"The way home or catch the fire" compared to bible/ other religions (part 6)

[JoChris]

In conversation format this time, Anthony John Hill shows he believes Earth really is Hell.

Please keep these bible passages in mind as you read the words in green from now on:

Genesis 1
Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Romans 1
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

The bible declares God's creation is GOOD.

Library Genesis: Gerald L. Schroeder - The Hidden Face of God: How Science Reveals the Ultimate Truth

Library Genesis is a scientific community targeting collection of books on natural science disciplines and engineering.

libgen.rs

 

[JoChris]

I will not address TWHOFTF's anti-priest claims below or if the passages are in context in this entry. [spacing added between sentences]

As I read it, I wondered if AJH would say Jesus Himself was evil if Jesus did enjoy life on Earth at times....

11:41 Some of you, say that you do not think that this planet is Hell, or a prison, and that you actually LIKE it here.

11:42 ONLY someone who IS evil can feel at home in Hell, and like being here, with all these bad people (John 12:25)(Sura 16:106-111).

11:43 The priests have helped Satan, by maintaining and feeding your egos, and their own; teaching that Planet Earth is a good place, and that you are all good, and all sinners at the same time. What a ludicrous contradiction, and how STUPID. How can you be good, if you are a sinner? You use the word sinner, because the word bad offends your ego, but they both mean the same.

11:44 This stupidity has prevented you all from being humble enough, to REALLY ask for, and receive, God’s guidance, and has helped to keep you here, all this time.

11:45 What is absolutely astounding, is that you actually believe that you are good, and that what happens on this planet is NORMAL.

Do you actually believe, that all this evil; cruelty; selfishness; murder; r*pe; theft; child-molesting; etc., could happen on a NORMAL civilized planet? It could not happen anywhere else but in Hell, which is exactly where you all are, and where all this evil happens.

You don’t know the meaning of the words, civilized, and good (Isaiah 64:6), and that is one of the reasons why you are still here.

 

[JoChris]

This snippet alone proves that the JAHtruth religion is totally anti-Christian, totally anti-Gospel. It is so sad to think that several self-proclaimed ex-Christians rejected the real Gospel in favour of this fearmonger's propaganda instead.


11:46 If you are like Jesus (genuinely), in your present human-life, and your body dies, THEN you will go to heaven. ANYTHING less will NOT make the grade, and you will return to Hell (Earth), in your next body, continually, until you get it right, or run out of time, and then burn in “The Fire”, on the Last-Day (Acts 2:31-34).

Even though the verses were deliberately out-of-context as usual, that was a weird passage to proof-text from! Apostle Peter gives the Gospel to the Jerusalem Jews!

29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

11:47 You are ALL bad, or you would not be here, in prison. God does not keep good people in prison. Be humble and LEARN to be good.

Then Anthony John Hill and whoever believes in AJH are be damned. They are in prison right now, according to JAHtruth.
if they had been good, they wouldn't be here.

---
People, please reject this false "Jesus" and believe the real Gospel.

What is the Romans Road to salvation? | GotQuestions.org

What is the Romans Road to salvation? What are the Scripture verses on the Romans Road to salvation?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[JoChris]

Here TWHOFTF repeats AJH's "telepathy with God" teaching and the general anti-RCC/ church position again.

11:48 With organized-religions in between, like a wall, you will NEVER get to have a personal relationship with God, and get to KNOW and love Him, as the wonderful and loving person that He is, and also be able to feel His love surrounding you, and protecting you from evil.

11:49 You do not need synagogues/churches/mosques, etc.; every human+being is a church. Churches (buildings) were only built, as a place of shelter, from the sun, or the rain, etc., or from screaming children, so that you could go, and be at peace, and be able to concentrate on talking to God, and on listening for His telepathic reply.

11:50 Just look at them now, with locks on the doors, and full of idols and gold, etc. If the church is REALLY God’s House, WHO has the RIGHT to lock the door, and say that you can not go in, except for one hour, on a certain day?

11:51 You HAVE TO talk to God telepathically, ALL the time, wherever you are, and YOUR church (you) should be open to Him 24 hours a day.

