The TRUE BIBLICAL TRUTH; Esau will fall, Jacob will rise

[A Freeman]

'
As I said to the other character when he/she walks around PRETENDING they have a point they can prove but back out when they cant, typical... But also on the flipside, appreciate the well wishes

The point was proven, even though you're pretending that it wasn't (while likewise pretending that "when" indicates past tense). You were even shown how the prophecy in Hosea 11:1 will be fulfilled yet again in the not-to-distant future, as Israel has sold itself back into slavery (Egypt) for a third time.

It's a testament to how sick/insane this world really is, that someone can argue against a prophecy that has already been fulfilled in exact and minute detail multiple times, all because they don't understand the English language and yet arrogantly believe they know better than God. No wonder Christ questioned whether He would find faith on Earth upon His Second Coming, during these end-times.

God Bless.

 

[lightseeker]

These are the scriptures you are mocking.

Nah I’m mocking you bruv, and I don’t accept your interpretation of the scriptures so you are basically talking about a different book to me. Are you racially Jewish or what? Like I said I never see you offer your position, only criticize others.

The Babylonians were not materialists, they were polytheists that believed in the afterlife, spiritual realms and the rest. They also infamously enslaved the Jewish people during the Exilic period.

Yes and it was there that the Babylonian Talmud was written by the Jews, a codification if the oral traditions of the Pharisees, and a text of the anti christ, of the most horrifying materialism, cruelty, and racism, that became the official Jewish religion, the religion of those who rejected Jesus Christ, the messiah who they had killed

 

[Resistor]

Nah I’m mocking you bruv, and I don’t accept your interpretation of the scriptures so you are basically talking about a different book to me.

Quote Deuteronomy 7:1-11, Deuteronomy 26:18-19 and John 4:21-24 from your book then, lets compare the two.

I never offered my interpretations, I only gave you what the plain text says, yet you disagree with the scripture and mock it.

 

[Resistor]

Yes and it was there that the Babylonian Talmud was written by the Jews, a codification if the oral traditions of the Pharisees, and a text of the anti christ, of the most horrifying materialism, cruelty, and racism, that became the official Jewish religion, the religion of those who rejected Jesus Christ, the messiah who they had killed

Most of the Hebrew Bible was written/recorded at that period too, only small amounts of known fragments still exist today in stone carvings before that period.

The rest of what you say is just a clownish joke and I hope you realize that.

 

[Tidal]

..all the endless Christian op’s where they are still arguing among themselves..

Yes, that's the organised "christian" religions and cults for you, full of "spiritual snobs", no wonder Jesus had to remind us we don't need them..-
"You have one teacher, me" (Matt 23:10)

Ordinary normal people had no trouble understanding him at all-
"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)

 

[lightseeker]

Quote Deuteronomy 7:1-11, Deuteronomy 26:18-19 and John 4:21-24 from your book then, lets compare the two.

I never offered my interpretations, I only gave you what the plain text says, yet you disagree with the scripture and mock it.

I’m good homie. I offered my position, you did nothing to refute it as far as I’m concerned, also the multiple other points I’ve brought to this thread and have gone unrefuted. I’m sure you’d love to get into a theoretical battle because your religion of mind and matter thrive there, but that’s not my domain. I listen to the essence of christs teachings, and practice those words. If that is too much for you to do as well, I wish you all the best in investigating your theories

Most of the Hebrew Bible was written/recorded at that period too, only small amounts of known fragments still exist today in stone carvings before that period.

The rest of what you say is just a clownish joke and I hope you realize that.

Most of the Hebrew Bible was written/recorded at that period too, only small amounts of known fragments still exist today in stone carvings before that period.

The rest of what you say is just a clownish joke and I hope you realize that.

simple history. I’ll restate it.

talmud was written in babylon
it codified the oral tradition
it rejects Jesus Christ as the messiah violently hence it is of the anti christ
it contains horrifying materialism, cruelty
it became the official Jewish religion
it was written by the lineage of teachings which condemned Jesus to death

pretty simple here buds

 

[Resistor]

I’m good homie. I offered my position, you did nothing to refute it as far as I’m concerned, also the multiple other points I’ve brought to this thread and have gone unrefuted. I’m sure you’d love to get into a theoretical battle because your religion of mind and matter thrive there, but that’s not my domain. I listen to the essence of christs teachings, and practice those words. If that is too much for you to do as well, I wish you all the best in investigating your theories


simple history. I’ll restate it.

talmud was written in babylon
it codified the oral tradition
it rejects Jesus Christ as the messiah violently hence it is of the anti christ
it contains horrifying materialism, cruelty
it became the official Jewish religion
it was written by the lineage of teachings which condemned Jesus to death

pretty simple here buds

You are self righteous.

