Once Saved Always Saved?

phipps

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Danger of Being a Castaway

Paul recognized the fearful possibility of being cast out of God's presence in the end unless he curbed the fleshly propensities to sin. Said he, ". . . lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." 1 Corinthians 9:27. The word Paul used - castaway - is very interesting. It is the Greek word "adokimos," which is translated "reprobate" in other places. In fact, 2 Corinthians 13:5 declares that Jesus Christ cannot dwell in the heart that is reprobate (adokimos). Titus 1:16 speaks of the abominable and disobedient who are "unto every good work reprobate (adokimos)." Surely Paul had nothing else in mind but that he could be lost if he allowed sin to recapture his life.

Paul also speaks of the possibility of born-again believers suffering damnation because they receive the Lord's Supper unworthily. "For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself." 1 Corinthians 11:29. No one can deny that these people were committed Christians partaking of the symbols of their redemption. Could they fall into damnation and be lost? Paul said they could. What is damnation? The same Greek word (krima) is found in 1 Timothy 5:12. "Having damnation (krima) because they have cast off their first faith." How plain it is that believers can "cast off their first faith" and go into final damnation.

I have listened many, many times to an explanation of eternal security based upon the analogy of sonship. "My child is born into my family and he will always be my child. He cannot be unborn. Whether obedient or disobedient, he will always be my child." This reasoning avoids the central issue. The question is not whether a child can be "unborn," but whether it can sicken and die. No doctor admonishes new parents about the dangers of the baby getting unborn, but he has much to say about proper care to keep it from dying. In fact, if the baby is not fed, it will soon die. In the same way, Jesus said, "Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you." John 6:53. What was He talking about? In verse 63 He explained, "The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." Unless the Christian lives by the Word of God, he cannot continue to partake of the spiritual life derived from Him.

Have we clearly established that continued obedience is necessary to ultimate salvation? Paul wrote, "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey?" Romans 6:16. When a man chooses to obey Christ no longer and obeys the devil instead, he no longer belongs to Christ, but to Satan. "He that doeth righteousness is righteous . . . He that committeth sin is of the devil." 1 John 3:7, 8.

The writer of the book of Hebrews gives scores of specific admonitions against falling away from the faith. Hebrews 10:23 opens up a line of argument against the once-saved, always-saved position that no one can refute. The passage begins this way: "Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering." And after that, admonition is given those who might be tempted to absent themselves from the assembly of the believers. Apparently, this is one of the first signs of slipping backward. The author of this epistle, and I think it was Paul, includes himself in the warning. He writes, "For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" That is from verses 26 through 29. The people described here had been sanctified by the truth, but fell away into willful apostasy.

Now the last few verses of the chapter warn against the casting away of their confidence. Notice this carefully! "Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. . . . Now the just shall live by faith; but if any man draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." Verses 35 to 39. Now how could anybody state any more clearly the fact that one's eternal salvation is conditional on his remaining steadfast to the very end? Unless there were a possibility that one might cast away his confidence, that he might draw back unto perdition, why would this man of God sound such a warning as he did?

In Hebrews 6:4-6 we find another striking statement. "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." Now I think it would be very difficult to describe more fully a person who had been born again but who later rebelled against God and rejected Christ and spurned the Holy Spirit. He has placed himself out of God's reach by his own actions. Therefore, there is no possibility that such a man can be saved as long as he continues to crucify Christ by his disobedience.

What Does It Mean for the Christian to Leave His "First Love"?

"Nevertheless, I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy FIRST LOVE. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent." Revelation 2:4, 5, emphasis added.

For the Christian to leave his first love, is to backslide, to fall away, to leave the Lord and His service, and to go over to the service of sin, Satan and the world. The Lord calls upon all such to repent and do their first works (the fruits of love), or else - else what? "I will take thy candlestick out of his place." This is an ultimatum from the Lord. If the sinner responds, repents, returns to his first love, and does his first works, all is well and good - he will be saved. But it is his to choose. If he does not do this, his light is removed, goes out, and the backslider is lost.

