Why did Jesus have to die? Isn't that just immoral?

[Red Sky at Morning]

I'm convinced, given all the evidence, that in the past (over 10 000 years ago) there were beings on earth who possessed more advanced technologies than even us today. Human or not, I don't know. I know that they required humans to bring them gold, animals, crops. Their buildings exist in North Africa, the ME, South America, South and East Asia. People called them gods. People also sacrificed their young ones to them, perhaps it was a way for the gods to keep their human subjects in total submission, or maybe human blood/flesh was of some value to them.

These barbaric practices never existed in our part of the world. No animal or human sacrifice. We had no ideology to substantiate such an act. We offer gifts of food to our deceased ancestors, which we ourselves then eat (share with the spirits).

This is why this theme of human sacrifice goes is present in the Bible or some other religions.

As for religion mockery, there's nothing unusual about it. It's been going on for centuries for all religions. There are always skeptics, rebels, critics etc. As for Freemasonry etc., they might target certain ideas in religions because they see those ideas as going against their agenda. Particular ideas Freemasons oppose can be good or bad ones.

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-seed-of-the-serpent.3773/

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+33:1-6&version=NKJV

 

[Bacsi]

I know my heart is genuinely evil and wicked

Wrong. It's not. God is a beautiful Creator. It's very counter-productive to have such inferior thoughts about yourself.

I know that nothing that I can do will make my past, present and future sins disappear.

What for? We are not here for our sins to be erased, but to love, to learn and to evolve. It's destructive to be so focused on your guilt, real and imagined.

 

[Bacsi]

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-seed-of-the-serpent.3773/

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+33:1-6&version=NKJV

Those Freemasonic games are indeed deep in the Bible, because that religion/ideology came out of Christian lands. Naturally, they based their beliefs on the Bible.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Those Freemasonic games are indeed deep in the Bible, because that religion/ideology came out of Christian lands. Naturally, they based their beliefs on the Bible.

​

Just because they put their badge on the front doesn't mean they put the words in the book.

Sometimes people try to infiltrate and twist a thing to discredit it. I wonder if this has relevance to the OP?

 

[Bacsi]

Here's the Biblical plan currently carried out by Freemasonic banking interest-based financial slavery pyramid of the world:

19 Do not charge a fellow Israelite interest, whether on money or food or anything else that may earn interest. 20 You may charge a foreigner interest, but not a fellow Israelite, so that the Lord your God may bless you in everything you put your hand to in the land you are entering to possess. (Deut 23:19-20)

12 The Lord will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands. You will lend to many nations but will borrow from none. (Deut 28:12)

10 “Foreigners will rebuild your walls,
and their kings will serve you.
Though in anger I struck you,
in favor I will show you compassion.
11 Your gates will always stand open,
they will never be shut, day or night,
so that people may bring you the wealth of the nations—
their kings led in triumphal procession.
12 For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish;
it will be utterly ruined. (Isaiah 60:10-12)

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Here's the Biblical plan currently carried out by Freemasonic banking interest-based financial slavery pyramid of the world:

19 Do not charge a fellow Israelite interest, whether on money or food or anything else that may earn interest. 20 You may charge a foreigner interest, but not a fellow Israelite, so that the Lord your God may bless you in everything you put your hand to in the land you are entering to possess. (Deut 23:19-20)

12 The Lord will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands. You will lend to many nations but will borrow from none. (Deut 28:12)

10 “Foreigners will rebuild your walls,
and their kings will serve you.
Though in anger I struck you,
in favor I will show you compassion.
11 Your gates will always stand open,
they will never be shut, day or night,
so that people may bring you the wealth of the nations—
their kings led in triumphal procession.
12 For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish;
it will be utterly ruined. (Isaiah 60:10-12)

No way!!!

You mean to tell me there are unscrupulous folk who are prepared to rip pieces of scripture out of context to justify their ungoldly agendas?!

 

[JoChris]

I don't like C.S. Lewis. I also think he was on hook of the freemasons. Never read Perelandra. But will check out the book. Thank you.

On a side note Red Sky and I have slightly differing opinions on C.S.Lewis due to my concern about Lewis' muddled theology. I personally would still read his novels as I am aware of his fuzziness but I would never read his theological works now.
His main character in The pilgrim's regress (whole book link) describes the inner emptiness and the desire for "more" after seeing an island far away. The characters he meets along are the 20st century mindsets he once held but rejected.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

On a side note Red Sky and I have slightly differing opinions on C.S.Lewis due to my concern about Lewis' muddled theology. I personally would still read his novels as I am aware of his fuzziness but I would never read his theological works now.
His main character in The pilgrim's regress(whole book link) describes the inner emptiness and the desire for "more" after seeing an island far away. The characters he meets along are the 20st century mindsets he once held but rejected.

I do agree on the slightly imprecise blending of myth, theological speculation etc. Like a chicken dinner, eat the meat, throw the bones away ;-)

P.s. I loved the Pilgrim's Regress!

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Bacsi

Do you believe it is immoral to charge interest?

 

[JoChris]

Wrong. It's not. God is a beautiful Creator. It's very counter-productive to have such inferior thoughts about yourself.



