The Trinity Delusion

[A Freeman]

Tag your “it”


There is a lot of unnecessary confusion about Philippians 2:6 for two primary reasons:

1) because it's been very poorly translated; and
2) because people ignore the glaring contradictions it poses in its mistranslated state (cognitive dissonance).

Please see the King James Version of the passage in question below:

Philippians 2:5-11 (KJV)
2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

If one takes an honest look at this passage it should be self-evident that verse 2:6 not only contradicts itself, but it also contradicts the context of the entire passage (Php. 2:5-11), and the words of Christ.

Does God make Himself of no reputation? Does God make Himself in the likeness of men (Num. 23:19)? Does The Most High need to humble Himself? To whom would God be obedient or serve? How could our Eternal/Everlasting, All-Powerful, All-Knowing, Ever-Present and Unchanging God die (Ps. 90:2, Mal. 3:6)?

The passage is about learning HUMILITY from Christ's Example. There would be nothing humble about considering oneself to be equal to The Most High God, something that Christ clearly didn't think of Himself (John 10:29, John 13:16, John 14:28).

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I.

Christ also quite clearly didn't think of Himself as God; Christ's God and Father is our God and Father (Matt. 27:46, John 20:17, Rev. 3:12), which is why Christ taught His Disciples to pray to Father (Matt. 6:9-13).

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto MY FATHER, and your Father; and [to] MY GOD, and your God.

Thus the words of Christ alone prove beyond any doubt that Philippians 2:6 has very obviously been mistranslated, and a careful look at the verse itself and its context confirms this.

The opening phrase of verse 2:6 states the following from the original Greek:

2:6 Who, being in the form of God;

No one, including God Himself, would describe themselves as being “in the form (or likeness) of themselves”; they would only describe another in such a way. Like a father describing his son as “a chip off the old block”. This statement is thus, by itself, confirming Christ's own words that He is NOT God, nor God's equal. As it says elsewhere in Scripture, Christ was CREATED/MADE in the IMAGE (likeness) of God (2 Cor. 4:4, Col. 1:15, Heb. 1:3). An image is NOT the original; it is a LIKENESS of the original, having its form.

The second phrase from verse 2:6 is rendered as follows in the KJV:

thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

and somewhat differently in other versions, where “grasped” or “clinged to”, etc. have been used without any support from the original Greek. The word “robbery” is derived from the Greek word: ἁρπαγμὸν (harpagmon), which occurs only once in Scripture: in Philippians 2:6.

The obvious mistranslation in the KJV creates yet another ridiculous paradox, on top of it contradicting Christ's own words in hundreds of other verses. Different parts of the same verse not only contradict each other, it then would have us believe Christ was rationalizing why it shouldn't be thought of as robbery to supposedly be equal to God.

IF Christ was already equal with God, what would be the point of Christ considering it not to be robbery? And if Christ considered it not to be robbery to be equal to God, then why didn't He personally tell His Disciples He this? We know instead that Christ told them that He is subordinate to Father, because Father is greater than He is. And Paul confirmed this in other places as well.

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

There is also the extremely deceitful insertion of the word “it” in the KJV, which isn't found in the original Greek. In other words, “harpagmon”, could not possibly be translated as “it robbery” even if “robbery” is considered to be accurate. The reason this insertion is important is because it totally changes the meaning of the verse.

The following example illustrating this with two sentences is from:
http://www.trinityexamined.com/philippians-26-the-trinity-and-equality-with-god/

Sentence #1: “He did not consider it robbery to assume the throne.”

This person assumed the throne and did not consider it robbery to do so. Now, the second sentence is identical, except it removes the word “it.”

Sentence #2: “He did not consider robbery to assume the throne.”

Now this person would not even consider the act of robbery to assume the throne.

Hopefully this illustrates how the meaning can be completely reversed merely with the insertion of the word “it”, which is not part of the original Greek. Christ, Who was doing miracles while inside the body of Jesus, including raising people from the dead, could easily have claimed to be equal with God being able to do such things; BUT HE DID NOT DO THAT.