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/17/t/can-a-saved-man-choose-to-be-lost-#The-Secret-of-Continued-Life-is-Continued-Abiding

@Claire Rousseau,
To say that it doesn’t & that a person can “lose” their salvation is calling God a liar, and means you do NOT actually BELIEVE Jesus saves us.
Then according to you the Word of God is a liar because it clearly says a person can lose their salvation. It so clear that it can't be missed unless one chooses to support their false doctrine over the Bible. That also means they pick and choose what verses suit their doctrine while ignoring others. You are one of the liars here and are not speaking according to the Bible.

Jesus saves but He also created us with free will. That means we can exercise our free will to let go and there are examples of people in the Bible who did exactly that but of course you ignore those examples. King Saul, Balaam, kings David and Solomon and others. Now some of those people repented and went back to God and were saved again but others didn't.
 
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TokiEl

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Do you see how many times you asked me that question? Do you know what type of person asks another person over and over to tell them the specific Sins they struggle with?
I have read all your words and now i know what sins you struggle with. And i'm glad to hear it's just natural minor sins.

This constant clash between all of you guys and me reminds me of the clash between the Pharisees and Jesus.

Nobody likes to hear that they are pharisees but you all group together and come against me and so i find it natural to call you pharisees. And if you're not a pharisee you can take that on the chin and not get all worked up for being called a pharisee.

Now i've posted some youtube clips from a brethren warningthepeople in my thread who was plucked out of church.

The fact is that the church can't understand the brethren. Nobody wants to hear that they are on a lesser level than another... but that's just how it is. It's as natural as life itself.

I didn't get my knowledge and understanding given to me on a silver platter. You have no idea of the amount of time energy and dedication the Holy spirit have had me earnestly pursue truths. And when i share some with you guys... it's unrecognized and unappreciated or responded with ridicule and insults.

And that's on you. That is seriously not going to do you any good.
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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Adokimos2:255,181
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
ad-ok'-ee-mos Adjective

Definition

not standing the test*, not approved
properly used of metals and coins
that which does not prove itself such as it ought
unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate


*

1 Corinthians 3

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 

Vytas

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I have read all your words and now i know what sins you struggle with. And i'm glad to hear it's just natural minor sins.

This constant clash between all of you guys and me reminds me of the clash between the Pharisees and Jesus.

Nobody likes to hear that they are pharisees but you all group together and come against me and so i find it natural to call you pharisees. And if you're not a pharisee you can take that on the chin and not get all worked up for being called a pharisee.

Now i've posted some youtube clips from a brethren warningthepeople in my thread who was plucked out of church.

The fact is that the church can't understand the brethren. Nobody wants to hear that they are on a lesser level than another... but that's just how it is. It's as natural as life itself.

I didn't get my knowledge and understanding given to me on a silver platter. You have no idea of the amount of time energy and dedication the Holy spirit have had me earnestly pursue truths. And when i share some with you guys... it's unrecognized and unappreciated or responded with ridicule and insults.

And that's on you. That is seriously not going to do you any good.
Man Daciple has really tried to reach your humanity behind that shell you are in, and made this circus of a thread look like something sincere and beautiful. Im not talking about myself but there are many really good christians here who can be role models for the rest of us including you. If they don't see things the way you do, every single one of them, maybe truth is not in you. Since then Holy Spirit tells someone to harass people online, inquire or judge their sins, if thats a gift you had you knew their sins without asking. Holy spirit works within us for us, He is not concerned about other people He is concerned about you. It shows the way, shows the future, shows what you must be, and how to achieve that, step by step, as long as you obey, and if you actually really called to preach, when you achieve what you must with yourself and learn your lessons you will. But in my humble opinion it's very rare calling, most of the preachers preach because satan made them believe they are ready, made them believe they are called...
You so enjoy being controversial and think this is because you represent truth, never occurred to you that it might be not be the case. If you work for Jesus show your fruits ? What good came out of your "preaching" here. Because there spirit is present there is unity, common goals, happiness within community. Is that is what's felt after your posts ? How can you be so incredibly blind ? Be yourself and stop pretending to be what you aren't, even if it's feels like huge pleasure....All that attention...I don't care, i live in shell myself, but you might be actually doing harm to people, not everyone who reads participates you know...I grew up thinking i was condemned to hell due to my unlucky childhood and what i learned about God from Catholic doctrines. I grew up thinking God doesn't love me and that im condemned to burn in hell for eternity. I thought God doesn't even gave me a chance...You don't know who reads your posts and what influence they might have, if you are dead wrong amount of damage you can do is scary. We will answer for every idle word we say, thats scary too... Get some common sense, judge yourself before you judge others...
 

