Zionism: Is it Biblical?

Thunderian

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Here are responses to your questions from informed sources since I am not a bible scholar.

"We do not need to try hard to prove that the Gospels and all the books of the Christians did not come from God or from the Messiah (peace be upon him), as we needed to do with regard to the Torah and the books attributed to the Prophets that the Jews have, because the Jews claim that the Torah that they have was revealed from God to Moosa, so we needed to establish proof that this claim of theirs is false. With regard to the Christians, they have taken care of the issue themselves, because they do not believe that the Gospels were revealed from God to the Messiah, or that the Messiah brought them, rather all of them from first to last, peasants and kings, Nestorians, Jacobites, Maronites and Orthodox are all agreed that there are four historical accounts written by four known men at different times. The first of them is the account written by Matthew the Levite who was a disciple of the Messiah, nine years after the Messiah was taken up into heaven. He wrote it in Hebrew in Judaea in Palestine, and it filled approximately twenty-eight pages in a medium-sized script. The next account was written by Mark, a disciple of Simon ben Yuna, who was called Peter, twenty-two years after the Messiah was taken up into heaven. He wrote it in Greek in Antioch in the land of the Byzantines. They say that the Simon mentioned is the one who wrote it, then he erased his name from the beginning of it and attributed it to his disciple Mark. It filled twenty-four pages written in a medium-sized script. This Simon was a disciple of the Messiah. The third account written was that of Luke, a physician of Antioch who was also a disciple of Simon Peter. He wrote it in Greek after Mark had written his account, and is similar in length to the Gospel of Matthew. The fourth account was written by John the son of Zebedee, another disciple of the Messiah, sixty-odd years after the Messiah has been taken up into heaven. He wrote it in Greek, and it filled twenty-four pages in a medium-sized script. End quote.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said in al-Jawaab al-Saheeh (3:21):

With regard to the Gospels that the Christians have, there are four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. They are agreed that Luke and Mark did not see the Messiah, rather he was seen by Matthew and John. These four accounts which they call the Gospel, and they call each one of them a Gospel, were written by these men after the Messiah had been taken up into heaven. They did not say that they are the word of God or that the Messiah conveyed them from God, rather they narrated some of the words of the Messiah and some of his deeds and miracles. End quote.

Moreover, these books which were written after the time of the Messiah did not remain in their original form. The original versions were lost long ago. Ibn Hazm said:

With regard to the Christians, there is no dispute among them or anyone else that only one hundred and twenty men believed in the Messiah during his lifetime… and all of those who believed in him concealed themselves and were afraid during his lifetime and afterwards; they called people to his religion in secret and none of them disclosed himself or practised his religion openly, because any of them who was caught was executed.

They continued in this manner, not showing themselves at all, and they had no place where they were safe for three hundred years after the Messiah was taken up into heaven.

During this time, the Gospel that had been revealed from Allaah disappeared, apart from a few verses which Allaah preserved as proof against them and as a rebuke to them, as we have mentioned. Then when the Emperor Constantine became a Christian, then the Christians prevailed and started to practise their religion openly and assemble in safety.

If a religion is like this, with its followers practicing it in secret and living in constant fear of the sword, it is impossible for things to be transmitted soundly via a continuous chain of narrators and its followers cannot protect it or prevent it from being distorted.

End quote. Al-Fasl, 2/4-5.

In addition to this huge disruption in the chain of transmission of their books, which lasted for two centuries, these books did not remain in the languages in which they were originally written, rather they were translated, more than once, by people whose level of knowledge and honesty is unknown. The contradictions in these books and their shortcomings are among the strongest evidence that they have been distorted and that they are not the Gospel (Injeel) that Allaah revealed to His slave and Messenger ‘Eesa (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Allaah indeed spoke the truth when He said (interpretation of the meaning):

“Had it been from other than Allaah, they would surely, have found therein many a contradiction”

[al-Nisa’ 4:82]."



I thought that you could see from point 11 that we believe the Torah is distorted.

