Once Saved Always Saved?

phipps

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So a aborted baby will be going to hell because they were not babtised?
The Bible teaches that people should be taught before getting baptised. “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.” Matthew 28:19-20. Obviously someone should get baptised after they know why they are getting baptised and should accept Jesus as their personal Saviour. Peter said, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.” Acts 2:38. Babies (aborted or not) can't do that can they? It is impossible for a baby to meet the conditions laid down in the Scriptures. An infant cannot be taught and it is too young to be aware of sin or to repent. So obviously all babies will go to heaven, aborted or not. Infant baptism isn't biblical.

Where its possible we should be baptised (its possible for most of us). The thief on the cross who accepted Jesus could not be baptised. God is an understanding God and knows our hearts better than us. However the Bible is clear baptism is an important step in our Christian walk and we cannot skip it or we won't make it to God's Kingdom.
 
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TokiEl

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Don't put all Church goers in the same basket. I haven't lost my common sense let me assure you of that. It still doesn't change that you are posting things that are not of the Bible. We are not saved by good works.
I know that.

We are saved by the spilt blood of Jesus Christ for remission of sins.

This is Grace.


And this Grace is valid for all who turn from their sins and begin to live their life in accordance with Jesus words.
 

phipps

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I know that.

We are saved by the spilt blood of Jesus Christ for remission of sins.

This is Grace.


And this Grace is valid for all who turn from their sins and begin to live their life in accordance with Jesus words.
They have to accept Jesus too and understand that we can only be saved through Him. Your answer to @Thunderian's question about an unbeliever being saved for their good works didn't indicate that.
 

Camidria

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The Bible teaches that people should be taught before getting baptised. “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.” Matthew 28:19-20. Obviously someone should get baptised after they know why they are getting baptised and should accept Jesus as their personal Saviour. Peter said, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.” Acts 2:38. Babies (aborted or not) can't do that can they? It is impossible for a baby to meet the conditions laid down in the Scriptures. An infant cannot be taught and it is too young to be aware of sin or to repent. So all babies wil go to heaven, aborted or not. Infant baptism isn't biblical.

Where its possible we should be baptised (its possible for most of us). The thief on the cross who accepted Jesus could not be baptised. God is an understanding God and knows our hearts better than us. However the Bible is clear baptism is an important step in our Christian walk and we cannot skip it or we won't make it to God's Kingdom.
I agree with your post here, I have been babtised as an adult specifically because I felt that I understood this principle as laid out in the Bible, and yes I don't agree with infant babtism because you need to understand you are laying down your life and dying to your own will. But your salvation is not dependant on this even though it is a extremely important step to take in your walk as a believer - a sign if you will that you are submitting under Jesus's will for your life.
 

TokiEl

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Why does the Bible say the only way to salvation is through belief in Jesus Christ? Is that a typo?
No typo as Jesus Christ is God so that is correct.

And the most important thing for Jesus Christ who is God is that humans live according to His words.

He absolutely does not care if you believe in Him if you keep transgressing His commands. Just ask the Israelites and the Jews as well.
 

TokiEl

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They have to accept Jesus too and understand that we can only be saved through Him. Your answer to @Thunderian's question about an unbeliever being saved for their good works didn't indicate that.
As long as anybody live according to Jesus words it is all fine !

The problem today is that those who say they accept Jesus Christ are living in sins.
 

phipps

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I agree with your post here, I have been babtised as an adult specifically because I felt that I understood this principle as laid out in the Bible, and yes I don't agree with infant babtism because you need to understand you are laying down your life and dying to your own will. But your salvation is not dependant on this even though it is a very important step to take in your walk as a believer - a sign if you will that you are submitting under Jesus's will for your life.
True. We can only be baptised only when we are aware of faith, repentance, and have true conversion of the heart and that precedes the public renouncing of the old life of sinful bondage. And there is only one way to be baptised. That is to be immersed completely in the water and then we rise from under the water. It is the sign of the death of our selfish, sinful nature. It is is the beginning of a new life with God. The Holy Spirit makes us clean and gives us a new identity and purpose. Paul wrote, “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life...Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Romans 6:3-6.

Salvation is dependent upon Christ but He has told us the steps to take to be saved and baptism is one of them. He has told us "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." John 3:5.
 

phipps

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As long as anybody live according to Jesus words it is all fine !

