The TRUE BIBLICAL TRUTH; Esau will fall, Jacob will rise

[KoncreteMind]

You know, I still wish you would repent since you know all of this.

Remove the log from your eye first remember?

Deuteronomy 32
16They made him jealous with their foreign gods and angered him with their detestable idols. 17 They sacrificed to false gods, which are not God— gods they had not known, gods that recently appeared, gods your ancestors did not fear.

 

[A Freeman]

"When Israel was a child"

Past tense only. Imagine if you read the whole bible like that lol

Jeremiah 7:22
For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.

This is a prophecy too huh? Even though both verses are referring to specific events in the past we can just superimpose them to refer to events in the future? And based on what exactly? Not a thing.

Another thing though, hop off the pedestal because you really dont have one to stand on. Its like a woman who follows the commandments to the T but goes and tries to become a Levite priest and do their duties. Once she does that, all her righteousness is for nothing. What am I saying? Stop trying to play someone elses duty. Thats not yours..

What's been shared with you is the truth, from a CERTAIN point of view, and was done so for your benefit and for others who may be reading this, who may have similar questions.

If anyone is placing themselves on a pedestal here, it's YOU. You're the one claiming the OT and NT cannot be reconciled. You were first presented the fact there are over 300 prophecies in the OT about Jesus alone, all of which were fulfilled in the NT. The odds of any one man fulfilling even 8 of those prophecies out of every man that's ever lived is 1 x 10^17.

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If we were to look at just 48 of those prophecies, the statistical odds of any one man fulfilling them increases to 1 x 10^157. This is conclusive proof of not only the prophecies, but also that the OT and NT are inexorably linked. It's a statistical CERTAINTY. So even before you asked your question about Hosea 11:1, the answer had already been provided to your original question about the OT and NT.

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You then asked your question, assuming you already knew the answer, which required you to ignore the irrefutable fact that the OT and NT are not only reconcilable, but inseparable. And you based your entire argument on the erroneous assumption that "when" means something in the past, and that is allegedly proof that Hosea 11:1 isn't prophetic.

Again, the verse in question (with notes in parentheses):-

Hosea 11:1 WHEN Israel [was] a child (referencing a specific time period*), THEN I loved him (still referring to a specific time period**), AND called My son (non-specific) out of Egypt.

*Is "was" past tense? Of course it is. But everything before the first comma is a participial phrase, modifying what follows after the first comma (THEN...). Here's another example, to illustrate the point (a dad to his two sons):

WHEN you completed your homework, THEN I loved you, and called my son outside to play.

If the first son completed his homework that same day (earlier today), his dad called him outside earlier that same day to play. If the second of the two sons didn't complete his homework until the following day (tomorrow), then his dad would have called him out then, to keep the promise the dad made to both of his sons.

Hopefully you can see that nothing in the tense of the sentence above keeps the dad from fulfilling his promise to both sons and two different times.

Furthermore, we already knew this was a prophecy, because: 1) it was provided in the OT and fulfilled in both the OT and then again hundreds of years later in the NT; and 2) there are hundreds of other prophecies that Jesus fulfilled, which leave no doubt of the connection between the OT and the NT.

The only thing that keeps you from seeing something this obvious is your own arrogance, which each of us needs to destroy every day, all day long. Part of removing the beam/log from your own eye, so you can help your brother with the speck in his eye.

Peace be upon you.

 

[A Freeman]

But even the most elementary reading of the Torah will show that to be an antithesis of what the Torah says. YHWH does not take lightly to those who go out sinning on purpose, YHWH doesn't prioritize one people's righteousness over another. The role of the Jewish people as chosen to fulfill God's covenant has no baring on this fact.

Agreed about the sinning/law-breaking.

The two of you are using the term "Jewish people" as if it is interchangeable with "Israelites", when it is not. God's Covenant is with Israel (all 12 of the tribes, or 13 if you count Ephraim and Manasseh for Joseph).