11:52 If someone feels that they need a church-building, to talk to God, and they are distressed in the middle of the night, in the middle of the week; who has the right to lock them out? NO-ONE; that is who.

11:53 The silly priests say that people will steal their silly idols, and worldly treasures, if they don’t lock the doors.

11:54 There should be absolutely nothing in a church worth stealing, and, if there is, it should be sold, and the money given to the poor, or used, to heat the church, in cold climates, so that a church feels warm and welcoming, just like God. Instead of which, they feel cold, uncomfortable and forbidding, like Satan. God is the God of the living; not of the dead.

11:55 Catholic churches are full of idols, and graven-images, teaching the breaking of the COMMANDMENTS:- You shall NOT make a graven-image, of ANYTHING in heaven or on Earth, or under the sea. You shall not worship idols and graven-images.

The one thing I will add here: it was written in 1986. Perhaps in that era churches didn't have to worry about vandalism/ terrorism attacks/ evil rituals potentially being done in church buildings.
In 2023 it sounds incredibly naive to think that the worst thing people would ever do is "steal stuff" that are idols anyway (according to AJH).

 

[JoChris]

There is a lot said in a short sentence below. Reminder: blue for doctrinal claims, green for first-person communication.

11:56 They [RCC] also have statues of Mary’s body, and BLASPHEME, by saying that she is “the holy mother of God”.

That is very strongly worded AJH style but he is sort of correct. The Roman Catholic Church took honouring of Mary the mother of JESUS way too far when they developed the doctrine she was also the mother of God.
They are remembering her PERSON, not her body though.

Christ himself, said that Mary was NOT his mother (Matt. 12:47-50 & Mark 3:31- 35 & Luke 8:19-21).
The three links refer to the same incident. Matthew gave the most detail.

Matthew 12:46 While he [Jesus] yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Jesus did NOT say words that suggested Mary was not His mother anywhere.
The simple phrase search "Mary mother" gives 11 results applying to her only.
The keyword search "Mary" gives results that mostly refer to her.

That is blatantly false. English is Anthony John Hill's first language, therefore he had no excuse to misinterpret what Jesus was actually saying at that time.

Mary was no-one special (Luke 11:27-28), except that she was a good mother, and had good qualities, that God wanted Jesus to learn, to help prepare him for His work.
Read the verses.

Luke 11: 27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
28 But he [Jesus] said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Again, AJH added his interpretation that totally distorted what Jesus actually said.
His self-made religion has over-corrected from the excessively Mary-honouring Roman Catholic Church to a dismissing Mary religion instead.

 

[JoChris]

11:57 The Roman Catholics also bow down to graven-images of the “son of Mary”, which was only a human-animal that I used, and was NOT me, and worship it as God.
Too right it wasn't you! You were born in Sheffield UK 1948, not approximately 4 BC.

Jesus himself said that people MUST NOT worship him, but JUST worship ONLY GOD (Matt. 19:16-17 & Mark 10:17-18).
Here I will just give the bible links, as TWHOFTF just repeated what AJH has said multiple times before and I have already addressed those verses e.g. https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-way-home-or-catch-the-fire-compared-to-bible-other-religions-part-6.10977/page-10#post-567743

How can you all be so dis-obedient, and stupid, when you are ALL under the death-sentence, and your time is running-out (John 3:18 & 5:24)?
The actual verses now: non JAHtruthers will see that Jesus sounds nothing like JAH"truth".

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 5: 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

[The Sojourner]

the mother of God

What a ridiculous and blasphemous doctrine and thing for people to say.
That should have been the end of so-called "christianity" right there, for anyone who has any ability to think straight.
The moment you realise that any so-called trinity doctrine being true, is impossible.

But, in christianity, salvation depends on not being able to see this, so people don't.

 

[JoChris]

What a ridiculous and blasphemous doctrine and thing for people to say.
That should have been the end of so-called christianity right there, for anyone who has any ability to think straight.

The ROMAN CATHOLIC church developed that Mariolatry after the bible was finished. A properly translated bible does not say that.
No bible-believing Christian/ church teaches Mary is the mother of GOD.

