Once Saved Always Saved?

[Red Sky at Morning]

It is a yes or no answer, Toki.

Did you commit any sin after you got saved?

Yes or no?



That sounds like “Lordship Salvation”, which is unbiblical.

You are still clinging to the notion that salvation is by works.

It’s not. It is grace.

There is nothing we can DO to earn our salvation. If we have been genuinely saved, there is nothing we can do to lose it either.

That’s all once saved always saved means....the minute we are saved/born again by the Holy Spirit, our spirit is REDEEMED by the blood of Jesus Christ.

If He “took it away” due to backsliding, that would make God a liar, and we know that God CANNOT lie.

1- Father God I wonder how I managed to exist without the knowledge.

Of your parenthood and your loving care.

But now I am your child I am adopted in your family.

And I will never be alone Cause Father God your there beside me.

2- (I will sing praises I will sing praises I will sing praises forevermore)(2x)

​

I have read all of your posts on this subject and it seems that your statement here and then everything that follows are in contradiction. You say that Salvation comes by Grace, we dont deserve or had to work to earn it, then you begin to write an essay on how we need to WORK to keep our Salvation.

If we did nothing to earn it then there is nothing we can do to keep it, or else its not by Grace but Works.

I really wish you would speak your own mind and your own thoughts instead of constantly copy and pasting everything from that site, no one wanting to have conversations with those people who write those articles, we want to have conversations with Phipps not Walter...

With that said your copypasta concerning Hebrews 6 doesnt actually address the issue, it skirts around it. It brings up a lot of the Saints that fell away and then Repented, however what you nor that article is addressing is did these people LOSE THEIR SALVATION. Thats the crux of the matter, no one disagrees that we can backslide, fall away, ect then Repent. The matter is, when someone backslides or whatever term it is that you want to stick in here, have they actually LOST THEIR SALVATION.

Would you say David LOST his Salvation and then earned it back?

Samson LOST his Salvation and then earned it back?

Elijah LOST his Salvation and then earned it back?

Peter LOST his Salvation and then earned it back?

THAT is the actual question, one which you nor your articles seem willing to have a conversation about, would you say that YOU have actually Lost your Salvation and then earned or got it back? If so how did that go?

When I quoted that verse it was specifically to show one thing, IF you lost your Salvation then you CAN NOT get it back. This has zero to do with backsliding or falling away, it is about ONE thing, LOSING Salvation.

Since we know with zero doubts that no one can LOSE Salvation and then get it back, we know that none of the people in your article qualify as LOSING their Salvation because all of them Repented and are part of the Hall of Faith. NONE of them LOST Salvation, their Salvation was still secure even when they were embroiled in Sin and David for instance was in the midst of Adultery and Murder. If he did NOT lose his Salvation while committing Adultery and Murder then what Sin is it that YOU, not Walter or someone else, believe can cause you to actually LOSE your Salvation?

Lets actually speak about LOSING Salvation, not backsliding or losing Faith for a time, I am talking about actually LOSING Salvation.

When do we lose it?

What qualifies as losing it?

Why are we responsible to KEEP Salvation, when Salvation is directly given to us by Faith thru Grace and the FINISHED Work of Christ?

If our Salvation is only dependent upon Christ then at what point does it become OUR Responsibility to keep Salvation?

I can tell you my personal testimony, I have struggled with Sin, I have had times after my mother passed away that I turned from Christ in the fact that I was angry and hurt, I didnt understand, I turned into the World to try and dull the pain which of course isnt right. However thru all of this, I never lost Faith in the fact that Christ died on the Cross for my Sins, that Salvation comes from Him and Him alone. I never could have denied ANYTHING concerning Jesus and His Work ect.

If one could have LOST their Salvation then I was the candidate, I was entrenched in the World and purposefully refused to go to God cuz I was so hurt and mad, but the question is did I LOSE my Salvation because of where I was in Faith in and in Sin?

No Sir I didnt lose my Salvation, I still had the Holy Spirit dwelling in me, He was constantly convicting me of my Sin, constantly trying to drag me to Repentance and back to Christ. IF I had Lost my Salvation then the Holy Spirit would have left me, and I would have never been getting Convicted in my Sin, and NEVER would have had that constant desire to Repent and cry out to God.