JoChris

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I have read all your words and now i know what sins you struggle with. And i'm glad to hear it's just natural minor sins.

This constant clash between all of you guys and me reminds me of the clash between the Pharisees and Jesus.

Nobody likes to hear that they are pharisees but you all group together and come against me and so i find it natural to call you pharisees. And if you're not a pharisee you can take that on the chin and not get all worked up for being called a pharisee.

Now i've posted some youtube clips from a brethren warningthepeople in my thread who was plucked out of church.

The fact is that the church can't understand the brethren. Nobody wants to hear that they are on a lesser level than another... but that's just how it is. It's as natural as life itself.

I didn't get my knowledge and understanding given to me on a silver platter. You have no idea of the amount of time energy and dedication the Holy spirit have had me earnestly pursue truths. And when i share some with you guys... it's unrecognized and unappreciated or responded with ridicule and insults.

And that's on you. That is seriously not going to do you any good.
TokEI which churches have you gone to in the past?
How long did you go there, why did you decide to leave.
 

Allegra

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Holy Spirit works in miraculous and loving ways and according to the works Jesus had done!

Of course yes, we are allowed to condemn people if they are in the wrong but we do it out of love and not in a condescending and patronising way!

However before we judge people or condemn people of their sins, make sure that we understand that God is just and fair.

"For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you."
-‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:2‬‬
https://www.bible.com/59/mat.7.2.esv

So ok, you can tell people to stop sinning, then one day, God will ask you and measure you, have you stop sinning from the day you tell your brothers and sisters until the day of your death?

This is my last reply to this thread. Because I’m sure this thread will surpass BT$ thread lol.
 

TokiEl

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Man Daciple has really tried to reach your humanity behind that shell you are in, and made this circus of a thread look like something sincere and beautiful. Im not talking about myself but there are many really good christians here who can be role models for the rest of us including you. If they don't see things the way you do, every single one of them, maybe truth is not in you. Since then Holy Spirit tells someone to harass people online, inquire or judge their sins, if thats a gift you had you knew their sins without asking. Holy spirit works within us for us, He is not concerned about other people He is concerned about you. It shows the way, shows the future, shows what you must be, and how to achieve that, step by step, as long as you obey, and if you actually really called to preach, when you achieve what you must with yourself and learn your lessons you will. But in my humble opinion it's very rare calling, most of the preachers preach because satan made them believe they are ready, made them believe they are called...
You so enjoy being controversial and think this is because you represent truth, never occurred to you that it might be not be the case. If you work for Jesus show your fruits ? What good came out of your "preaching" here. Because there spirit is present there is unity, common goals, happiness within community. Is that is what's felt after your posts ? How can you be so incredibly blind ? Be yourself and stop pretending to be what you aren't, even if it's feels like huge pleasure....All that attention...I don't care, i live in shell myself, but you might be actually doing harm to people, not everyone who reads participates you know...I grew up thinking i was condemned to hell due to my unlucky childhood and what i learned about God from Catholic doctrines. I grew up thinking God doesn't love me and that im condemned to burn in hell for eternity. I thought God doesn't even gave me a chance...You don't know who reads your posts and what influence they might have, if you are dead wrong amount of damage you can do is scary. We will answer for every idle word we say, thats scary too... Get some common sense, judge yourself before you judge others...
What good came out of Jesus preaching to the Pharisees ?

