Once Saved Always Saved?

Lisa

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I don't know how i can say it and be more clear.

You must actually live life according to what the Saviour said in order to be saved.
Ah...you should have stuck with that. That’s clear.

And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.
‭‭Acts 16:29-31‬ ‭
Notice how they don’t say, do all Jesus said to be saved.
 

Vytas

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One might be born with perfection but when one's personality kicks in that perfection is lost... and it takes work to restore it.
No it takes obedience to holy spirit, which can be trained by being obedient more often. And it's difficult because he tends to ask to do things which we don't wan't to do. We can't come up with anything from ourselves. We don't have insight or understanding and we are carnal in our mindset...
 

TokiEl

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The Holy spirit will
Ah...you should have stuck with that. That’s clear.

And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.
‭‭Acts 16:29-31‬ ‭
Notice how they don’t say, do all Jesus said to be saved.
But the Bible is more than one verse... it's a big Book.

Acts 2 37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Notice how he didn't say believe in Jesus ?

We can't just pick a Bible verse and form a doctrine.
 

TokiEl

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No it takes obedience to holy spirit, which can be trained by being obedient more often. And it's difficult because he tends to ask to do things which we don't wan't to do. We can't come up with anything from ourselves. We don't have insight or understanding and we are carnal in our mindset...
Everybody can choose to change... of course with the Holy spirit one will change.
 

Lisa

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@TokiEl
What do make of this...and in Jesus’ words

this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus *said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.”
‭‭John 3:2-8, 10-17‬ ‭
 

TokiEl

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@TokiEl
What do make of this...and in Jesus’ words

this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus *said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.”
‭‭John 3:2-8, 10-17‬ ‭
What do you make of this... and in Jesus words ?

Luke 13 23“Lord,” someone asked Him, “will only a few people be saved?” Jesus answered, 24“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able.
 

Lisa

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What do you make of this... and in Jesus words ?

Luke 13 23“Lord,” someone asked Him, “will only a few people be saved?” Jesus answered, 24“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able.
No, I think in honesty and fairness you should have to answer the passage I sent you. You want to say we only follow the red letters, or Jesus’s words...those were Jesus’ words. And even He says you believe in Him and are saved.
 

TokiEl

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No, I think in honesty and fairness you should have to answer the passage I sent you. You want to say we only follow the red letters, or Jesus’s words...those were Jesus’ words. And even He says you believe in Him and are saved.
It is also Jesus words what i posted.

We must consult the Bible and first and foremost the red letter words and not just pick a Bible passage here and there to form a doctrine.
 

Lisa

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It is also Jesus words what i posted.

We must consult the Bible and first and foremost the red letter words and not just pick a Bible passage here and there to form a doctrine.
So you won’t look at Jesus own words then? You don’t want to see that you are wrong?

The one picking and choosing seems to be you!
 

TokiEl

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So you won’t look at Jesus own words then? You don’t want to see that you are wrong?

The one picking and choosing seems to be you!
You must synthesize these red letter words into not only your theology but to your life if you don't want to be told off by the Lord God.



Luke 13 23“Lord,” someone asked Him, “will only a few people be saved?” Jesus answered, 24“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able.


John 14 15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


Luke 6 46 Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I say?

47I will show you what he is like who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them: 48He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid his foundation on the rock. When the flood came, the torrent crashed against that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.

49But the one who hears My words and does not act on them is like a man who built his house on ground without a foundation. The torrent crashed against that house, and immediately it fell—and great was its destruction.”
 

Lisa

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You must synthesize these red letter words into not only your theology but to your life if you don't want to be told off by the Lord God.



Luke 13 23“Lord,” someone asked Him, “will only a few people be saved?” Jesus answered, 24“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able.


John 14 15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


Luke 6 46 Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I say?

47I will show you what he is like who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them: 48He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid his foundation on the rock. When the flood came, the torrent crashed against that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.

49But the one who hears My words and does not act on them is like a man who built his house on ground without a foundation. The torrent crashed against that house, and immediately it fell—and great was its destruction.”
Turning your letters red doesn’t matter to me. The scripture I quoted while not in red were in fact Jesus’s own words.
That you feel the need to try to squirm away from the truth says a lot about you. Read all of Jesus’s words and quit picking and choosing what you want to believe ESPECIALLY if you’re gonna say you only go by the red letters.

Face the truth @TokiEl !
 

TokiEl

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Turning your letters red doesn’t matter to me. The scripture I quoted while not in red were in fact Jesus’s own words.
That you feel the need to try to squirm away from the truth says a lot about you. Read all of Jesus’s words and quit picking and choosing what you want to believe ESPECIALLY if you’re gonna say you only go by the red letters.

Face the truth @TokiEl !
I just turn the red letters red because that is the color of the red letters.L0L

I don't know why you take offense to that... and refuse to take into account some of the red letters but i guess it's because those red letters do not comfort to your just believe in Jesus theology. And so you just reject them...
 