Instead, Christ consistently and repeatedly gave ALL of the credit and the glory for EVERYTHING that He did to His Father and His God, without Whom Christ said He could do NOTHING (John 5:19-21).

Therefore, if the KJV had been properly translated directly from the Greek, using “robbery” for “harpagmon”, Philippians 2:6 would read as follows:

2:6 Who, being in the form of God, did not consider robbery to be equal with God:

which would then be in perfect agreement with the rest of the verse (2:6), with the context of the passage, and with everything that Christ Himself actually said.

Philippians 2:5-11 (KJV)
2:5 Let THIS mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus (would you think it humble to consider yourself equal to God?):
2:6 Who, being in the form of God (not God Himself – Col. 1:12-15, Rev. 3:12), did not consider robbery to be equal with God (i.e. Christ thought it NOT correct to be equal with God, which would have been robbery):
2:7 But made himself of no reputation (which would preclude claiming to be equal to God, as to God goes ALL of the glory), and took upon him the form of a servant (to God – Matt. 10:24, John 13:16), and was made in the likeness of men (which God could NEVER do – Num. 23:19, 1 Sam. 15:29, Hos. 11:9):
2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself (before God), and became obedient (to God) unto death, even the death of the cross.
2:9 Wherefore God (Christ's Father and God) also hath highly exalted him (Christ), and GIVEN him a name which is above every name (Saviour):
2:10 That at the name of Jesus (Saviour) every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth (except for God Himself – 1 Cor. 15:28);
2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[Journeyman]

I'm only recently back looking at religion again after a long time as agnostic atheist. I've come to it from a strange direction in that it was through becoming more aware of the influence of the occult and the evil at the top of society that I then looked for the good that they were opposing and subverting. I've also read some, but not all of the thread. So if this question is naïve or misinformed please accept my apologies.

I think A Freeman has articulated some of the issues I also have with the concept of the Trinity. The roots in Babylonian theology and the seemingly firm statement in the First Commandment and elsewhere. I'm also very suspicious of the hand of man, Rome in particular and what was to become the Vatican in the Council of Nicea. The fact the Vatican espouses something is enough for me to be concerned that it's some form of deception.

I also wonder why something which is so fundamental to salvation could be left in any way ambiguous? There's undoubtedly been many millions of devout, genuine people throughout history that have believed in the trinity, would they all really be damned through being misinformed by their parents, teachers, priests etc? Why would it be left to later Christians to codify and expand on this key aspect of doctrine? Why isn't there a plain statement by Jesus himself that would make the truth clear and impossible to twist or misstate?

 

[A Freeman]

The Trinity is the mystery of the Godhead and it is not delusional, and just because you can't understand it; it doesn't mean that those who were meant to understand are anything but delusional. God bless!

No, the "trinity" is NOT the "mystery of the Godhead" as Satan's priests have posited; it is utter confusion and delusional nonsense that no one can understand because it is a pagan fantasy. How can anyone honestly think that God wants us to believe a Father really isn't a Father, and a Son really isn't a Son, and that 3 = 1 and/or 1 = 3 or that Christ being "the firstborn of every creature" doesn't really mean that Christ was the firstborn, first-created by God, or that Christ having many brethren doesn't really mean Christ has brethren, or somehow means that God has brethren, or that the invisible God, Who is a SPIRIT-BEING, is somehow visible and human, etc., etc., etc.

God is NOT the author of confusion; Satan is (1 Cor. 14:33).

The Godhead is very simple: GOD IS THE HEAD OF US ALL, INCLUDING CHRIST.

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and THE HEAD OF CHRIST [IS] GOD.