You think you are in the right but so did the pharisees... they didn't believe they were wrong. Most of them were convinced that Jesus was a devil. And that's what most of you guys think i am.

But you are most likely members of a 501(c)(3) church ! A state sponsored propaganda workshop !

You have shown that you don't recognize truths. You believe a false easy grace gospel and you don't recognize Scriptural truths.

I am trying to tell you truths and wake you up from the smug slumber you are in... and sometimes my patience is running a little thin... just like Jesus !
 

phipps

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Is It Possible to Lose Your Salvation?


The modern grace message would tell us that, as believers in Jesus, nothing that we do (or do not do) can ever change our standing before God—even willful, persistent, unrepentant sin and unbelief. Numerous scriptures challenge that view (see, for instance, John 15:6; 1 Corinthians 15:2; 2 Timothy 2:12; and Hebrews 10:26.) But does that mean we cannot be secure in our salvation? Absolutely not!

But rather than asking if it is possible to “lose” your salvation, let’s ask the question, “Is it possible for you to walk away from God? As a follower of Jesus, do you still have a free will? Can you still make choices? If so, can you choose to deny Jesus and choose a life of sin instead?”

When looked at from this angle, it should be obvious that the answer is, “Yes, I still have a free will, and I can still make choices as a believer, so theoretically it would be possible for me to deny the Lord and abandon Him.”

You might say, “But I want to live for the Lord all the days of my life. I’m just afraid that I could mess up in some way and lose my salvation.”

Well then, let’s focus on that word “lose” for a moment. There’s a reason I prefer not to use it.

Normally, you lose something accidentally, like losing your car keys, your glasses, or a business card. “Where did I put those keys? I can’t find them anywhere.”

That is not the way things are with God and salvation. You don’t simply “lose” your salvation, as if it was as easy as that. God has promised to keep us, assuring us that nothing can separate us from His love (Rom. 8:31–39) and that no one can pluck us out of His hand (John 10:28–29). He is the Author and the Finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2), and He who began a good work in us will see it through to completion (Phil. 1:6).

Jesus is our Savior; we do not save ourselves. And just as we didn’t get saved by accident, we can’t lose our salvation by accident.

This means that if you want to live for the Lord, you have nothing to worry about in terms of “losing” your salvation. He will keep you, help you, empower you, guide you, correct you, and deliver you until you see Him face-to-face.

Think of it like being a passenger on a plane that is guaranteed to reach its destination overseas. Unless you choose to do something crazy and open the emergency door and jump, you will arrive at your destination safely.

It’s the exact same thing with salvation.

The “plane” you are flying in is piloted by a perfect Pilot, and there is nothing that can bring this plane down—not enemy fire, not bad weather, not anything—and you can enjoy the ride without fear of crashing. If you choose to do something crazy and walk away from the Lord—in the case of the plane analogy, open the emergency door and jump—then you choose to forfeit your salvation. But as long as you want to reach your destination and stay on the plane, you have nothing whatsoever to worry about it. In fact, you can even enjoy the ride!

You might say, “But that’s what scares me. If I have any choice in the matter, then I could be lost forever.”

The fact is, you do have a choice, and there is not a verse in the Bible that says that once we become believers, we do not have a free will in Jesus and are no longer capable of making spiritual choices. If that was the case, the entire New Testament would make no sense at all, since the Word constantly calls us to make choices as believers. But God has promised to keep you, so if you put your trust in Him rather in yourself, you have nothing to worry about.

You may be now thinking, “But the modern grace message makes me feel so much more secure, since it tells me that no matter what I do, no matter how many times I sin, even if I deny the Lord, He will not let me go.”

Perhaps it makes you feel more secure, but what you’re hearing is not true. That’s what makes the message so dangerous: It exaggerates wonderful truths about God’s love, kindness, and longsuffering, and goes beyond what Scripture says.