Lisa

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I just turn the red letters red because that is the color of the red letters.L0L

I don't know why you take offense to that... and refuse to take into account some of the red letters but i guess it's because those red letters do not comfort to your just believe in Jesus theology. And so you just reject them...
Wow! You really are scared to read all of Jesus red letters. Would it help you if I turned them all to red? Would you read them then?

Honestly, I think your just talking to yourself in that last bit and projecting it onto me. I think you should give up thinking you’re following Jesus’s own words when you reject some because they don’t follow what you want to believe.
 
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I am ALREADY saved.
I meant it for me.

Christ said "if ye love me, keep my Commandments". (John 14:15)

That's like saying, if you love me... keep your promise.

It has NOTHING to do with what I’ve done, though. I’m saved because Christ shed HIS blood to pay for my sins.
It says He shed His blood for our PAST sins.

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath fore-ordained [to be] an atonement through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins THAT ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God;

And He DID...He paid for ALL of our sins, so we can all be saved, you just need to trust that He did. That is FAITH.
Past sins - Romans 3:25

It is simple.

He literally did all the work for us, because we cannot do it ourselves.
God is not stupid. It is not possible to fool God.

God will never ask of us anything that He knows we cannot do (with His help).

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, Who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

To claim such a thing of God, that He would ask from us what He knows we cannot not do.... is WRONG.

THINK about it... Do you really think or believe, that God (Who is Love - unlike Satan) would ever do a thing like that?

I know you say it because that is what Christians all say. But the question anyone who thinks that needs to ask themselves, and really think about, is where does that kind of idea of God really come from?

Who is it, that wants you to hate God (just like he does)? That idea of God (God is Good - Love, Good and Truth) does not come from God.

Jesus said, with God, ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26). So who is speaking the truth? Jesus? Or the one who tells people they can't do what God asks?

The truth is we can do it with His help, and that is also what He wants us to do.. to show you, that with Him, anything is possible.

It is our gift from God that Christ paid for.

He will give it to you if you REALLY BELIEVE it—-just ask Him for it.
Of course it is. But it's supposed to be a relationship, God wants to have a relationship and a walk with us. That's the only way we can get to know Him for real. Many people talk about it, and knowing God and being "saved" but what does that really mean if we don't seek to have the relationship and walk with God? If you ask Him to guide you, and show you, and teach you, and help you to learn how to do His Will, and what He wants you to be doing each and every day, then He will, because God is waiting for us to ask Him.

God does not force us to Love Him because He knows there would be no point in it. He loves us all, but we have to choose to love Him back. God Bless.

John 14:15
 

TokiEl

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Wow! You really are scared to read all of Jesus red letters. Would it help you if I turned them all to red? Would you read them then?

Honestly, I think your just talking to yourself in that last bit and projecting it onto me. I think you should give up thinking you’re following Jesus’s own words when you reject some because they don’t follow what you want to believe.
You must consult the whole Bible but first and foremost the red letter words and synthesize everything into a sound doctrine. Not just cherry pick Bible verses to form your own personal theology.

Just believe in Jesus is just that... it's the result of cherry picking a salvation doctrine while rejecting everything else which clearly contradict that doctrine.
 

Lisa

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You must consult the whole Bible but first and foremost the red letter words and synthesize everything into a sound doctrine. Not just cherry pick Bible verses to form your own personal theology.

Just believe in Jesus is just that... it's the result of cherry picking a salvation doctrine while rejecting everything else which clearly contradict that doctrine.
Are you still talking to yourself here. You have already proved you won’t go near those verses I posted for you, you’ve lost all credibility with me.
 

TokiEl

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Are you still talking to yourself here. You have already proved you won’t go near those verses I posted for you, you’ve lost all credibility with me.
I've given up on modern christian mainstream a long time ago.

They are all pharisees to me.


And yes i talk to guests who are hopefully not captured by mainstream christianity yet.
 
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YOU WILL FAIL MISERABLY.
If at first you don't succeed... then you get back up and you think about what it was that caused you to fail, and then you ask God to please help you to understand why, and to show you what you are doing wrong, so that you can make the needed corrections to be able to do better next time. And then you go on, until you are finally able to overcome whatever it was, that caused you to fail.

God wants to help us.

He wants us to succeed, with His help and with Him providing us with the strength to do His Will for us. He wants us to be happy, and that success that you will eventually have if you persevere and trust Him to help you and show you and give you the needed strength, every step of the way, that will bring you something even better than happiness - JOY.

Joy - true spiritual joy, that no man (or woman) can take away from you, because it is real and lasting, unlike temporary and fleeting human happiness. And you will also feel much better about the person that God has helped you to become (with His help - always with His help) and you will eventually also be able to start to actually really like the person that He has helped you to become.

You just have to ask Him and trust that He will show you how. God is Good and loves to see His children happy and joyful.