“Do you (faithful believers) covet that they will believe in your religion in spite of the fact that a party of them (Jewish rabbis) used to hear the Word of Allaah (the Tawraat), then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it?” [al-Baqarah 2:75]

“Among those who are Jews, there are some who displace words from (their) right places and say: ‘We hear your word (O Muhammad) and disobey,’ and ‘Hear and let you (Muhammad) hear nothing.’ And Raa’ina [in Arabic this means, ‘Be careful, listen to us and we listen to you,’ whereas in Hebrew it means ‘an insult.’] with a twist of their tongues and as a mockery of the religion (Islam). And if only they had said, ‘We hear and obey,’ and ‘Do make us understand,’ it would have been better for them, and more proper, but Allaah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not except for a few.” [al-Nisaa’ 4:46]

“So because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard. They change the words from their (right) places and have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them. And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds). Verily, Allaah loves al-Muhsineen (good-doers).” [al-Maa’idah 5:13]

The phrase “because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them” refers to the fact that they broke the Covenant which had been made with them, so Allaah cursed them, i.e., He kept them away from following the True Guidance. “[We] made their hearts grow hard” means that they will not benefit from any preaching because their hearts are so hard. “They change the words from their (right) places” means that they play havoc with the words of Allaah and misinterpret His Book, taking it to mean things that were never meant and attributing to Allaah things that He never said; may Allaah protect us from that.

“[They] have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them” means that they stopped following its teachings because they did not want to follow them. Al-Hasan said: “They did not adhere to their religion or keep their duties towards Allaah, without which no deeds are acceptable to Him; their fitrah (innate nature) was not sound and their deeds were not righteous.” [Tafseer Ibn Katheer]

So it becomes quite clear that the ways in which the Children of Israel tampered with the Tawraat and Injeel include the following:
  1. Changing
  2. Omitting
  3. Adding things and attributing to Allaah words that He did not say
  4. Misinterpreting the words of Allaah.
When Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was sent, the original Tawraat and Injeel had already been altered and distorted. Allaah revealed the Qur’aan to His Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and guaranteed that He Himself would preserve it, as He says (interpretation of the meaning): “Verily We: it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e., the Qur’aan) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).” [al-Hijr 15:9]

for more:
Q&A: How Could God's Words Be Changed? | Dr. Shabir Ally




The Quran does not speak about killing Jews.
Seems that you are not aware of how Muslims view Jews as the people of the book and how they were sheltered on Muslim lands when they were being persecuted in Europe.
All people whether Muslim, Jewish or Christian or other who know the truth and reject the message of God will be accountable for their disbelief and rejection.
Muslims take issue with anyone who oppresses them, however if they do not oppress we are to live well with others.
Find out how Jews were treated in Christianity versus Islam from Rabbi Tovia:
Muslim Caller! How is Christian and Muslim Jew-hatred Different? Rabbi Tovia Singer Responds




Strange a human sacrifice is very abhorrent and unnecessary since we believe that Prophet Adam repented for his sin thus setting the example for his progeny unlike the shaitan who was too full of pride to do so.
I got your answer for your blood atonement issues as well from a jewish website and it seems that they also believe that the Creator accepts sincere repentance.

Excerpt below:

"The Church appeals to this verse to prove that the blood of the cross is man’s only hope for salvation and the assurance that God will forgive his sins.

In response to this argument, I have explained that contrary to the missionary claim that blood sacrifice is the only method of atonement, the Bible clearly prescribes three methods of atonement: the sin sacrifice, repentance, and charity. Moreover, the sin sacrifice (called in the Jewish Scriptures as korban chatat) did not atone for all types of sin, but rather, only for man’s most insignificant iniquity: unintentional sins. The sin sacrifice was inadequate to atone for a transgression committed intentionally. The brazen sinner was barred from the sanctuary, and had to bear his own iniquity because of his rebellion against God.
The answer to your question is simple. Jesus could not die for anyone’s sins, whether they were committed intentionally or accidentally. To begin with, the Jewish people were strictly prohibited from offering human sacrifices under any circumstances. There is not one place throughout the entire corpus of the Jewish Scriptures where human sacrifices are condoned. In fact, over and over again, the Bible warns the Jewish people that it is a grave sin to bring a human being as a sacrifice. In the Book of Leviticus, only distinct species of animals are permitted for use in blood sacrifices.