Why in the world would you want to take comfort by believing in something false? That would be like going to a doctor who says, “You are now cancer-free and that cancer will never come back,” only to die one year later from cancer because the doctor misled you. What kind of help is that?

Some say, “But once you have eternal life, it cannot be cut short. And once God makes you His child, you can’t cease to be His child.”

But that’s not what the Word says (which I will illustrate shortly), and it is on the Scriptures (not our logic) that we must base our beliefs, letting the Word speak for itself.

To repeat: Our Father has given us wonderful promises, and our salvation is not some flimsy thing that can be found one day and lost the next, nor is our salvation dependent on our ability to “stay saved.”

It is God who is at work in us, and He will finish what He started. He will hear your cry for help, He will have mercy on you in your weakness, and He will forgive one hundred times a day if you come to Him for cleansing. But He will not keep you against your own will, which is why the Lord gives us so many warnings in the New Testament.

"And you, who were formerly alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy and blameless and above reproach in His sight, if you continue in the faith, grounded and settled, and are not removed from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant." (Colossians 1:21–23, emphasis added)

"For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and then turn back from the holy commandment that was delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb, “The dog returns to his own vomit,” and “the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mud.”" (2 Peter 2:20–22)

"Therefore we should be more attentive to what we have heard, lest we drift away. For if the word spoken by angels was true, and every sin and disobedience received a just recompense, how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation, which was first declared by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him?" (Hebrews 2:1–3)

"Be attentive, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, and you depart from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence firmly to the end, while it is said: “Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”" (Hebrews 3:12-15)

The New Testament authors had no trouble issuing strong warnings to believers, sometimes putting these warnings side by side with God’s glorious promises. Both are true, and both should be taken to heart. That’s why Hebrews 12:2 can speak of Jesus as “the pioneer and perfecter of our faith” (NET) while Hebrews 12:25–29 can warn us about the dangers of refusing to obey God’s voice. In the same way, Philippians 2:12–13 put our responsibility side by side with God’s responsibility, saying, “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but so much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For God is the One working in you, both to will and to do His good pleasure.”

To help put all this in perspective, let me give you some further background. Within evangelical circles, there are three main beliefs concerning the possibility of a child of God forfeiting his or her salvation, and countless thousands of pages have been written debating the question. These are the three main views:

1. The teaching commonly known as “once saved, always saved” (OSAS) states that once you are truly saved, no matter how you live or what you do, even denying Jesus and turning your back on Him, you cannot lose your salvation. Although your sin might shorten your life or lessen your future rewards, you will still be eternally saved.

2. The teaching called “perseverance of the saints” states that a true believer will not ultimately turn away from the Lord, and therefore if you claim to be born-again and die in sin, denying the Lord, you were never truly saved.

3. The final teaching doesn’t have one specific name associated with it, but it states that a true believer can choose to apostatize, reject God’s grace, and forfeit salvation. Although we are secure in Jesus, if we ultimately reject Him, we forfeit our secure standing.

Those holding to the first view point to verses like Romans 8:28–39, which state that nothing that can separate us from God’s love, or John 10:26–29, which state that Jesus’s sheep have eternal life and no one can pluck them out of His hand.

Those holding to the second viewpoint emphasize those same passages but also point to verses such as 1 John 2:19, which states that those who left the church were never really part of it, or 1 John 3:6, which states that those who continue to live in sin have never really known the Lord.

Those holding to the third viewpoint look to verses such as Colossians 1:21–23, which state that our salvation is assured if we persevere in faith to the end, or 2 Peter 2:20–22, which state that it would be better never to have known the Lord than to know Him and then turn away from Him.

For the most part, modern grace (also called hyper-grace) teachers emphatically hold to the doctrine of “once saved, always saved” (viewpoint number 1), although some seem to hold to the doctrine of “perseverance of the saints” (viewpoint number 2) making comments such as, “It is totally impossible for a true Christian to reject Christ, since true Christians are one in spirit with Jesus. If someone claims to be a follower of Jesus and then denies Him and chooses a life of sin and rebellion, that person was never saved, no matter what they claim.” (This is a paraphrase of some common hyper-grace teachings).