Eventually I couldnt take it any longer, and I fell to my knees cried out to God and He moved in a miraculous way, restoring my Relationship with Him, bringing me to a Gospel Preaching Church, where I saw my Wife, my Daughter, my Niece and my Brother In Law all get saved!

God didnt take my Salvation from me because I veered off and was struggling, instead He walked with me even when I felt at my most alone, He guided me and protected me even when I tried to run away from Him, He loved me at my worst, just like He did when He went to the Cross for me.

It is a horrible thing to teach that people can lose their Salvation, first off it is not supported by the Bible, it makes Jesus and God into a liar:

Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

2 Tim 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

I could quote hundreds more but this is sufficient to prove that Jesus and God state that they will never leave nor forsake us and will be with us until the end of the World. Getting Salvation isnt earned by our performance, and keeping Salvation isnt earned by our performance, it is all by Faith.

Now your contention with Eternal Salvation that I have noticed is the idea of Free Will, that men must have the Free Will to walk away and thus why I keep trying to get you to move a bit away from Walter and try looking at the idea of Molinism, which accounts for mens Free Will. In simple terms, when someone is truly Born Again and truly receives Salvation, when they truly taste the goodness of God, while they still have the Free Will to walk away from Christ, they never actually will or do.

Just as in my personal testimony, I was saved, I walked or tried to walk away from God, He still followed me, and after the Holy Spirit kept up His job of convicting me, I finally Repented and came back. No matter how far I have ever been from God, I could never deny Him and have always felt the Holy Spirit moving to bring me back to Him.

You cant lose your Salvation Phipps, if so tell me where that line is, and if you continue to preach that people can lose their Salvation then please stop lying to Christians and tell them that once they have lost their Salvation they can come back, they can not..

The clip I posted up earlier by Andy Woods addressed Hebrews 6: 5-6 as well as anything I have ever listened to.

If I could have lost my salvation by becoming a prodigal son, I would perhaps be thrice damned by now, Brother!

That having been said, it is Grace that leads us to holiness and gratitude, not the fear of a lost salvation.

 

[gcha8e]

So what are we saved from? What is salvation?

Predestination is confusing because the idea of salvation is often confused with confession. Salvation is what comes with the resurrection. Salvation is always always always to be saved-from-death.


Romans 10:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

When will you be saved? It doesn't really say when. It just says it's a sure thing.

To be unsaved would be to inherit an eternal-immortal body, and then ... die. We will all die one mortal death, including those who see Christ return, when he raptures, and gathers the souls of the saints, and their bodies fall to the ground (where the vultures gather).

Go ahead and check each verse that deals with salvation, it is always forward looking, there is no such thing as "saved" in the mortal life, it doesn't exist. All that we can have is the ASSURANCE of salvation. Most translations seem to botch this when it comes to the verbs. For instance "have been saved" is really "are being saved".

 

[TokiEl]

I am happy to dialogue with you further, Toki.......I only ask that you please answer the question I have asked you thrice already, and now for the fourth time:

After you got saved, did you commit sin??

YES

or

NO

You ask...

After you won the game, did you commit fault ??



And so i answered that this question doesn't fit.

How can i commit fault when the game is over and won ?


Still this is what you ask...

What do you want me to say ?


I'm still in the game and so are you !

 

[TokiEl]

So what are we saved from? What is salvation?

Predestination is confusing because the idea of salvation is often confused with confession. Salvation is what comes with the resurrection. Salvation is always always always to be saved-from-death.

God is not surprised.

Some might be surprised... both good and bad. Some believe they will make it but will not. And some don't believe they will make it but will.

At the resurrection... we will see.

 

[TokiEl]

Claire Daciple RedSky and all.

Are you sure you are not one of those guys ?

Matthew 7 22"Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’"

I mean they sure seemed sure about their salvation.


Now i don't know who is saved or not but time will tell right.

Patience ?

 

[Todd]

So what are we saved from?