 

[A Freeman]

I'm only recently back looking at religion again after a long time as agnostic atheist. I've come to it from a strange direction in that it was through becoming more aware of the influence of the occult and the evil at the top of society that I then looked for the good that they were opposing and subverting. I've also read some, but not all of the thread. So if this question is naïve or misinformed please accept my apologies.

If someone is genuinely seeking the truth, they can do exactly what you've done with every single man-made institution on this planet, including the corporate fictional organized religions (church), and the corporate fictional governments (state), with their corporate fictional courts, corporate fictional medical and pharmaceutical industries, etc. What they will find is that NONE of them are what they appear to be on their surface; they are -- without exception -- EVIL, based on nice sounding phrases that hide the fact they are all in business to make a profit at the expense of everyone else.

I think A Freeman has articulated some of the issues I also have with the concept of the Trinity. The roots in Babylonian theology and the seemingly firm statement in the First Commandment and elsewhere. I'm also very suspicious of the hand of man, Rome in particular and what was to become the Vatican in the Council of Nicea. The fact the Vatican espouses something is enough for me to be concerned that it's some form of deception.

Absolutely. The Roman Catholic church is the largest business empire on Earth, owning more real estate, stocks, money, precious metals, paintings, artifacts, etc. than any other corporate enterprise in the world. The Romans are also the direct descendants of the Babylonians, and the only race of people to destroy the only Temple that God ever sanctioned to be built on this planet: Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem.

They did it the first time c. 588 BC as the Babylonians, and the second time (Herod's rebuilt temple), c. 70 AD as the Romans, but they are the same race of people.

I also wonder why something which is so fundamental to salvation could be left in any way ambiguous? There's undoubtedly been many millions of devout, genuine people throughout history that have believed in the trinity, would they all really be damned through being misinformed by their parents, teachers, priests etc?

These are very good questions and, in truth, they've all been answered in Scripture if people will take the time to look for them with an open-mind.

With regard to your first question about the many millions of people that have believed in the "trinity", please see the following verses:

Matthew 7:7-8
7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Someone with a genuine love for the truth will not stop until they have found it. They won't accept someone else's word for anything, without conducting their own thorough research and testing into the subject matter, without any preconceived notions. The difficulty is there are very, very few willing to do this. Instead, most choose the quick and easy path, assuming that their "leaders" know what they're talking about. Please see a few of the many warnings about doing that which can be drawn from Scripture:

Exodus 23:2 Thou shalt not follow a multitude to [do] evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to agree falsely with the majority and thereby pervert [judgment]:

Isaiah 3:12 [As for] My people, children [are] their oppressors, and women rule over them. O My people, they which lead thee cause [thee] to err, and lead thee astray, TO THY DESTRUCTION.

Matthew 7:13-14
7:13 Enter ye in at the "Strait" gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and MANY there be which go in thereat:
7:14 Because Strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] The Way, which leadeth unto Life, and FEW there be that find it.

If someone will take an honest look at the policies and doctrines promoted by the so-called leaders of organized religions (priests, pastors, rabbis, imams, etc.), and compare them to what it actually says in Scripture, they should immediately notice that the churches (and synagogues, mosques, temples, etc.) are ALL doing the exact opposite of what the Scriptures actually say. It's no wonder some are driven to atheism, or are agnostic, after witnessing such blatant hypocrisy.

Christ told everyone NOT to go to church, because only heathens and hypocrites do that, so they can be seen by others (Matt. 6:5-8). This warning is reiterated in the Koran (Sura 4:142, Sura 7:55, Sura 9:107-111, Sura 33:33). So what to BILLIONS of "Christians" and "Muslims" do? The exact opposite. That is why Christ referred to the leaders of these people as "the blind leading the blind" and warned everyone yet again NOT to follow them, because they are ALL headed for their own destruction (Matt. 15:14).

How could "leaders", who do not know God, nor anything about Him, as evidenced by their firm commitment to do the exact opposite of what we've been COMMANDED to do, be in a position to teach anyone else ANYTHING about God? Hopefully this illustrates just how crazy this world really is, and why we crucified Jesus 2000 years ago for telling us the truth (Isa. 30:9-15).