Of course, there is an irony when modern grace teachers hold to views like perseverance of the saints, since it ultimately puts the emphasis back on the believer’s “performance.” In other words, “If I claim to be a believer and I’m living right then I’m saved, but if I claim to be a believer and have turned away from God, I guess I was never saved.” This is obviously the last thing intended by hyper-grace teachers, but again, it is the logical conclusion to statements like the one just quoted.

How then do we sort things out?

It’s really very simple.

God’s promises are to believers—to those who want to follow the Lord and whose lives belong to Him—not to rebels who have chosen sin and rejected His Lordship. Put another way, there is not a single promise anywhere in the Bible that God will bless us with eternal life if we ultimately reject Him and choose rebellion, and we give people false assurance when we make that claim. (In other words, viewpoint number 1 is not true.)

Find me one verse anywhere in the Bible—just one—that gives assurance of eternal life and blessing to an unrepentant rebel who is living in willful, persistent sin, denying the Lord in an ongoing, hardened way, and I will invite you to join me on national radio or TV and tell the whole world that I was wrong. Just one verse!

Without a doubt, you’ll find many verses promising mercy and forgiveness to those who turn back (thank God!) and you’ll find many verses assuring us of God’s keeping power, but note clearly that the promises are given to Jesus’s sheep—to those who know His voice and follow Him (John 10:27)—rather than to those who reject His voice and walk away from Him. In short, viewpoints number 2 or 3 could be right, but number 1 cannot.

So, on a practical level, it comes down to this: If you have put your trust in the Lord and desire to serve Him, He has given you absolute assurance that He will never leave or forsake you, that He will keep you safe to the end, and that no one and nothing can separate you from His love. Rest secure in Him! He is the Author and Finisher of your faith!

But if you believe that since you were once saved, even if you reject Him and live in unrepentant sin you are still saved, then you have deceived yourself and are in danger of falling under God’s judgment. (That’s why Jesus and Paul often warned us not to be deceived; see, for example, Matthew 24:4-5 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.) If you walked away from the Lord, either you were never saved or you have forfeited your salvation, so turn back to Him now, knowing that He is quick to forgive, that He loves to show mercy, and that He can restore you to Himself with life, hope, and purpose through Jesus. To repeat: The promise of eternal life is only to Jesus’s sheep, those who know His voice and follow Him.

But why would we ever want to walk away from Him? Everything we need is found in Him, and in Him alone is life—true, abundant life—so drink deeply of His incredible love. Be assured that He who began the good work in you will bring it to completion (Phil. 1:6). And if you find yourself playing games with sin and growing distant from the Lord, get sober, get serious, and turn back to the cross. The cleansing blood of Jesus will never lose its power.

https://askdrbrown.org/library/it-possible-lose-your-salvation

My last post here. Its up to to all of us if we follow the true Word of God all popular doctrines not based in the Word of God. Biblically the truth is always with the minority, never the majority. That is true in the World and also within Christendom.

Who was sheltered from the flood? Was it the majority, too busy with all of life’s activities to really hear what the crazy boat-building preacher was saying? Or was it the minority: Noah and his family who listened to the voice of the Lord? See Luke 17:26-27 and Hebrews 11:7.

Who was in the right? Was it the majority of Babylonians and Israelites, bowing before King Nebuchadnezzar’s impressive golden image? Or was it the minority: Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego who stood in faith for their precious Lord? See Daniel 3:15-28.

Friends, what does it profit if we enjoy the temporary security of community, church, and tradition, but lose eternal life by choosing to go along with the majority that disregards the truths of God’s Word? See Mark 8:36-38.

God bless.
 

TokiEl

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TokEI which churches have you gone to in the past?
How long did you go there, why did you decide to leave.
I have said several times that i am not a member of a church.