 

[Yahda]

What's been shared with you is the truth, from a CERTAIN point of view, and was done so for your benefit and for others who may be reading this, who may have similar questions.

If anyone is placing themselves on a pedestal here, it's YOU. You're the one claiming the OT and NT cannot be reconciled. You were first presented the fact there are over 300 prophecies in the OT about Jesus alone, all of which were fulfilled in the NT. The odds of any one man fulfilling even 8 of those prophecies out of every man that's ever lived is 1 x 10^17.

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If we were to look at just 48 of those prophecies, the statistical odds of any one man fulfilling them increases to 1 x 10^157. This is conclusive proof of not only the prophecies, but also that the OT and NT are inexorably linked. It's a statistical CERTAINTY. So even before you asked your question about Hosea 11:1, the answer had already been provided to your original question about the OT and NT.

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You then asked your question, assuming you already knew the answer, which required you to ignore the irrefutable fact that the OT and NT are not only reconcilable, but inseparable. And you based your entire argument on the erroneous assumption that "when" means something in the past, and that is allegedly proof that Hosea 11:1 isn't prophetic.

Again, the verse in question (with notes in parentheses):-

Hosea 11:1 WHEN Israel [was] a child (referencing a specific time period*), THEN I loved him (still referring to a specific time period**), AND called My son (non-specific) out of Egypt.

*Is "was" past tense? Of course it is. But everything before the first comma is a participial phrase, modifying what follows after the first comma (THEN...). Here's another example, to illustrate the point (a dad to his two sons):

WHEN you completed your homework, THEN I loved you, and called my son outside to play.

If the first son completed his homework that same day (earlier today), his dad called him outside earlier that same day to play. If the second of the two sons didn't complete his homework until the following day (tomorrow), then his dad would have called him out then, to keep the promise the dad made to both of his sons.

Hopefully you can see that nothing in the tense of the sentence above keeps the dad from fulfilling his promise to both sons and two different times.

Furthermore, we already knew this was a prophecy, because: 1) it was provided in the OT and fulfilled in both the OT and then again hundreds of years later in the NT; and 2) there are hundreds of other prophecies that Jesus fulfilled, which leave no doubt of the connection between the OT and the NT.

The only thing that keeps you from seeing something this obvious is your own arrogance, which each of us needs to destroy every day, all day long. Part of removing the beam/log from your own eye, so you can help your brother with the speck in his eye.

Peace be upon you.

I found a flaw in the first so called prophecy and I stopped reading. Isn’t it odd that all though the OT David is King and will be King and was born in Bethlehem ?? 1st Samuel 17:12

I’m aware of all the prophecies that Christians claim are about Jesus and as always when you read a little further there is always a precept to refute that claim.

For example Emmanuel was a sign for King Ahaz. Isaiah 53 referenced someone with an offsprings when Jesus never had a wife let alone an offspring....the riding in on a donkey, I don’t have the scripture right now but Israel will ride into the kingdom on a donkey.....and the lost goes on and on.

I don’t want to go back and forth with anyone. All I’m saying that the prophecies never add up when you read a little more into it.

 

[Tidal]

..Am I choosing to reject Christianity by not believing in it's doctrines?

What did Jesus say that you don't like?

 

[Artful Revealer]

I'm **not** arguing my opinion, there is scholarship on the matter, two good places to start are:

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There is no antiquity to Kabbalah, other than that it evolved out of Islamic neoplatonism which was thriving at the time. (Neoplatonism itself having legitimate antiquity coming out of the school of Plato, a Greek philosopher).

Scholarship would unanimously agree that the ultimate expert in the field of Kabbalah and Jewish Mysticism is Gershom Scholem. Gerschom Scholem was clear in his identification of the origin of Kabbalah, namely it stemming from the Bahir, a 13th century AD book in the same region (the Languedoc) where Gnostic teachings were prevalent. He also showed the Bahir incorporated Gnostic elements which laid the foundation of Kabbalistic development in Spain in the following 2 centuries until the expulsion of Jews from Spain in 1492.

