Once Saved Always Saved?

[TokiEl]

And you are talking as if you believe humans are capable of transcending our fallen bodies in this life. I'm not talking about sinning willfully or taking Jesus's sacrifice for granted. Are you seriously yelling me that since you've been saved you've never even had a single sinful thought? You have fully kept the entirety of God's holy standard? Is that what you're saying?

The Holy spirit has the will and the power to stop one from committing sins in ignorance.

 

[Camidria]

For goodness sake @TokiEl haven't you read @Daciple 's testimonial in this thread? It's like you willfully just skip it and decide to judge without having the full picture!

Here is what Daciple said earlier that you willfully miss, I testify this is what I also go through!!

If you were to go back into Sin, then you would become miserable. A Lost person doesnt care that they Sin, they dont feel miserable because they are in Sin, they are CONTENT in their Sin.

A Saved person however, since the Holy Spirit is dwelling in them ETERNALLY, is under constant conviction and is continually drawn back to Christ.

Also go and read his reply to Lisa with part of his testimonial!
And @Claire Rousseau said the same!!!

Who said ANYONE takes comfort in being a sinner??


Literally NOBODY on this board has. Nobody has said we can or should go out and sin it up without a care in the world. You are putting words in our mouths.

 

[TokiEl]

You didn't answer my question though. Since you've been saved have you not indulged any ungodly thought which is biblically equivalent to sin?

Yes as a single man i occasionally indulged in hard core pornography because i wanted to... but Jesus put an abrupt end to that.

 

[TokiEl]

For goodness sake @TokiEl haven't you read @Daciple 's testimonial in this thread? It's like you willfully just skip it and decide to judge without having the full picture!

Here is what Daciple said earlier that you willfully miss, I testify this is what I also go through!!

Self confessed christian sinners all over the board... who don't want to confess what sins they struggle with ?

 

[TokiEl]

Exactly. Because you're still just a man even though you'd been saved. And . . . Jesus ended it? That's basically what other people have been trying to say. Were you not convicted by the Holy Spirit you wouldnt have felt the need to repent and stop what has become secularly accepted as a norm. Christians can sin but it's the Holy Spirit that witnesses to us and leads us into repentance and purity. In our own strength we can't do it.

No i wanted to keep my occasional pornography sessions.

As a single man there was no way in hell i was going to quit watching pornography once in a while... until Jesus forcefully squeezed my left kidney so hard i thought i was going to die. Okay no more i said and that was that. No more porno for me.

 

[Camidria]

You know as a child I got away with doing just as I pleased because my parents didn't discipline me properly, after years walking with God He is sorting me out bit by bit, I hate it when I fall into a place of not listening to Him, but bit by bit with His help I am breaking the bad habit of not listening and He is disciplining me. How many days have I cried because I hate to struggle like this, I hate it that I sometimes willfully don't listen!!!

But I am still in a sanctification process as are all of us!

God has taught me that even though my spirit is holy and righteous before Him because of His free gift of salvation my flesh isn't fully. He is teaching me to RULE over my flesh with the help of the Holy Spirit and break the bad habits of my youth. I WISH it could just be easy and broken immediately but it has taken time.

I admit I struggle not because I freken like to struggle and sometimes not listen but because I admit I NEED GOD to sanctify me.

If you are so bloody perfect @TokiEl great for you. You are extremely blessed then and I WISH my life was sorted out and perfect and that I didn't need to struggle so much with this refinement, I wish it was just fixed!!!!!!!! It would have saved me YEARS of wasted time!!!!!!!!!
Where is the cry face cause that is what I am doing sobbing out of frustration and it's super unfair that I can't just be UBER BLOODY PERFECT like you say you are!!!!!!!

 

[Dalit]

This forum is made up of self confessed christian sinners.

First that is a bloody oxymoron ! And second why can't self confessed christian sinners confess their sins ?