The ancient pagan religions promoted the same idea about atonement as Christendom continues to preach today (e.g. Molech). They would joyfully offer a child into the fires of their sacrificial offering in order to expiate their sins and appease the gods. Why would a child sacrifice be used in this pagan ritual rather than an adult? The reason is that a child is a moving portrait of one who is innocent of sin. A child, they reasoned, could not have committed iniquity and thus mirrored the animal sacrifice which also had to be unblemished. The Torah therefore condemned human sacrifices, and forewarned Jewish people of terrible consequences if this commandment were violated."

for more: https://outreachjudaism.org/jesus-death-atone-for-sin/

"Salvation in Islam:
As mentioned earlier, Islam rejects the idea that a human being is born sinner due to the original sin of Adam. On the contrary, Islam teaches us that a human being is born sinless and inclined to worship Allah. This fact is proven true by a study conducted by Oxford University over three years. To keep the state of sinlessness, a human being must only follow the commandments of Allah and strive to live a righteous life. In case a person indulges into sins, he/she distant themselves from the mercy of Allah, however, sincere repentance brings a person back to Allah.


Allah says in the Qur’an:


And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another… (Fatir 35:18)


This leads us to the fundamental question, what is the mechanism of being sinless in Islam? What could a human being do in case of committing a sin?


It is a part of the human nature that a human being is prone to error and mistake whether deliberately or just a bad intention. Islam teaches us that Allah is the Most forgiving, Most Gracious, and the Most Merciful. Therefore, as human beings, we are constantly in need of forgiveness. Throughout the Qur’an Allah continually asks us to turn to Him in repentance and ask for His forgiveness. This is the road to salvation. This is our rescue from destruction. Muslims believe that this concept of repentance is shared by all the Prophets including Moses and Jesus not something newly brought by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). It is narrated that the Prophet Muhammad said: “The one who repents from sin is like one who did not sin.” (Ibn Majah)"
You continue to dodge the question I keep asking.

We know that the Bible we have today is the exact same one that was available at the time of Muhammad. There is no question that he agreed it was the word of God then, but now Muslims say it's been corrupted. How do you explain this?
 

Thunderian

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@DesertRose your answer to a legitimate question about Islam is to laugh at it? I'm just glad I have answers to the hard questions about my faith. Faith isn't faith if it's afraid of being questioned, but that's not something I see Muslims do very often, and I can only think that it's because they're afraid of the answers.
 

DesertRose

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You continue to dodge the question I keep asking.

We know that the Bible we have today is the exact same one that was available at the time of Muhammad. There is no question that he agreed it was the word of God then, but now Muslims say it's been corrupted. How do you explain this?
I answered your question Thunderian and any fair minded person can see that!
I am laughing in disbelief at that comment!

The new testament is not the injeel (gospel)that was sent to Prophet Jesus.
There are remnants of that true passages from the Creator but that is all that is left remnants.
The Quran states that the gospel/injeel is what was revealed upon Jesus Christ.
The Quran does not refer to the what you have today the new testament which are the writings of others including Paul (Saul or Sol)
 
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DesertRose

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Thunderian Iet us stop derailing this thread further.
I invite you and all to the straight path of Islam. Always!
May the Creator guide you to his path. Ameen!
.

Say, "O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah." But if they turn away, then say, "Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him]."
3:64
A top Jewish Scholar confirms that Islam is the oldest Path of GOD that was preached by all Prophets

 
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Thunderian

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I answered your question Thunderian and any fair minded person can see that!
I am laughing in disbelief at that comment!

The new testament is not the injeel (gospel)that was sent to Prophet Jesus.
There are remnants of that true passages from the Creator but that is all that is left remnants.
The Quran states that the gospel (the actual text that was revealed upon Jesus Christ) and not the new testament.
The Quran does not refer to the what you have today which are the writings of others including Paul (Saul or Sol)
There is no Gospel of Jesus. Not a shred of evidence has been found for it, even though Islam admits that the New Testament was written within the lifetimes of people who would have known Jesus. Are you saying the injeel existed at the time of Muhammad? That makes it almost impossible that no trace of it would remain. Do you actually believe that if Jesus had written a gospel that none of his followers would have made sure it was kept safe? That no partial manuscript or contemporary reference to it would have survived? You are blind.

I also posted a lengthy piece that shows that the New Testament doctrines you say are at odds with Islam are in full agreement with the Old Testament. If the Old Testament is corrupt, was it corrupt at the time of Muhammad? He says it wasn't. The Old Testament we have today is the same book that was translated into Greek 800 years before Muhammad. It didn't change between the third century BC and the transmission of the Quran, and it hasn't changed from the transmission of the Quran until now. The Islamic contention that the Bible is corrupt is not based on any evidence, and in fact goes against proven historical record. So why do you continue to lie about this?
 