What is Mariolatry - Got questions

Mariolatry is defined as “excessive veneration or worship of Mary, the mother of Jesus.” The word literally means “Mary-worship.” Protestants often accuse Catholics of Mariolatry, and Catholics deny the charge, insisting that they venerate Mary but stop short of giving her divine worship. The official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church is that God alone deserves “adoration,” also called latria; however, saints are worthy of a lesser honor called “veneration” or dulia. Catholic doctrine goes on to say that God has exalted the Virgin Mary above all other saints, and she should thus receive the highest form of dulia, called hyperdulia. But, Catholics are careful to say, hyperdulia is inferior to latria. Catholics claim that, since they do not give Mary the adoration that only the Creator can receive, they are not guilty of Mariolatry. The Eastern Orthodox Church also venerates Mary as the foremost saint, calling her the “Most Holy Virgin Mary,” singing hymns to her, praying to her, and kissing her icon.

 

[The Sojourner]

The ROMAN CATHOLIC church developed that Mariolatry after the bible was finished. A properly translated bible does not say that.
No bible-believing Christian/ church teaches Mary is the mother of GOD.

What is Mariolatry - Got questions

Mariolatry is defined as “excessive veneration or worship of Mary, the mother of Jesus.” The word literally means “Mary-worship.” Protestants often accuse Catholics of Mariolatry, and Catholics deny the charge, insisting that they venerate Mary but stop short of giving her divine worship. The official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church is that God alone deserves “adoration,” also called latria; however, saints are worthy of a lesser honor called “veneration” or dulia. Catholic doctrine goes on to say that God has exalted the Virgin Mary above all other saints, and she should thus receive the highest form of dulia, called hyperdulia. But, Catholics are careful to say, hyperdulia is inferior to latria. Catholics claim that, since they do not give Mary the adoration that only the Creator can receive, they are not guilty of Mariolatry. The Eastern Orthodox Church also venerates Mary as the foremost saint, calling her the “Most Holy Virgin Mary,” singing hymns to her, praying to her, and kissing her icon.

But they teach that Jesus is God.
Was Mary not the mother of Jesus, then?
See it?

 

[JoChris]

But they teach that Jesus is God.
Was Mary not the mother of Jesus, then?
See it?

I already gave my point above. Unlike JAHtruthers I don't feel the need to go over the same topic... again... and again.... imagining that repeating yourself makes the JAH-lie true.

The truth only needs to be said once. A truth-lover knows what I am saying.

 

[The Sojourner]

I already gave my point above. Unlike JAHtruthers I don't feel the need to go over the same topic... again... and again.... imaging that repeating yourself makes the JAH-lie true.

The truth only needs to be said once. A truth-lover knows what I am saying.

But if Jesus really is God, like Christians teach, then why is Catholic Church wrong when they call Mary that?

Warning: really thinking about this and not accepting the inevitable truth of it, will induce a state of cognitive dissonance.

Cognitive Dissonance In Psychology: Definition and Examples

Cognitive dissonance theory, proposed by Leon Festinger, posits that individuals experience discomfort when holding conflicting beliefs or attitudes. This discomfort motivates them to reduce the inconsistency.

www.simplypsychology.org

Cognitive dissonance refers to a situation involving conflicting attitudes, beliefs, or behaviors.

This produces a feeling of mental discomfort leading to an alteration in one of the attitudes, beliefs, or behaviors to reduce the discomfort and restore balance.

Cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort that results from holding two conflicting beliefs, values, or attitudes. People tend to seek consistency in their attitudes and perceptions, so this conflict causes unpleasant feelings of unease or discomfort.

Cognitive Dissonance and Ways to Resolve It

Cognitive dissonance happens when people hold conflicting beliefs. Learn the effects cognitive dissonance can have and how it can be resolved.

www.verywellmind.com

 

[JoChris]

The next snippet of TWHOFTF is long but self-explanatory. I won't address the usual anti-church/ organised religion comments. I have just given the links for readers to compare TWHOFTF with the Bible/ Quran.

11:58 All the Prophets have spoken directly to God, and have done His Will, and have been against religions, and have lived apart with God.

11:59 This does not mean living in a monastery, or commune, it just means getting away from religions. Hiding from temptation, in a monastery, will do you no good, because you have to face temptation, and overcome it (to win favour with God, by facing temptation and overcoming it - James 1:2-4.

