Once Saved Always Saved?

[phipps]

if you're a true born again Christian, you cannot lose salvation. how can you lose something you never earned? why doesn't God just kill or rapture once you've obtained salvation? it's ridiculous to maintain salvation after having obtained it. You are SEALED until the day of redemption. It's DONE!.... salvation is not a progress.

if someone claimed to be born again Christian, then 10 years later converted to Chrislam, they were NEVER saved to begin with. They didn't "lose" salvation, they just never had it.

btw, this verse;
"He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matthew 24:13

Is talking about IF the believer can endure THROUGH the tribulation, their FLESH shall be saved.... mean they will never tasted death.
Saved here is not talking about salvation but rather physically saved from being kill or dying a natural death.

For example, Peter asking Jesus to save him...he's not calling upon the name of the Lord asking for salvation.

Matthew 14:30 King James Version (KJV)
30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.

Some haven't and won't endure till the end will they? That's why Jesus says, "He that shall endure unto the end", meaning some won't endure. Its those people who will be lost eternally. Only those who have a continued relationship with Christ and overcome are the ones who will be saved. That is why Paul wrote, "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." 1 Corinthians 10:12. Anyone of us can fall at any time. I can cite you several examples in the Bible of people who had a saved relationship—they were spirit-filled—and for whatever reason they turned from the Lord, they backslid. Peter puts it this way, as the pig who is washed, they return to wallowing in the mire. King Saul was chosen by the Lord, anointed, filled with the Spirit, but he became proud and grieved away the Holy Spirit and took his own life. Is the Bible lying that Saul was all those things? Even Judas was sent out preaching with the other eleven apostles but he kept clinging to that sin of covetousness until he denied the Lord and sold Him, and Judas lost his salvation, he lost his relationship with the Lord. So there are a number of examples in the Bible. To say that only those who were never saved fell is not biblical, unless you're claiming the Bible lied about those people it says were saved and fell.

Only those who do His will will be saved and go to heaven. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23

Many Christians have become complacent and think because they gave their lives to Christ they are saved no matter what they do. The danger of the teaching that once you’re saved you can’t be lost, takes away our free will too. We’re always free to choose to love the Lord. God does not take away our freedom once we accept Him. Here’s another example: 1 Corinthians 9:24-27, Christian, know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things.

Ezekiel 18:24: But when the righteous man turns away from his righteousness, and this is talking about a saved man, and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All his righteousness that he has done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die. In other words, a person who was righteous can turn away and they’ll be lost.

Being saved is conditional to us being faithful and obedient to God's word. We need to co-operate with Him to work within us to change us from carnal to spiritual people who love and obey Him. Its a choice. Because God loves us He respects us and gives us choice. He appeals to us to do the right thing but ultimately its our choice. That is why many will go to hell. They will have made choices not to follow Christ and God will respect their choices in the end.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

The works of God

John 6

27Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[phipps]

There is a great video series called "What's So Amazing About Grace."
It gives some really well illustrated examples of this.

phipps, I heard a decidedly "anti-calvinist" bent to your argument.
I get it. But but here's the thing: Who's in control?
This is neither calvinistic or armenian: this is a conclusion to your topic.
If humans have control, God doesn't.
If God has control, humans don't.

God is always in control but He also created us with free will. Otherwise we would be robots programmed to do only the things we were programmed to do. We would have no feeling except those programmed in us. Can we love God if He programmed us to love Him? We cannot love without freedom. Love must be an intelligent, free choice. Love gives choice. He gave us the chance to choose who to follow, Him or Satan.
He said 'Choose ye this day who you will serve.'

 

[phipps]

I've heard these arguments before, and all of you have gone through great lengths to show your points. So, this was going to be short, but....

Salvation is controlled by God alone. If that is true, NO ONE else controls it.
If this is NOT true, you are by default saying God is not in control of something in His creation.
And if He's not control of His creation, what ELSE is He not in control of?
And if He is not in control, what is He the God of exactly? (I got some great norse, roman, and greek stories for you...)