Look how quickly you go to attack me with "your religion of mind and matter" because you disagree with me and aren't able to refute me.
There is neither mind nor matter in my religion, it is spirit. Get your facts straight. You're sounding like another hypocritical godless pretender who thrives of ideology but doesn't know anything spiritual.

I'll repeat as Jesus said, how can I talk about spiritual things with you when you don't even understand earthly things. How can you know the spirit when you don't even know what intelligence is.

 

[lightseeker]

You are self righteous.

Look how quickly you go to attack me with "your religion of mind and matter" because you disagree with me and aren't able to refute me.
There is neither mind nor matter in my religion, it is spirit. Get your facts straight. You're sounding like another hypocritical godless pretender who thrives of ideology but doesn't know anything spiritual.

I'll repeat as Jesus said, how can I talk about spiritual things with you when you don't even understand earthly things. How can you know the spirit when you don't even know what intelligence is.

I don’t even know what you are arguing for, I have asked and you won’t say where you stand. You gave two scriptures, and I told you I don’t accept the Talmudic interpretations of the Jewish religion, I accept the kabbalistic views of the Old Testament and the interpretations given by Christ.

I believe the worship of the material body in Judaism is satanic in nature because it exalts the body above the soul, so did Jesus and he refuted the high priests of his religion over and over again for not understanding this. In fact the scripture you just quoted was Jesus doing just this, he was speaking to a high priest of Israel, saying he needed to be born again, and the high priest couldn’t imagine it meaning anything other than his material body. Another Example, the rabbi who kept ritual purity is not justified over the samaritan who helped an unclean one etc etc etc, I am mocking you a bit because i already put forward all of this pages and pages ago and now here we are again as if all that never happened, it’s tiresome.

 

[Resistor]

I don’t even know what you are arguing for, I have asked and you won’t say where you stand. You gave two scriptures, and I told you I don’t accept the Talmudic interpretations of the Jewish religion, I accept the kabbalistic views of the Old Testament and the interpretations given by Christ.

I believe the worship of the material body in Judaism is satanic in nature because it exalts the body above the soul, so did Jesus and he refuted the high priests of his religion over and over again for not understanding this. In fact the scripture you just quoted was Jesus doing just this, he was speaking to a high priest of Israel, saying he needed to be born again, and the high priest couldn’t imagine it meaning anything other than his material body. Another Example, the rabbi who kept ritual purity is not justified over the samaritan who helped an unclean one etc etc etc, I am mocking you a bit because i already put forward all of this pages and pages ago and now here we are again as if all that never happened, it’s tiresome.

Jesus gave a traditional Essenic Jewish view of the Torah, Jesus added nothing, in fact he criticized the Pharisees for prohibiting what isn't prohibited (kind of like how Muhammad done that as as well).

Kabbalistic views are not Jewish, Kabbalah is Greek as I've said. It has no authentic Jewish roots, it was taken from Islamic Neoplatonism (which was very popular in prior centuries to the Sefer Yetzirah). Neoplatonism is Greek philosophy out of the school of Plato.

I don't accept or reject the Talmud, it's a critical piece of Biblical history and only an idiot would reject it (like with the four Gospels and other early 1st century messianic texts - they're just literature subservient to the Hebrew Bible and pieces of 1st century literature, but not scripture). The Torah though is what we are commanded to follow and observe. You are opposed to this yet claim to believe in our Messiah, the irony is through the roof!!

Stop claiming you've said stuff and show it, else go back to being a self-righteous goddless hypocrite.

 

[Resistor]

I believe the worship of the material body in Judaism

Sources? where have you read this garbage? worshiping the material body is not a thing in Judaism Worshiping God is

 

[lightseeker]

Jesus gave a traditional Essenic Jewish view of the Torah, Jesus added nothing, in fact he criticized the Pharisees for prohibiting what isn't prohibited (kind of like how Muhammad done that as as well).

Kabbalistic views are not Jewish, Kabbalah is Greek as I've said. It has no authentic Jewish roots, it was taken from Islamic Neoplatonism (which was very popular in prior centuries to the Sefer Yetzirah). Neoplatonism is Greek philosophy out of the school of Plato.

I don't accept or reject the Talmud, it's a critical piece of Biblical history and only an idiot would reject it (like with the four Gospels and other early 1st century messianic texts - they're just literature subservient to the Hebrew Bible and pieces of 1st century literature, but not scripture). The Torah though is what we are commanded to follow and observe. You are opposed to this yet claim to believe in our Messiah, the irony is through the roof!!

Stop claiming you've said stuff and show it, else go back to being a self-righteous goddless hypocrite.

