Once Saved Always Saved?

[Daciple]

You know you are the greatest pharisee i've ever had the pleasure to come across.

Just stop. Chill. Pray. Relax.

Stop sinning. Strive.

Using the Bible and History, not your opinion describe the Pharisees, just so we can see how I fit that description...

 

[TokiEl]

So you as the other Works Salvations can not and not address the real issue here, which is Justification vs Sanctification. How are you Justified Lisa? Is it by your Works or is it by the Blood of Jesus?

What is the church slogan ?

Saved by grace through faith only right ?


That grace is the blood of Jesus for remission of sins. And that faith is to believe in Him because then one will live according to His words.



What i and Jesus have a problem with is faith in Him but not living according to His words. That is dead faith.

 

[bible_student]

Where did I say he went to Heaven?

Ok, in that case, fair enough then.

 

[bible_student]

There may be a lot of excuses, one of them being that you're hanging on a cross about to die.

Is baptism recommended? Or commanded? I'm not sure what your point of view is any longer.

John 4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

Jesus didn't do water baptism (even though He received the water baptism of John) because His baptism that He brought is spiritual (fiery) and it supersedes and replaces water baptism. His baptism is from Him personally, with the Holy Spirit, when It comes and then starts to burn out all of the evil from the mind and purifies a believer from within. Writing the Commandments of God on the heart and into the mind.

 

[phipps]

All Jesus wants is for us to live righteously according to His words.

And He paid the price for all sinners who repent and start to live as He said.



Me and Jesus are buddies.

Then you've not understood the Bible on this subject. We have to believe and accept Christ as our personal Saviour then we live righteously according to His words. No one is going to be saved without believing in God.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.

"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:31.

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:9-10.

This next verse tells us what will happen to those who believe and those who don't.

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:36.

Jesus paid the price for sinners who accept Him and repent their sins and live according to His will.

 

[TokiEl]

Then you've not understood the Bible on this subject. We have to believe and accept Christ as our personal Saviour then we live righteously according to His words. No one is going to be saved without believing in God.

You are a pharisee as well.

You search the bible thinking you find life there... very busy copy pasting bible verses but don't get everything right. But that's not the point. The point is to live your life according to the Word of God... that is Jesus Christ.

Jesus is not a religious dummy but the living God of all.

 

[phipps]

You are a pharisee as well.

You search the bible thinking you find life there... very busy copy pasting bible verses but don't get everything right. But that's not the point. The point is to live your life according to the Word of God... that is Jesus Christ.

Jesus is not a religious dummy but the living God of all.

You judge people as though you know them. I'm no Pharisee and I know it and you calling me one doesn't make it so. I have told you repeatedly I copy paste things I already know because I've been a Christian for twenty years. Nothing I'm telling you is new. However you are not going to divert the discussion by telling me what I should and shouldn't do as a Christian and I am a Pharisee. I think you don't like me telling you Bible truths.

You are posting untruths here by saying one doesn't have to believe and accept Christ, they just have to repent and live according to His will. As I've shown from scripture you are wrong. The Bible is clear that we have to accept and believe in God. The Bible says without faith we cannot please God. What is faith? Faith is believing and trusting God.

Watch out how you talk about God. Be respectful always. Do you think people can be saved without following God's Words? Why do you think I keep posting them? Some may not know what the Bible says. We have to know the Word of God to understand and to follow Him. Only those who do will be saved. Here is one more verse about believing and accepting God.

"He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son." 1 John 5:10.

 

[TokiEl]

You judge people as though you know them. I'm no Pharisee and I know it and you calling me one doesn't make it so. I have told you repeatedly I copy paste things I already know because I've been a Christian for twenty years. Nothing I'm telling you is new. However you are not going to divert the discussion by telling me what I should and shouldn't do as a Christian and I am a Pharisee. I think you don't like me telling you Bible truths.

I'm telling you Spirit truths.

All who live their life according to the Word of God are in the Book of Life.

Many churchgoers are not living their lives according to the words of Jesus Christ and are in danger of being blotted out...