They did not need to leave France and go to the Middle East to find those mystical teachings who were present among the Cathars in the same region Kabbalah was born. Jews took the teachings of Gnostic Christians and adapted them to fit their Judaic religion, ie. applying them to their God who was antithetical to the God of the Gnostics.

Everyone who has followed the study of Kabbalah is aware that there is a tendency to tie Kabbalah to a pre-Christian oral tradition with the intent to make Kabbalah appear authentic. It doesn't work like that.

 

[Resistor]

Scholarship would unanimously agree that the ultimate expert in the field of Kabbalah and Jewish Mysticism is Gershom Scholem. Gerschom Scholem was clear in his identification of the origin of Kabbalah, namely it stemming from the Bahir, a 13th century AD book in the same region (the Languedoc) where Gnostic teachings were prevalent. He also showed the Bahir incorporated Gnostic elements which laid the foundation of Kabbalistic development in Spain in the following 2 centuries until the expulsion of Jews from Spain in 1492.

They did not need to leave France and go to the Middle East to find those mystical teachings who were present among the Cathars in the same region Kabbalah was born. Jews took the teachings of Gnostic Christians and adapted them to fit their Judaic religion, ie. applying them to their God who was antithetical to the God of the Gnostics.

Everyone who has followed the study of Kabbalah is aware that there is a tendency to tie Kabbalah to a pre-Christian oral tradition with the intent to make Kabbalah appear authentic. It doesn't work like that.

Gershom Sholem is an awesome writer but not an unbiased scholar and he overlooked a lot of things.

The Bahir is a 13th century text like the library of the Zohar.

Gnosticism itself is HEAVILY influenced by Neoplatonism (they even call their 'evil god' the Demiurge for damn sake, as with "the One"), both Gnosticism and Kabbalah are influenced by Neoplatonic, it's their common source.
Gnosticism is innately a full embrace of the Greek influences on Christianity and the attempt of Gentile Christians to distance themselves away from the Jewish basis of the original teachings of Jesus.

Kabbalah doesn't share much of an influence of Christian Gnosticism in comparison to Islamic Neoplatonism, the only significant areas they share are ones that are just common ground within their Neoplatonic influence. Doesn't take a genius to realize that.

Did you read those papers?

 

[Artful Revealer]

Gershom Sholem is an awesome writer but not an unbiased scholar and he overlooked a lot of things.

The Bahir is a 13th century text like the library of the Zohar.

Gnosticism itself is HEAVILY influenced by Neoplatonism (they even call their 'evil god' the Demiurge for damn sake, as with "the One"), both Gnosticism and Kabbalah are influenced by Neoplatonic, it's their common source.
Gnosticism is innately a full embrace of the Greek influences on Christianity and the attempt of Gentile Christians to distance themselves away from the Jewish basis of the original teachings of Jesus.

Kabbalah doesn't share much of an influence of Christian Gnosticism in comparison to Islamic Neoplatonism, the only significant areas they share are ones that are just common ground within their Neoplatonic influence. Doesn't take a genius to realize that.

Did you read those papers?

You expect me to have read those papers in the span of 15 minutes?

I'd rather you select the arguments from those papers yourself, as I have done with representing Scholem's position.

Gnostic Christianity does not stem from Neoplatonism. Neoplatonism postdates the early gnostics, Marcion, Valentinus, and other gnostics whose ideas were already prevalent in the 1st century AD, including among non-Christian Jewish sects. It is not a Gentile attempt to distance themselves from Judaism, since Christianity is in its core antithetical to the Rabbinic Judaism (Judaism as a theology, and not as the collection of national mythology) that was born after 70AD.

Christianity is more Greek than it is Judaic, which should come as no surprise considering Israel had been Hellenized for 300 years before Christ brought his Gospel.

 

[LittleLady]

Remove the log from your eye first remember?

Deuteronomy 32
16They made him jealous with their foreign gods and angered him with their detestable idols. 17 They sacrificed to false gods, which are not God— gods they had not known, gods that recently appeared, gods your ancestors did not fear.

