Thoughts On The Original Quranic View Of Women

[mecca]

Her testimony doesn't matter?

What do you mean?

 

[Plasticity]

She is angry because of an injustice. That is a legitimate reason to be angry. Being angry is a healthy response. You know it would be very easy to hear her say something like this and just say something like I am sorry for your experience and just let it go instead of using it as a reason to harass someone. She has the right to be angry with something like this.

I'm sorry but this line of reasoning is simply false. Hitler, Lenin, and other brutal dictators blamed certain groups of people for injustices that happened to them during their lifetimes and look how that turned out. Just because they claimed to have injustices happen to them by a certain race doesn't all of a sudden make it okay in terms of what they said and did.

I would be very afraid if she held any kind of political and or military authority.

We also have no way in verifying if any of this actually happened to her but what we do have are bigoted and hateful responses that should be condemned.

 

[rainerann]

She has a right to be angry, it makes sense that she is angry. What is unjustified is saying all afghans can go die just because some of them are bad. That's racist.

If she has the right to be angry, then there has to be a way to create a better solution and discussion of the subject that doesn't include making the same generalization in reverse that she is racist.

What would be a better way to change the dialog when you see someone making comments like this? Does calling someone racist when you alternately agree they have a legitimate reason to be angry, help produce the results that we would like to see? What is the response to this you would like to see her make after being called a racist?

I will say that I think there is a better way to address a comment like this when there is a legitimate reason to be angry than to call someone racist. It would be better to just not use the word racist because it is offensive. It would be better to just make the statement without using the word that experiencing something like this does not justify making such a broad generalization. This way we don't counter something we find offensive with something that will make the other person feel offended as well.

Therefore, it is better to just not use the word racist and continue to disagree with the generalization that is made, which is your right. However, the legitimacy of her right to be angry should cause us to be sensitive enough to avoid using this word in response to what she has said.

 

[Kung Fu]

It would be racist if I said it because I am American and this has nothing to do with me. However, she is Pakistani. That is her country where she lives with the effects of what she is talking about. So she has the right to be angry. Being angry doesn't mean that a person will always be angry either. So I think the whole thing is a little blown out of proportion.

LOL!

 

[Kung Fu]

I will say that I think there is a better way to address a comment like this when there is a legitimate reason to be angry than to call someone racist. It would be better to just not use the word racist because it is offensive. It would be better to just make the statement without using the word that experiencing something like this does not justify making such a broad generalization. This way we don't counter something we find offensive with something that will make the other person feel offended as well.

Therefore, it is better to just not use the word racist and continue to disagree with the generalization that is made, which is your right. However, the legitimacy of her right to be angry should cause us to be sensitive enough to avoid using this word in response to what she has said.

I can't believe I'm reading what I'm reading. This is just getting beyond absurd now.

 

[mecca]

If she has the right to be angry, then there has to be a way to create a better solution and discussion of the subject that doesn't include making the same generalization in reverse that she is racist.

What would be a better way to change the dialog when you see someone making comments like this? Does calling someone racist when you alternately agree they have a legitimate reason to be angry, help produce the results that we would like to see? What is the response to this you would like to see her make after being called a racist?

She has to realize her thinking is wrong and racism isn't the correct way to react to her anger.

 

[mecca]

It would be better to just not use the word racist because it is offensive.

But she made racist statements and she should know that it's not okay.

 

[manama]

That's obviously terrible but that's not an excuse for racism.

i wouldn't be too "racist" if i had atleast one reason to not be other than "not all of them"

obviously not all of them are bad, too bad you don't see the good ones doing anything.

 

[manama]

When you deal with emotions you rarely get logical responses. Within Pakistan, these Afghans who are "stains" are the least of that country's problem. Pakistan is run by a corrupt military, poverty struck, a colony to the West, and much more. They have huge human rights violations, sectarian and tribal conflict, and etc. and they're not even at war with any foreign country but yet she calls a whole nation of people backwards and barbaric who have been at war for over 40 years and trying to be used as some pawn by nearly every regional power in the area and Western powers alike.

*"stains" are the least of that country's problem*

Yea because murder, r*pe, forced marriages, not allowing women to get education, forcing Islam down people's throats, lynching etc obviously are "small problems" smh

*Pakistan is run by a corrupt military*

We don't call our military corrupt, we love our army but most call them cowards when they decided to negotiate with afghanistan because of border conflict, had they not been cowards they would have made it clear "this is our border, these are our people, you pass through here and you hurt these people you get shot on the spot"

*poverty struck*

Which country isn't?