When i understood for sure that Somebody in the universe was listening to my thoughts... i began to search for God. For some reason my search began on the other side of the world at the feet of a guru in an ashram in India. For a long time i thought the eastern concept of God was correct. I believed in reincarnation and meditation and all that... I was satisfied i was on to something true until this Jesus character began to come up in my study. People claiming to have actually met Him peaked my interest... Of course i didn't believe in the Bible story because science had disproved that fairy tale. Or so i thought...

I had this dream and drive to pursue truth with all my might and not give up until i found it... and at the end of that incessant quest was Jesus Christ. Not a charcter in a fairy tale but the one and only real living God.

Now it may sound like i found Him... but the truth is that He found me when i was still a teen. He just put me on the path of an unbelievable amount of research into the world which we live and into His script.

He never sent me to church and i can understand why. Not that i hate church but it can't understand me.
 
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What work and who decides what work we do?
Preaching the Gospel and getting the lost saved. That is the MOST important work we can do for Christ and what He commanded us to do after His resurrection & before ascending to Heaven.

Mark 16:
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

If a person does not believe, they are not saved, nether can they be baptized with the Holy Spirit.
 

Vytas

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What good came out of Jesus preaching to the Pharisees ?

You think you are in the right but so did the pharisees... they didn't believe they were wrong. Most of them were convinced that Jesus was a devil. And that's what most of you guys think i am.

But you are most likely members of a 501(c)(3) church ! A state sponsored propaganda workshop !

You have shown that you don't recognize truths. You believe a false easy grace gospel and you don't recognize Scriptural truths.

I am trying to tell you truths and wake you up from the smug slumber you are in... and sometimes my patience is running a little thin... just like Jesus !
Ok whatever...
 

Red Sky at Morning

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But you are most likely members of a 501(c)(3) church ! A state sponsored propaganda workshop !

You have shown that you don't recognize truths. You believe a false easy grace gospel and you don't recognize Scriptural truths.
The assumptions are coming thick and fast now! I don’t think many people are into specific denominational Christianity at all!
 

Camidria

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You think you are in the right but so did the pharisees... they didn't believe they were wrong. Most of them were convinced that Jesus was a devil. And that's what most of you guys think i am.
Not one of us has said that, in fact all of us has expressed we want fellowship and we want to help one another and you to be built up in Christ.

God gave me this scripture 2 nights ago as well:

Matthew 18:15-17
If your brother wrongs you, go and show him his fault, between you and him privately. If he listens to you, you have won back your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two others, so that every word may be confirmed and upheld by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he pays no attention to them [refusing to listen and obey], tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a pagan and a tax collector. [Lev. 19:17; Deut. 19:15.]

I felt God said that we have all been trying to do this, trying to show you you are being prideful, trying to tell you that you judge everyone without truly knowing them. Jesus KNEW the hearts of the Pharisees and that they did things out of a place of pride and that all things really revolved around them and their fame and not around God at all, the Pharisees loved that peolple looked up to them.

But you are most likely members of a 501(c)(3) church ! A state sponsored propaganda workshop !
That is your opinion really, our church has zero money that comes from the South African government. All our money comes from tithing and then we don't even take up tithes. God explicitly told our leaders they should not talk about money or collect it in church and God promised He will provide - and He has, He has opened people's hearts.

Mmm our church teaches people to follow Jesus, to listen to Him and build there whole lives around Him and Make disciples, help others have a intimate relationship with Him - is that Propaganda, all our church podcasts is online for free that you can hear for yourself if you don't believe me...
There is a warning in scripture that you will be judged according to the measure you judge others, it's like you read the heartfelt words of others through the filter of hatred and not love - it's incredibly sad....