He is Gods son that died for us, how could you not repent? If you don't repent, then you, as of now aren't even with the father. You have got to repent to the son first and accept he's the King of Israel before you worship God and follow his commandments.

That verse doesn't even go for me, because I don't worship the son, I repent and accept that he's the King of Israel, as the father says to do, but I don't ultimately worship him, I worship the father by abiding by his laws and serving him with faith and fear.

After all, I can't get to the father UNTIL I recognize MY sins first. I can't just randomly start worshipping him while I'm still UNCLEAN. That's the point of repenting every day. I guess you don't care, but I'm not trying to die in my sins.

 

[KoncreteMind]

Read the rest of the paragraph

“he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments.10 But

those who hate him he will repay to their face by destruction;
he will not be slow to repay to their face those who hate him.
11 Therefore, take care to follow the commands, decrees and laws I give you today.”

The condition given is those who hate God, and those who love God. Being of a certain tribe or lineage matters absolutely zero, nada, nothing, if you don’t love God, same for those not of that tribe and that love God it follows. Those who hate God, no matter their skin colour or lineage, God will repay with destruction. Not too complicated, you just had to read one more paragraph.

Look how hard it is for you to address Deuteronomy 7 6 lol. Either God chose a people to be His treasured possession or He didnt. Obviously, if you read the bible, hating/disobeying God and being of the lineage doesnt save anyone. So that goes without saying. But that doesnt change what God said about His treasured possession who He said He'd gather in the end.

yea the context of the time was important, because Israel was the only nation that worshipped the one God.

Yea and God said even though they disobeyed that in the end He'd have mercy upon them and gather them back to their land to live with Him forever. Thats the OT 101. Cant get around it.

like I said before a covenant is a two way promise, that’s t he definition. You keep your end, I keep mine. You don’t keep your end aka you don’t follow God and love him, the contract is null and void. That is how it’s presented here too, those that loveGod andthose that hate him, two classes of person

Yea they broke that covenant and God STILL said after that that He'd make another one with them (Israel/Judah).. So your point means nothing because in the end God still talks about gathering a LINEAGE of people. You reject the OT which is why you hide behind talking about "bad interpretations" instead of what it says itself..

 

[KoncreteMind]

He is Gods son that died for us,

Exodus 32
31 So Moses went back to the Lord and said, “Oh, what a great sin these people have committed! They have made themselves gods of gold. 32 But now, please forgive their sin—but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written.”
33 The Lord replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book.

No man can die for your sins is what God says... Of course you dont believe Him because of your idol Jesus..

how could you not repent? If you don't repent, then you, as of now aren't even with the father. You have got to repent to the son first and accept he's the King of Israel before you worship God and follow his commandments.

I go with David over you. David didnt have to repent to a "son" to be forgiven. Thats your idol that makes you do that. You have no part in what I worship when you follow Jesus...

That verse doesn't even go for me, because I don't worship the son, I repent and accept that he's the King of Israel, as the father says to do, but I don't ultimately worship him, I worship the father by abiding by his laws and serving him with faith and fear.

You repent to creation and not the Creator. Thats idolatry 101...

After all, I can't get to the father UNTIL I recognize MY sins first. I can't just randomly start worshipping him while I'm still UNCLEAN. That's the point of repenting every day. I guess you don't care, but I'm not trying to die in my sins.

Its more that I dont care about what you're saying because you the fact that Israel was given a law that they had to stick to FOREVER. That means once the law was finished being given, THAT WAS IT. There was nothing to be added or taken away. Anybody that came after that had to be in line with law or it wasnt to be followed.

So when I say "Well Moses didnt follow Jesus" that means that if God wanted us to follow Jesus, it would have been in the law. Since it wasnt that means all Jesus is is a test to see if Israel will stick to god, or move to the new idol that recently appeared. You moved to the new idol so you will lose your birthright. And thats assuming you're even an Israelite because NO, Native Americans/Mexicans arent Israelites and "anyone" CANNOT be an Israelite. ..

