Why do Christians call Jesus the "SON of God " then later contradict themselves by saying Jesus "IS GOD"?

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Surley

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Todd said:
While this is perfectly fine explanation of what institutional Christianity teaches, this explanation cannot be found in the Bible. The concept and explanation of the Trinity is found only in the dogmatic teachings of the institutional church, not the Bible. No one who has never been exposed to the dogma of the church has every come up with the doctrine of Trinity on their own by simply reading the Bible.
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Jesus said when you have seen Me you have seen the Father...Before Abraham was I AM...There are several places in the New Testament where Jesus eluded to Who HE was.. he also said Nobody Knows The SON and no one Knows the FATHER except to whom He chooses to reveal HIM. He also said you have to become as little children to enter the KINGDOM of GOD.You have to trust in HIM just like a little child trusts.
 
seekinheart

seekinheart

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Surley said:
Jesus said when you have seen Me you have seen the Father...Before Abraham was I AM...There are several places in the New Testament where Jesus eluded to Who HE was.. he also said Nobody Knows The SON and no one Knows the FATHER except to whom He chooses to reveal HIM. He also said you have to become as little children to enter the KINGDOM of GOD.You have to trust in HIM just like a little child trusts.
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he also never proclaimed who he was straight away because the crucifixion would have happened much sooner, which I think really supports the view that, the revelation of christ was unfolded over time. When muslims ask things like why did he not say I am God. I think its the same reason he told the man to not tell anyone about his healing - it simply wasnt the time for that proclamation.
 
Todd

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Surley said:
Jesus said when you have seen Me you have seen the Father...Before Abraham was I AM...There are several places in the New Testament where Jesus eluded to Who HE was.. he also said Nobody Knows The SON and no one Knows the FATHER except to whom He chooses to reveal HIM. He also said you have to become as little children to enter the KINGDOM of GOD.You have to trust in HIM just like a little child trusts.
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And all of those statements can be reconciled without the concept of the Trinity. None of them explicitly demand the Trinity doctrine to be true. Your religious indoctrination is coloring your interpretation of those statements.
 
seekinheart

seekinheart

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Todd said:
And all of those statements can be reconciled without the concept of the Trinity. None of them explicitly demand the Trinity doctrine to be true. Your religious indoctrination is coloring your interpretation of those statements.
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So Jesus wasnt sinless? who is sinless but God?
 
Todd

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seekinheart said:
So Jesus wasnt sinless? who is sinless but God?
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Jesus the messiah is sinless. Jesus is the prototype of the perfect man. The bible says that one day we also will be perfect. Does that mean being perfect or sinless equates to being God? Of course not. So your argument that Jesus is God because he was sinless is incorrect.

How can we have hope that we can be perfect and sinless, without an example of a perfect sinless man. That is why Jesus as the messiah, a man, is our hope! If only God can be sinless than we have no hope of ever being sinless ourselves.
 
seekinheart

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Todd said:
Jesus the messiah is sinless. Jesus is the prototype of the perfect man. The bible says that one day we also will be perfect. Does that mean being perfect or sinless equates to being God? Of course not. So your argument that Jesus is God because he was sinless is incorrect.

How can we have hope that we can be perfect and sinless, without an example of a perfect sinless man. That is why Jesus as the messiah, a man, is our hope! If only God can be sinless than we have no hope of ever being sinless ourselves.
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we cant be sinless not in the flesh the world is fallen and we will all sin, even the most holy of men will have sinful emotion, desires, that they may wrestle with. Plus we will never be sinless because we've already sinned in this life Jesus didn't.

I dont subscribe to what you are saying here at all, I dont think its possible for fallen man, to be sinless. It sounds very works based and almost like relying on your own righteousness, eventually becoming "an evolved" being so to speak.
 
Todd

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seekinheart said:
we cant be sinless not in the flesh the world is fallen and we will all sin, even the most holy of men will have sinful emotion, desires, that they may wrestle with. Plus we will never be sinless because we've already sinned in this life Jesus didn't.

I dont subscribe to what you are saying here at all, I dont think its possible for fallen man, to be sinless. It sounds very works based and almost like relying on your own righteousness, eventually becoming "an evolved" being so to speak.
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I don't plan on being "fallen" forever. Isn't that the objective of being "born again"? Of course being "saved" is not a one time event like the mainstream church likes to portray. It's a process of God refining and purifying us to make us more like Jesus every day. Would Jesus have admonished us to be perfect if it were not possible?

Wrestling with desires and emotion is not sin. Acting on them is. The bible gives us a very clear picture of Jesus wrestling with both temptation and his own fleshly desires/will in the stories of his tempation during his 40 days of fasting and his prayer in the garden of Gethsemane before his crucifixion. Your indoctrination from the imperfect institutionalized church, has blinded you from the truth and hope of the good news that you can be free from the power of sin even in this fallen world.

I have every hope that I will be sinless some day. If not in this temporary realm, than in the ages to come for sure. Without the example of Jesus and the work he performed on the cross I would not have that hope. Whenver that day is, when I have become sinless it surely will not mean that I will have become God. And that my dear, is the whole reason we are having this discussion, as you contended that Jesus being sinless was proof he was God.
 