*They have huge human rights violations*

We give full rights to even transgender people, homosexuality is illegal and yet there are open gay bars and nobody ever harms them =, the law is in place more to shut up old weird clerics. What rights are people missing except child labour? You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved. Annnnd guess which areas have the highest rate of child labor?? and who are the people/race who refuse education etc??

"sectarian and tribal conflict"

Aww and guess who is in the midst of it?

"they're not even at war with any foreign country but yet she calls a whole nation of people backwards and barbaric who have been at war for over 40 years and trying to be used as some pawn by nearly every regional power in the area and Western powers alike."

I'm pretty sure youre not dumb so let me make this clear, i have nothing against the brave afghanis who are in their own country and are fighting for it. The problem i have, is with the cowards who ran to shelter in our place and are dead set on ruining it. By all means if they are so brave and superior race who doesn't want to be slaves. By all means they can go back to their own country and fight there and build it there except shooting even random shopkeepers for not bargaining for the price or killing people because of parking spots etc.

 

[manama]

I truly and honestly am quite sad that there are people on this thread that are actually defending Manama's racist comments. She specifically stated that Afghans are "stains, cancerous people, and that they can all die" not to mention that all their descendents are also barbarians.

Using the excuse that she is young doesn't cut it. She's old enough to know that what she just said is wrong and a breach of forum rules.

i mentioned the reasons, dont act so whiny and their lawyer

 

[manama]

But it's illogical to be angry at everyone when only a portion committed the act.

Maybe deep down she doesn't hate all of them but the statement that she does, is racist.

The other innocent ones dont condemn the crimes either.

And i'm sorry but i not western enough where a single statement makes people shout "Racist" "sexist" "phobic", thats not really a thing here or maybe we arent as sensitive.
As far as everything else goes i don't hate them for their skin lmao again not western enough.

If people defending them could actually give me a reason to not be so "Racist" ill happily accept it, too bad there aint any reason.
Considering how many afghan refugees have been living here, how many have you or anyone seen pursue higher education? Because i saw them killing children for attending school. How many women did you even see reach college? because the ones i knew from school are now married to old men and have children and thats life.
Considering they have been living here for decades, what good have you seen them do for the country or community? i haven't seen any. How many have you seen that have done even drop of something for their own country? I haven't seen them even caring about their own country.
and much more.

 

[manama]

You know shouting "Racist", "bigots" etc isn't really the way to go if you CAN'T provide me of a reason to not hate them other than "not all of them".
Thats no different from black people (i apologize in advance but i got to say this) shouting racist at people who criticize them, thats not to say there isn't real racism but im talking about criticism. There are black people who would give you legit reasons but then there is a group who'd cry the loudest but then you realize their reasons are so petty like "a woman cut me in line, she thought its okay to cut in line because i am black"/
And then confrontation goes about the poverty levels, less kids going to higher education, crime rates, single motherhood rates etc and they got nothing to say. This makes the first group look bad so unless you have strong reasons don't go shouting "Racist" like a parrot.


As far as afghani people are concerned, its funny because the "defendants" may have but most likely havent seen the fear of not being able to go outside because of fear of gangraped. Parents covering up their daughters just so someone doesn't see them and sends a marriage proposal because then there is either death or forced marriage. When me and my friends had to wear hijab for a while until the army can set up security we didn't wear hijab for the love of God, we didn't wear hijab because of "modesty", we wore it so they wont r*pe us and then kill us or burn us down with the school like they did to others. Women and Men crying on the streets shouting and screaming because the 18th kid has been kidnapped.
When you can't even speak up about your own religion Islam because even if you are correct someone will attack you, beat you up and leave you to die calling out your prophet's name and your own God's name, and you realize you are being murdered in the name of the one you love an worship. Oh and yes be ready to say "yes" to everything or they might kill you of an argument. When again you hear a village has been attacked and you see these people celebrating. and the list goes on.