The power of sin
John 8:31-36
Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, ‘If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.’ They answered Him, ‘We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’ ? ‘ Jesus answered them, ‘Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Titus 2:11-14
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works

Romans 6:17-23
But God be thanked, that you were the servants of sin, but you have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, you became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as you have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when you were the servants of sin, you were free from righteousness. What fruit had you then in those things whereof you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Matthew 1:21
She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins

Romans 5:21
So that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 John 2:1-2
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world

 

[gcha8e]

The power of sin
John 8:31-36
Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, ‘If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.’ They answered Him, ‘We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’ ? ‘ Jesus answered them, ‘Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Titus 2:11-14
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works

Romans 6:17-23
But God be thanked, that you were the servants of sin, but you have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, you became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as you have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when you were the servants of sin, you were free from righteousness. What fruit had you then in those things whereof you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Matthew 1:21
She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins

Romans 5:21
So that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 John 2:1-2
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world

There is a relationship between sin, death, and the law. But the verses you cited don't explicitly say that being saved is to be saved from sin.

1 Corinthians 15:56, “The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.”

That doesn't mean that the death stings us, causing us to sin. It means that sin is empowered (caused) by the law, and it's sting causes death. (IOW sin stings us to death).

law causes sin, sin causes death (meaning permanent death). To be saved, is to be saved from death. You are not saved until you've been raised from death.

Baptism is the symbol if being raised with Christ (to put our hope in his power to save us out of death, to identify with his risen, eternal nature)

 

[Todd]

There is a relationship between sin, death, and the law. But the verses you cited don't explicitly say that being saved is to be saved from sin.

1 Corinthians 15:56, “The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.”

That doesn't mean that the death stings us, causing us to sin. It means that sin is empowered (caused) by the law, and it's sting causes death. (IOW sin stings us to death).

law causes sin, sin causes death (meaning permanent death). To be saved, is to be saved from death. You are not saved until you've been raised from death.

Baptism is the symbol if being raised with Christ (to put our hope in his power to save us out of death, to identify with his risen, eternal nature)

I posted straight scripture with no interpretation. The fact that you felt a need to post a rebuttal says a lot.

 

[TokiEl]

There is a relationship between sin, death, and the law. But the verses you cited don't explicitly say that being saved is to be saved from sin.

1 Corinthians 15:56, “The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.”

If there is no Law there is no sin.
If there is Law there is sin.

There is a Law.
So there is sin.

Breaking the Law is a sin.

Anybody broken the Law ?
Absolutely !

What to do ?
Repent !

What will that do ?
Transfer your sin.

To whom ?
Jesus Christ.

He got my back ?
Yes. If you repent !

Nobody likes a smug sinner.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Claire Daciple RedSky and all.

Are you sure you are not one of those guys ?

Matthew 7 22"Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’"

I mean they sure seemed sure about their salvation.


Now i don't know who is saved or not but time will tell right.

Patience ?

Romans 8

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

 

[TokiEl]

Romans 8

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

They were very sure about their salvation.

So surprised... Lord Lord.

Didn't we this didn't we that.

Well we will hope they are not us.

Can you believe how sure they were ?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

They were very sure about their salvation.

So surprised... Lord Lord.

Didn't we this didn't we that.

Well we will hope they are not us.

Can you believe how sure they were ?

Let me ask you -

Was their confidence in their salvation based on what they did or He did.

Depending on your answer, it might tell you why I have an unshakable confidence in Jesus as my Lord and Saviour.

 

[TokiEl]

Let me ask you -

Was their confidence in their salvation based on what they did or He did.

Depending on your answer, it might tell you why I have an unshakable confidence in Jesus as my Lord and Saviour.

One gotta do something.

And that something they did in His name.

Wonderful works.

Miracles healing exorcism prophesying.

Didn''t they know what He did ?

Is that it... didn't they know that He died for them ?

I mean that must be common knowledge in those circles.... so where did they go wrong ?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@TokiEl

Matthew 7 22" Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’"

In response to your question, I found the article below very relevant. I won't copy and paste it but for anyone who has read the passage above and doubted their salvation, I recommend reading the article below:-

http://www.bereanbiblechurch.org/transcripts/matthew/som/7_21-23.htm

 

[phipps]

No Man Can Pluck Out

Let us look at the text which has probably been quoted more than any other to support the doctrine of eternal security. Jesus said, "I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 10:28, 29.