DesertRose

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There is no Gospel of Jesus. Not a shred of evidence has been found for it, even though Islam admits that the New Testament was written with the lifetimes of people who would have known Jesus. Are you saying it existed at the time of Muhammad?
Are you saying that Jesus peace be upon him did not receive revelation from God? That is untrue.
 

Thunderian

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Thunderian Iet us stop derailing this thread further.
Excuse me? You are the one who lied about the Bible in your first post on this thread. You are the one who quoted the Quran in your second post. Just like your accusation that I've moved the goalposts, this is false. If you don't want to answer questions about Islam and the Quran, don't bring it up.
 

Thunderian

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Are you saying that Jesus peace be upon him did not receive revelation from God? That is untrue.
I am saying there is no lost Gospel of Jesus. The gospel of Jesus Christ is the message of salvation we find in the New Testament, faithfully recorded by men who knew him, and in full agreement with the Old Testament.
 

DesertRose

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I am saying there is no lost Gospel of Jesus. The gospel of Jesus Christ is the message of salvation we find in the New Testament, faithfully recorded by men who knew him, and in full agreement with the Old Testament.
The Creator has stated in His final revelation that the message that came to prophet Jesus was predominantly lost (although there are remnants left)
I put forth this website for those who have questions.
You can ask questions and get immediate answers with their chat mechanism.
Can Biblical Manuscripts Stand Historical Methodologies for Text-Criticism?


Dr Jerald Dirks - Jesus To Muhammad (sallallahu alayhima wa sallam) A History Of Early Christianity


For those who want talk to or write to those who explain the differences this group has members who are available:
Check their website and fb pages and here are a series of their videos

We invite to his straight path. God is sufficient for forgiveness he does not need the help of a 'son' for this for forgiving his servants.


Once again:
Say, "O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah." But if they turn away, then say, "Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him]."
3:64
 
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Thunderian

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@DesertRose what do you think of the argument for Zionism this Muslim makes?