Let me get this straight. You think all the Christians here, who you say are not Christians, should confess their sins to you? You first.

 

[TokiEl]

But that's the point. You made it sound as though once saved it is IMPOSSIBLE to sin, and that every person who admits to messing up on occasion is a false Christian. You forget that God's standard is so high that even lustful thoughts are considered a sin, which you obviously had post-salvation or you wouldn't have felt the need to keep looking at porn. If Christians were capable of being perfect the bible wouldn't have advised cutting off any body part that causes us to stumble -that potent of a metaphor implies we're still very much capable of falling into temptation and are to do everything in our power to overcome it.

The point is that i had no will nor intention of giving up pornography... and that is why Jesus finally intervened forcefully.

 

[TokiEl]

Let me get this straight. You think all the Christians here, who you say are not Christians, should confess their sins to you? You first.

You can't be reading my posts.

 

[Camidria]

Thank you so much for making me cry and showing me that I am not good enough, all this refinement with God is not good enough. This extremely painful process of becoming holy is not good enough.

 

[Lisa]

Again I dont understand why you or anyone else thinks that because one believes they are saved forever would cause one to be lax on sin. Unless you tell me the real reason you dont Sin is because you are scared to lose your Salvation, then there is no difference between us as to why we dont Sin..



I mean this would go both ways Lisa, you do understand that correct? You "ignore" everything I post and then bring verses you think prove what I have said is incorrect.

I dont get frustrated by it, because I understand that is how a debate works. I dont expect you to change your mind, however I do want to influence or give counterpoints to what you say to those who havent made up their minds concerning this, or havent entered into the debate. Thats how a forum works, IDK why it frustrates you so much...



But you dont grieve the Holy Spirit if you are Lost, only Saved people with the Holy Spirit in them grieve Him, so I dont understand how this pertains to Losing your Salvation.

If someone could Lose their Salvation, then that means the Holy Spirit would leave them all together, and therefore they wouldnt feel conviction or condemnation when they Sin, it would be just like before when Sin not only didnt really matter it was actually pleasurable.



I can understand what you mean, but I believe that there is a distinction between how Sin affects a Lost person vs a Saved person, I can testify to this from experience. I believe all those who are Saved now and didnt get Saved as a Child can testify to the difference in being Lost and how Sin affected them vs after Conversion.



I am not saying you dont have any experiences with God, I am saying that in this specific incidence you can not testify to the difference between being Lost and how Sin effected you and being Saved and how Sin effected you, if there is a difference or not.



Practically boasted? Is that really how you see it? Your perspective is skewed, it was not boasting but telling what I went thru and if you read the testimony then you would have read how incredibly miserable I was and how I was being convicted continually, until that day that I feel to my knees begging God to help me Repent!!

And guess what He did, He moved all sorts of miracles in my life. According to you, I would have Lost my Salvation, and according to what the Bible explicitly says once someone Loses their Salvation they can NOT get it back.

So what happened then? I definitely was living in Sin and totally was against God at the time. My mother died and I was completely heartbroken and angry, she was literally the only Saved person in my life. My Dad, my Wife, my Daughter were all Lost. If I was in that position where I was in Sin and directly going against God, well according to you I MUST have Lost my Salvation.

But then I cried out for God to forgive me and help me Repent, and literally 3-4 days later I run into a guy I hadnt seen in 6 years, at a Restaurant I never set foot in before in my life, who just so happened to have been Born Again and became a Preacher. Who invited me to his Church and there have seen my Wife and Child saved by the Grace of God!!

Did I lose my Salvation and get it back? Well it cant be that, and we know that God doesnt hear the prayer of Sinners (John 9:31) so what is it that had to have happened here?