You have shown that you don't recognize truths. You believe a false easy grace gospel and you don't recognize Scriptural truths.
The truth of living a Holy Life, casting off all sin and following Jesus? We have all admitted we have casted off all major sin, and we are continually being shaped through Jesus grace to become more holy.... I can quote this for you from several people here as it seems you are willfully ignoring it.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Are you not in a 501(c)(3) church ?
No! I don’t go to the Methodist one anymore - I am loosely involved in a few fellowships and Bible studies but I am by no means a denomination kind of guy. That having been said, I think Protestants have a clearer understanding of the Gospel than Catholics, adult baptism makes more sense than infants etc
 

TokiEl

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Not one of us has said that, in fact all of us has expressed we want fellowship and we want to help one another and you to be built up in Christ.
Why do you say not one has said that i am a devil or a troll or... ? How can you say that when in fact many has said it ?


God gave me this scripture 2 nights ago as well:

Matthew 18:15-17
If your brother wrongs you, go and show him his fault, between you and him privately. If he listens to you, you have won back your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two others, so that every word may be confirmed and upheld by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he pays no attention to them [refusing to listen and obey], tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a pagan and a tax collector. [Lev. 19:17; Deut. 19:15.]

I felt God said that we have all been trying to do this, trying to show you you are being prideful, trying to tell you that you judge everyone without truly knowing them. Jesus KNEW the hearts of the Pharisees and that they did things out of a place of pride and that all things really revolved around them and their fame and not around God at all, the Pharisees loved that peolple looked up to them.
Not all are 501(c)(3) churches. And you might not be in one but most churches are shepherd by hirelings who preach prosperity and easy grace gospel. Your church sounds genuine and wonderful... i'm just saying not all churches are that in fact far from it. So no i am not under the authority of any church but Jesus Christ himself. If i get out of line He let's me know...


The truth of living a Holy Life, casting off all sin and following Jesus? We have all admitted we have casted off all major sin, and we are continually being shaped through Jesus grace to become more holy.... I can quote this for you from several people here as it seems you are willfully ignoring it.
I am not willfully ignoring anything... i am taking a stand against complacency with major sins like adultery and premeditated murder.
 

TokiEl

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No! I don’t go to the Methodist one anymore - I am loosely involved in a few fellowships and Bible studies but I am by no means a denomination kind of guy. That having been said, I think Protestants have a clearer understanding of the Gospel than Catholics, adult baptism makes more sense than infants etc
Ok but i'm sure some christians here are in 501(c)(3) churches.

I am against prosperity and easy grace gospel and for striving to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

Do we got a problem ?
 

Camidria

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Why do you say not one has said that i am a devil or a troll or... ? How can you say that when in fact many has said it ?
You said:
Most of them were convinced that Jesus was a devil. And that's what most of you guys think i am.
I said:
Not one of us has said that,
We don't think you are a devil.

Not all are 501(c)(3) churches. And you might not be in one but most churches are shepherd by hirelings who preach prosperity and easy grace gospel. Your church sounds genuine and wonderful... i'm just saying not all churches are that in fact far from it. So no i am not under the authority of any church but Jesus Christ himself. If i get out of line He let's me know...
I agree, there are churches like that here, like the 3 sister churches in South Africa, the Reformed Christian denomination, Dutch Reformed Church and Reformed Church are churches like that I think.
And there are even some of these churches that have completely removed themselves from the synod that governs them because the synod has started to allow unbiblical things, so I am not saying all of them or their members are teaching wrongfully. (It's been so long since I have been in one of these churches so I cannot judge)

Fellowship is super important, even if you do so with only 3 or 4 people, really this is a biblical principle. I can understand why you are not in any church, I have many friends who aren't as well. But we need fellowship to be built in prayer, to be kept accountable and to grow in our relationship with Jesus.

I am not willfully ignoring anything... i am taking a stand against complacency with major sins like adultery and premeditated murder.
Ok I can understand that. Then do so against the specific people you feel are saying that is ok and in love correct them, it feels like you generelise against everyone, that is where all the problems are I believe.
 

Vytas

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You thought that was an appropriate response to a pretty long post ?
Whatever denominations...They do not define who people are... or should i even comment about you comparing other christians to pharisees and yourself to Jesus whatever to all that. Old dog can't learn new tricks...
 
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