What a tremendous promise this should be for every trusting child of God! At first glance, it does seem to guarantee some sort of immunity against spiritual loss, but we have not read the entire text. Verse 27 is an integral part of the thought, and it lays down a specific condition for the fulfilment of the promise in verses 28 and 29. "My sheep hear my voice and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life." Please notice that it is only God's true followers who nestle safely in His protecting hand. He gives eternal life only to the faithful sheep who hear and follow Him. It is this hearing and following which provides immunity against being plucked away by the devil or his agents. The protection is from enemies without who seek to carry off the sheep, but not from unfaithfulness of the sheep who might choose not to follow any longer. No one can pluck them out of the Father's hand, but they may choose to jump out at any time. God never even hints that He will interfere with the freedom of choice of His followers. Christians can choose to be lost just as surely as sinners can choose to be saved.

Just think how useless would be all the hundreds of biblical warnings against apostasy if it were impossible to experience it. Why would the Spirit have led Paul, Peter, and all the others to pen such solemn threats and admonitions against eternal loss if they were in no danger of suffering it? And if it is true that the "once saved" are eternally secure, surely the devil would know it. Therefore, he would never waste any time on believers, knowing how impossible it would be to cause them to be lost. Yet, we all know by experience that Satan works even harder to pull away the saints from following Christ.

We have to conclude that salvation does not consist of a single, irrevocable commitment, whether past or present. Being saved is the experience of living Christ's own life by divine imputation and impartation. It is never a reality except in continual, dynamic relationship with Jesus, the source of eternal life. Being saved must be spoken of in all three tenses of time in order to be completely biblical. It has happened, it is happening, and it will happen.

 

[phipps]

What Does It Mean for the Christian to Leave His "First Love"?

"Nevertheless, I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy FIRST LOVE. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent." Revelation 2:4, 5, emphasis added.

For the Christian to leave his first love, is to backslide, to fall away, to leave the Lord and His service, and to go over to the service of sin, Satan and the world. The Lord calls upon all such to repent and do their first works (the fruits of love), or else - else what? "I will take thy candlestick out of his place." This is an ultimatum from the Lord. If the sinner responds, repents, returns to his first love, and does his first works, all is well and good - he will be saved. But it is his to choose. If he does not do this, his light is removed, goes out, and the backslider is lost.

Does the Backslider Always Return to the Lord Before Death?

No, far from it. That was the case of the first king of Israel, Saul. It is written of Saul that he was "turned into another man." "And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be TURNED INTO ANOTHER MAN." 1 Samuel 10:6 emphasis added. Yet Saul backslid from his high and exalted position, disobeyed the Lord, and at last took his own life (1 Samuel 31:1-6). It cannot be said in this case that Saul was not converted, because God says that he was. Yet, he took his own life with no opportunity of repentance.

Anyone who says any different is rejecting the word of God.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

People who believe in eternal security believe their Salvation is not connected with obedience, or advancing spiritual growth. Its focussed on a past moment when they made a decision for Christ. Whether they obey or disobey any subsequent revelation of truth, it has no influence whatsoever on their final destiny. They could break the fourth commandment, the seventh commandment, or all of them, and still feel eternally secure in the promise they had claimed "when they were saved." These people believe that their disobedience might affect the joy and peace of their relationship, but never the assurance of ultimate salvation.

Does salvation consist of one grand, holy moment of decision, or must we continue in the saving grace of Christ after that decision?

Nowhere in the Bible is entrance into God's kingdom tied to a momentary - or even temporary - faith experience of the past. Salvation is a dynamic, growing relationship with the only One who has eternal life to bestow. It requires continuing contact in order to receive it. The very life of God can be shared with men but NEVER APART FROM A LIVING UNION WITH CHRIST! "He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." 1 John 5:12.