The Quranic argument for Jewish sovereignty in the land of Israel
by
Sheikh Abdul Hadi Palazzi​
Over the past 15 years, the political conflict between Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs has been reframed as a religious war in which leaders from Yasser Arafat to Hassan Nasrallah to Osama bin Laden have appealed to the authority of the Quran to support their goal of eliminating the State of Israel. The authority of the Quran has also been cited in support of a revisionist history that seeks to deny the historical connection of the Jewish people to the city of Jerusalem and to its holiest sites, including the Temple Mount. Ignorant of what the Quran actually says about Jerusalem, Western reporters have recently tended to ignore archeological and historical evidence and give equal weight to the supposedly competing religious narratives of Jews and Muslims: Jews are said to believe that there was a Jewish temple in Jerusalem, while the Quran states that the historical and religious claims of the Jews are false.
The transformation of a political conflict over land into a religious war is one of the most dangerous and frightening goals of radical Islamist politicians—but it has nothing to do with the Quran.
Here the Italian Muslim communal leader and Quranic scholar Sheik Abdul Hadi Palazzi examines what the Quran says about the connection of the Jewish people to the land of Israel. Far from negating the historical claims of a Jewish presence on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, the Quran actually confirms Jewish accounts of the building of Solomon’s Temple in Jerusalem and supports the Biblical claim that the land of Israel was given to the Jews by God.
1. Jewish sovereignty in Jerusalem
In August 2002, the Yasser Arafat-appointed “mufti of Jerusalem and the Holy Land,” Ikrima Sabri, told the Western media that “there is not even the smallest indication of the existence of a Jewish temple in Jerusalem in the past. In the whole city, there is not even a single stone indicating Jewish history.” By saying this, he confirmed what Arafat had already said to the London-based Arabic paper al-Hayat and reportedly repeated to Bill Clinton and Ehud Barak at Camp David: “Archaeologists have not found a single stone proving that the Temple of Solomon was there because historically the Temple was not in Palestine.”​
In making such statements, Sabri and Arafat not only blatantly denied history, archeology, and the teachings of the Bible, but they also denied the words of the Quran. From the time of the Revelation of the Noble Quran until recently, all Muslims unanimously accepted that the Haram as-Sharif, or Holy Esplanade, on which the Dome of the Rock today stands is the same place where Solomon’s and Zorobabel’s Temples once stood. As a matter of fact, Haram as-Sharif, the Sacred Area of Temple Mount, includes a place called Solomon’s Standpoint, or Maqam Sulayman—according to the Muslim tradition, Solomon used to sit there and supplicate while Hiram’s masons were engaged in building the Temple. From that same place the Muslim tradition says that Solomon prayed to dedicate the House once it was completed and to intercede for those who will approach it for worshipping.​
Accepting that Solomon’s Temple was in Jerusalem is compulsory for every Muslim believer, because that is what the Quran and the Islamic oral tradition, called the Sunnah, teach.​
In the Quran, Surah Bani Isra’il (the Chapter of the Children of Israel), verses 1-7, we find a description of Solomon’s Temple and of how it was destroyed twice by the enemies of the Jewish people:​
Glory to Him Who caused His servant [Muhammad] to travel by night from Masjid al-Haram [in Mecca] to Masjid al-Aqsa [in Jerusalem] whose precincts We did bless, in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth everything. We gave Moses the Book [Torah], and made it a Guide to the Children of Israel, commanding: ‘Take not other than Me as Disposer of your affairs.’ O ye that are the offspring of those whom We carried [in the Ark] with Noah, verily he was a devotee most grateful. And We warned the Children of Israel in the Book, that twice would they do mischief on the earth and twice be elated with mighty arrogance. When the first of the warnings came to pass, We sent against you Our creatures [Babylonians], given to terrible warfare: they entered the very inmost parts of your homes, and thus the first warning was fulfilled. Then We did grant you the return as against them; We gave you increase in resources and sons and made you abundant in human power. If ye did well, ye did well for yourselves; if ye did evil, [ye did it] against yourselves. So when the second of the warnings came to pass, [We permitted your enemies] to disfigure your faces, and to enter your Temple as they entered it once before, and to bring to destruction all that fell into their power.​
Imam Abu Abdullah al-Qurtubi, who lived from 1214 to 1273 and was one of the most authoritative medieval Quranic annotators, in his Al-Jami’ li Ahkam il-Qur’an, or Encyclopedia of Quranic Rules, explains the context (asbab) of the verses by mentioning among other sources the authentic Prophetic tradition (hadith). He wrote:​
Hudhayfah Ibn al-Yaman asked the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him:​
‘I travelled more than once to Jerusalem, but saw no Temple standing there. What is the reason?’​
6The Prophet Muhammad replied:​
‘Verily Solomon son of David raised Bayt al-Maqdis [i.e., Beth ha-Mikdash, the First Temple] with gold and silver, with rubies and emeralds, and Allah caused human beings and spirits to work under his command, until the raising of the House was completed. Afterwards a Babylonian King destroyed Bayt al-Maqdis and brought its treasures to the land of Babylonia, until a King of Persia defeated him and ransomed the Children of Israel. They rebuilt Bayt al-Maqdis for the second time [the Second Temple], until it was destroyed for the second time by an army led by a Roman Emperor.’​
One can easily verify that Jewish and Muslim traditional sources are confirming each other: The Temple was built by Solomon and destroyed by a Babylonian king. A Persian king later defeated the Babylonians and ransomed the Jews, permitting them to return to the Land of Israel. The Temple was rebuilt but afterward was destroyed by the Romans. This Temple stood in the area referred to as Beth haMikdash in Hebrew and Bayt al-Maqdis in Arabic. Those political and pseudo-religious Palestinian leaders who claim that “there was never a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem” are surely aware that, in order to support their political claims, they are compelled to lie, hide sources, and contradict the letter of the Quran and the Islamic tradition.​
