We Are Living In The Beginning Stages Of Revelation

[Thunderian]

@Thunderian, I thought you were looking for evidence of collusion ...

The above-linked book, by Poliakov, goes into great detail concerning the rise of the Jewish banking houses in relation to, especially, the Papal Courts. As to the identity of "Mystery Babylon," I leave it to others to define and identify.

I haven't addressed your post about the Roman Catholic Church yet, but I will point out that the people behind CUFI and the RCC have nothing at all to do with each other.

I'm interested in seeing if Todd can make a case from scripture that CUFI is connected with Mystery Babylon.

 

[Serveto]

I haven't addressed your post about the Roman Catholic Church yet, but I will point out that the people behind CUFI and the RCC have nothing at all to do with each other.

Thank you. I do understand the vast divide between Protestants and Catholics, which is why I specified that Todd's was, to me, a good example of Protestant collusion, and Poliakov's book was descriptive of Jewish-Catholic collusion, and by that I mean power elites of Judaism (or the Jewish nation, then in exhile) and Catholicism.

I'm interested in seeing if Todd can make a case from scripture that CUFI is connected with Mystery Babylon.

I understand. I will sit out and listen for awhile.

 

[Thunderian]

All good, Serveto.

Revelation tells us that Mystery Babylon is a physical city, one that has spiritual and political power, is clothed in gold, jewels and royal colours, and which is drunk with the blood of saints. There is no protestant city that fits the bill perfectly, and no Jewish one either, but there is certainly a Roman Catholic one.

 

[Todd]

All good, Serveto.

Revelation tells us that Mystery Babylon is a physical city, one that has spiritual and political power, is clothed in gold, jewels and royal colours, and which is drunk with the blood of saints. There is no protestant city that fits the bill perfectly, and no Jewish one either, but there is certainly a Roman Catholic one.

Why do you take something in Revelation, a city, and take it to mean literally one city. God's people and the church are also referred to as city, allegorically in scripture, so why do you take this one verse literally to mean one single city?

 

[Thunderian]

Why do you take something in Revelation, a city, and take it to mean literally one city. God's people and the church are also referred to as city, allegorically in scripture, so why do you take this one verse literally to mean one single city?

Revelation17:18 - And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Does that sound like THE Church? Or a particular church?

Read the description of the woman and the city in Revelation 17 and 18 and then please show us how this matches up with a body of American evangelical Zionists like the people at CUFI, and not the Roman Catholic city/state of the Vatican.

 

[Todd]

Revelation17:18 - And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.ch

Does that sound like THE Church? Or a particular church?

Yes, it sounds like a description of the assembly of people (the definition of the word church). Jesus said the body of christ is like a city set on a hill (Matthew 5:14). Does that mean the body of Christ all resides in one physical, literal City?

The city in Revelation 21:2 is also a bride...again more allegorical descriptions of God's faithful people.

Read the description of the woman and the city in Revelation 17 and 18 and then please show us how this matches up with a body of American evangelical Zionists like the people at CUFI, and not the Roman Catholic city/state of the Vatican.

I agree that the Roman Catholic Church is part of it. You do realize that the protestant / evangelical Church came out of the Roman Catholic Church...the calling of God's people out of Babylon is still in process and will only becoming louder and stronger in the last day. Every new denomination and sect of Christianity comes about because God gives revelation to his remnant believers to restore a portion of truth of the original covenant/gospel. When the majority of the established Church does not accept the restoration of a truth, a new denomination/sect/movement is created. That process will continue until the day Jesus returns.

 

[AspiringSoul]

All good, Serveto.
Revelation tells us that Mystery Babylon is a physical city, one that has spiritual and political power, is clothed in gold, jewels and royal colours, and which is drunk with the blood of saints. There is no protestant city that fits the bill perfectly, and no Jewish one either, but there is certainly a Roman Catholic one.

