Thoughts On The Original Quranic View Of Women

[rainerann]

What about the see through veils. They would be more acceptable because you can see their faces. I think they look really pretty too.

The see through veils on the traditional burka's are just as bad. We should not support a system of oppression against women and be forced to call it religious freedom. I am tired of people always trying to tell a country who created religious freedom, what religious freedom means. It doesn't mean supporting things that promote injustice against women in every place except in a country that has laws that protect women separately from their religions. The burka is tied to an ideology that is the main problem. I do want to protect my children from things like this.

When I watched the video, I felt grateful that school is required by law and a curriculum is established that has to be followed in order to receive credit for it in the US even when you consider the problems we have with our school systems. That way girls aren't taken out of schools to attend religious schools that don't teach them math or English. The system that supports women wearing any kind of veil in other countries is a system that supports taking girls out of schools to receive an education that does not include math or science. We should not pretend that accepting this is the same as giving someone religious freedom. It is same as looking the other way where there is real injustice. It is the same as saying it doesn't matter if this is happening somewhere else because it is not happening to me. If it is happening somewhere else, it could just as easily have an influence on where we are. I don't support religious freedom where it creates injustice. I don't think any good can come of it. It is the same as carelessly believing anything anyone says is true if they try to make it sound spiritual. Some things are not true even though people believe them. Some things are not true and they harm others even though people believe them. This is the difference. Religious freedom is given wherever someone believes something that may or may not be true that causes no harm. Where it causes harm, it should not be called religious freedom.

 

[Tatilina]

I was referring to something like the gypsy veils

They are gaining popularity here where I live. I love them.

 

[Tatilina]

Even I'd wear one

 

[Tatilina]

Here in Canada, women where, scarfs and veils. Some wear them for religious reasons like Christian women and Christian Orthodox (yes there is a difference) and some for cultural reasons like Ukrainian, Gypsies and the oh heck what do you call them...... um.....the Amish!!! All have different styles so you can't ban them entirely because a lot of women love wearing head coverings. I have lots of thick hair that grows really fast, so I'm good lol.

 

[Lady]

Here in Canada, women where, scarfs and veils. Some wear them for religious reasons like Christian women and Christian Orthodox (yes there is a difference) and some for cultural reasons like Ukrainian, Gypsies and the oh heck what do you call them...... um.....the Amish!!! All have different styles so you can't ban them entirely because a lot of women love wearing head coverings. I have lots of thick hair that grows really fast, so I'm good lol.

These fashion veils are new to me. I have watched women (only in documentaries) attempt to do common activities-while wearing full head covering-such as eating and drinking. It was sad to see that this is a tricky hindrance to quenching one's thirst, etc. I am surprised that the face veils are not super soiled as the women go through the day.
Of course, at home, I imagine the face veils are not worn, so this is a situation when out and about or visiting in homes in mixed company.
Once again, we turn back to the topic at hand: are these views found in the original text of the Quran? From what Manama has stated a few times, they are more recent teachings that are not part of true Islam. Now what would be great would be to analyze these texts with the insertions which anyone can copy and paste in a post, or I myself will do so when I next get time much later today.

 

[JoChris]

I was referring to something like the gypsy veils

They are gaining popularity here where I live. I love them.

Only would gain popularity here if they doubled as mosquito nets.

 

[Lady]

@Tanya @JoChris
Ha! These are very attractive and seductive. They are called gypsy veils-is it really a fashion thing? I guess I can see that as things come and go.
I wonder if this is a prelude for face covering in a preIslamic nation. Tanya, you are in Canada, right? Trudeau is proIslam if I understand correctly. What are the political rumblings there as far as bringing Islamic religious practices and Sharia into the nation as a whole?

 

[Kung Fu]

I'm going to be very honest, i hate afghan refugees for many reasons related to country problems BUT they are being mislead to be used as tools is a definite reality. .

Where are you from that you hate Afghan refugees? Pakistan perhaps?