An earlier Quranic exegete and jurist, Imam Muhammad ibn Jarir at-Tabari, who lived from 838 to 923, writes in his Tarikh al-Rusul wa al-Muluk, or History of Prophets and Kings, that the same sacred area was the place where Jacob had his vision of the Heavenly Ladder:​
When Jacob awoke he felt blissful from what he had seen in his trustful dream and vowed, for God’s sake that, if he returned to his family safely, he would build there a Temple for the Almighty. He also vowed to perpetual charity one tenth of his property for the sake of God. He poured oil on the Stone so as to recognize it and called the place Bayt El, which means ‘the House of God.’ It became the location of Jerusalem later.​
In Jerusalem on a huge Rock, Solomon son of David built a beautiful Temple to expand the worship of God. Today on the base of that Temple stands the Dome of the Rock.​
Historical negation of Jewish and Islamic sources concerning Jerusalem is recent and does not predate the PLO and its political propaganda. In 1932, during the British Mandate period, the Supreme Muslim Council of Jerusalem published a Brief Guide to Haram as-Sharif for Muslim pilgrims, written in English. “This site is one of the oldest in the world,” it says. “Its sanctity dates from the earliest times. Its identity with the site of Solomon’s Temple is beyond dispute. This, too, is the spot, according to universal belief, on which David built there an altar unto the Lord, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings.”​
Not only were Arafat’s minions and heirs in Jerusalem attempting to rewrite the history of Arabs and Jews in the region as told by others; they were also attempting to rewrite the history of Arabs and Jews in the region as told by Islamic Arab sources, too.​
2. Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel
The Biblical notion that God granted the land of Canaan to the Children of Israel is confirmed by the Quran. In the Surah of Jonah, verse 93, we read:​
We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling-place, and provided for them sustenance of the best.​
In Surah al-Ahraf (of the Barrier), verse 137, we read:​
We made a people considered weak inheritors of the Land in both Eastern and Western side [of the Jordan river] whereon we sent down Our blessings. The fair promise of thy Lord was fulfilled for the Children of Israel, because they had patience and constancy, and We levelled to the ground the great works and fine buildings which Pharaoh and his people erected.​
Surah al Maidah (the Table), verse 21, is the only passage in which the Holy Land is mentioned by that title (al-Ard al-Muqaddas). It refers to the words Moses spoke to the descendants of Isaac:​
Remember Moses said To his people: ‘O my People, call in remembrance the favor of God unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave You what He had not given To any other among the peoples. O my people! Enter The Holy Land which God hath written for you, and turn not back ignominiously [to this heritage of yours], for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.​
In a commentary of Imam Abu al-Qasim Mahmud al-Zamakshari, who lived from 1074 to 1144, titled al-Kashaf, or The Revealer, we read the following explanation:​
As for the borders of ‘the Holy Land,’ some scholars says its northern border is the Mount [Hermon] and its surroundings, and for others in also includes a part of the Land of Sham [the Golan]. Others say it extends from the territory of the Philistines [Gaza] until Damascus and a part of Urvum. Some say that God presented to Abraham this Land as an inheritance for his children when he went up to the mountain and said to him: ‘Look around as far as your gaze can reach. Every place reached by your eyes will be theirs.’ The Holy Temple was the dwelling place of the prophets and the residence of the believers. ‘God hath written for you’ means ‘God swore it and wrote in the Divine Tablets of Predestination: that it is yours, belongs to your people and do not turn back from it. Do not be afraid of the Philistine giants who live there.​
A similar note is also found in a commentary of Abdallah ibn ‘Umar al-Qadi al-Baidawi, who lived from 1226 to 1260, titled Asrar ut-Tanzil wa Asrar ut-Ta’wil, or The Secrets of Revelation and the Secrets of Interpretation.​
3. Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel was never abolished
Moreover, the Quran explicitly refers to the return of the Jews to the Land of Israel before the Last Judgment when it says in the Surah of the Children of Israel, verse 104:​
And thereafter We [God] said to the Children of Israel: ‘Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd.’​
Therefore, from an Islamic point of view, Israel is the legitimate owner of the land God deeded to her and whose borders were defined by Abraham in Genesis.​
All recent claims according to which the “assignment of the Land of Israel to the Jewish people was withdrawn or abrogated” are bereft of scriptural or traditional evidence. The Quran mentions the territory that God assigned to the Jewish people, but neither it nor the traditional Islamic sources mention a supposed withdrawal.​
Imam al-Qurtubi explains in al-Jami that the last promise concerning the return of the Jewish people “together in a mingled crowd” after the destruction of the Second Temple will be a sign that precedes the coming of the Messiah.​
The Quran only mentions a double period of mischief and a double punishment with exile from the Land. God says:​
We warned the Children of Israel in the Book, that TWICE would they do mischief on the earth and TWICE be elated with mighty arrogance.​
According to this Quranic proof, the contemporary Zionist rebuilding of the State of Israel—the third entry of the Jews to their divinely appointed land—is not mischief but rather a fulfillment of what Imam az-Zamakshari reminds the Jews: “God swore it and wrote in the Divine Tablets of Predestination: that it is yours, belongs to your people and do not turn back from it.”​
Sheikh Abdul Hadi Palazzi is secretary general of the Italian Muslim Assembly.
 