 

[KoncreteMind]

Again, the verse in question (with notes in parentheses):-

Hosea 11:1 WHEN Israel [was] a child (referencing a specific time period*), THEN I loved him (still referring to a specific time period**), AND called My son (non-specific) out of Egypt.

*Is "was" past tense? Of course it is. But everything before the first comma is a participial phrase, modifying what follows after the first comma (THEN...). Here's another example, to illustrate the point (a dad to his two sons):

WHEN you completed your homework, THEN I loved you, and called my son outside to play.

If the first son completed his homework that same day (earlier today), his dad called him outside earlier that same day to play. If the second of the two sons didn't complete his homework until the following day (tomorrow), then his dad would have called him out then, to keep the promise the dad made to both of his sons.

Second son? Following day? Lol at this madness. This is how you have to stretch, flip, twist, plank, somersault and whatever other gymnastic moves there are to make your book fit. If a dad says "when you completed your homework I called you out to play" he's saying that ONCE his son was finished, he called him. Theres no room for a second son on the following day. Thats you adding onto it so your book can fit. And its not going to fly.

Hopefully you can see that nothing in the tense of the sentence above keeps the dad from fulfilling his promise to both sons and two different times.

Theres no "two sons" in the OT. Just Israel. And God said when Israel was a child (past tense) He called him out of Egypt. Thats it. Past tense only. No imaginary son waiting in the cut to be "called the next day"... Thats you adding onto it to make your book fit. Wont work...

Furthermore, we already knew this was a prophecy, because: 1) it was provided in the OT and fulfilled in both the OT and then again hundreds of years later in the NT

I mean you can keep repeating yourself if you like but at the end of the day my point remains. God was speaking about when He CALLED (past tense) Israel out of Egypt. Cant take Him speaking about a past event and make it about some future event. Thats disingenuous but thats the only way your god fits the OT. By disingenuously twisting the OT

 

[A Freeman]

I found a flaw in the first so called prophecy and I stopped reading. Isn’t it odd that all though the OT David is King and will be King and was born in Bethlehem ?? 1st Samuel 17:12

I’m aware of all the prophecies that Christians claim are about Jesus and as always when you read a little further there is always a precept to refute that claim.

For example Emmanuel was a sign for King Ahaz. Isaiah 53 referenced someone with an offsprings when Jesus never had a wife let alone an offspring....the riding in on a donkey, I don’t have the scripture right now but Israel will ride into the kingdom on a donkey.....and the lost goes on and on.

I don’t want to go back and forth with anyone. All I’m saying that the prophecies never add up when you read a little more into it.

The name "David" is Hebrew, and in English means "well-beloved". Jesus, the "son of David" (a son descended from the line of David) was prophesied to be born in Bethlehem ("House of Bread").

The Hebrew name Emmanuel means "God with us".

So there is no flaw in the prophecies, only a flaw in people's understanding of those prophecies, caused by their own arrogance/ignorance (egos).

 

[A Freeman]

Second son? Following day? Lol at this madness. This is how you have to stretch, flip, twist, plank, somersault and whatever other gymnastic moves there are to make your book fit. If a dad says "when you completed your homework I called you out to play" he's saying that ONCE his son was finished, he called him. Theres no room for a second son on the following day. Thats you adding onto it so your book can fit. And its not going to fly.

No, that's your "self" ignoring the obvious facts that it/you are wrong, to defend the egotistical notion that it/you know better than God. You are the one stretching, flipping, twisting, etc., to promote your satanic viewpoint.

It's your arrogance that keep you from being able to "see" that even on a superficial level the verse could be referring to either Israel or Israel's King.

Theres no "two sons" in the OT. Just Israel.

While there is no disagreement that the Bible is written FOR Israel, you apparently haven't considered the following physical and spiritual references:-

Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the "I AM", Israel [is] My son, [even] My firstborn:

Jeremiah 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim [is] My firstborn.