I know this deserves a thread of its own but I'll just leave this little bit here. Afghanistan and the Afghan people are the only people at the moment who have fought Satanic world powers and have come out on top. The US has only lost billions coming into Afghanistan with no accomplishments to show for it. The hadith also state that the army of Mahdi will come from Afghanistan (Khorasan) who will then fight the anti-Christ so they must be doing something right

 

[manama]

@Tanya @JoChris
Ha! These are very attractive and seductive. They are called gypsy veils-is it really a fashion thing? I guess I can see that as things come and go.
I wonder if this is a prelude for face covering in a preIslamic nation. Tanya, you are in Canada, right? Trudeau is proIslam if I understand correctly. What are the political rumblings there as far as bringing Islamic religious practices and Sharia into the nation as a whole?

those are more likely to be worn by belly dancers etc

ive heard that veils in preislamic times or in ancient egypt were worn by the concubines or dancers etc to give a sense of erotica lol

 

[manama]

Where are you from that you hate Afghan refugees? Pakistan perhaps?

I know this deserves a thread of its own but I'll just leave this little bit here. Afghanistan and the Afghan people are the only people at the moment who have fought Satanic world powers and have come out on top. The US has only lost billions coming into Afghanistan with no accomplishments to show for it. The hadith also state that the army of Mahdi will come from Afghanistan (Khorasan) who will then fight the anti-Christ so they must be doing something right

Meh "satanic world powers" afghanistan is the definition of hell. Thats pretty sad that they fight USSR and US and become cancerous. The people are stubborn and refuse to change, they don't follow the laws; The last time we asked refugees to go back, they kidnapped 200 kids of ours to sell to slavery before getting caught. Not only are they extremely arrogant calling themselves "superior race", they are also extremists and attacked our people including the people of kalasha village and forced them to accept Islam even though they follow the kalasha religion, they also recently attacked another small village of chaman. They have done nothing good for the country or the world. Even their descendants are barbarians and they wont even try to build their own country, they are trying to destroy ours. They live in our country and hate our country, we don't need them here. A stain on current society, that is what they are to me.
They haven't come out on "top" they are way too below and refuse to rise up, violence is all they know.

As far as hadith is concered Mahdi isn't from afghanistan and khorasan includes area from bit of china, afghanistan, pakistan, india, bangladesh etc.
Mahdi is from the tribe of Quraish and will be from Saudi arabia considering that upon finding out his role he will try to hide in kaabah to save himself from death and the responsibility. The first army however will be of Khorasan who will fight against the Princes in the civil war.

 

[Kung Fu]

Meh "satanic world powers" afghanistan is the definition of hell. Thats pretty sad that they fight USSR and US and become cancerous. The people are stubborn and refuse to change, they don't follow the laws; The last time we asked refugees to go back, they kidnapped 200 kids of ours to sell to slavery before getting caught. Not only are they extremely arrogant calling themselves "superior race", they are also extremists and attacked our people including the people of kalasha village and forced them to accept Islam even though they follow the kalasha religion, they also recently attacked another small village of chaman. They have done nothing good for the country or the world. Even their descendants are barbarians and they wont even try to build their own country, they are trying to destroy ours. They live in our country and hate our country, we don't need them here. A stain on current society, that is what they are to me.
They haven't come out on "top" they are way too below and refuse to rise up, violence is all they know.

It doesn't quite make sense that they would hate Pakistan but yet live in it when you don't take into account the fact that parts of Afghanistan were forcefully taken and added to Pakistan. Resentment doesn't just come from thin air. If they really are, which I'm sure some are, calling themselves the superior race well they're wrong but let's not generalize and say all are like that because I know plenty of Afghans that love Pakistanis. You claim that they're a "stain" but yet you claim that they're arrogant for calling themselves the superior race. That is highly hypocritical of you to say the least.

Let's not forget that Pakistan is one of the most corrupt nations on earth and is a slave to the US and England. Afghans wouldn't see Pakistan in such a negative light if they kept to themselves and weren't sending in foreign agents into Afghanistan and causing mischief.

You also state that all they know is violence but yet don't mention that they have been at war for 40 years because people won't stop trying to invade them on false pretenses. Of course, they're violent they have to be if they want to keep their country from being some colony of the US or England like how Pakistan and India are. That's the one thing I can admire about the Afghan people. They don't want to be slaves to no one except God.

