Thunderian
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- Mar 13, 2017
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You continue to dodge the question I keep asking.Here are responses to your questions from informed sources since I am not a bible scholar.
"We do not need to try hard to prove that the Gospels and all the books of the Christians did not come from God or from the Messiah (peace be upon him), as we needed to do with regard to the Torah and the books attributed to the Prophets that the Jews have, because the Jews claim that the Torah that they have was revealed from God to Moosa, so we needed to establish proof that this claim of theirs is false. With regard to the Christians, they have taken care of the issue themselves, because they do not believe that the Gospels were revealed from God to the Messiah, or that the Messiah brought them, rather all of them from first to last, peasants and kings, Nestorians, Jacobites, Maronites and Orthodox are all agreed that there are four historical accounts written by four known men at different times. The first of them is the account written by Matthew the Levite who was a disciple of the Messiah, nine years after the Messiah was taken up into heaven. He wrote it in Hebrew in Judaea in Palestine, and it filled approximately twenty-eight pages in a medium-sized script. The next account was written by Mark, a disciple of Simon ben Yuna, who was called Peter, twenty-two years after the Messiah was taken up into heaven. He wrote it in Greek in Antioch in the land of the Byzantines. They say that the Simon mentioned is the one who wrote it, then he erased his name from the beginning of it and attributed it to his disciple Mark. It filled twenty-four pages written in a medium-sized script. This Simon was a disciple of the Messiah. The third account written was that of Luke, a physician of Antioch who was also a disciple of Simon Peter. He wrote it in Greek after Mark had written his account, and is similar in length to the Gospel of Matthew. The fourth account was written by John the son of Zebedee, another disciple of the Messiah, sixty-odd years after the Messiah has been taken up into heaven. He wrote it in Greek, and it filled twenty-four pages in a medium-sized script. End quote.
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said in al-Jawaab al-Saheeh (3:21):
With regard to the Gospels that the Christians have, there are four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. They are agreed that Luke and Mark did not see the Messiah, rather he was seen by Matthew and John. These four accounts which they call the Gospel, and they call each one of them a Gospel, were written by these men after the Messiah had been taken up into heaven. They did not say that they are the word of God or that the Messiah conveyed them from God, rather they narrated some of the words of the Messiah and some of his deeds and miracles. End quote.
Moreover, these books which were written after the time of the Messiah did not remain in their original form. The original versions were lost long ago. Ibn Hazm said:
With regard to the Christians, there is no dispute among them or anyone else that only one hundred and twenty men believed in the Messiah during his lifetime… and all of those who believed in him concealed themselves and were afraid during his lifetime and afterwards; they called people to his religion in secret and none of them disclosed himself or practised his religion openly, because any of them who was caught was executed.
They continued in this manner, not showing themselves at all, and they had no place where they were safe for three hundred years after the Messiah was taken up into heaven.
During this time, the Gospel that had been revealed from Allaah disappeared, apart from a few verses which Allaah preserved as proof against them and as a rebuke to them, as we have mentioned. Then when the Emperor Constantine became a Christian, then the Christians prevailed and started to practise their religion openly and assemble in safety.
If a religion is like this, with its followers practicing it in secret and living in constant fear of the sword, it is impossible for things to be transmitted soundly via a continuous chain of narrators and its followers cannot protect it or prevent it from being distorted.
End quote. Al-Fasl, 2/4-5.
In addition to this huge disruption in the chain of transmission of their books, which lasted for two centuries, these books did not remain in the languages in which they were originally written, rather they were translated, more than once, by people whose level of knowledge and honesty is unknown. The contradictions in these books and their shortcomings are among the strongest evidence that they have been distorted and that they are not the Gospel (Injeel) that Allaah revealed to His slave and Messenger ‘Eesa (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Allaah indeed spoke the truth when He said (interpretation of the meaning):
“Had it been from other than Allaah, they would surely, have found therein many a contradiction”
[al-Nisa’ 4:82]."
What Do Muslims Think about the Gospels? - Islam Question & Answer
1. Muslims believe that Allah revealed the Gospel (Injil) to His Prophet `Isa (Jesus). Muslims also believe that, apart from the Quran, no book remained as it was revealed by Allah, neither the Gospel nor anything else.2. There are four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Christians agreed...islamqa.info
I thought that you could see from point 11 that we believe the Torah is distorted.
“Do you (faithful believers) covet that they will believe in your religion in spite of the fact that a party of them (Jewish rabbis) used to hear the Word of Allaah (the Tawraat), then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it?” [al-Baqarah 2:75]
“Among those who are Jews, there are some who displace words from (their) right places and say: ‘We hear your word (O Muhammad) and disobey,’ and ‘Hear and let you (Muhammad) hear nothing.’ And Raa’ina [in Arabic this means, ‘Be careful, listen to us and we listen to you,’ whereas in Hebrew it means ‘an insult.’] with a twist of their tongues and as a mockery of the religion (Islam). And if only they had said, ‘We hear and obey,’ and ‘Do make us understand,’ it would have been better for them, and more proper, but Allaah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not except for a few.” [al-Nisaa’ 4:46]
“So because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard. They change the words from their (right) places and have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them. And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds). Verily, Allaah loves al-Muhsineen (good-doers).” [al-Maa’idah 5:13]
The phrase “because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them” refers to the fact that they broke the Covenant which had been made with them, so Allaah cursed them, i.e., He kept them away from following the True Guidance. “[We] made their hearts grow hard” means that they will not benefit from any preaching because their hearts are so hard. “They change the words from their (right) places” means that they play havoc with the words of Allaah and misinterpret His Book, taking it to mean things that were never meant and attributing to Allaah things that He never said; may Allaah protect us from that.