You are, thereby, also setting a good example, to others, and can help the weaker ones to overcome their temptations, by giving them moral [spiritual] support - Sura 57:27).

11:60 Hiding in a commune, or monastery, is the cowards’ way out, but they are only cheating themselves, because the more temptation you overcome, the nearer you get to going home (James 1:2-4).

11:61 Avoiding temptation is wasting what precious little time you have left, and is like running-onthe-spot, on a conveyor-belt rolling towards The Fire, where you are going nowhere fast, except The Fire.

11:62 These communes only create fear, and do more harm than good, for the former reason, and the following ones.
11:63 The bigger they become, the greater the number of people that are wasting their time, and, because people without faith always fear what they do not understand, public-opinion is set against them. If they become really big, the people outside get frightened, and eventually they will attack it. Religious wars start in the same way (John 16:2).

I thought it was more interesting than most of chapter 11 because I had started to wonder if JAHtruth would like people to actually physically separate from the world e.g. endorse a commune for JAHtruthers like other extreme cults often do.
After all he continually tells readers that we need to separate from the church and only be with (assuming his) God.

 

[The Sojourner]

No bible-believing Christian/ church teaches Mary is the mother of GOD.

How can they teach that Jesus is God, yet at the same time teach that Mary is NOT the mother of God?

Mary was the mother of Jesus.

So, if Jesus is God...

then

Mary = the mother of God (?)


No, because, we all KNOW that this cannot be.
In other words, it's nonsense!
There is a mistake.

2 + 2 = 5?

-----

A is the mother of B.

So, if B is C...

then

A = the mother of C (?)

-----

No. Because, God does not have a mother.
To teach that Mary is to be called that, is BLASPHEMY.

So with some simple mathematics, we have proved that the Koran (and the Bible) are BOTH correct:

Sura
5:75. They do blaspheme who say: "("I AM") is Jesus the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! Worship God, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with God,- "I AM" will forbid him The Garden, and The Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.
5:76. They do blaspheme who say: "("I AM") is one of three in a Trinity": for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous Penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

 

[JoChris]

If a person can ignore the emotive language, some of 11:64-67 sounds reasonable to undiscerning people.

Reminder: the promises and directions from the bible verses linked in TWHOFTF are applicable for those who believe in the God of the Bible and are therefore born again.
The bible's spiritual promises are NOT for those who are spiritually dead and follow a false Christ. e.g. a self-proclaimed reborn Jesus in a new body, born in Sheffield UK1948.

JAHtruthers cannot agree with the following passage, or they would stop being JAHtruthers and become born-again Christians.



Please read the bible chapter links below to see the full context.

11:64 These people should go home, to teach their families, and fight for God. Jesus said that he came, not to bring peace, but a sword (the Word of Truth - Heb. 4:12),
It says the Word of GOD. AJH deliberately replaced GOD with truth.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

and that a man’s enemies would be the members of his own household (Luke 12:51-53).
Overgeneralisations e.g. exactly WHY are the people the believer's enemies....

This is because they will be used by Satan, to try to pull you away from your belief (Micah 7:6). If they don’t, then you are not doing it right, because Jesus has told you, it WILL happen, IF you ARE doing it right (Matthew 10:34-40).

11:65 Don’t run away and HIDE in communes. Get on home, and fight to convince the people that love you, that they are wrong (love your enemies).

Love your enemies does not mean attempt to convert them to JAH"truth". Matthew 5:43-48

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

11:66 Fight with the Sword of Truth, not your fists. Truth and Light conquer all darkness and evil. Light destroys darkness painlessly, and easily, and so does the Light of Truth, when combined and delivered with love.

11:67 Stop being such cowards! Put on God’s Armour (Ephesians 6:11-19), and show people The Way. You once fought against God, and that got you sent here. The only way out, is to fight the Devil, to PROVE to God that you have changed sides, and are fit to come home.

Translation:
You will be persecuted from agents of Satan because you are trying to lead them to JAH"truth".
Your family members who say they will not believe in JAHtruth are your enemies.
You know you are fighting for God if people say "no, this is ridiculous... look at all the facts... look at how this man distorts scripture/ Quran and denies reality...."