As far as hadith is concered Mahdi isn't from afghanistan and khorasan includes area from bit of china, afghanistan, pakistan, india, bangladesh etc.
Mahdi is from the tribe of Quraish and will be from Saudi arabia considering that upon finding out his role he will try to hide in kaabah to save himself from death and the responsibility. The first army however will be of Khorasan who will fight against the Princes in the civil war.

I never claimed Mahdi to be from Afghanistan. Khorasan in its proper sense is comprised mainly of Afghanistan, Iran, Turkeministan, and Uzbekistan but mainly from Afghanistan. During pre-Islamic and Islamic times Khorasan mainly comprised Afghanistan and Iran. And out of those 4 countries logic dictates that Mahdi's first army will be from Afghanistan, hence why all the SATANIC POWERS of the world have been trying to conquer Afghanistan and why America is trying so desperately to hold onto it as best they can.

 

[manama]

It doesn't quite make sense that they would hate Pakistan but yet live in it when you don't take into account the fact that parts of Afghanistan were forcefully taken and added to Pakistan. Resentment doesn't just come from thin air. If they really are, which I'm sure some are, calling themselves the superior race well they're wrong but let's not generalize and say all are like that because I know plenty of Afghans that love Pakistanis. You claim that they're a "stain" but yet you claim that they're arrogant for calling themselves the superior race. That is highly hypocritical of you to say the least.

Let's not forget that Pakistan is one of the most corrupt nations on earth and is a slave to the US and England. Afghans wouldn't see Pakistan in such a negative light if they kept to themselves and weren't sending in foreign agents into Afghanistan and causing mischief.

You also state that all they know is violence but yet don't mention that they have been at war for 40 years because people won't stop trying to invade them on false pretenses. Of course, they're violent they have to be if they want to keep their country from being some colony of the US or England like how Pakistan and India are. That's the one thing I can admire about the Afghan people. They don't want to be slaves to no one except God.



I never claimed Mahdi to be from Afghanistan. Khorasan in its proper sense is comprised mainly of Afghanistan, Iran, Turkeministan, and Uzbekistan but mainly from Afghanistan. During pre-Islamic and Islamic times Khorasan mainly comprised Afghanistan and Iran. And out of those 4 countries logic dictates that Mahdi's first army will be from Afghanistan, hence why all the SATANIC POWERS of the world have been trying to conquer Afghanistan and why America is trying so desperately to hold onto it as best they can.

"It doesn't quite make sense that they would hate Pakistan but yet live in it "

If you actually lived here youd know that we have enough to deal with hating from these cancerous people who live in our land and look down upon us, hate us and celebrate terrorists attacks

I honestly don't care about afghanistan, its people can go die. They took 200 of our kids to sell to slavery because we asked for refugees to go back or actually do something for the country except eating and breeding.
I absolutely despise them and i don't care what reasoning you come up with saying "not all of them", its a failed nation with failed people, we don't want them here period.

*Of course, they're violent they have to be if they want to keep their country from being some colony of the US or England like how Pakistan and India are. That's the one thing I can admire about the Afghan people. They don't want to be slaves to no one except God.*

Can you not? if protecting their nation means lynching our people for blasphemy excuses, hating us, celebrating terrorist attacks, doing nothing more than eating and breeding, doing nothing to build their nation back, raping our women to the point I myself am afraid of going out at night because of their numbers in the area i live in, they roam around with guns and shoot anyone because of a small argument, and ofcourse kidnap 200 kids for slavery and that doesnt include the smuggling going on year round. Oh and yes, threatening my school and college along with many others saying that they will slaughter everyone if we don't cover up. Fuck them. If they don't want to be slave to US like india and pakistan, by all means they can fuck off to afghanistan.

*hence why all the SATANIC POWERS of the world have been trying to conquer Afghanistan and why America is trying so desperately to hold onto it as best they can*

Its already a hell, the people use islam to kill, slaughter and r*pe. Satan doesn't even need to do anything, those people are worse than satan

 

[mecca]

I absolutely despise them and i don't care what reasoning you come up with saying "not all of them", its a failed nation with failed people, we don't want them here period.

