So you're diminishing the gift of Grace to being inferior to human righteousness?

Read what Jesus said to the seven churches and answer it yourself.

I'll keep saying it until you stop doing it. People are reacting to your own arrogance and condescending attitude. The only problem is that your version of holy living seems to prop up man's effort above God's. And I'm still waiting for you to quote a single post where anyone permitted living in continual sin. Just one.

I guess you go to church since you believe in the easy grace gospel and participate in the church mob rule against anybody who hold you personally accountable for your own thoughts words and actions.

How does this clash with the idea that a saint can still stumble but remain under grace as long as they are sincerely repentant and depend on the guidance of the Holy Spirit? You still haven't answered my question. Do you think that sins cannot be forgiven once you are saved?

Jesus easily forgives sincere repentance but not complacency concerning sins.

 

[TokiEl]

Answer my question first. Or better yet, reference me to the specific verse where Jesus declares that His sacrifice is insufficient for all sins.

Just believe in Jesus is not going to cut it as He said himself to the seven churches.

Sir, I have not been a "church goer" for several years now. Be careful where assumption leads -you have no idea what anyone's relationship with God is like outside of this forum. Care to tell me where I ever relinquished personal responsibility for my sins? If you can find me a single post of mine where I did this without contorting my words then I will apologise for "attacking" you.

I don't need apologies. Strive for sinlessness.

And where is the complacency concerning sins that you're obsessed with? I'm pretty sure most understand the severity of it. Jesus had to die because of it.

The complacency concerning sins are all over the place.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Be careful where assumption leads -you have no idea what anyone's relationship with God is like outside of this forum.

And that appears to be the heart of the issue.

@TokiEl seems to know some Christians who wish to promote sin. I have not come across this anywhere but given the spectrum of people out there I can only conclude that he has, and give him the benefit of the doubt.

What might be an issue is that, in suspicion of the kind of church he may be reacting against, he applies his experience of this libertarian fellowship to the wider body of believers.

I think this is a mistake.

 

[TokiEl]

And that appears to be the heart of the issue.

@TokiEl seems to know some Christians who wish to promote sin. I have not come across this anywhere but given the spectrum of people out there I can only conclude that he has, and give him the benefit of the doubt.

What might be an issue is that, in suspicion of the kind of church he may be reacting against, he applies his experience of this libertarian fellowship to the wider body of believers.

I think this is a mistake.

Most if not all of you approve carte blanche forgiveness of major sins which lead to death to those who just believe in Jesus.

How is this not a mistake ?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Most if not all of you approve carte blanche forgiveness of major sins which lead to death to those who just believe in Jesus.

How is this not a mistake ?

Please show me where I express approval for these major sins.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

Maybe he thinks that’s what osas means? I mean you could go out and sin it up couldn’t you?

When you get saved & receive the Holy Spirit, you begin to HATE sin, especially your own.

In order to even come to Christ, one must realize their own sinfulness to understand WHY they need salvation.

That is why many never get saved....they don’t realize they are already going to Hell, that they already ARE a sinner which is why they NEED Jesus in the first place. It’s all pride.