The Bible itself tells everyone how to prove to themselves whether it is truth or not. And, unsurprisingly, all that is required is for the truth-seeker to actually DO what it says (not what other people claim it says) and they will see the results for themselves.

John 7:16-17
7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me.
7:17 If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.

Note: the above passage is yet another of HUNDREDS of passage directly out of the mouth of Jesus telling everyone he's NOT God.

Why would it be left to later Christians to codify and expand on this key aspect of doctrine?

Exactly. It wasn't. We were to spread the Good News Gospel Message that Christ teaches: that even at this late-hour, everyone who turns from their evil, sinful, criminal ways of breaking God's Law, truly repents and returns to obeying God ONLY will LIVE.

Instead, "Christianity" invented its own "gospel" message of "Jesus did it for us, so we don't have to keep The Law/obey God only" which, unsurprisingly, is the exact opposite of Christ's actual teachings (Matt. 5:17-20). Of course we were warned about that too.

Galatians 1:3
1:3 Grace [be] to you and peace from God the Father, AND [from] our Lord Christ Jesus,
1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the Will of God and our (adopted) Father:
1:5 To Whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.
1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel (christianity):
1:7 Which is not another (because they "call" it christianity); but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the [True] gospel of Christ.

Anyone who reads the Bible should notice that is has one central and unchanging message running through it from cover-to-cover:

Obedience to God (Good/Truth) tends to LIFE and disobedience to God (Evil/sin) tends to death (Deut. 30:15-20). But it's up to each of us to SEEK THE TRUTH (free-will).

2 Thessalonians 2:3-12
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of The Destroyer (Lucifer - Satan);
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in The Temple of God, showing himself that he is God (the Holy Father).
2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2:7 For the mystery (Rev. 17:5) of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the [Sword of the] Spirit from his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness [of the enlightening] of his coming:
2:9 [Even the Wicked], whose coming is the work of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of The Truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong DELUSION, that they should believe a lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not The Truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Why isn't there a plain statement by Jesus himself that would make the truth clear and impossible to twist or misstate?

Jesus made plenty of them (hundreds actually). Please see a few of those hundreds below (and many more within this thread if you're interested).

Here is where Christ, through the mouth of Jesus taught the disciples to pray. Please note well we are to pray to Father (God), NOT to the "trinity", and to hallow His Name ( NOT the pagan "trinity").

Matthew 6:9-15
6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name.
6:10 Thy Kingdom come. Thy Will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.
6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
6:12 And forgive us our debts and trespasses (if we truly repent), as we forgive our debtors and those who trespass against us (if they truly repent).
6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For Thine is The Kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

And here is where Christ, through the mouth of Jesus, told us that Father is His God and our God:

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, MY GOD, MY GOD, why hast Thou forsaken me? (Eno. 89:20; Psalm 22; Isaiah 52:13 to 54:1; Sura 4:157-8.)

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto MY FATHER, AND YOUR FATHER; AND [TO] MY GOD, AND YOUR GOD.

And again after the ascension, with Christ sitting at Father's Right Hand, in heaven:

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in The Temple of MY GOD, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of MY GOD, and the name of the city of MY GOD, [which is] New Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from MY GOD: and [I will write upon him] my NEW name.

It should be self-evident to any genuine truth-seeker that God cannot have a God, or He wouldn't be THE MOST HIGH GOD, by definition.

This list of plain truth statements by Christ can go on and on and on. And in truth it has already done exactly that throughout this thread, to assist those who have a genuine love for, and are actively seeking, the Truth.

 

[Journeyman]

If someone is genuinely seeking the truth, they can do exactly what you've done with every single man-made institution on this planet, including the corporate fictional organized religions (church), and the corporate fictional governments (state), with their corporate fictional courts, corporate fictional medical and pharmaceutical industries, etc. What they will find is that NONE of them are what they appear to be on their surface; they are -- without exception -- EVIL, based on nice sounding phrases that hide the fact they are all in business to make a profit at the expense of everyone else.