The problem today is that those who say they accept Jesus Christ are living in sins.
They have to believe, accept and understand there is only one way to be saved and that is through Jesus Christ. There has to be a conversion of the heart. Living according to Jesus' words is not enough. Not according to the Bible.

Again you are judging everyone based on your perceptions. Yes perhaps most who say they accept Christ are living in sins but not all.
 

TokiEl

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I agree here with @phipps, just because the church goers in your area follow a belief that they can just do as they please after they have professed they believe in Jesus, doesn't mean ALL churchgoers are like this!

We are taught in our Church that when you have received Jesus as your Lord and Saviour you should grow and listen to His voice and do as He says - but this is not works based this is about obedience and love. About doing what He says because I love Him and I want to walk in His Will. I stop sinning because He helps and teaches me to stop sinning, He opens up the sins I don't even know of one by one and exposes them and He helps me to work on them, He refines and and makes me more Holy in the process, forever growing in my understanding of His perfection and Love and Will for my life. It is not the case that I need to do everything out of my own strenght, (that's impossible, I wouldn't even know of certain sins without His guidance) it is a process where I obey Him because only He can help me walk in His will.

I give God ALL THE GLORY, if it wasn't for His refining I would still be walking in certain sins, I can never take credit for stopping with those sins, I can only take credit for allowing him to work on me. Even my obedience to Him has sometimes been with grumbling - but as He has helped me mature and kept on pushing me to do the right things now I can do those things in joy.

My Church has been a big factor used by God to call me to live a more Holy life, until you visit all churches around the planet stop judging everyone.

And many of us that you are arguing with are actually doers of the Word, why? Because if you actually get to know some of us you'll see it in our fruits! You do not know us, you do not see our fruits therefore you judge everyone according to your own precepts and standards.... Where is the balance between Grace and bearing fruit only because of God's grace and perfect work in us?

All I see is judgement based on your own experience with people in your own country / area.
I agree with all you say.

I just speak with a broad brush so don't take anything i say personal.

I am a goofball who love the Lord and that's it.
 

TokiEl

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When Jesus said strive for the narrow way and the straight gate He meant to strive for HIM, so of course we also must strive for HIM. You incorrectly make this about Works, because you are insanely Prideful and love to boast about what you are or are not doing to have the right to your Salvation.
Strive to live up to His standards is to strive for Him.

Besides i know salvation is only possible because of the spilt blood of Jesus Christ for remission of sins.

And this is Grace.


No we do our part and live according to His words.
 

TokiEl

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They have to believe, accept and understand there is only one way to be saved and that is through Jesus Christ. There has to be a conversion of the heart. Living according to Jesus' words is not enough. Not according to the Bible.
Every sinner who turns from sins and begin to live righteously is covered by the spilt blood of Jesus Christ.

What i and Jesus have a problem with are all those who believe and accept Him but still sins.
 

Daciple

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I've just quoted it above.
You quoted ONE verse, do you not understand what CONTEXT is?

Yes, like the false teachers of organized religion that teach the opposite of what Jesus said and misuse and abuse His Name.
Or like False Teachers of Cults that claim they are Christ when they are not, like your False Teacher and Prophet. Wake up man...

I follow Christ
No you follow this JAHTruth liar, who is not Jesus Christ period.

Who has already made all of His Prophecies that God gave to Him 2000 years ago and today His Message is still exactly the same.
Indeed the real Jesus Christ who is not your False Prophet has fulfilled all of His Prophecies saved His Return. And His message hasnt changed, you nor your False Prophet speak the Truth of His Message is the Problem.

So, no you are clearly not sure, you are ignorant and it shows, because you CLEARLY have not read "The Way home or face The Fire" yet.
I am 100% sure and yes you are right I have not and will never read that blasphemous lying book. I have read the Bible and put this liar and his ideologies against the Word of God and he is wrong in so many aspects I can not even begin to count, including this one, the idea that Works has anything to do with Salvation.

Honestly almost everything you post on this site and quote from him is incorrect, you need to Repent of following this person, as I have told you dozens of times now...