I can tell you what it was, but since it doesnt agree with your preconceived ideology, you will reject it. I was Saved and had a season in my life, where due to hurt and anger I turned from God, but because I am Eternally Saved, I still had the Holy Spirit dwelling in me, convicting me and I could feel Him being Grieved until the day I cried out for Help. Then God answered my Prayers and thru that terrible valley, turned it into my Good in that both my Wife and my Child were Born Again. That time in my life sucked, but the end of it, the fact that I know my family is Saved made it all worth it.

So you explain that, was I Lost? Was I still Saved even tho I did literally what you and Toki say will cause me to Lose my Salvation? Or is my Testimony the Truth, I didnt Lose my Salvation and God never left me as He promised and He pulled me out of that situation and turned it into THE greatest ending I could have ever hoped for?

I see a problem with your replies to me already. You have lumped what I am saying in with @phipps and apparently @TokiEl which is you lose your salvation by just one sin. I have never said that. I have said that I believe a person can lose their salvation but its by degrees and not just once, its a falling away.

I do get frustrated by it, because there is one verse in particular that proves to me at least that falling away is possible but you are so busy trying to throw other verses and personal stories at it that you don’t even understand that unless you can tell me outright that its not true and I don’t think you can...it doesn’t matter what you throw at it.
You would have to read it and from reading it tell me that its not true. That’s why I don’t read anything else you say, because you can’t tell me that that one verse is not true. Throwing other verses at it does not negate what that one verse says.

In fact I have said like the verse in 1Timothy that the falling away is caused by deception and the doctrines of demons. And another verse in Hebrews adds to that and I did a whole post about why I believe what I believe. I don’t know that you have read it because I can’t get past the mountain of words and the fact that no verse can trump that many verses that say you can fall away. I mean the verses literally say you can fall away and you think that other verses or a mountain of words and personal stories trump that? There is no verse that exists that literally says that those verses don’t mean what they say they mean. That is the problem.

Yes, definitely in Hebrews there is a verse that tells us that it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, so ya, I think that means that the Holy Spirit is not in them.

You act like being saved as a child prevented me from sin and having sin in my life that I can’t understand sin. But I can. God begins the good work in us and it takes our whole lives to work that sanctification in us. We are not saved and perfect we are working out our salvation with God, sin come into our lives and we aren’t immune to it. I try not to sin, but the Bible tells us that all sin and I don’t believe that is negates once you believe. And I don’t believe that one sin causes a person to lose salvation.

Yes, that is how I saw it, you seemed to be happy to tells us just how low you got. I am glad that it didn’t turn out bad for you and that your wife and daughter were saved. But you see, it seemed to me that you felt like you could go off and sin like you weren’t saved because of osas. I thought it sent a wrong message not because I have preconceived notions but because it sounded like you were encouraging people to go off and sin because God will bring you back and He’ll save the family too.
However, you’re talking about it again like you are, ya, I can see that God worked good through the bad in your life and I can’t discount that.

 

[TokiEl]

You know as a child I got away with doing just as I pleased because my parents didn't discipline me properly, after years walking with God He is sorting me out bit by bit, I hate it when I fall into a place of not listening to Him, but bit by bit with His help I am breaking the bad habit of not listening and He is disciplining me. How many days have I cried because I hate to struggle like this, I hate it that I sometimes willfully don't listen!!!

But I am still in a sanctification process as are all of us!

God has taught me that even though my spirit is holy and righteous before Him because of His free gift of salvation my flesh isn't fully. He is teaching me to RULE over my flesh with the help of the Holy Spirit and break the bad habits of my youth. I WISH it could just be easy and broken immediately but it has taken time.

I admit I struggle not because I freken like to struggle and sometimes not listen but because I admit I NEED GOD to sanctify me.

If you are so bloody perfect @TokiEl great for you. You are extremely blessed then and I WISH my life was sorted out and perfect and that I didn't need to struggle so much with this refinement, I wish it was just fixed!!!!!!!! It would have saved me YEARS of wasted time!!!!!!!!!
Where is the cry face cause that is what I am doing sobbing out of frustration and it's super unfair that I can't just be UBER BLOODY PERFECT like you say you are!!!!!!!