Jesus Christ is the Way the Truth and the Life... but knowing this and not living accordingly will not save anybody.

 

[phipps]

I'm telling you Spirit truths.

All who live their life according to the Word of God are in the Book of Life.

Many churchgoers are not living their lives according to the words of Jesus Christ and are in danger of being blotted out...

Jesus Christ is the Way the Truth and the Life... but knowing this and not living accordingly will not save anybody.

I'm telling you Spirit truths.

What spirit? Certainly not the Holy Spirit because what you're telling me is not in line with the Bible.

All who live their life according to the Word of God are in the Book of Life.

You posted this already and I showed you from the Bible the answer.

Many churchgoers are not living their lives according to the words of Jesus Christ and are in danger of being blotted out...

Repeptitive again and you seemed more interested and concerned in what many churchgoers do than in your own salvation. First, get right the truths of the Bible then preach God's word and then leave the rest to God. Its the Holy Spirit that convicts people to turn to God.

Jesus Christ is the Way the Truth and the Life... but knowing this and not living accordingly will not save anybody.

Why are you being so repetitive? If you have nothing to say then say nothing. You already know the answer as I've told it to you from the Bible. I'll leave the rest to God now.

 

[TokiEl]

What spirit? Certainly not the Holy Spirit because what you're telling me is not in line with the Bible.

And that's why i rightly say you're a pharisee.

You don't recognize truths just like them. They were too engrossed in interpreting the bible to appreciate the Spirit.

I never say don't believe in Jesus Christ... but i am very weary of those who say they believe in Him but don't live up to it.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

Believe means to "live by".

Not just to say something.

Faith without works is DEAD.

Believe means to accept as true.

If I tell you I have brown eyes, (which I do) and you believe me, you haven’t done any work, you just believe.

 

[TokiEl]

Believe means to accept as true.

If I tell you I have brown eyes, (which I do) and you believe me, you haven’t done any work, you just believe.

You don't accept it as true if you don't live by it.

 

[bible_student]

Believe means to accept as true.

If I tell you I have brown eyes, (which I do) and you believe me, you haven’t done any work, you just believe.

Yes. It does mean that, and I'm not dismissing the point that you are making.

However, saying you believe is one thing. Proving it with your life (actions) is another.

if I say I believe you, that you have brown eyes, because you have just told me so (which I do).

My life will now have to prove it.

Because, if someone came along now and told me something different (hypothetically) and lets say they showed me a picture of someone who has green eyes and said look, this is Claire.

Then my actions will have to back up what I believe - my belief about you and what you have said to me. And so, I will tell them that no, there must be a mistake somewhere, and that I cannot confirm that this is Claire.

As I believe your eyes to be brown (because you told me so, and I have believed you, and have taken your word for it, even though I've never met you in person).

So our actions (works) have to prove it (prove and be a reflection of what we believe - i.e. living by it).

To put it in contrast, if someone had a picture of someone with green eyes and they went around saying this is a picture of Claire, and lets say, maybe they were accusing you of something. Lets say I heard that, and went over and looked at it and saw the picture of someone with green eyes, but then didn't say anything to dispute their claim that this is supposedly you. If you then heard of it, what would you think then? Would you believe me that I was speaking the truth, when I claimed that I believed you? Because even though I had said that I did... when put to the test, my actions failed to back it up.

"Actions speak louder than words."

 

[TokiEl]

Many churchgoers believe it is enough to just believe in Jesus.

So many will be surprised when Jesus tell them to Go Away !

 

[Claire Rousseau]

You don't accept it as true if you don't live by it.

What is there to live by if I tell you I have brown eyes? You either believe me or you don’t.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

Yes. It does mean that, and I'm not dismissing the point that you are making.

However, saying you believe is one thing. Proving it with your life (actions) is another.

if I say I believe you, that you have brown eyes, because you have just told me so (which I do).

My life will now have to prove it.

Because, if someone came along now and told me something different (hypothetically) and lets say they showed me a picture of someone who has green eyes and said look, this is Claire.