 

[JoChris]

How can they teach that Jesus is God, yet at the same time teach that Mary is NOT the mother of God?

Mary was the mother of Jesus.

So, if Jesus is God

then

Mary = the mother of God.


But, we all KNOW that this cannot possibly be!
In other words, it's nonsense!
There has to be a mistake somewhere.

2 + 2 = 5?

-----

A is the mother of B.

So, if B is C

then

A = the mother of C

I would recommend normally that you start your own thread on the out-of-context topic you are trying to introduce [this thread is about your cult's "holy" book, not the RCC's doctrines] but people now know that you are a determined JAHtruther, they won't waste their time on your threads, will they?

Quite simply, I am trying to get through chapter 11 because it hopefully is the last one where AJH "shows the truth" about Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Hopefully the next chapters will be more interesting, because at first glance it looks like ONLY AJH's own belief system is being presented there.

P.S. Yes I know these threads have been low traffic as well, and I have been very relieved about that because it has been faster as a result. I do not know how Christian apologists do this full time for a living. They must be incredibly patient people.

 

[The Sojourner]

This is (part of) why I left the church @JoChris .
No room for difficult questions, that require the use of logic to answer.
I see you are ignoring me.
That's what they would have done, too.
But, fortunately I left on my own even before it came to that.
Peace.

 

[The Sojourner]

not the RCC's doctrines

Thank you for your reply.
It is mainstream Christian doctrine, too.
It doesn't work, whichever way that you try and look at it.
Proving the Bible correct, and Christian doctrine to be wrong.
The point has been made so will leave it at that for now.

 

[JoChris]

This is why I left the church @JoChris .
No room for difficult questions, that require the use of logic to answer.
I see you are ignoring me.
That's what they would have done, too.
But, fortunately I left on my own even before it came to that.
Peace.

Please read my above response.
It is a shame that the church did not answer your questions when you actually wanted them answered.

Some Christians are happy to continue butting heads with non-Christians who are determined to defend their anti-Christianity worldview. I have reached the conclusion that is not my role. I will present factual information to the best of my ability, but if a person is determined to reject Christianity/ deny reality [e.g. dismiss objective historical facts] because it is more comfortable for them to do so, I leave them in God's hands.

There are plenty of Christian forums where people who are interested in that type of debate. You should go and do a search for them. e.g. this is a very active site. https://www.christianforums.com/

 

[The Sojourner]

Please read my above response.
It is a shame that the church did not answer your questions when you actually wanted them answered.

Some Christians are happy to continue butting heads with non-Christians who are determined to defend their anti-Christianity worldview. I have reached the conclusion that is not my role. I will present factual information to the best of my ability, but if a person is determined to deny reality because it is more comfortable for them to do so, I leave them in God's hands.

There are plenty of Christian forums where people who are interested in that type of debate. You should go and do a search for them. e.g. this is a very active site. https://www.christianforums.com/

Pretty sure I've already been there. I think it's better here. At least here, there are people with different opinions and one may discuss the Koran. Christian sites usually don't have much of that.
If I posted there what I've been allowed to post here, it would likely result in a ban.
Christian forums only allow the Christian viewpoint.
Islamic forums only allow the Islamic viewpoint.
VC is different in that it allows both to be discussed.

Saying I wanted them answered, is not really correct, because it was already being answered to my mind. But I knew they would not like the answer. So.

 

[JoChris]

Pretty sure I've already been there. I think it's better here. At least here, there are people with different opinions and one may discuss the Koran. Christian sites usually don't have much of that.
If I posted there what I've been allowed to post here, it would likely result in a ban.
Christian forums only allow the Christian viewpoint.
Islamic forums only allow the Islamic viewpoint.
VC is different in that it allows both to be discussed.

That is something you and I agree on. The size of the forum means there is next to no censorship.
I also found Christianity forums like that one got too ecumenical over the years and boring as a result.

You will just have to accept I am not the type of person who is willing to flog a dead horse where it comes to a person who has decided because if a Christian doctrine/ passage doesn't make sense to THEM, Christianity can't be true.