I grew up Christian. And did it all.. did baptism, did being "saved", did churches, did it all. But it was not enough. I still had questions, because life here, even after all that, still was relatively miserable and I needed to understand why. Even though I was blessed in so many ways, and much more that I deserved, life here was still pretty miserable. If not in one way, then it is in another. Like when people die, to name one thing. I had (relatively) good, kind and loving parents, nice siblings and really nice surroundings (with lots of nature, trees etc close to home) where I grew up and which I liked and really very little to complain of while growing up. Much of the time, it was great. But the world still was a bad place (because of people mostly and how people can be).

But at some point I came to ask, why? Why does life here have to be this way? Why is it so difficult, why is there so much suffering and why does it seem like it is futile for so many people to find real and lasting happiness? The one day the answers started coming. I was learning lots of new things, discovering that the world we are in, is basically (as far as the worldly system goes) built mostly, if not almost totally, on lies. Somewhere, someone lies, due to selfishness and/or greed or for whatever other insane reason. God heard me and many answers began to come. People here lie like hell. All the time people lie. Why? I was learning a lot and discovered that a big and crucial part of the cause of all of this suffering is that people have become slaves to the oppressive Babylonian market "beast" system that drains the life out of people. I discovered that the system has been designed to make slaves of everyone, to the rich, who use it to benefit just them and at the expense of everyone else, while also destroying and polluting the planet because of how wasteful it is.

So, is that all what it means to be saved then? Having to undergo all this suffering, having to slave away at your slave job (place of employment) and having to watch your friends and family go through it too. And even if they can't or won't see it, you still can. Until one day when it will all finally be over with... so that then we can all go to heaven? But until then, we've got to keep slaving away to keep the system going. And all those churches (where the oppressed people go so they can get "saved") remember, they need the money too, so more people can come and be "saved" too and it all just keeps going on and on while the world just keeps getting worse and worse but they tell everyone not to worry because in the end it is all going to be ok.

Yet in the meantime, everyone is oppressed except for the select few who know how the system works and don't mind making it work exclusively just for them, which means everyone else is getting constantly ripped off and have to be exploited, suffer and work as slaves for the rich, so that the rich people can continue to be wasteful and greedy. And the irony? The rich people are not happy EITHER. All the rich people are miserable. Nobody wants to be their friend for real, even though there are always people who will be willing to hang around (for the handouts). Rich people are not happy, they lie awake at night and worry about how they are going to try and keep from losing it all, when that is also futile, because eventually they do lose all of it.

Eventually God showed me that the reason everyone is so unhappy is because no one is following the Instructions He gave, which is the only way that leads to not only happiness but also to JOY. And that can only start once we stop rejecting God. It's not God's fault that people are unhappy. It's not God's fault that people suffer, either. WE do all of that. We cause it, because we choose it, because of wanting to go our "own" way, instead of the right way (and our "own" way is not really our own because it's Satan's way really, because whenever we are not listening to God, we are automatically listening to Satan).

The only way, to make the world a better place, where people can live and be happy as long as they are here, is by going back to the Law and learn to live by the Eternal Principles we were given in God's Law. That is the recipe for success and we need to learn it, to know it, to then be able to Live by it.

And we need to learn to do that before we can go to heaven, because that is what people in heaven are like and they all live by God's Laws and they don't break it, like people do here. We are here, because we did, so now, we have to re-learn to keep God's Laws and Ways and not our own, before we can go back to heaven where we all originally came from.

So to me, I now see Salvation actually lies within that. It is actually contained within God's Law, and it has been in there all along.. in God's Law there is Salvation. Because, it and learning the Eternal Principles in it, is what actually prepares you for being able to live a REAL Life. Through The Law God teaches us how to live, and how to actually know how to relate in a healthy way with any and all people and situations. It teaches you God's Wisdom, His Ways and His Way of thinking, which is the only really SANE Way of thinking and it's the recipe for success. And as a bonus, God Blesses you when you make the effort to learn it and keep it. You could try keeping the real Sabbath as a test. Don't go shopping, do the shopping on another day, etc. Be different than the world, don't worry about what your friends might say. Do your best to explain to them why, if they ask, and if they want to be negative, just smile at them and tell them that you want to do it. And see what happens. You might be surprised, even if just with the peace of mind just doing that can bring. It feels good to do the things that are pleasing to God.

So at this point I've come to see it as a journey and not only a destination. Scripture talks of the hope of salvation - 1 Thessalonians 5:8. There is a journey described in the Bible for whoever wishes to walk it.

Being "saved" also means being made FREE - True Freedom (God's Law is known as the Perfect Royal Laws of Liberty) and going back to keeping only God's Laws, is the ONLY Way to put an end to all of the evil that is constantly going on in this world.

There is an inscription on the Liberty Bell (which is a partial quote from God's Law) -

Leviticus 25:10 And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim Liberty throughout [all] the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.

Let Freedom ring.

1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
 
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