Then my actions will have to back up what I believe - my belief about you and what you have said to me. And so, I will tell them that no, there must be a mistake somewhere, and that I cannot confirm that this is Claire.

As I believe your eyes to be brown (because you told me so, and I have believed you, and have taken your word for it, even though I've never met you in person).

So our actions (works) have to prove it (prove and be a reflection of what we believe - i.e. living by it).

To put it in contrast, if someone had a picture of someone with green eyes and they went around saying this is a picture of Claire, and lets say, maybe they were accusing you of something. Lets say I heard that, and went over and looked at it and saw the picture of someone with green eyes, but then didn't say anything to dispute their claim that this is supposedly you. If you then heard of it, what would you think then? Would you believe me that I was speaking the truth, when I claimed that I believed you? Because even though I had said that I did... when put to the test, my actions failed to back it up.

"Actions speak louder than words."

I do get what you are saying, and we know God knows our heart, so when a person says they believe on Christ and that belief has saved them from Hell, God KNOWS whether this is true or not.

So is your ultimate objective to get them to prove it to you?

Because if it is true, and God already has saved them, what does it really matter to you? Why not be happy for them, and glorify God for pulling another from the flames of Hell?

 

[bible_student]

I do get what you are saying, and we know God knows our heart, so when a person says they believe on Christ and that belief has saved them from Hell, God KNOWS whether this is true or not.

So is your ultimate objective to get them to prove it to you?

Because if it is true, and God already has saved them, what does it really matter to you? Why not be happy for them, and glorify God for pulling another from the flames of Hell?

I was struggling for some time with trying to come up with an answer to your post above that seemed like it would provide a satisfactory answer.

After being at it a while but not having any success, I finally gave up on trying to write it and then decided it was probably best to put it off until a later time and that perhaps some time to think about it was needed. So, later while I was doing something else, I prayed about it and then shortly afterwards the words "unworthy standard" came into my mind. I then knew where to look for this and what it was so I went and found it, to be able to post it here instead and have pasted it below.

(This is a quote that comes from the Christian devotional book called "God Calling & God at Eventide - By the Two Listeners". I believe it is the answer that I was trying to respond with, only, it says it correctly and in a much better way. I hope that this might help with answering it. God Bless, bible student)



Perfect Everything. - March 16

Be ye perfect, even as your Father in Heaven.

That was the aim I set before My disciples when I spoke to them on the Mount.

That is the aim I set before you and every follower of Mine to-day.

To achieve this you would be as God.

To aim at less would mean an unworthy standard.

To keep your gaze on this as your standard means that your eyes are fixed on the Heights of God, always directed above the difficulties and the lower aims and desires and standards of others round you.

https://www.twolisteners.org

 

[Daciple]

What is the church slogan ?

You mean what is the Biblical Doctrine established by the Word of God?

Saved by grace through faith only right ?

We are Saved by Grace thru Faith correct, but I am sure you still dont understand the Concept of Justification vs Sanctification.

Do me a favor, via the Bible, explain Justification and explain Sanctification.

That grace is the blood of Jesus for remission of sins. And that faith is to believe in Him because then one will live according to His words.

Did you not see you ADDED to Grace and Faith right there?

Of course you dont understand because you love your Works, you are full of Pride, its obvious to everyone even in other Threads about other things you boast all day long about yourself...

Regardless, the idea that Faiths without Works is dead is correct, and absolutely no Christian on this site has ever stated anything against that, however you clearly are not able to discern Justification vs Sanctification.

If there is absolutely no change in a persons life, to EVER produce any "Good Works" then they are not Saved, if they are Saved then Works will eventually show up.

However it is NOT whether or not they have Works that merits their Salvation and that is where you and all the other Works Salvationists get everything wrong.

So who do you think does any Works in someone after they get saved? Is it them?

What does Scripture teach concerning who is doing the Works in Saved people?

Its also part of the Scriptures that people use INCORRECTLY to show Works have something to do with Salvation, they such as Lisa who has quoted it on this Thread, dont read the next verse, which puts it all in Context. That crazy thing called Context none of you care about:

Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

So who is doing the Work in those who are Saved? According to Scripture it is God, so if God Himself is the one who is Working in us to do His Will, where do people believe that their Works or lack thereof have any bearing on their Salvation?