Lol good for you bud. To be perfectly frank I’m not getting much from this conversation. You seem to want to complicate things and not address the points on the table. All I’ve said is ready and available in this thread, be my guest to go find it. Kabbalah comes from rabbi Simeon Ben yohai, not Plotinus, you are just wrong about that. plotinus never talked about the Hebrew language, the sephiroth, any kabbalistic interpretations of scripture. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion if you have ever read Plotinus or Kabbalah. Kind of baffling. Neither did Plato, but Neoplatonism comes from Plotinus, not Plato. Platos school is Platonism.

Sources? where have you read this garbage? worshiping the material body is not a thing in Judaism Worshiping God is

I read it in this thread, to start withdo jews or do jews not count their body as making them righteous? Is it or is it not the point of this thread that we are in. Lol. Jews talk endlessly about their blood, their race, their lineage, seed. Matter. I don’t know how you can deny this.

 

[Resistor]

Lol good for you bud. To be perfectly frank I’m not getting much from this conversation. You seem to want to complicate things and not address the points on the table. All I’ve said is ready and available in this thread, be my guest to go find it.

As I knew, you have nothing.

Kabbalah comes from rabbi Simeon Ben yohai, not Plotinus, you are just wrong about that. plotinus never talked about the Hebrew language, the sephiroth, any kabbalistic interpretations of scripture. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion if you have ever read Plotinus or Kabbalah. Kind of baffling. Neither did Plato, but Neoplatonism comes from Plotinus, not Plato. Platos school is Platonism.

Simeon Ben yohai did not write the Zohar, LOL! Moses de Leon did, then some further assorted small sections were written by later authors. There is no evidence for Kabbalah prior to him.
Also the Zohar wasn't written in Hebrew, it was written in Aramaic. Neoplatonism became very popular in the Medieval era because Muslims (who were incredibly intellectual at the time) were translating thousands of old Greek texts into Arabic and Persian. Because of the confluence of traditions, both Christians and Jews who spoke/read Arabic were being influenced by it and translating such works into their own language.
Prior to Moses de Leon, there was several Islamic philosophers and mystics, as well as Jewish Neoplatonists that were engaging their own speculative theology and mysticism. Which sowed seeds, but this was all 1100 CE era.
Kabbalah has only been around for about 900 years.
I have no qualms about that, our real mysticism is way older dating back to around 200 BCE at the earliest, based upon the mystic visions of Prophets like Joseph and Ezekiel.

You don't know your history, you only know the crap that you've probably heard from western occultists, LOL!

I read it in this thread, to start withdo jews or do jews not count their body as making them righteous? Is it or is it not the point of this thread that we are in. Lol. Jews talk endlessly about their blood, their race, their lineage, seed. Matter. I don’t know how you can deny this.

Yes, God made a covenant, doesn't make us materialists. What logic

 

[lightseeker]

As I knew, you have nothing.



Simeon Ben yohai did not write the Zohar, LOL! Moses de Leon did, then some further assorted small sections were written by later authors. There is no evidence for Kabbalah prior to him.
Also the Zohar wasn't written in Hebrew, it was written in Aramaic. Neoplatonism became very popular in the Medieval era because Muslims (who were incredibly intellectual at the time) were translating thousands of old Greek texts into Arabic and Persian. Because of the confluence of traditions, both Christians and Jews who spoke/read Arabic were being influenced by it and translating such works into their own language.
Prior to Moses de Leon, there was several Islamic philosophers and mystics, as well as Jewish Neoplatonists that were engaging their own speculative theology and mysticism. Which sowed seeds, but this was all 1100 CE era.
Kabbalah has only been around for about 900 years.
I have no qualms about that, our real mysticism is way older dating back to around 200 BCE at the earliest, based upon the mystic visions of Prophets like Joseph and Ezekiel.

You don't know your history, you only know the crap that you've probably heard from western occultists, LOL!



Yes, God made a covenant, doesn't make us materialists. What logic

you said Plato started Kabbalah and that it was greek, lmao don’t complicate the issue that’s ridiculous. You didn’t even know what Neoplatonism was, you thought that was started by Plato too. Have you read the Zohar? Most of the passages start with Ben yohais name. Sure his disciples wrote it later. It clearly came from him.

and God made a covenant and you interpreted it materially. And last post you said you had never even heard of such a notion. Lol. Getting some seriously disingenuous vibes from you

 

[Resistor]

you said Plato started Kabbalah, lmao don’t complicate the issue. You didn’t even know what Neoplatonism was, you thought that was started by Plato too. Have you read the Zohar? Most of the passages start with Ben yohais name. Sure his disciples wrote it later. It clearly came from him.