Not all of them though. What about the children?

 

[manama]

Not all of them though. What about the children?

i hate kids in general

also whats the point when the boys will be shooting people in early teenage years while the girls will be married. Call me racist, i hate em.

 

[mecca]

Call me racist, i hate em.

That's racist.

 

[Kung Fu]

"It doesn't quite make sense that they would hate Pakistan but yet live in it "

If you actually lived here youd know that we have enough to deal with hating from these cancerous people who live in our land and look down upon us, hate us and celebrate terrorists attacks

I honestly don't care about afghanistan, its people can go die. They took 200 of our kids to sell to slavery because we asked for refugees to go back or actually do something for the country except eating and breeding.
I absolutely despise them and i don't care what reasoning you come up with saying "not all of them", its a failed nation with failed people, we don't want them here period.

*Of course, they're violent they have to be if they want to keep their country from being some colony of the US or England like how Pakistan and India are. That's the one thing I can admire about the Afghan people. They don't want to be slaves to no one except God.*

Can you not? if protecting their nation means lynching our people for blasphemy excuses, hating us, celebrating terrorist attacks, doing nothing more than eating and breeding, doing nothing to build their nation back, raping our women to the point I myself am afraid of going out at night because of their numbers in the area i live in, they roam around with guns and shoot anyone because of a small argument, and ofcourse kidnap 200 kids for slavery and that doesnt include the smuggling going on year round. Oh and yes, threatening my school and college along with many others saying that they will slaughter everyone if we don't cover up. Fuck them. If they don't want to be slave to US like india and pakistan, by all means they can fuck off to afghanistan.

*hence why all the SATANIC POWERS of the world have been trying to conquer Afghanistan and why America is trying so desperately to hold onto it as best they can*

Its already a hell, the people use islam to kill, slaughter and r*pe. Satan doesn't even need to do anything, those people are worse than satan

Looks like any logical and rational discussion cannot be had here.

Anyways good luck with your racist hating goals of 2017.

 

[manama]

Looks like any logical and rational discussion cannot be had here.

Anyways good luck with your racist hating goals of 2017.

When you fear going out, when you see people cry because children in your neighborhood are missing, when you hear that one born woman has been burnt alive for refusing a marriage proposal and then you get a marriage proposal at the age of 14, when you see fear because blood covered coffins have been sent to your school with rotting human flesh in them and with the warning that if any female student doesn't cover they will slaughter everyone. And then you hear that the flesh in those coffins was taken from the students killed in Peshawar army public school attack.
Maybe you just become numb to "rational discussions".


Also i do not need to engage in a rational discussion for such pathetic people.

 

[mecca]

When you fear going out, when you see people cry because children in your neighborhood are missing, when you hear that one born woman has been burnt alive for refusing a marriage proposal and then you get a marriage proposal at the age of 14, when you see fear because blood covered coffins have been sent to your school with rotting human flesh in them and with the warning that if any female student doesn't cover they will slaughter everyone. And then you hear that the flesh in those coffins was taken from the students killed in Peshawar army public school attack.
Maybe you just become numb to "rational discussions".


Also i do not need to engage in a rational discussion for such pathetic people.

That's obviously terrible but that's not an excuse for racism.

 

[Kung Fu]

That's obviously terrible but that's not an excuse for racism.

When you deal with emotions you rarely get logical responses. Within Pakistan, these Afghans who are "stains" are the least of that country's problem. Pakistan is run by a corrupt military, poverty struck, a colony to the West, and much more. They have huge human rights violations, sectarian and tribal conflict, and etc. and they're not even at war with any foreign country but yet she calls a whole nation of people backwards and barbaric who have been at war for over 40 years and trying to be used as some pawn by nearly every regional power in the area and Western powers alike.

 

[mecca]

Pakistan is run by a corrupt military, poverty struck, a colony to the West, and much more. They have huge human rights violations, sectarian and tribal conflict, and etc. and they're not even at war with any foreign country but yet she calls a whole nation of people backwards and barbaric who have been at war for over 40 years and trying to be used as some pawn by nearly every regional power in the area and Western powers alike.

True.