Thunderian

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I'd also like a critique from a Muslim on this article.
The Zionist Quran
IQ al Rassooli​
The Quran itself verifies with detailed explanation that Allah promised the land of the modern State of Israel to the Jewish People. Are​
Muslims denying the words of Allah or is the Quran a Zionist document?​
Most Muslims have absolutely no idea what Muhammad’s Quran reveals, since its contents is a jumble of disconnected, non-sequential thoughts, ideas and stories.​
The BDS (Boycott Disinvestment & Sanctions) movement against Israel was started by the Arabs and has chapters in many countries in the world, supported invariably by clueless indigenous members of these countries who claim that they are not being anti Jewish but rather, are fair minded regarding the alleged oppression of the ‘Palestinian People’ by Israelis.​
The so called “Palestinians” (who are actually Arabs and Muslims from all over the Middle East and Central Asia) claim with incredible degrees of historical and theological contortions and deception, that the Jews are occupiers of their Arab land. This, in absolute and in obvious contradiction of the Bible, not to mention Muhammad’s Quran and the historical record.​
The Arabs and their supporters never mention the following facts:​
  1. Arab imperialism conquered and subjugated the Holy Land in 635AD and remained as occupiers for 1330 years (until 1967)
  1. The Balfour Declaration addressed the territories that today make up Jordan, Israel and Palestinian Authority. The British, without the consent of the Jews or the League of Nations, unilaterally gave Jordan to the Hashemite Arabs. Thus the Jews lost almost 72% of the land promised to them at the stroke of a pen
  1. There was a “Two-States” UN resolution (181) in 1947 which was accepted by the Jews but rejected by the Arabs.
  1. In 1948 the Arabs started a war of extermination against the newly created Israel (in territories allocated to them by the UN).
  1. The war resulted in alleged 700,000 Arab refugees and a cessation of hostilities in 1949.
  1. Because of the Arab war against Israel and the Jews, there was a mass expulsion of over 950,000 Jews from the lands of their nativity by Arab and Muslim countries
  1. Had the Arabs not started the war against the Jews, there would have been no Arab or Jewish refugees
What people don’t know, including many Muslims themselves, is that the Quran is actually quite a pro-Zionist document. By which I mean that Allah, in the Quran, asserts repeatedly and unambiguously that the Promised Land belongs only to the descendants of Abraham, through the bloodlines of Jacob-Israel and Isaac called Israelites, the Chosen People.​
To the Arabs and Muslims, calling Quran Zionist is tantamount to blasphemy. But is it though?​
Let me explore this issue based entirely upon Muhammad’s Quran itself and no other. A simple review of the relevant verses of the Quran provide all the necessary evidence.​
Those who want the complete verses, can read them in the Quran, as I am giving you chapter and verse where to find them. It is important to understand that Allah, and no one else, is speaking these words in these verses and Muslims (and Arabs) all over the world have been defying and disobeying their god Allah’s commands and statements with impunity and without reverence:​
Al Baqara 2:47 – “O Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favor which I (Allah) bestowed upon You and that I preferred you above the whole world “
Al Baqara 2:122 – “O Children of Israel! call to mind the special favor which I bestowed upon you and that I preferred you above the whole world”
Al Maida 5:21 – “O my people! enter the holy land (al-Ard al-Muqaddasa) which Allah hath assigned unto you and turn not back ignominiously for then will ye be overthrown to your own ruin.”
Al Aaraf 7:137 – “And We (Allah) made a people considered weak (and of no account) inheritors of lands in both east and west lands, whereon We sent down our blessings. The fair promise of the Lord was fulfilled for the Children of Israel, because they had patience and constancy and We leveled to the ground the great works and fine buildings which Pharaoh and his people erected (with such pride)”
(“inheritors of lands in both east and west lands” is actually the Promised Land of the Israelites on BOTH sides of the river Jordan).​
Al Aaraf 7:138 – “We took the Children of Israel (with safety) across the sea…”
Yunus 10:93 – “We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling-place and provided for them sustenance of the best”
Al Israa 17:2 – “We (Allah) gave Moses the Book (Torah) and made it a Guide to the Children of Israel (commanding): “Take not other than Me as Disposer of (your) affairs.”
Al Israa 17:104 – “And We (Allah) said thereafter to the Children of Israel “Dwell securely in the land (of promise)”:
Ta Ha 20:80 – “O ye Children of Israel! We delivered you from your enemy and We made a Covenant with you on the side of Mount (Sinai) and We sent down to you Manna and quails…”
Al Mu’min 40:53 – “We did aforetime give Moses the (Book of) Guidance and We gave the Book (Torah) in inheritance to the Children of Israel”
Al Dukhan 44:32 – “And We chose them (People of Israel) aforetime above all the nations knowingly”
Al Jathiyah 45:16 – “We did aforetime grant to the Children of Israel the Book (Torah) … and We favored them above all the nations”
Allah, in very clear Arabic, asserts that he fulfilled his promise to reward the Children of Israel with the Promised Land, the same land that the later conquering hordes of Muhammadan Arabs claim as exclusively theirs, contrary to their own Quran.​
Allah, in verse after verse and in different chapters, repeatedly and unambiguously asserts that it was Allah and only Allah who did the “choosing”, contrary to the hate-mongering declarations by anti Jews that it is the racist and arrogant Israelites and Jews who declare themselves the Chosen People.​
Based upon all that has been presented here, how can any sane and fair minded person accept the wild and unsubstantiated claims by Muslims, that the loose leaf and arbitrary collection of the Quran is correct, whereas the older Book, the Torah of the Bible, whose pages, chapters and verses are in perfect order and upon which the Quran’s foundations are rooted, is not?​
It is obvious that Muhammad did not realize that his loose-leaf notes had fully captured and preserved – though somewhat scrambled up from the more ancient accounts – actually verifying with detailed explanation, that the Israelites and the Jews had lived many centuries before him, settled and made their homeland as a nation in the very state of modern Israel and territories that have since been restored. These are the very lands that his Arab followers absurdly deny had ever previously belonged to anyone else but themselves.​
It is crystal clear, that contrary to the untested beliefs of hundreds of millions of Muhammadan Arabs and Muslims in the world today, their very own Quran in fact, fully supports and verifies the claims of the Jews for the land of Israel as their ancient and rightful home and nation.​
Thus, in a nutshell, the Quran is Zionist.​
 