Connection:-

Genesis 48:16-20
48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name [Israel] be named on them (let Ephraim and Manasseh be called Israel), and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
48:17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.
48:18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this [is] the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
48:19 And his father refused, and said, I know [it], my son, I know [it]: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude (Commonwealth) of nations.
And God said when Israel was a child (past tense) He called him out of Egypt. Thats it. Past tense only. No imaginary son waiting in the cut to be "called the next day"... Thats you adding onto it to make your book fit. Wont work...
48:20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee [Joseph] shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.

Ephraim (the British people) LEADS Israel, i.e.were placed over Israel and given the NAME Israel as well. The name "British" means "people of the Covenant", i.e. the PEOPLE Israel. And it is in the land of Ephraim (Great Britain) where we find the Davidic throne, that God promised David would never lack one of his descendants to sit upon (Jer. 33:17). So Israel remains God's firstborn son on Earth (firstborn among the tribes of the Earth, receiving a double-share inheritance from God), with Ephraim called the firstborn son because Ephraim LEADS Israel, IN BOTH THE PRESENT AND IN THE FUTURE, WHEN CHRIST IS GIVEN THE THRONE OF DAVID DURING HIS SECOND COMING.

Genesis 49:10, 22-24
49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah [to Joseph], nor a law-giver from between his feet, UNTIL Shiloh comes [from Joseph-Ephraim v 22-24]; and unto him [shall] the gathering of the people [be] (Rev. 7:4-9, Rev. 14:1-4).

49:22 Joseph [is] a fruitful bough, [even] a fruitful bough by a well; [whose] branches run over the wall:
49:23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot [at him], and hated him:
49:24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty [God] of Jacob; (from THERE [is] The Shepherd, The [Corner] Stone of Israel(1 Cor. 10:4; Daniel 2:34-5; 45);

So there we have it, in the very first book of the Bible, that Christ (the Firstborn Son of God in heaven) will incarnate a new body from Joseph-Ephraim (Ephraim was set before Mamasseh, as head over Israel) with a NEW NAME (Rev. 2:17, Rev. 3:12, Rev. 19:12) during His SECOND Coming, at which time the throne of David will be taken away from its current occupier (Elizabeth A.M. Battenberg) descended from the line of David, and given to Christ, according to prophecy (Ezek. 21:26-27, Luke 1:32-33).

So yes, there are TWO SONS: Israel (meant to be God's demonstration here on Earth), led from Ephraim, and Israel's KING: soon to be Christ Himself, God's Firstborn Son in Heaven (Col. 1:15).

I mean you can keep repeating yourself if you like but at the end of the day my point remains.

You're the one who keeps repeating himself, refusing to accept you are wrong and that God is right. All that's personally been done is to deliver His message of truth.

The bottom line here is you either mistakenly believe God is not all-powerful, and is allegedly the author of confusion, which is ridiculous (1 Cor. 14:33). And what is your paradigm based upon? The mistaken belief that you are smarter than God, know better than God, and know the English language better than God. And this is even after your multiple errors have been pointed out to you, expanding upon those errors in subsequent posts, in order to help you see them.

God was speaking about when He CALLED (past tense) Israel out of Egypt. Cant take Him speaking about a past event and make it about some future event. Thats disingenuous but thats the only way your god fits the OT. By disingenuously twisting the OT

Except it isn't God Who is twisting the OT, is it? It's your "self", trying to prove that God is somehow in error, because it's cooned you into mistakenly believing you(?) are smarter than God and know better than God. And you do all of this even after you've been shown the very prophecies you're referencing HAVE BEEN FULFILLED hundreds of years after they were made. What amazing arrogance!

Just look how disingenuous YOU (your "self" really) are being. The verse does NOT say God called "Israel" out of Egypt; that's what YOU have added to it to twist the verse's meaning. The verse specifically says: "...AND CALLED MY SON OUT OF EGYPT".

