The Saudi Regime Is 2- Faced!

Allegra

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Which claim? That Jews will inherit the land God promised Abraham, or that Galatians 3 doesn't mean Israel has lost their covenant with God?
I'm sorry I only go by what Paul says in Romans and Galatians. Paul thinks sonship does not depend on physical descent.

Romans 9:6, 7 confirm this: "Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham just because they are descendants."

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to the promise.

Galatians 3:7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.

Romans 4:16-17
16 That is why it depends on faith, kin order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, 17 as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.

So about being Children of Abraham
1) It is not the same thing as being Jewish - Gentiles can be included;
2) it means being like Abraham, especially trusting the promises of God like Abraham did
3) it means inheriting the blessings promised to Abraham.

So I don't know about this 'physical' thing where in the bible esp in NT, God's promise to Abraham is divided between Physical and Spiritual.

Again, I don't know what's not clear about this verse.

"It is not as though the word of God has fallen. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel; and not all are children of Abraham just because they are his descendants; 'but through Isaac shall your descendants be named.' This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are reckoned as descendants." (Rom 9:6-8)
 

Thunderian

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I'm sorry I only go by what Paul says in Romans and Galatians. Paul thinks sonship does not depend on physical descent.


Paul is absolutely correct. I think you think I'm disagreeing with you, and I'm not.

Paul is saying that the true sons of Abraham are the Jews who believe in God. The mistake people make is thinking that means the Jews we know and love today aren't actually Israel, or that people like me think that the nation of Israel today is the fulfillment of God's promise of the land to Abraham's seed. Both these are wrong. Spiritual Israel can only come out of physical Israel, and physical Israel is being regathered in their promised land for God's judgement and redemption as we speak.

Paul writes in Romans 11:26 that one day, all Israel will be saved. He's not talking about some allegorical Israel. His words echo prophecies in the Old Testament about the final redemption of Abraham's descendants when they will turn as a people to God. God has always dealt with the Jews as one entity.

Ezekiel spoke of the dry bones of Israel coming back to life, and of a time when all Israel would turn back to God. Jeremiah, Isaiah, Zechariah and others spoke of the same thing. All of them prophesied that Israel would be gathered by God back into the land he promised them, and that they would turn to God as one nation, and never depart from him again. That's what Paul was talking about and that's when they will truly inherit the land promised to Abraham.

Obviously, the regathering has begun in earnest, and the reborn nation of Israel is undeniably prophecy fulfilled. The point at which they turn back to God as one nation is at least seven years in the future, and a lot has to happen before then, but this doesn't cast any doubt on the legitimacy of the physical nation of Israel today. That's probably another discussion, though.

Now, when people like John Piper come along and say that the Church has replaced Israel, it's hard for me to follow the logic, because Israel was promised a physical thing -- the land -- and believers are promised everything. Why would you want a patch of dirt when you can be a joint heir with Jesus Christ of everything? Literally every thing will be ours.

So who inherits the land Abraham was promised? The physical nation of Israel, having cast aside all the idols and false prophets they serve today. What does the Church inherit? Everything else.

So about being Children of Abraham
1) It is not the same thing as being Jewish - Gentiles can be included;
2) it means being like Abraham, especially trusting the promises of God like Abraham did
3) it means inheriting the blessings promised to Abraham.

So I don't know about this 'physical' thing where in the bible esp in NT, God's promise to Abraham is divided between Physical and Spiritual.
Yes, we can be spiritual descendants of Abraham by sharing the same faith he had in God. This does not make us Jews. Be careful of the Synagogue of Satan, which is those who say they are Jews and are not. It's not Israel. It's Christians who claim to be.
 

TokiEl

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If u dont care then I wont be bothered to answer you. :D
The Bible interprets itself.


Joshua 3 Then Joshua rose early in the morning; and they set out from Acacia Grove and came to the Jordan, he and all the children of Israel, and lodged there before they crossed over. 2 So it was, after three days, that the officers went through the camp; 3 and they commanded the people, saying, “When you see the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, and the priests, the Levites, bearing it, then you shall set out from your place and go after it. 4 Yet there shall be a space between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure. Do not come near it, that you may know the way by which you must go, for you have not passed this way before.