Yes it does, however in the bible when a city is mentioned it symbolises not only a geographic location but an entire nation.
For example when Jesus spoke of the jewish nation he said
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together,

Also, are you implying that the RCC is drunk with the blood of saints? I thought one of the major points of contention between the protestants and catholics was that the catholics 'worship the saints'?
Meanwhile if you pay attention it doesn't merely just say "blood of saints" it says

In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

Basically this is in line with what Jesus spoke about Jerusalem.

Furthermore you shouldn't forget the connection here between Babylon.
I have posted a lot of scripture before which relates Mystery babylon to ancient babylon, the chaldean rulers specifically.

-Zechariah 5, here it talks of the curse that goes over the land. The 'one who swears falsely' and the 'thief'. In otherwords, the system of usury is the curse. Yet both symbolise trees and stones.
In the same prophecy God refers to the 'wicked woman' who is taken to Babylon/Shinar to set her house there.

-Go to the book of Habakkuk 2 and you see how the chaldeans were condemned from God. Basically it details how they enslaved nations through usury..and then it says the debtors will rise up to destroy them. In the same prophecy it once again makes reference to stones and trees (the beams and bricks of the house who will SPEAK as witnesses).

-Go to Jeremiah 2 and 3 and see that the 'adulteress/prostitute' is highlighted several times over and once again the stones and trees are mentioned.


So you have a connection
usury, the curse, the whore/adulterness and they are connected ONLY with the Chaldeans and then with Mystery babylon.

So when i think of mystery babylon I think of Jerusalem and the corrupt jewish elite who have betrayed the Bible and instead gone into the money lending business. Their wealth has become a form of idolatory for them and they have also enslaved most of the world through this system.
So God is basically saying, the world will rise up to destroy the whore just like the Habbakuk 2 prophecy foretold the end of babylon/chaldeans.



Finally, regarding the death of the prophets and saints
do you what is interesting here?
HOW they are killed
ie Wood/stones
they are crucified/hung like with Jesus or they are stoned or beaten with a wooden staff.



I don't see how it has a connection with the Vatican/RCC EXCEPT in 1 context
'the whore sits on the beast' so in a sense when we talk of the city of 7 hills, 'rome' (being a world system) will be at one point, ruled by the Jews until they are removed from this position.
At present this is the case but the Beast is not fully established yet.
The city of 7 hills is also Jerusalem.
Isaiah 1
How the faithful city has become a harlot, She who was full of justice! Righteousness once lodged in her, But now murderers.

 

[Thunderian]

Yes it does, however in the bible when a city is mentioned it symbolises not only a geographic location but an entire nation.
For example when Jesus spoke of the jewish nation he said
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together,

Also, are you implying that the RCC is drunk with the blood of saints? I thought one of the major points of contention between the protestants and catholics was that the catholics 'worship the saints'?
Meanwhile if you pay attention it doesn't merely just say "blood of saints" it says

In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

Basically this is in line with what Jesus spoke about Jerusalem.

Furthermore you shouldn't forget the connection here between Babylon.
I have posted a lot of scripture before which relates Mystery babylon to ancient babylon, the chaldean rulers specifically.

-Zechariah 5, here it talks of the curse that goes over the land. The 'one who swears falsely' and the 'thief'. In otherwords, the system of usury is the curse. Yet both symbolise trees and stones.
In the same prophecy God refers to the 'wicked woman' who is taken to Babylon/Shinar to set her house there.

-Go to the book of Habakkuk 2 and you see how the chaldeans were condemned from God. Basically it details how they enslaved nations through usury..and then it says the debtors will rise up to destroy them. In the same prophecy it once again makes reference to stones and trees (the beams and bricks of the house who will SPEAK as witnesses).

-Go to Jeremiah 2 and 3 and see that the 'adulteress/prostitute' is highlighted several times over and once again the stones and trees are mentioned.


So you have a connection
usury, the curse, the whore/adulterness and they are connected ONLY with the Chaldeans and then with Mystery babylon.

So when i think of mystery babylon I think of Jerusalem and the corrupt jewish elite who have betrayed the Bible and instead gone into the money lending business. Their wealth has become a form of idolatory for them and they have also enslaved most of the world through this system.
So God is basically saying, the world will rise up to destroy the whore just like the Habbakuk 2 prophecy foretold the end of babylon/chaldeans.