I never said that Plato started Kabbalah, LOL! If you'd like to bring up that quote, I'd love to see it I said that Kabbalah is Neoplatonic and takes directly from Neoplatonism (imported by Muslims, which both Christian and Jewish philosophers and mystics embraced).

The Zohar is pseudepigraphica and there is no evidence for the Zohar, nor Kabbalah in general prior to the Medieval era, sorry to burst your bubble.

Yes I've read the Zohar, not all of it (way too long for even the most devout Kabbalah students to read all of in their lifetimes) but I've read some large chunks of it. It's Neoplatonic midrash on Biblical stories written in the 13th century.

and God made a covenant and you interpreted it materially. And last post you said you had never even heard of such a notion. Lol. Getting some seriously disingenuous vibes from you

You don't like people disagreeing with you and being unable to answer them.

 

[lightseeker]

I never said that Plato started Kabbalah, LOL! If you'd like to bring up that quote, I'd love to see it I said that Kabbalah is Neoplatonic and takes directly from Neoplatonism (imported by Muslims, which both Christian and Jewish philosophers and mystics embraced).

The Zohar is pseudepigraphica and there is no evidence for the Zohar, nor Kabbalah in general prior to the Medieval era, sorry to burst your bubble.

Yes I've read the Zohar, not all of it (way too long for even the most devout Kabbalah students to read all of in their lifetimes) but I've read some large chunks of it. It's Neoplatonic midrash on Biblical stories written in the 13th century.



You don't like people disagreeing with you and being unable to answer them.

Again I don’t care if Neoplatonism started Kabbalah, I like Neoplatonism, definitely a lot more than Babylonian Talmudry so that point is moot. Pray tell now, what are you trying to prove? You have successfully steered the argument far away from the territory I was speaking in and have still not brought any positive stance. I take it you are a Jew now from your profile picture? Do you live in Israel?

 

[lightseeker]

Know them by their fruits

the fruits of Babylonian Talmudic Jewry which some here are proponents of are two of the worst horrors in world history - the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, and the creation of the state of Israel.

 

[Resistor]

Know them by their fruits

the fruits of Babylonian Talmudic Jewry which some here are proponents of are two of the worst horrors in world history - the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, and the creation of the state of Israel.

Keep ranting your irrelevant nonsense, you're not even talking to me but yourself. I don't follow Rabbinical Judaism you noob, there are more than one form of Judaism, LOL!

 

[lightseeker]

Keep ranting your irrelevant nonsense, you're not even talking to me but yourself. I don't follow Rabbinical Judaism you noob, there are more than one form of Judaism, LOL!

Atheistic Judaism? That’s the most popular.
Also are you in Israel?

 

[Resistor]

Atheistic Judaism? That’s the most popular.

How the hell can you have an atheist that follows the Torah? again what logic from you. I'm Conservative, not Orthodox. We only regard Talmudic literature as part of tradition but not as authoritative, we reject the over-importance given to Rabbis by Orthodox Jews but are not too fluid or elastic with everything in the manner that Reform Jews are. Everything is Torah-centric but we are not fundamentalists and are critical in how we practice our religion.
The problem with Orthodox Jews is that they started taking Talmud (oral torah) as an authority by itself (which doesn't make itself), when it had been previously a debate literature of the evolving views on the way different kinds of rulings are taken under basically every kind of situation imaginable on earth. You don't know Judaism so unfortunately everything I say will go over your head and you'll proceed in your continual arrogance and ill-formed opinions.

Also are you in Israel?

No, are you?

 

[lightseeker]

How the hell can you have an atheist that follows the Torah? again what logic from you. I'm Conservative, not Orthodox. We only regard Talmudic literature as part of tradition but not as authoritative, we reject the over-importance given to Rabbis by Orthodox Jews but are not too fluid or elastic with everything in the manner that Reform Jews are. Everything is Torah-centric but we are not fundamentalists and are critical in how we practice our religion.
The problem with Orthodox Jews is that they started taking Talmud (oral torah) as an authority by itself (which doesn't make itself), when it had been previously a debate literature of the evolving views on the way different kinds of rulings are taken under basically every kind of situation imaginable on earth. You don't know Judaism so unfortunately everything I say will go over your head and you'll proceed in your continual arrogance and ill-formed opinions.



No, are you?

Most Jews in modern day are atheists. I find it strange when I give very simple facts and you act like it is incomprehensible. It has happened several times

Jewish atheism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

No I’m not in the satanic operation called Israel, I’d be ashamed to be a Jew and have the most horrific state in history expressing their religion of hatred and atheism in the name of my religion but that’s just me