Absolutely. The Roman Catholic church is the largest business empire on Earth, owning more real estate, stocks, money, precious metals, paintings, artifacts, etc. than any other corporate enterprise in the world. The Romans are also the direct descendants of the Babylonians, and the only race of people to destroy the only Temple that God ever sanctioned to be built on this planet: Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem.

They did it the first time c. 588 BC as the Babylonians, and the second time (Herod's rebuilt temple), c. 70 AD as the Romans, but they are the same race of people.


These are very good questions and, in truth, they've all been answered in Scripture if people will take the time to look for them with an open-mind.

With regard to your first question about the many millions of people that have believed in the "trinity", please see the following verses:

Matthew 7:7-8
7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Someone with a genuine love for the truth will not stop until they have found it. They won't accept someone else's word for anything, without conducting their own thorough research and testing into the subject matter, without any preconceived notions. The difficulty is there are very, very few willing to do this. Instead, most choose the quick and easy path, assuming that their "leaders" know what they're talking about. Please see a few of the many warnings about doing that which can be drawn from Scripture:

Exodus 23:2 Thou shalt not follow a multitude to [do] evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to agree falsely with the majority and thereby pervert [judgment]:

Isaiah 3:12 [As for] My people, children [are] their oppressors, and women rule over them. O My people, they which lead thee cause [thee] to err, and lead thee astray, TO THY DESTRUCTION.

Matthew 7:13-14
7:13 Enter ye in at the "Strait" gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and MANY there be which go in thereat:
7:14 Because Strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] The Way, which leadeth unto Life, and FEW there be that find it.

If someone will take an honest look at the policies and doctrines promoted by the so-called leaders of organized religions (priests, pastors, rabbis, imams, etc.), and compare them to what it actually says in Scripture, they should immediately notice that the churches (and synagogues, mosques, temples, etc.) are ALL doing the exact opposite of what the Scriptures actually say. It's no wonder some are driven to atheism, or are agnostic, after witnessing such blatant hypocrisy.

Christ told everyone NOT to go to church, because only heathens and hypocrites do that, so they can be seen by others (Matt. 6:5-8). This warning is reiterated in the Koran (Sura 4:142, Sura 7:55, Sura 9:107-111, Sura 33:33). So what to BILLIONS of "Christians" and "Muslims" do? The exact opposite. That is why Christ referred to the leaders of these people as "the blind leading the blind" and warned everyone yet again NOT to follow them, because they are ALL headed for their own destruction (Matt. 15:14).

How could "leaders", who do not know God, nor anything about Him, as evidenced by their firm commitment to do the exact opposite of what we've been COMMANDED to do, be in a position to teach anyone else ANYTHING about God? Hopefully this illustrates just how crazy this world really is, and why we crucified Jesus 2000 years ago for telling us the truth (Isa. 30:9-15).

The Bible itself tells everyone how to prove to themselves whether it is truth or not. And, unsurprisingly, all that is required is for the truth-seeker to actually DO what it says (not what other people claim it says) and they will see the results for themselves.

John 7:16-17
7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me.
7:17 If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.

Note: the above passage is yet another of HUNDREDS of passage directly out of the mouth of Jesus telling everyone he's NOT God.


Exactly. It wasn't. We were to spread the Good News Gospel Message that Christ teaches: that even at this late-hour, everyone who turns from their evil, sinful, criminal ways of breaking God's Law, truly repents and returns to obeying God ONLY will LIVE.

Instead, "Christianity" invented its own "gospel" message of "Jesus did it for us, so we don't have to keep The Law/obey God only" which, unsurprisingly, is the exact opposite of Christ's actual teachings (Matt. 5:17-20). Of course we were warned about that too.