If you are Saved you are at sometime gonna produce Good Works, and what happens if you dont do the Good Works? Do you lose your Salvation? What does Scripture say concerning that?

Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

So if you are Saved and are not producing Fruits, doing the Works, you dont lose your Salvation, you get chastised. So I dont know if you are willing to be honest about your walk there Toki, but I and every other Born Again Believer on this site can testify to two things for sure concerning these Scriptures.

That we have at some point NOT done what we ought to have, some for longer periods of time than others, and that when we didnt follow Christ as we should we were CHASTISED by God not for our hurt but to turn us back into Repentance unto Him. Just like the rest of the Scriptures read, if you bother to read them.

We didnt or dont lose our Salvation, we either are Producing Fruit, or being Chastised to return us to Christ so we can start producing Fruit again.

So if you are not either producing Fruit or being Chastised then guess what? You are not Saved, and in comes all the verses I have already posted to Lisa about they among us but not of us, or not all Israel is Israel.

What i and Jesus have a problem with is faith in Him but not living according to His words. That is dead faith.

Yeah but unlike you Jesus knows the difference between Justification and Sanctification. Works have nothing to do with Salvation, save His Work on the Cross, period...

 

[Claire Rousseau]

I was struggling for some time with trying to come up with an answer to your post above that seemed like it would provide a satisfactory answer.

After being at it a while but not having any success, I finally gave up on trying to write it and then decided it was probably best to put it off until a later time and that perhaps some time to think about it was needed. So, later while I was doing something else, I prayed about it and then shortly afterwards the words "unworthy standard" came into my mind. I then knew where to look for this and what it was so I went and found it, to be able to post it here instead and have pasted it below.

(This is a quote that comes from the Christian devotional book called "God Calling & God at Eventide - By the Two Listeners". I believe it is the answer that I was trying to respond with, only, it says it correctly and in a much better way. I hope that this might help with answering it. God Bless, bible student)



Perfect Everything. - March 16

Be ye perfect, even as your Father in Heaven.

That was the aim I set before My disciples when I spoke to them on the Mount.

That is the aim I set before you and every follower of Mine to-day.

To achieve this you would be as God.

To aim at less would mean an unworthy standard.

To keep your gaze on this as your standard means that your eyes are fixed on the Heights of God, always directed above the difficulties and the lower aims and desires and standards of others round you.

https://www.twolisteners.org

I commend you for putting thought into it.

I get that you want Christians in general to care more about being set apart and unworldly. ... I care about that too.

In fact, now more than ever, we have to crucify our flesh daily, pray more, fast more, looking ahead to the 2nd coming of Christ (which, although no one knows the exact date, I really believe will happen in my lifetime, if I live out the next 40 years of the average lifespan).

It is good to challenge ourselves to be more obedient, and call out sin & wickedness in a fallen world that wants us to embrace it.

The world is temporarily owned & operated by Satan. It WILL get WORSE.

It is a sinking ship, and there is nothing we can do to save it. It has already been written.

The most valuable use of our time on earth may seem like trying to “perfect” ourselves, but I’m telling you, it is NOT.

Our MAIN FOCUS must be SHARING the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ in hopes of getting the lost SAVED.

If we only work on bettering ourselves, HOW can we serve others??

We cannot be so self-absorbed that we do not do our first & most important works....getting people saved.

Because at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter if Aunt Linda kicked her nicotine habit but died and went to Hell, does it?

NONE OF IT MATTERS IF PEOPLE DO NOT GET SAVED.

 

[TokiEl]

However it is NOT whether or not they have Works that merits their Salvation and that is where you and all the other Works Salvationists get everything wrong.

Grace is the spilt blood of Jesus for remission of sins. No amount of work can substitute for this Grace.

I and Jesus are just saying that faith in Him is not sufficient but in fact dead if we don't live our lives according to His words.