“[They] have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them” means that they stopped following its teachings because they did not want to follow them. Al-Hasan said: “They did not adhere to their religion or keep their duties towards Allaah, without which no deeds are acceptable to Him; their fitrah (innate nature) was not sound and their deeds were not righteous.” [Tafseer Ibn Katheer]
So it becomes quite clear that the ways in which the Children of Israel tampered with the Tawraat and Injeel include the following:
When Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was sent, the original Tawraat and Injeel had already been altered and distorted. Allaah revealed the Qur’aan to His Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and guaranteed that He Himself would preserve it, as He says (interpretation of the meaning): “Verily We: it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e., the Qur’aan) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).” [al-Hijr 15:9]
- Changing
- Omitting
- Adding things and attributing to Allaah words that He did not say
- Misinterpreting the words of Allaah.
for more:
Q&A: How Could God's Words Be Changed? | Dr. Shabir Ally
The Quran does not speak about killing Jews.
Seems that you are not aware of how Muslims view Jews as the people of the book and how they were sheltered on Muslim lands when they were being persecuted in Europe.
All people whether Muslim, Jewish or Christian or other who know the truth and reject the message of God will be accountable for their disbelief and rejection.
Muslims take issue with anyone who oppresses them, however if they do not oppress we are to live well with others.
Find out how Jews were treated in Christianity versus Islam from Rabbi Tovia:
Muslim Caller! How is Christian and Muslim Jew-hatred Different? Rabbi Tovia Singer Responds
Strange a human sacrifice is very abhorrent and unnecessary since we believe that Prophet Adam repented for his sin thus setting the example for his progeny unlike the shaitan who was too full of pride to do so.
I got your answer for your blood atonement issues as well from a jewish website and it seems that they also believe that the Creator accepts sincere repentance.
Excerpt below:
"The Church appeals to this verse to prove that the blood of the cross is man’s only hope for salvation and the assurance that God will forgive his sins.
In response to this argument, I have explained that contrary to the missionary claim that blood sacrifice is the only method of atonement, the Bible clearly prescribes three methods of atonement: the sin sacrifice, repentance, and charity. Moreover, the sin sacrifice (called in the Jewish Scriptures as korban chatat) did not atone for all types of sin, but rather, only for man’s most insignificant iniquity: unintentional sins. The sin sacrifice was inadequate to atone for a transgression committed intentionally. The brazen sinner was barred from the sanctuary, and had to bear his own iniquity because of his rebellion against God.
The answer to your question is simple. Jesus could not die for anyone’s sins, whether they were committed intentionally or accidentally. To begin with, the Jewish people were strictly prohibited from offering human sacrifices under any circumstances. There is not one place throughout the entire corpus of the Jewish Scriptures where human sacrifices are condoned. In fact, over and over again, the Bible warns the Jewish people that it is a grave sin to bring a human being as a sacrifice. In the Book of Leviticus, only distinct species of animals are permitted for use in blood sacrifices.
The ancient pagan religions promoted the same idea about atonement as Christendom continues to preach today (e.g. Molech). They would joyfully offer a child into the fires of their sacrificial offering in order to expiate their sins and appease the gods. Why would a child sacrifice be used in this pagan ritual rather than an adult? The reason is that a child is a moving portrait of one who is innocent of sin. A child, they reasoned, could not have committed iniquity and thus mirrored the animal sacrifice which also had to be unblemished. The Torah therefore condemned human sacrifices, and forewarned Jewish people of terrible consequences if this commandment were violated."
for more: https://outreachjudaism.org/jesus-death-atone-for-sin/
"Salvation in Islam:
As mentioned earlier, Islam rejects the idea that a human being is born sinner due to the original sin of Adam. On the contrary, Islam teaches us that a human being is born sinless and inclined to worship Allah. This fact is proven true by a study conducted by Oxford University over three years. To keep the state of sinlessness, a human being must only follow the commandments of Allah and strive to live a righteous life. In case a person indulges into sins, he/she distant themselves from the mercy of Allah, however, sincere repentance brings a person back to Allah.
Allah says in the Qur’an:
And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another… (Fatir 35:18)
This leads us to the fundamental question, what is the mechanism of being sinless in Islam? What could a human being do in case of committing a sin?
It is a part of the human nature that a human being is prone to error and mistake whether deliberately or just a bad intention. Islam teaches us that Allah is the Most forgiving, Most Gracious, and the Most Merciful. Therefore, as human beings, we are constantly in need of forgiveness. Throughout the Qur’an Allah continually asks us to turn to Him in repentance and ask for His forgiveness. This is the road to salvation. This is our rescue from destruction. Muslims believe that this concept of repentance is shared by all the Prophets including Moses and Jesus not something newly brought by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). It is narrated that the Prophet Muhammad said: “The one who repents from sin is like one who did not sin.” (Ibn Majah)"
Salvation in Islam
Salvation in Islam: What do you know about the story of Adam and Eve in the Qur'an? What is meant by salvation in Islam?www.islamforchristians.com
We know that the Bible we have today is the exact same one that was available at the time of Muhammad. There is no question that he agreed it was the word of God then, but now Muslims say it's been corrupted. How do you explain this?