Galatians 1:3
1:3 Grace [be] to you and peace from God the Father, AND [from] our Lord Christ Jesus,
1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the Will of God and our (adopted) Father:
1:5 To Whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.
1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel (christianity):
1:7 Which is not another (because they "call" it christianity); but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the [True] gospel of Christ.

Anyone who reads the Bible should notice that is has one central and unchanging message running through it from cover-to-cover:

Obedience to God (Good/Truth) tends to LIFE and disobedience to God (Evil/sin) tends to death (Deut. 30:15-20). But it's up to each of us to SEEK THE TRUTH (free-will).

2 Thessalonians 2:3-12
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of The Destroyer (Lucifer - Satan);
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in The Temple of God, showing himself that he is God (the Holy Father).
2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2:7 For the mystery (Rev. 17:5) of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the [Sword of the] Spirit from his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness [of the enlightening] of his coming:
2:9 [Even the Wicked], whose coming is the work of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of The Truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong DELUSION, that they should believe a lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not The Truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Jesus made plenty of them (hundreds actually). Please see a few of those hundreds below (and many more within this thread if you're interested).

Here is where Christ, through the mouth of Jesus taught the disciples to pray. Please note well we are to pray to Father (God), NOT to the "trinity", and to hallow His Name ( NOT the pagan "trinity").

Matthew 6:9-15
6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name.
6:10 Thy Kingdom come. Thy Will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.
6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
6:12 And forgive us our debts and trespasses (if we truly repent), as we forgive our debtors and those who trespass against us (if they truly repent).
6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For Thine is The Kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

And here is where Christ, through the mouth of Jesus, told us that Father is His God and our God:

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, MY GOD, MY GOD, why hast Thou forsaken me? (Eno. 89:20; Psalm 22; Isaiah 52:13 to 54:1; Sura 4:157-8.)

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto MY FATHER, AND YOUR FATHER; AND [TO] MY GOD, AND YOUR GOD.

And again after the ascension, with Christ sitting at Father's Right Hand, in heaven:

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in The Temple of MY GOD, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of MY GOD, and the name of the city of MY GOD, [which is] New Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from MY GOD: and [I will write upon him] my NEW name.

It should be self-evident to any genuine truth-seeker that God cannot have a God, or He wouldn't be THE MOST HIGH GOD, by definition.

This list of plain truth statements by Christ can go on and on and on. And in truth it has already done exactly that throughout this thread, to assist those who have a genuine love for, and are actively seeking, the Truth.

Thank you for such a thorough and helpful response.

I will respond once I've had time to give your words the reflection they deserve, but wanted to make sure in the interim that you knew they were appreciated.

 

[A Freeman]

You're welcome.

 

[Steven Avery]

What has been pointed out is where the Roman Catholic church and its leaders have done exactly that, along with the irrefutable proof that they did it. They cannot hide the fact that the phrase they added to 1 John 5:7 (the "Johannine comma") is not in any of the original manuscripts, but was only added almost 1500 years later.

This claim is totally false.

Old Latin manuscripts contain the verse. That is a 2nd century line, and the extant mss. start around 500 AD.

Cyprian, with both Greek and Latin background, used the heavenly witnesses verse in his Unity of the Church.

Jerome pointed out how unfaithful scribes were omitting the verse.

Hundreds of bishops at the Council of Carthage of 484 utilized the verse in their apologetic.

And there is tons more.

... is only added almost 1500 years later. The same goes with Matthew 28:19, the story of the adulterous woman, etc.

Total absurdity.

 

[A Freeman]

This claim is totally false.

Old Latin manuscripts contain the verse. That is a 2nd century line, and the extant mss. start around 500 AD.

Cyprian, with both Greek and Latin background, used the heavenly witnesses verse in his Unity of the Church.

Jerome pointed out how unfaithful scribes were omitting the verse.

Hundreds of bishops at the Council of Carthage of 484 utilized the verse in their apologetic.