Human free will is not absolute (show me what verses you have for that if you have them)
-- you are free to chose, but you will always chose according to your nature and limitations.
Now because of that whole business with the two naked people, a piece fruit and a sneaky serpent,
none of use have the ability to always chose good unaided.
(romans 1:18 -31 and romans 3:9-18 -- and that's EVERYONE, not just the "bad ones", or more correctly we are ALL the "bad ones")

if you have no ability to good the good of God's Salvation, God Himself must change you so that
1) you want it and 2) you "chose" it.

Complacency, lack of growth, and lack of response is the signs of an unregenerate person, PERIOD.
Christians believers grow and show definite signs of the seed planted.
Make-believers are not christians, but often have been in church long enough to play the game and sound convincing.

I also understand that we can see people that really looked "saved" and then have them turn away. The "standard" answer for that is "they were never christians in the first place because real christians don't leave." That's sounds very "convenient," but is still true. Remember that being a Christian isn't just believing truth about Jesus; it's also obeying and committing yourself to it no matter what, even and especially when you'd much rather do something different.
Satan's theology is not only better than every christian you know, remember that rascal SAW GOD in person. But like many of these "seems like a christian to me" folks, when faced with his spat with GOD, he want to BE GOD instead of bowing to the real one. So he dumped the real one for his own conceits; sound familiar?
Let me help:

I used to be a pastor, until those *(*(*!!@# people started (pick your favorite offense).
I used to believe in GOD until he let/made/didn't stop my mother/brother/?? from dying/something else awful.
I could NEVER believe in a GOD who (did something that bible clearly states He actually does).
I used to be a Christian, then I got edu-macated (and figured I knew more than all christians, the bible, and God himself), and either switched religions, or became an atheist.
I just wasn't interested anymore...(wow, got bored with an INFINITE GOD? that takes skill, or just sin...)
(Pick your favorite sin) was just to good to pass up; had to bounce.

God WAS great until He did something that someone didn't like.
Then they reverted back to their preferred ultimate deity -- the one that did what THEY wanted it to do.
But that's not something someone else (and often your own self) can usually see until after the fact.

We make a choice to come to Christ and let Him work within us. Without that choice, without cooperating with Him, He won't force Himself on us. Everyday we must choose Christ or we will be lost. We must die daily as Paul put it.

 

[phipps]

The works of God

John 6

27Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Believing in Christ means doing His will too. We don't want to just be hearers but also doers. In fact if we don't do God's will we won't be saved.

"Be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves” (James 1:22).

"Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21.

 

[floss]

You really need to pray regarding these verses... he's condemning work base salvation. These people are boasting about their "wonderful works" to save them and of course you cannot be save by your own works.

Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[phipps]

You really need to pray regarding these verses... he's condemning work base salvation. These people are boasting about their "wonderful works" to save them and of course you cannot be save by your own works.

Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

That can be one explanation for it, another could be those who thought they would always be saved and became complacent doing as they want and not God's will. Anyone who doesn't do God's will, will be told, "get away from me." This is a message in all the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

Faith in Action

Obedience pleases God (John 8:29), and since we can please God only by faith (Hebrews 11:6), it becomes gloriously obvious that obedience and faith are inseparable. Obedience is faith in action. The carnal mind cannot please God because it does not obey. If we reverse that statement we see that the spiritual mind pleases God because it obeys.

When God gives a command He desires one response: obedience from the heart—not discussion and argument and alternative suggestions. Why does God want obedience from the heart? Because the heart is where He writes His law when a person is born again (Hebrews 8:10). If God puts His law in the heart, what else would He want but obedience from the heart?

Obedience is the basis on which the redeemed will regain the right to the Tree of Life (Revelation 22:14), a right originally lost through disobedience (Genesis 3:17-24).

May God help you see that true spiritual obedience is a gift from God to those who fully surrender to Christ by choice.

 

[phipps]

Why Some are Lost

We often ask God why He will not save everyone. The Bible is clear that Jesus’ sacrifice was complete enough for all to be saved:

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life" (John 3:16).

The key is in the words “whosoever believeth in Him.” And this has always been the condition of our eternal existence with God.