We press on to perfection and no relationship with Jesus are alike as we are all unique persons.

What i noticed in my relationship with Him is that my willfull pornography sins lasted a long time as i had no intention whatsoever to ever quit watching porn once in a while. I knew it was not only wrong but a sin before God but i was like... You just have to endure it Jesus. And He did for years... until well suddenly He did not put up with it anymore.

And i had absolutely no say in this... it was either death or quit. So i quit.

 

[TokiEl]

Thank you so much for making me cry and showing me that I am not good enough, all this refinement with God is not good enough. This extremely painful process of becoming holy is not good enough.

Well you gave it your best didn't you ?

And it was almost good enough. L0L

I'm just joking with you.

 

[Camidria]

Well you gave it your best didn't you ?

And it was almost good enough. L0L

I'm just joking with you.

Yeah I am sobbing and you think it's funny...

Great, thanks....

 

[TokiEl]

And this is better than someone who fully repented with the intention of giving up all previous vices, goes through a rough patch and falls into sin? You claim earlier that "Christian sinners" is a an oxymoron . . .Yet isn't that what you were? Willfully so, actually? Yet you deride people who only state that giving into temptation is possible even as a Christian?

Yes but i am not a walking talking oxymoron anymore.

I was adamant to slide into Heaven with my porn baggage... but apparently they don't show porn there.

 

[TokiEl]

Yeah I am sobbing and you think it's funny...

Great, thanks....

No tears ever go to waste dear.

 

[Camidria]

No tears ever go to waste dear.

And while your heart remains hard satan keeps on spewing old lies in my ear that I am not good enough, hoping I would fall for them again. Then he has me again in the place where my pity parties are the rule of the day and God's refinement is out the door replaced by old wounds and pain.

Perhaps for once you should ask Jesus if that is the way He works, getting people to a place where they stumble and succumb to the enemy.

 

[TokiEl]

And while your heart remains hard satan keeps on spewing old lies in my ear that I am not good enough, hoping I would fall for them again. Then he has me again in the place where my pity parties are the rule of the day and God's refinement is out the door replaced by old wounds and pain.

Perhaps for once you should ask Jesus if that is the way He works, getting people to a place where they stumble and succumb to the enemy.

My heart is soft and so concerned for souls who no longer strive to be holy. Souls who are complacent with sins and grieve the Spirit. I am here to exhort to holiness and tell truths. I got a lot of smack for this... but i just turn the other cheek and say you can do better.

The end of the age is not years away and so one last spurt doesn't hurt anybody. It's now or never.

 

[Camidria]

My heart is soft and so concerned for souls who no longer strive to be holy. Souls who are complacent with sins and grieve the Spirit. I am here to exhort to holiness and tell truths. I got a lot of smack for this... but i just turn the other cheek and say you can do better.

The end of the age is not years away and so one last spurt doesn't hurt anybody. It's now or never.

And yet even though I strive to be holy and tearfully go through extreme frustration because of this, it's not good enough.

Pray for decernment @TokiEl because many Christians here go through this refinement and we do not advocate sin, we admit that God is still busy with us.

Your continuous words has caused me to fall into satans lies again tonight that I am scum. And it hurts like a daggar being turned in my heart.

 

[TokiEl]

And yet even though I strive to be holy and tearfully go through extreme frustration because of this, it's not good enough.

Pray for decernment @TokiEl because many Christians here go through this refinement and we do not advocate sin, we admit that God is still busy with us.

Your continuous words has caused me to fall into satans lies again tonight that I am scum. And it hurts like a daggar being turned in my heart.

I'm just exhorting to holiness and if that make you feel like scum you might be too hard on yourself. And that's not a bad thing but better than complacency for sure. We press on to perfection even though we might not get there... our striving will make up for it.

As long as we do our best it's more than good enough.