Finally, regarding the death of the prophets and saints
do you what is interesting here?
HOW they are killed
ie Wood/stones
they are crucified/hung like with Jesus or they are stoned or beaten with a wooden staff.



I don't see how it has a connection with the Vatican/RCC EXCEPT in 1 context
'the whore sits on the beast' so in a sense when we talk of the city of 7 hills, 'rome' (being a world system) will be at one point, ruled by the Jews until they are removed from this position.
At present this is the case but the Beast is not fully established yet.
The city of 7 hills is also Jerusalem.
Isaiah 1
How the faithful city has become a harlot, She who was full of justice! Righteousness once lodged in her, But now murderers.

The city is not Jerusalem or the nation of Israel because it is utterly destroyed forever and Heaven rejoices at the fact.

The notion that Mystery Babylon is Israel or Jerusalem is at odds with God's love for it and it's prophesied future as the seat of Christ's kingdom.

 

[Thunderian]

Yes, it sounds like a description of the assembly of people (the definition of the word church). Jesus said the body of christ is like a city set on a hill (Matthew 5:14). Does that mean the body of Christ all resides in one physical, literal City?

The city in Revelation 21:2 is also a bride...again more allegorical descriptions of God's faithful people.



I agree that the Roman Catholic Church is part of it. You do realize that the protestant / evangelical Church came out of the Roman Catholic Church...the calling of God's people out of Babylon is still in process and will only becoming louder and stronger in the last day. Every new denomination and sect of Christianity comes about because God gives revelation to his remnant believers to restore a portion of truth of the original covenant/gospel. When the majority of the established Church does not accept the restoration of a truth, a new denomination/sect/movement is created. That process will continue until the day Jesus returns.

I don't accept any of that, but just want to point out that the woman in Revelation is the opposite of the Church. She is a whore, and Christ's church is a virgin bride. There may well be components of protestant "churches" that align themselves with the whore RCC, but American evangelical Zionists don't fit the bill just because they love Israel. Sorry.

 

[AspiringSoul]

The city is not Jerusalem or the nation of Israel because it is utterly destroyed forever and Heaven rejoices at the fact.

The notion that Mystery Babylon is Israel or Jerusalem is at odds with God's love for it and it's prophesied future as the seat of Christ's kingdom.

Well, pay closer attention then.
yes, it is talking about the jewish nation but in the real context it's talking about a false system run by jews
“‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,
you mighty city of Babylon!

the great city of Babylon will be thrown down,

this is just symbolic of the system that'll be destroyed.
the system is a world system ..yet it is symbolically called 'city of babylon' yet it's also called a 'whore'
so all the parts talking about this 'city' becoming a 'haunt' are not meant to be taken literally...the idea is the system being destroyed and everyone who's part of the system loses all their wealth

 

[Thunderian]

so all the parts talking about this 'city' becoming a 'haunt' are not meant to be taken literally

A sign that someone is about to really screw up the Bible is when they say, "that part is not meant to be taken literally."

Once you start making things in the Bible figurative, where do you stop?

 

[Lisa]

In my ancestors' days, you had the Aztec empire oppressing the other tribes and practicing human sacrifice.

It's true evil dictatorships are not new. And demonic dictatorships are not new.

But if you wanted to avoid being a victim of Aztec cannibalism, it would have not have been that hard. The Aztecs could not put a chip inside your skin that would tell them your exact location. They didn't even have your photograph. They didn't even have your fingerprints. They didn't have access to your text messages. They didn't have your social security number. They didn't have your Facebook friend list and messages. They didn't even security cameras, much less an entire massive Orwellian surveillance sysem. They didn't have your smart phone information telling them your every move and recording everything about you. Suppose they decided to take away your right to own spears. How would they even implement that? I'm sure they probably had some primitive forms of social engineering, propaganda and surveillance but they would have been a joke compared to what we're used to. They couldn't have implemented the Antichrist system even if they wanted to. Things were not as centralized back then. They expected tribute from the other tribes but the other tribes kept their autonomy.