When God placed the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the midst of the garden, He gave humankind one of the most important gifts of all; He gave us the power of choice. Throughout the centuries of hardship and the results of sin ravaging the planet, many have asked why a loving God would permit these things. Why did He not just prevent Satan from tempting Adam and Eve? God allowed Adam and Eve to be tested to allow them the freedom of choosing to serve God out of love and not force.

Throughout His Word, the Lord constantly entreats us to serve Him, not because we have to, but because we love Him and understand that His form of government is fair and the only way we can be truly happy. When we trust God by obeying Him, we show that we believe in Him and everything He stands for.

Why some are lost and some are saved is really very simple. We ourselves chose our destiny. In the most loving and compassionate way, God calls His children:

"I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live" (Deuteronomy 30:19).

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD" (Joshua 24:15).

So then why do some choose not to believe in Jesus? The Bible gives us the reason for this as well:

"For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices" (Proverbs 1:29-31)

It is not God who decides who will be lost and who will be saved, it is we ourselves who will choose this individually.

God has given us a fair example of what happens when we choose to rebel against His law and government. He wants everyone to be warned about the results their choices will have in this life and in the life to come.

"Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good" (Isaiah 7:15).

"But if ye will not do so, behold, ye have sinned against the LORD: and be sure your sin will find you out" (Numbers 32:23).

"If ye will fear the LORD, and serve him, and obey his voice, and not rebel against the commandment of the LORD, then shall both ye and also the king that reigneth over you continue following the LORD your God: But if ye will not obey the voice of the LORD, but rebel against the commandment of the LORD, then shall the hand of the LORD be against you, as it was against your fathers" (1 Samuel 12:14-15).

"The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you" (2 Chronicles 15:2).

God loves us too much not to respect our freedom of choice. He has done everything He can to prove His love by sending His Son to take our punishment and giving us a second chance to believe in Him so that we may be saved.

 

[floss]

That can be one explanation for it, another could be those who thought they were would always be saved and became complacent doing as they want and not God's will. Anyone who doesn't do god's will, will be told, "get away from me." This is a message in all the Bible.

what is the will of the Father?

John 6:39-40 King James Version (KJV)
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

pretty straightforward to me... HIS will is to save and resurrect those who believeth on the Son.

doing the will of God = believing on the Son.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

what is the will of the Father?

John 6:39-40 King James Version (KJV)
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

pretty straightforward to me... HIS will is to save and resurrect those who believeth on the Son.

doing the will of God = believing on the Son.

^ Agree completely

 

[phipps]

@floss, I've edited the other post and added something about faith in action. We can go around in circles here but anyone can fall as the Bible tells and warns us about. We have so many examples to show us the consequences of either obeying or disobeying Him.

Jesus saved us by grace but that does not relieve anyone from the duty of obedience to God’s law. Grace takes away the condemnation of the law, but it does not do away with the law.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law" (Romans 3:31).

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" Romans 6:14-16.

And lastly, "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous" (1 John 5:3).

I've been so painfully repetitious that I'm going to stop here.

 

[peridot]

God is always in control but He also created us with free will. Otherwise we would be robots programmed to do only the things we were programmed to do. We would have no feeling except those programmed in us. Can we love God if He programmed us to love Him? We cannot love without freedom. Love must be an intelligent, free choice. Love gives choice. He gave us the chance to choose who to follow, Him or Satan.
He said 'Choose ye this day who you will serve.'

Who says you DON'T choose; you said that, not me.
What I said is that you are limited IN your choice. The bible says you WILL NOT choose God until He transforms your mind.

The robot is a straw (tin?) man.
You made the choice to write this topic and answer my response; did you not chose this?

But that still doesn't mean God did not organized and control His universe so you would do exactly this and feel like you did all by yourself.
Has it not occurred to you that God's control does not mean "robots" the way humans make them?
This entity created physics AND Love; is there some reason you believe He CANNOT control all and allow for rational love and relationship?

For humans, allowing for programming bugs, this "may" be problematic, maybe.
That's more of a sound byte than a proven fact.
Infinite all knowing all powerful being can do whatever in heaven, earth, and whatever else created or not He wants.
And, no, that doesn't mean we have to understand it fully for it to be true.