You are ASSUMING that son is Israel, while ignoring the fact it could be (and is) referring to God's Son, The King of Israel.

"When", and "then" are CONDITIONAL STATEMENTS. Do you apply this same irrational illogic with all of the statements and prophecies in the Bible?

Most (but not all) of the Book of Revelation is considered to be prophetic, i.e. about FUTURE events. (although some are presently happening at this point in time). Please take the time to see how many events are shared in either the past or present tense. A few examples (of many) below:-

Revelation 5:8 And WHEN (in the future) he had taken the Book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of holy people (those who really trust God).

Revelation 6:1 And I saw WHEN (in the future) the Lamb opened (past tense) one of the seals, and I heard (past tense), as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

Revelation 6:3 And WHEN (in the future) he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

Revelation 8:1 And WHEN (in the future) he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

Are you starting to see a pattern developing here? There's plenty more. Just read Christ's Revelation to John. And read the verse again in Hosea, bearing the above in mind. Please also consider these verses from Christ as well, regarding your attitude and in your reading of Hosea 11:1:

Matthew 18:3-4
18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and [then] become as little children, ye shall NOT enter into The Kingdom of heaven.
18:4 Whosoever therefore shall HUMBLE himself as this little child, the same is greatest in The Kingdom of heaven.

WHEN Israel has humbled itself (Prov. 16:5), and has become as little children, THEN Israel will be called out of Egypt, and will follow their King (The Firstborn Son of God: Christ) leading them out of Egypt (slavery). That's the way it works EVERY TIME.

Colossians 1:12-15
1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, Which hath made us meet to be sharers of the inheritance of the holy people in Light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into The Kingdom of His dear Son:
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Hebrews 1:1-4
1:1 God, Who at sundry times and in diverse manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the Prophets,
1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [His] Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds;
1:3 Who being the brightness of [His] glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by The Word of His power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of His Majesty on high;
1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance (Deut. 21:17) obtained a more excellent name than they.

 

[Tidal]

Jesus is going to come back and wipe out the people who are trying to kill the Jews...

Huh? Why on earth would Jesus care about the Jews and all other Jesus-rejecters?..

 

[Tidal]

YHWH does not take lightly to those who go out sinning on purpose..

Right, the Jews killed Jesus and have been rejecting him ever since, so it's definitely the naughty step for them..
Jesus said:- "Whoever rejects me rejects God" (Luke 10:16)

 

[Tidal]

Let’s say the jews were called to heal the world for the sake of argument. What happens when they reject God, which most of them do?

That's easy, jews and all Jesus-rejecters will be hitting this road on judgement day..-

Jesus said - "..for wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.." (Matt 7:13)

 

[lightseeker]

Look how hard it is for you to address Deuteronomy 7 6 lol. Either God chose a people to be His treasured possession or He didnt. Obviously, if you read the bible, hating/disobeying God and being of the lineage doesnt save anyone. So that goes without saying. But that doesnt change what God said about His treasured possession who He said He'd gather in the end.



Yea and God said even though they disobeyed that in the end He'd have mercy upon them and gather them back to their land to live with Him forever. Thats the OT 101. Cant get around it.



Yea they broke that covenant and God STILL said after that that He'd make another one with them (Israel/Judah).. So your point means nothing because in the end God still talks about gathering a LINEAGE of people. You reject the OT which is why you hide behind talking about "bad interpretations" instead of what it says itself..

Yes and all of those promises are contingent on faith as I showed you. You want me to address one paragraph in the Bible without talking about the next one? Lol good try.

 

[Tidal]

Jesus gave a traditional Essenic Jewish view of the Torah, Jesus added nothing..

Well why did God send him to earth?..

 

[Tidal]

Either God chose a people to be His treasured possession or He didnt...

God only chose the jews because they were the best of a bad bunch compared to the heathen tribes around them, and he used them to set up Israel as a relatively safe place so that he could send Jesus there.
At least he had a good 3-year run before they murdered him, so if they're still the "chosen people", I'm Mary Poppins..