The technologization and centralization are prerequisites before the Antichrist system can be established. And now they exist on levels never seen before. And the elites are blatantly attempting to build the Antichrist system. They're not even trying to hide it. They're openly trying to do it right in front of us, implicitly mocking us like "what are you gonna do about it?". Because we know and they know the answer is nothing. It's not going to be that long before they're killing Christians and telling us to accept chips on our foreheads. It's like they looked at the book of Revelation as an instruction manual. Unless we all turn into a bunch of revolutionaries, the Antichrist system will be implemented. And we're not going to all turn into a bunch of revolutionaries. Would people rather actually set off the revolution or stare at their phone screens? You could shove everyone into concentration camps. Just let them stare at their phones and they'll be perfectly cool with it, taking selfies in the gas chambers. I won't even want to look at the Christians because I'll be so ashamed. Today's Christianity is part of the problem. Today's Christians are not warriors like King David. They're not about to go conquer entire continents. They're not even going to chase some money-changers out of a temple. They're a bunch of pansies who want to convince you- and themselves- that their pansiness is a form of enlightenment. At least the Muslims will put up some resistance.

You make some good points, however I don't believe there is any way anyone can stop or slow down what's going to happen. The only thing you could do anyway would be to warn people and they probably wouldn't believe you and go back to their phones.

I kind wondered if the first 2 seals were opened since it seems to me that the conquering army was being brought to many different countries in the form of immigrants.
The 2nd seal about peace being taken from the earth seems to be ramping up some days more than others...

Then there is Israel, some Jews are interested in rebuilding the temple and have trained priests, have the plans and have the implements needed to sacrifice in the new temple. They seem to only be lacking a red heifer but they are current working on getting an approved red heifer. Which I think is pretty fascinating really. When they get that heifer than I think we shall see a real push for a temple and I wonder then if there will be the treaty made that will allow it.

I think it's also fascinating that the first time in the history of the world we are at a time when we can all watch world events at the same time. I'm thinking of the witnesses where the world will see them dead for three days. Never in the history of the world could that happen except today with the internet and now personal phones, everyone who ignores your warning can tune into the dead witnesses...

 

[Etagloc]

No one leaves this world alive. I ain't trippin. We're all destined for the same thing. I know how my story has to end. I've accepted this a long time ago since I was 13. I know I'll have to leave one day and when that day comes I want to leave standing up. How others go is their decision.

 

[Etagloc]

"And Moses said unto the children of Gad and to the children of Reuben, Shall your brethren go to war, and shall ye sit here?" -Numbers 32:6

"They will not gain this liberation by chance but through the praxis of their quest for it, through their recognition of the necessity to fight for it. And this fight, because of the purpose given it by the oppressed, will actually constitute an act of love opposing the lovelessness which lies at the heart of the oppressors' violence, lovelessness even when clothed in false generosity." -Paulo Freire, Pedagogy of the Oppressed

"Freedom is acquired by conquest, not by gift. It must be pursued constantly and responsibly. Freedom is not an ideal located outside of man; nor is it an idea which becomes myth. It is rather the indispensable condition for the quest for human completion." -Paulo Freire

I understand that if I am to eat, then I must work. I pray for God to provide for me and ensure that I am able to eat and have a place to sleep. But I must get off my knees after I pray and I must work. I understand that my paycheck will not fall from the sky. It is common knowledge that our paychecks will not fall from the sky. Why should our freedom and dignity be any different? If you are waiting for freedom and dignity to fall from the sky, how long will you wait for freedom to fall from the sky? We've waited for 2,000 years and Jesus has not come down from the sky. You will spend your entire life waiting if you are waiting for freedom to fall from the sky. To think this will happen is pure superstition. You won't get a paycheck if you're not willing to work.

 

[Etagloc]

When Jesus returns, I do not think he will come down from the sky because I do not think he is in the sky. I think he is inside of us and when he returns I think that is where he will come from.

 

[AspiringSoul]

A sign that someone is about to really screw up the Bible is when they say, "that part is not meant to be taken literally."

Once you start making things in the Bible figurative, where do you stop?