 

[peridot]

We make a choice to come to Christ and let Him work within us. Without that choice, without cooperating with Him, He won't force Himself on us. Everyday we must choose Christ or we will be lost. We must die daily as Paul put it.

Says who? Not Him.

Isaiah 45:

5 I am the Lord, and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God.
I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,
6 so that from the rising of the sun
to the place of its setting
people may know there is none besides me.
I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.

"not acknowledged" means someone didn't do the choosing -- didn't even think about choosing.

11 “This is what the Lord says—
the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker:
Concerning things to come,
do you question me about my children,
or give me orders about the work of my hands?
12 It is I who made the earth
and created mankind on it.
My own hands stretched out the heavens;
I marshaled their starry hosts.
13 I will raise up Cyrus[b] in my righteousness:
I will make all his ways straight.
He will rebuild my city
and set my exiles free,
but not for a price or reward,
says the Lord Almighty.”

Did He ask Cyrus what his plans were so they could cooperate?

Isaiah 46:
8 Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors.

9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Well, sounds like He's not one to ask permission, or wait around until we come around.
And why should He? It's ALL His stuff -- we are the ones that have to ask.

FYI: One of the reasons I specifically remember these verses is because that MC Hammer rap: My name is Hammer, there is none OTHER!
Turns out Hammer was a plagiarist.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I've been so painfully repetitious that I'm going to stop here.

And yet, Still wrong. We are under the New Covenant of Grace. (The Epistle to the Hebrews)(Heb. 6:8-13). So we are no longer under (The penalty of the Law). So, if we are no longer under the penalty of the Law, How do we establish the Law? (Rom. 3:31) We let the law do what it was intended to do, and that was to send us to Christ by His Grace. What you are teaching is the same thing that the Religious leaders of Israel taught (Rom. 10: 1-13) They tried to establish a righteousness of their own through the law of commandments. Once Paul was saved, He finally realized that the commandments of the Law that he thought he was righteous by, condemned Him after he was saved (Rom. 7:7-25). But he also found that (now that he was saved) there was now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus by the Spirit of grace) (Rom. 8:1-39). Christ never did away with the Law, It still stands, but we are not under it's penalty, and the commandments we are to obey is the commandment of Godly love to God and man kind. We are no longer under law, but under grace….that is why we rejoice.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

1 Corinthians 3

10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

My questions:

1: What kind of "works" are gold, silver, precious stones

2: What kind of works are wood, hay, stubble

3: What happens to the works in #2?

4: What happens to the believer with "type 2" works?

5: What happens to the believer with "type 1" works?

 

[Daciple]

Backsliding means someone stopped believing either partially or completely. Either way they have to come back to Christ.

I noticed you basically ignore my response that specifically states this is an impossibility. Why do you continue to state that people can lose Salvation aka belief in God and Christ and come back?

If THAT isnt losing their Salvation then what do you think it means to actually lose it?

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

There is no wishy washy around it, you either Preach that people can NOT lose their Salvation or that when they do (which I have yet to see anyone show me Scripturally or tell me opinion wise what constitutes WHEN someone has or will lose it) it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to gain it back.

Which one is it? Stop lying and telling people they can lose their Salvation and then Repent and get it back, it CAN NOT be done...

 

[Todd]

what is the will of the Father?

John 6:39-40 King James Version (KJV)
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

pretty straightforward to me... HIS will is to save and resurrect those who believeth on the Son.

doing the will of God = believing on the Son.

And what does believing entail? A simple mental ascent to a concept or dogma?

The word that is translated as "believeth"...

πιστεύω pisteúō, pist-yoo'-o; from G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):—believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

If you truly entrust your well being to Christ and have faith, you will act with obedience.

Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. How is it that we know that Abraham believed? He was obedient to the point of trusting in God and acting, even when his own mind couldn't comprehend or understand.

 

[phipps]

Who says you DON'T choose; you said that, not me.
What I said is that you are limited IN your choice. The bible says you WILL NOT choose God until He transforms your mind.

The robot is a straw (tin?) man.
You made the choice to write this topic and answer my response; did you not chose this?