Unless you have experienced it all first hand, don't go shouting "Racist". I'm glad most arabs and south asians are so cowards who shout "racist" and "bigots" to every damn personal experience and critiques. Come up with either logic and tell me why anything i said isn't correct other than me "being emotional" HELL YES im emotional i love my land, i love my people, i love my religion. but my emotions don't cloud my judgement if they had i would have said something along the lines of

Its okay we are brothers in islam
Maybe not all of them are bad, there are good people too

Just nope, either they mend their ways or they can go do whatever they want in some other country, we gave them refuge to protect them from war, not to make every parent of our or every child fight a war with fear of r*pe, murder, slaughter. You haven't experienced it. you aren't from here, you got no right to tell us to endure it or even speak about it but if you do give logical reasoning other than "you are racist" yea because me being less racist doesn't solve the issues, the hatred almost everyone here has.
If one out of 100 people is discriminatory, it explains that they are bigot, but if 90+ out of 100 people are and the ones who are not have no reasons more than "not all of them", "they are our brothers in Islam", "we should help those in need because Islam". you know there are real issues.

The more emotional ones here are the ones shouting "racist". Brah there is something called reasons either give that or don't make a fool out of yourself

 

[grateful servant]

Peace. This would be a good addition to the Quran and Sunnah thread but seeing that it relates to the title and topic of this thread I thought I would post it here. May God give us all guidance to the Straight Path and His Paradise/Heaven. Amen.

O believing men and women, lower your gazes.

Download Khutbah

In this Khutbah:
- The blessing of two eyes
- Why Allaah called them Kareemah and Habeebah
- The obligation to show Shukr to Allaah, and lower ones gaze
- How the eyes are a divine miracle
- The relationship between the eyes and the heart
- The steps by which Shaytaan entices a person towards Zinaa (adultery)
- Practical ways to control ones sight and lower the gaze

 

[True World Order]

 

[Lady]

Here is an article that may help to explain some of the issues of Muslim women in Islam, as well as a hopeful trend toward a more just life for those who are heavily persecuted in their Islamic societies. This all may be due to inaccurate interpretations and philosophizing of the Quran.
(Excerpt)
From the moment the first revelation—“Read!”—came down to the Prophet, Islam was established as a faith of the word. The good Muslim must read the sources. But with a text as intricate and powerful as the Koran, reading meant far more than mere literacy.

Across the world, Muslim progressives in places as disparate as Jakarta and Virginia have read 4:34 anew, chiselling off the man-made prejudices that have hardened into Truth over centuries.

Pakistani schoolgirls are defying Taliban edicts in their quest for education. African activists are demanding that local mullahs point to where, exactly, the Koran advocates female genital mutilation. Meanwhile, Malaysian campaigners travel to small-town mosques and schools, handing out pamphlets with bright red covers asking, “Are Men and Women Equal Before Allah?”

http://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/projects/koran-carla-power/

 

[Lady]

For an encouraging few minutes, here is a video of some women determined to change the status quo in Afghanistan.

 

[manama]

Here is an article that may help to explain some of the issues of Muslim women in Islam, as well as a hopeful trend toward a more just life for those who are heavily persecuted in their Islamic societies. This all may be due to inaccurate interpretations and philosophizing of the Quran.
(Excerpt)
From the moment the first revelation—“Read!”—came down to the Prophet, Islam was established as a faith of the word. The good Muslim must read the sources. But with a text as intricate and powerful as the Koran, reading meant far more than mere literacy.

Across the world, Muslim progressives in places as disparate as Jakarta and Virginia have read 4:34 anew, chiselling off the man-made prejudices that have hardened into Truth over centuries.

Pakistani schoolgirls are defying Taliban edicts in their quest for education. African activists are demanding that local mullahs point to where, exactly, the Koran advocates female genital mutilation. Meanwhile, Malaysian campaigners travel to small-town mosques and schools, handing out pamphlets with bright red covers asking, “Are Men and Women Equal Before Allah?”

http://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/projects/koran-carla-power/

aw i don't like how the author shows ignorance about Aisha a.s. She was one of the first islamic scholars, the best narrator of hadith, and she fought in wars. :/
She said that she felt jealous with how much prophet loved his first wife even after her death even then She was the one who told us about prophet's first wife. Everything we know about Khadija a.s is from Aisha a.s since prophet often talked with her about his first wife. She didn't let her jealousy come inbetween her honesty and truthfulness.

Many people hate Aisha a.s, calling her names because she fought in battles, used to debate with prophet and was a scholar. They call her unislamic LOL But the more you read about her, the more you realize she was the best of women

 

[Kung Fu]

Many people hate Aisha a.s, calling her names because she fought in battles, used to debate with prophet and was a scholar. They call her unislamic LOL But the more you read about her, the more you realize she was the best of women

I'm guessing you're referring to Shias?

 

[manama]

I'm guessing you're referring to Shias?

haven't seen anyone else hating her.

 

[Kung Fu]

haven't seen anyone else hating her.

I was just curious.