And there is tons more.

Total absurdity.

It's understood that upon first hearing this someone could have a knee-jerk reaction to it, as you have. However, what's been shared about these changes is an irrefutable fact, borne out by the evidence.

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannine_Comma

The Johannine Comma (Latin: Comma Johanneum) is an interpolated phrase in verses 5:7–8 of the First Epistle of John.[1] It became a touchpoint for Protestant and Catholic debates over the doctrine of the Trinity in the early modern period.

The passage first appeared as an addition to the Vulgate, the Ecclesiastical Latin translation of the Bible, and entered the Greek manuscript tradition in the 15th century.[2] It does not appear in the oldest Latin manuscripts, and appears to have originated as a gloss around the end of the 4th century.[3] Some scribes gradually incorporated this annotation into the main text over the course of the Middle Ages.

The first Greek manuscript of the New Testament that contains the comma dates from the 15th century. The comma is absent from some of the Ethiopic, Aramaic, Syriac, Slavic, Armenian, Georgian, and Arabic translations of the Greek New Testament. It appears in some English translations of the Bible via its inclusion in the first printed edition of the New Testament, Novum Instrumentum omne by Erasmus, where it first appeared in the 1522 third edition.

-------

Regarding the alterations made to Matthew 28:19 by the RCC, please see the previous post linked below:-

The Trinity Delusion

I believe in the Bible. All of it, in the language that God originally put it on. But don't misquote it, please: 3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. - 1 Samuel 15:3...

vigilantcitizenforums.com

God Bless.

 

[Steven Avery]

It's understood that upon first hearing this someone could have a knee-jerk reaction to it, as you have. However, what's been shared about these changes is an irrefutable fact, borne out by the evidence.

Regarding the alterations made to Matthew 28:19 ...

More nonsense.
You did not respond to anything I wrote. Why? You do not know the evidences.

And I am far more familiar with the evidences than you or the websites you use. And I actually wrote a lot of the material in the Wikipedia article, pretty much everything related to the early church writers. So I do not need or appreciate your petty insult attempts.

=======================

Here is where you can really learn about Matthew 28:19, including the many early church writers who used the traditional form in the Ante-Nicene era.

Matthew 28:19 - PBF - TOC
https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php?forums/matthew-28-19-authenticity.133/

Matthew 28:19 -Ante-Nicene referencing (before Eusebius) - the Ehrman textual criticism discussion
https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/matthew-28-19-ante-nicene-referencing-before-eusebius-the-ehrman-textual-criticism-discussion.983/

Matthew 28:19 - contras use shoddy scholarship, 'criminal 'citation techniques, plagiarism, unreferenced secondary sources
https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/matthew-28-19-contras-use-shoddy-scholarship-criminal-citation-techniques-plagiarism-unreferenced-secondary-sources.1025/

=======================

This is not a discussion about the "Trinity", it is simply a fact that you do not have a pure Bible, and try to corrupt the text to match your limited thinking.

 

[TokiEl]

More nonsense.
You did not respond to anything I wrote. Why? You do not know the evidences.

And I am far more familiar with the evidences than you or the websites you use. And I actually wrote a lot of the material in the Wikipedia article, pretty much everything related to the early church writers. So I do not need or appreciate your petty insult attempts.

He's a troll so no point talking to him.

 

[A Freeman]

It cannot be overstated that THERE IS NO 3=1 “TRINITY”, a nonsensical pagan construct that even the Roman Catholics admit lacks any scriptural support.

“Our opponents sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which is not explicitly stated in scripture … But the Protestant Churches have themselves accepted such dogmas, AS THE TRINITY, for which there is no such precise authority in the Gospels,” — (Assumption of Mary, Life magazine, Oct 30, 1950, p. 51)

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] MY GOD, and your God.

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father OF our Lord Christ the Saviour, Who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [things] in Christ:

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father OF our Lord Christ the Saviour, which according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us.