Just as the constant creative energy of God is necessary to sustain the universe and to hold atoms together, so His divine power is constantly needed to maintain spiritual life in the soul. When a person wilfully chooses to separate from God, the contact is broken, and the spiritual life ceases to flow. God will not violate the will of anyone in making that choice either. For proof that Christians can lose their connection with Jesus and be lost, read John 15:1-6. There Christ explains one of the great mysteries of eternal life. "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." Verses 5, 6.

I know you meant sarcasm in your first paragraph, but you really actually nailed it there.

Then you go into a whirlwind of works-based tangents using verbs like "continuing", "maintain", "sustain", "growing", etc.

Those describe maturing as a Christian/living a Christian Life, which yes----that DOES require work, like going to church, reading & studying the Bible, going soul winning, prayer, fasting, obedience and so on. I am NOT denigrating the importance of all those things. We ought to do all those things and I will never say that we should not.

What I am saying is NONE of those can EVER save us, and by tying those in with BELIEVING in the sinless life, death, burial & resurrection of Jesus Christ, you are teaching (whether you realize it or not) a false gospel based on our works.

The Bible is clear:


“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."...........John 5:24

According to the verse above, hearing & believing means one now HAS everlasting (lasts forever) life, one will NOT be condemned , but IS (presently)......passed (past tense) from death to life.

Sounds like an instantaneous event to me.

And How can John 5:24 be true if salvation had to be "maintained" by us throughout our life?

And what about THE most famous Bible verse ever (John 3:16)?

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."........John 3:16

What does it say to do so we do not perish, but have everlasting life?

BELIEVE.

Salvation is easy for us because Jesus Christ already DID what needed to be done on our behalf, because it is impossible for us to do it. One tiny little sin is ALL it takes to earn the wages of Hell. And we probably sin every day.

Don't Pat yourself on the back.....you are NOT worthy of going to Heaven, not by a long shot. I'm not either. And there is nothing I could ever do to ever become worthy.

That ship sailed the very first time I ever committed a sin.

I cannot take credit for my salvation because I don't deserve it.

Thank God that Jesus was so perfect that His goodness is capable of paying the debt of sin for everyone who ever lived.

Jesus paid it all.

 

[TokiEl]

@TokiEl

Matthew 7 22" Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’"

In response to your question, I found the article below very relevant. I won't copy and paste it but for anyone who has read the passage above and doubted their salvation, I recommend reading the article below:-

http://www.bereanbiblechurch.org/transcripts/matthew/som/7_21-23.htm

That was a pretty good article and i like how they didn't look light on obedience.

It's very important to obey the commandments of God... else one may be swayed by seducing spirits or doctrines of devils.

And say and do things that is not in accordance with the will of the Father... but with the will of the Adversary.


Keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

That was a pretty good article and i like how they didn't look light on obedience.

It's very important to obey the commandments of God... else one may be swayed by seducing spirits or doctrines of devils.

And say and do things that is not in accordance with the will of the Father... but with the will of the Adversary.

Just so you know, I believe the following as an axiom for Christian living:-

Galatians 5

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

[TokiEl]

I know you meant sarcasm in your first paragraph, but you really actually nailed it there.

Then you go into a whirlwind of works-based tangents using verbs like "continuing", "maintain", "sustain", "growing", etc.

Those describe maturing as a Christian/living a Christian Life, which yes----that DOES require work, like going to church, reading & studying the Bible, going soul winning, prayer, fasting, obedience and so on. I am NOT denigrating the importance of all those things. We ought to do all those things and I will never say that we should not.

What I am saying is NONE of those can EVER save us, and by tying those in with BELIEVING in the sinless life, death, burial & resurrection of Jesus Christ, you are teaching (whether you realize it or not) a false gospel based on our works.

The Bible is clear:


“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."...........John 5:24

According to the verse above, hearing & believing means one now HAS everlasting (lasts forever) life, one will NOT be condemned , but IS (presently)......passed (past tense) from death to life.

Sounds like an instantaneous event to me.

And How can John 5:24 be true if salvation had to be "maintained" by us throughout our life?

And what about THE most famous Bible verse ever (John 3:16)?

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."........John 3:16

What does it say to do so we do not perish, but have everlasting life?

BELIEVE.

Do not forget beloved that to believe is to comply and to hear is to do.