What for? We are not here for our sins to be erased, but to love, to learn and to evolve. It's destructive to be so focused on your guilt, real and imagined.

I am a sinner in need of a Saviour. Just like everyone who ever walks this earth, I, you, typers on this forum and everyone else - we all fall short of God's standard Romans 3:10-19..
That is not low self-esteem talking. It is honesty. If you were honest with yourself you would realise that nothing you can do will purify yourself from the evil you have already done. A few good deeds, resolutions to live morally and/or a few rituals will not make an all-knowing God unknow the true you, the you only He really knows.

 

[JoChris]

I do agree on the slightly imprecise blending of myth, theological speculation etc. Like a chicken dinner, eat the meat, throw the bones away ;-)

P.s. I loved the Pilgrim's Regress!

My personal favourite is the Screwtape Letters. A recent author has done a very good sequel. As from one devil to another. (Openlibrary- free membership.)

 

[Jennymurdock]

The answer to the question is simple. Christ was sent to incarnate as a man, He is God, but in the form of a man to save us weak humans from God's wrath. The Old Testament was a prophecy of the coming of Christ as a man to save stubborn ignorant foolish sinners (The Jews, originally). Since the Religionist Jews rejected the Messiah (as the Old Testament prophets said they would), Jesus turned to the gentiles and used them to build His Church. Christ was resurrected after death (He was to die for all on earth). Immediately the Pharisees spread lies saying He was not resurrected. That is the teachings of demons.
Even demons KNOW that Christ is the Son of God, they admit it (see New Testament where Jesus cast out the legions of demons and they didn't want to go back to hell, so He sent them into hogs). But, they will not repent.
So, God gave us free will. Which includes the will to do wrong or right.
Other religions do not have God incarnating as man. Those who believe the lies that satan propagates denying the Deity of Christ will not have His protection from satan. Read "The Cost; My Life on a Terrorist Hit List" by Ali Husnain. It shows the extreme violence and intolerance of Islam towards those who don't believe their "prophet".

 

[Karlysymon]

"Why did Jesus have to die? Isn't it immoral?"

Three words: The Moral Law.

Transgression of the Law demanded the life of the transgressor. Why? Because it is immutable and it turned the transgressor into God's sworn enemy, out to destroy. Even with our corrupt justice systems on earth, breaking the law demands that you die or be confined away from society, so everyone can live in relative safety.
God could simply have blotted Adam and Eve out of existence and created a new sinless pair but there's the little problem of freewill. Freewill makes rebellion an ever-present possibility. therefore, how many Adams and Eves would God have to create because they'd all eventually sin/rebel? So the choice was, either the Law is abrogated so that there is no transgression or the transgressor dies because the Law is eternal as God, Himself. Because God is just, the demands of the Law had to be met, which isn't any different from someone stepping in to serve my life-sentence or be electrocuted in my place.

 

[Alanantic]

There's no shame in being a martyr for a cause?

"The nail that sticks up gets hammered down." Chinese proverb

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

A good explanation (even if you don't agree).

 

[elsbet]

Well, there you go. That movie about native south Americans is a real deception. The human sacrifices were more willing in their culture than Jesus sweating blood in Gethsemany and asking God to please spare him if possible.

How many times should I repeat? Willing or unwilling - it doesn't matter. You can brainwash people to die for Adolf Hitler, their death is not glorified simply by fact of being enthusiastically willing.

The act of killing by itself is barbaric. Life was given by God not to be taken by anyone. The idea that God supposedly killed a human for the sins of mankind is abhorrent regardless of the sacrifice's wishes. A dove, a lamb, Isaac, daughter of Jephthah or Jesus, sacrifice is immoral because it's wrong to take away life from somebody who didn't do anything bad. It's wrong to free people from responsibility by punishing anybody but themselves for it. It's wrong to portray God as a vicious angry character who wants blood of an innocent man to appease his unhappiness with other people.

You don't get it. Sacrifice of any life, especially human sacrifice, is abhorrent.

I think you are not understanding-- put simply,
He didn't stay dead.

O, Death.. where is your victory?

He overcame Death... that is the Good News. ♡

 

[JoChris]

I think you are not understanding-- put simply,
He didn't stay dead.

O, Death.. where is your victory?

He overcame Death... that is the Good News. ♡

https://y-jesus.com/would-you-die-for-a-lie/

 

[elsbet]

https://y-jesus.com/would-you-die-for-a-lie/

Excellent!

 

[Bacsi]

I think you are not understanding-- put simply,
He didn't stay dead.

O, Death.. where is your victory?

He overcame Death... that is the Good News. ♡

The focus is always on death, not resurrection. "He died for you". "His blood washed away your sins". Etc. Churches and necks of Christians sport crosses, never empty tombs.

 

[Bacsi]

Here is one of the few verses from Prophet Isaiah I appreciate, because I don't think this one, unlike others in the same book, was touched by the Levitical (that is to say, "priestly") redactors, and that even before the Dead Sea Scrolls era, and thus transmuted, by them, into the "Deutero-Isaiah" of the Old Testament canon :

​

"“He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.” ​

(Isaiah 66:3)​

"I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings". Hosea 6:6