But that still doesn't mean God did not organized and control His universe so you would do exactly this and feel like you did all by yourself.
Has it not occurred to you that God's control does not mean "robots" the way humans make them?
This entity created physics AND Love; is there some reason you believe He CANNOT control all and allow for rational love and relationship?

For humans, allowing for programming bugs, this "may" be problematic, maybe.
That's more of a sound byte than a proven fact.
Infinite all knowing all powerful being can do whatever in heaven, earth, and whatever else created or not He wants.
And, no, that doesn't mean we have to understand it fully for it to be true.

We are not limited in choice. We have full freedom of choice in what we choose for our lives. Otherwise that wouldn't be complete love would it? It means we are partial robots then and that doesn't fit in with God's character of the Bible.

 

[phipps]

Says who? Not Him.

Isaiah 45:

5 I am the Lord, and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God.
I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,
6 so that from the rising of the sun
to the place of its setting
people may know there is none besides me.
I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.

"not acknowledged" means someone didn't do the choosing -- didn't even think about choosing.

11 “This is what the Lord says—
the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker:
Concerning things to come,
do you question me about my children,
or give me orders about the work of my hands?
12 It is I who made the earth
and created mankind on it.
My own hands stretched out the heavens;
I marshaled their starry hosts.
13 I will raise up Cyrus[b] in my righteousness:
I will make all his ways straight.
He will rebuild my city
and set my exiles free,
but not for a price or reward,
says the Lord Almighty.”

Did He ask Cyrus what his plans were so they could cooperate?

Isaiah 46:
8 Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors.

9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Well, sounds like He's not one to ask permission, or wait around until we come around.
And why should He? It's ALL His stuff -- we are the ones that have to ask.

FYI: One of the reasons I specifically remember these verses is because that MC Hammer rap: My name is Hammer, there is none OTHER!
Turns out Hammer was a plagiarist.

This reminds me of Job. When he questioned God about why he suffered so much and why God let it happen, God responded…but, in His response, God did not answer Job’s question. Instead, God asked Job a series of questions. Essentially, God’s response was, “Who are you to question me?”. The idea is that we know very little about how God operates, and why He does what He does. There are 77 questions God asked Job and I can't post most of them. I'll post just a few from Job 38.

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?

Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the day spring to know his place;

Could Job answer any of those questions? No. God wanted to show Job that He is the creator of this world. God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient. Everything belongs to Him. God is so great that but like Job we lose sight of that sometimes and forget.

However God created us with a great gift, it’s called a free will. He does not force. He appeals to us, and the devil pulls us one way and God pulls us the other, and we get to vote and that’s a lot of love to give us that kind of freedom. He could force us fully or partially but that would not be voluntary service prompted by genuine love. He knows that obedience motivated by anything else, such as fear, is ineffective and will eventually lead to sin.

God is all knowing. He knew what Lucifer would do, but He still created him. He did the same for Adam and Eve and for all of us! God knew before we were born how we would live, but even so, He permitted us to live so we can choose Him or the devil. God is willing to be misunderstood and falsely accused while taking time to allow every person to freely choose whom he or she will follow.

The sin problem will soon end. In the beginning, everything was “very good” (Genesis 1:31). Now “the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one” (1 John 5:19). People everywhere are choosing to either serve God or Satan. I pray that we will use our God-given freedom to choose to serve the Lord!

 

[phipps]

1 Corinthians 3

10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

My questions:

1: What kind of "works" are gold, silver, precious stones

2: What kind of works are wood, hay, stubble

3: What happens to the works in #2?

4: What happens to the believer with "type 2" works?

5: What happens to the believer with "type 1" works?

"If the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do?" (Psalm 11:3).

Depending on what we use to build our foundations and what we build on them, the fire (fire in Bible symbology means Holy Spirit, Luke 3:16) will test if we have the right foundations and buildings. Sometimes we have the right foundations but we didn't build on them. If we have the wrong foundations, anything we build on them will collapse. Do you remember the parable in Matthew 7:24-27 of the men who built their houses on rock and sand and when the rain fell only one house was left standing? The house built on rock was left standing. The rock is Jesus according to the Bible. Jesus is the only foundation on which we can be saved.