DesertRose

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what do you think of the argument for Zionism this Muslim makes?
I care more about this message about Zionism that this rabbi makes.
Rabbi Weiss Rips the Ideology of Zionism

Departing this thread to focus on conveying the message of Islam.
I will pray for you.:)
“Say, ‘O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah . Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful'” [Quran 39:53]
 

Thunderian

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I care more about this message about Zionism that this rabbi makes.
Rabbi Weiss Rips the Ideology of Zionism

Departing this thread to focus on conveying the message of Islam.
I will pray for you.:)
Calling a lid, eh?

Maybe another Muslim will defend Islam?
 

DesertRose

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Calling a lid, eh?

Maybe another Muslim will defend Islam?
“Say, ‘O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah . Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful'” [Quran 39:53]
 

DesertRose

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@Thunderian
Let us agree to disagree.;):)
Departing this thread to focus on conveying the message of Islam.
I will pray for you.:)
“Say, ‘O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah . Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful'” [Quran 39:53]
 

Thunderian

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“Say, ‘O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah . Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful'” [Quran 39:53]
Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

You must be thirsty, DR.
 

TokiEl

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The bible is the Creator's inspired writ while the quran is the devil's direct dictation.


That's it and that's that.
 
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The traditional definition of pragmatism, like that used in published whitepapers, not Google (I don't use google and code my own software for Linux OS's that blocks it), is doing anything and everything, in short whatever it takes, to accomplish a goal, no matter the cost, because pragmatics believe, just like the Illuminati, that the end justifies the means. Pragmatics are Satanists.
Haven’t seen that definition anywhere but let’s run with it. How are these people that you say are satanists the people of the book again? How does satanists getting the promised land fulfill scripture in any sense of the word UNLESS you’re referring to the “satanist” GENTILE nations that God said He would send to oppress the Israelites for 400 years before releasing them with many great signs and wonders (I.e. not thru backroom deals like what happened with the “jews”)? Does the Bible say the Israelites will “do whatever it takes” (other than what God said it takes that is) and get the land or a portion of the land or does He say that when they repent of their sins and turn back to obeying Him THEN Hed gather them back from where He scattered them.

In other words modern day Zionism and the so called Jews the make it up are just the inverse of the real Zionism/Israelites if the book. They themselves have nothing to do with the book which is why they got their own land and made it secular like almost every other country in the world
 

meximonk

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Don't put words in my mouth. I never said pragmatists were people of the book. You can't be both. You can be a pragmatist and claim to be whatever you want, that is the very nature of the beast.
 
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