You really aught to stop following after false Christs like the Pope
Im not a Catholic so I dont follow the Pope, been down this path you either dont read what I write, or are willfully ignorant of what I say.

who's disciples have told you to believe in the catholic trinity doctrine that is not in the Bible
Already a different Thread concerning the Trinity where I gave a very detailed response showing you that the RCC had nothing to do with the Trinity or your next ideology the Sabbath. You should go learn Christian History instead of believing this liar that has you completely brainwashed...

. So it is actually you who are following the false christs and false prophets of organized religion and who therefore needs to repent, and start following Jesus's Words in the Bible.
No sir, I follow the Faith that was instituted since the inception of the Church, by Jesus and the Apostles. You follow a liar who thinks he is Christ but isnt, I seriously have never met anyone so incredibly deceived in my life. It seriously breaks my heart and boggles my mind...

But, you have previously claimed that it is not possible to do what Jesus said, even though He and His Father have said that you must.
Dont know what you are talking about, quote me in what I was saying so I can know what you even mean...

So, you are seeing things exactly backwards and telling me I need to repent, when it is you, because you are following the anti-Christ doctrine of the pope. You should read this article which is about that, and heed the warnings in it:
http://jahtruth.net/darth.htm
Nah, Im not gonna read anything by a guy who lies and says he is Christ. He isnt and the fact he claims so is literally all I need to know that he is a liar and nothing he has to say is worth reading. And yeah it is definitely you who needs to repent, and every single Christian on this site would agree...

You really should read the little Book for once and stop speaking of that which you know nothing about.
Does this man think he is Christ? If so that is all me or anyone else needs to know. Many will come and call themselves Christs but they are not, Jesus will Return exactly as He left, in power honor and glory splitting the skies and all eyes will behold Him. This JAHTruth liar is just a man, who is deluded and insane...

Doctrine after Doctrine I have discussed with you and on everything he teaches he is completely opposed to the Real Jesus, and the fact you can not see this is at once amazing and saddening...

Jesus' disciples and early followers were not called Christians.
Except the Word of God states differently so, who do I believe you and your False Prophet or the Word of God?

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

It is actually going to be Him saying it so I would strongly suggest you study the information contained at the link and then begin to follow and apply it to your life ASAP if you don't want to be one of them.

God Bless.
I will not ever meet that man, unless he repents and follows Christ, otherwise he will be in Hell while I will be in Heaven with the Real Jesus. I hope you repent of following that man so you dont end up in Hell with him...
 
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You quoted ONE verse, do you not understand what CONTEXT is?
https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/once-saved-always-saved.4602/post-200104
the idea that Works has anything to do with Salvation.
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his WORKS.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by WORKS a man is justified, and NOT by faith only.
Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and ALL the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your WORKS.

You can and almost assuredly will try to spin it but the truth is the truth. Faith without works is DEAD.
Im not a Catholic so I dont follow the Pope
Xmas? Easter? Catholic trinity doctrine? You avoided that question before. Which is your right, you don't have to answer. But you know those things are Catholic doctrines. And if you didn't know it before, you do know it now.
Dont know what you are talking about, quote me in what I was saying so I can know what you even mean...
I would have to go and find it. You said, it is not possible to do what Jesus said.
Nah, Im not gonna read anything by a guy who lies and says he is Christ. He isnt and the fact he claims so is literally all I need to know that he is a liar and nothing he has to say is worth reading. And yeah it is definitely you who needs to repent, and every single Christian on this site would agree...
Suit yourself. But know, that the choice to not look, is yours and also know that willful ignorance is no excuse. It's up to you now.
in power honor and glory splitting the skies and all eyes will behold Him.
Yes, that part is yet future, but by then it will be too late for most people.
http://jahtruth.net/mal4.htm
http://jahtruth.net/noah.htm
It is like the times of Noah again.
Except the Word of God states differently so, who do I believe you and your False Prophet or the Word of God?

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
But before then, they were not.
I will not ever meet that man, unless he repents and follows Christ, otherwise he will be in Hell while I will be in Heaven with the Real Jesus. I hope you repent of following that man so you dont end up in Hell with him...
More ignorance.
http://thewayhomeorfacethefire.net
 

Thunderian

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What's your excuse to not get baptised ?
I've been baptised, twice, and we're not talking about me, but the thief on the cross.

So people can be saved without believing in Jesus, but they must get baptised to be saved, except when they don't? That about right?
 
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