Todd

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Todd said:
I don't plan on being "fallen" forever. Isn't that the objective of being "born again"? Of course being "saved" is not a one time event like the mainstream church likes to portray. It's a process of God refining and purifying us to make us more like Jesus every day. Would Jesus have admonished us to be perfect if it were not possible?

Wrestling with desires and emotion is not sin. Acting on them is. The bible gives us a very clear picture of Jesus wrestling with both temptation and his own fleshly desires/will in the stories of his tempation during his 40 days of fasting and his prayer in the garden of Gethsemane before his crucifixion. Your indoctrination from the imperfect institutionalized church, has blinded you from the truth and hope of the good news that you can be free from the power of sin even in this fallen world.

I have every hope that I will be sinless some day. If not in this temporary realm, than in the ages to come for sure. Without the example of Jesus and the work he performed on the cross I would not have that hope. Whenver that day is, when I have become sinless it surely will not mean that I will have become God. And that my dear, is the whole reason we are having this discussion, as you contended that Jesus being sinless was proof he was God.
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God is good! After typing this response to @seekinheart the following devotion showed up in email.

We Shall Be Like Jesus

1 JOHN 3:2 NKJ 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

God's plan is to change you. He will not quit until you are like Jesus Christ.

ROMANS 8:29 NKJ 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

God has already made the decision. You WILL be like Jesus! (It may take awhile -- but God has plenty of time.)

Surely this doesn't mean an identical physical appearance, but perfection. Perfection morally, spiritually -- and yes, even physically and mentally.

So don't be discouraged with where you are now. God is still at work and He is no quitter.

PHILIPPIANS 1:6 NKJ 6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

How is God doing this? Primarily through His Word. So, stay in the Word. The more you expose yourself to the accurate Word of God, the more you will be changed into the likeness of Jesus Christ.

SAY THIS: God is at work to make me like Jesus!
 
seekinheart

seekinheart

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Todd said:
I don't plan on being "fallen" forever. Isn't that the objective of being "born again"? Of course being "saved" is not a one time event like the mainstream church likes to portray. It's a process of God refining and purifying us to make us more like Jesus every day. Would Jesus have admonished us to be perfect if it were not possible?

Wrestling with desires and emotion is not sin. Acting on them is. The bible gives us a very clear picture of Jesus wrestling with both temptation and his own fleshly desires/will in the stories of his tempation during his 40 days of fasting and his prayer in the garden of Gethsemane before his crucifixion. Your indoctrination from the imperfect institutionalized church, has blinded you from the truth and hope of the good news that you can be free from the power of sin even in this fallen world.

I have every hope that I will be sinless some day. If not in this temporary realm, than in the ages to come for sure. Without the example of Jesus and the work he performed on the cross I would not have that hope. Whenver that day is, when I have become sinless it surely will not mean that I will have become God. And that my dear, is the whole reason we are having this discussion, as you contended that Jesus being sinless was proof he was God.
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we will never be sinless though because we have already sinned.

For a man to be sinless in the flesh before the resurrection he must have been God, because all men were born with Sin. Bible claims Jesus wasnt born with sin, where did he get this nature? From God.

So in your opinion who was Jesus's father?
 
Todd

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seekinheart said:
we will never be sinless though because we have already sinned.

For a man to be sinless in the flesh before the resurrection he must have been God, because all men were born with Sin. Bible claims Jesus wasnt born with sin, where did he get this nature? From God.

So in your opinion who was Jesus's father?
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That is conveniently putting your spin on what the word sinless means. Jesus was and is and will be sinless. I was not sinless, I am working (by the grace of God and not by my own striving) towards becoming sinless and I will be sinless, if not in this age then in the ages to come.

Is someone who had cancer but has been cured called cancer free? In the same way someone who was sinful but has been healed by the grace of God and faith in the blood of Jesus, can become sinless. If not then God hasn’t really removed our sin as far as the East is from the West, has he?

Of course accepting the possibility that we can become sinless takes faith! Many churches proclaim to have faith but there dogma and doctrine reveals their lack of faith that the grace of God and the power of the blood of Jesus is greater than are sinful nature.

It’s much more convenient to proclaim we are doomed to continue in sin and believe Jesus only died to provide our escape from supposed eternal torment, than believe Jesus died so we could actually be free from the power of sin.
 
seekinheart

seekinheart

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Todd said:
That is conveniently putting your spin on what the word sinless means. Jesus was and is and will be sinless. I was not sinless, I am working (by the grace of God and not by my own striving) towards becoming sinless and I will be sinless, if not in this age then in the ages to come.

Is someone who had cancer but has been cured called cancer free? In the same way someone who was sinful but has been healed by the grace of God and faith in the blood of Jesus, can become sinless. If not then God hasn’t really removed our sin as far as the East is from the West, has he?

Of course accepting the possibility that we can become sinless takes faith! Many churches proclaim to have faith but there dogma and doctrine reveals their lack of faith that the grace of God and the power of the blood of Jesus is greater than are sinful nature.

It’s much more convenient to proclaim we are doomed to continue in sin and believe Jesus only died to provide our escape from supposed eternal torment, than believe Jesus died so we could actually be free from the power of sin.
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who was Jesus's father?
 
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