Because i directly quoted the part it says "the city of Babylon"
Does this city literally exist?
Or does it refer to a system that's a copy of Babylon? Ie in line with Zechariah 5 the wicked woman taken to Babylon?

The Jew/Jerusalem connection is done referring to a system built by Jewish people..in Zechariah 5 and Habakkuk 2 we find the connection is based on
usury
I take my ideas from multiple parts of scripture So you need to pay more attention ie Jeremiah 2/3,Habakkuk 2, Zechariah 5
Go read them but keep in mind what's I highlighted ie the stones/trees connection right to the killing of prophets and saints, the usury connection.

It is built on Jewish people rejecting God and his prophets and making money and political power their Idols...hence you get a secular Rothschild owned "Israel" that protects itself with walls and weapons
Completely anti messianic

 

[AspiringSoul]

@Lisa
If it wasn't for or the the colonial era (the first seal) and the post ww2 context (second seal) you would not have immigration.

Immigration is part of the 3rd seal which relates to capistalism and globalisation

Firstly Britain France Germany took in immigrants from their colonial subject nations hence u get Indians, Pakistanis, Caribbean folk in England. You get Africans in France and you get Turks in Germany...same goes for Belgium, Portugal and holland.
All these immigrants were there to build up the economies and work manual labour.
so immigration isn't about muslims conquering you but the other way round.

 

[SkepticCat]

Please explain your meaning, Etagloc, because it looks like you're calling Christians pansies because they aren't violently opposing the enemies of God and taking over the world in his name. Did I get that wrong?

... but he's right, though. If you press people, they'll probably call themselves 'Christians'. When push comes to shove, though, how many are actually *living* the Christian life? Not many... and people will celebrate birthdays, Christmas (X-mas, I guess) and Easter and all the other pagan traditions because people neither know nor care about these matters. What does matter is X-factor and ambition.

Truth is Earth is in a terrible state, spiritually speaking. It's probably always been so but we're living in a time where the appalling state of affairs is so completely obvious and in-your-face refusing to see it becomes simply absurd. We're wealthier than ever before but the wealth is more inequally distributed than it's ever been. Trump and his 17-person cabinet, all elite billionaires, are wealthier than 43,000,000 households, how the **** can people be stupid enough to think he's here to save them? Poison is being distributed right on top of people's heads in the skies, openly, but they're in denial about it. We have free access to information like never before yet people are more ignorant than ever. Many people accept the idea their own government perpetrated 9/11 yet nothing is being done about it and people are still accepting official government word and mocking 'conspiracy theorists'. And now people are accepting satanic symbolism in the 'entertainment' around them and adopting the symbols of the occult elite as their own, wilfully and idiotically submitting to the mind control of their overlords.

I honestly don't think it's ever been worse. I think there are certain spiritual rules the occultists have to abide by. They have to show us how bad things are first (the warning) and if we then don't react they're allowed to go ahead and show us the consequences of that. By our inaction we're setting ourselves up for the introduction of the worst, most brutal reign there's ever been, the satanic Beast global empire described in the Bible.

 

[Serveto]

When Jesus returns, I do not think he will come down from the sky because I do not think he is in the sky. I think he is inside of us and when he returns I think that is where he will come from.

I think you are onto something here. I hesitate to quote scripture because people can easily, and often rightly, say that one is either taking things out of context or misunderstanding, but I have always liked to consider this one, from St. John ...

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”

(1 John 3:2)​

Not meaning to place myself in the company of the "sons of God" by saying "we," but if it is true that "when he shall appear, we shall be like him," I wonder if the reverse is also true: that he shall not appear unless and until we are like him? If so, it might, just might, put some onus upon us to become like him, however that is best done.

 

[mecca]

Why should our freedom and dignity be any different? If you are waiting for freedom and dignity to fall from the sky, how long will you wait for freedom to fall from the sky? We've waited for 2,000 years and Jesus has not come down from the sky. You will spend your entire life waiting if you are waiting for freedom to fall from the sky. To think this will happen is pure superstition. You won't get a paycheck if you're not willing to work.

True.