Hosea 6 Come, and let us return to the Lord;
For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.


Ezekiel 36 7 Therefore thus says the Lord God: “I have raised My hand in an oath that surely the nations that are around you shall bear their own shame. 8 But you, O mountains of Israel, you shall shoot forth your branches and yield your fruit to My people Israel, for they are about to come. 9 For indeed I am for you, and I will turn to you, and you shall be tilled and sown. 10 I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, all of it; and the cities shall be inhabited and the ruins rebuilt. 11 I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bear young; I will make you inhabited as in former times, and do better for you than at your beginnings. Then you shall know that I am the Lord. 12 Yes, I will cause men to walk on you, My people Israel; they shall take possession of you, and you shall be their inheritance; no more shall you bereave them of children.

Matthew 24 32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Luke 21 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.



These are just a few Bible prophecies which foretell the return and restoration of Israel after 2000 years.
 

Allegra

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Paul is absolutely correct. I think you think I'm disagreeing with you, and I'm not.

Paul is saying that the true sons of Abraham are the Jews who believe in God. The mistake people make is thinking that means the Jews we know and love today aren't actually Israel, or that people like me think that the nation of Israel today is the fulfillment of God's promise of the land to Abraham's seed. Both these are wrong. Spiritual Israel can only come out of physical Israel, and physical Israel is being regathered in their promised land for God's judgement and redemption as we speak.

Paul writes in Romans 11:26 that one day, all Israel will be saved. He's not talking about some allegorical Israel. His words echo prophecies in the Old Testament about the final redemption of Abraham's descendants when they will turn as a people to God. God has always dealt with the Jews as one entity.

Ezekiel spoke of the dry bones of Israel coming back to life, and of a time when all Israel would turn back to God. Jeremiah, Isaiah, Zechariah and others spoke of the same thing. All of them prophesied that Israel would be gathered by God back into the land he promised them, and that they would turn to God as one nation, and never depart from him again. That's what Paul was talking about and that's when they will truly inherit the land promised to Abraham.

Obviously, the regathering has begun in earnest, and the reborn nation of Israel is undeniably prophecy fulfilled. The point at which they turn back to God as one nation is at least seven years in the future, and a lot has to happen before then, but this doesn't cast any doubt on the legitimacy of the physical nation of Israel today. That's probably another discussion, though.

Now, when people like John Piper come along and say that the Church has replaced Israel, it's hard for me to follow the logic, because Israel was promised a physical thing -- the land -- and believers are promised everything. Why would you want a patch of dirt when you can be a joint heir with Jesus Christ of everything? Literally every thing will be ours.

So who inherits the land Abraham was promised? The physical nation of Israel, having cast aside all the idols and false prophets they serve today. What does the Church inherit? Everything else.



Yes, we can be spiritual descendants of Abraham by sharing the same faith he had in God. This does not make us Jews. Be careful of the Synagogue of Satan, which is those who say they are Jews and are not. It's not Israel. It's Christians who claim to be.
No one is denying that Israel is the God’s chosen people. Israel is always be the beloved.

I took this to prayer, and I believe the answer God gave me is this last night.

58A02594-28C7-40CC-A874-0C4F3BDCE54F.jpeg

I will always stay by the Spiritual Israel as Paul always emphasise.
About unrepentant physical Israel, I’m personally indifferent about them but whatever is happening to them I believe it is to fulfill God’s promises and prophecies.

"By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.
By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise.
For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God."
-‭‭Hebrews 11:8-10
 

TokiEl

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EXCLUSIVE: Saudi Arabia to execute three prominent moderate scholars after Ramadan

The treatment of Salman al-Odah, Awad al-Qarni and Ali al-Omari, all facing charges of 'terrorism', has been condemned by rights groups
Good news but why just three ? I'm sure there are many more terrorists no ?
 

DesertRose

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A softening of the blockade against Qatar may be in the works......
Qatar PM to attend Saudi Arabia summit
 
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DesertRose

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Unbelievable! These clown Princes are going to destroy themselves.
Saudi accused of ‘Judaising’ the Quran
A copy of the Qur'an that was translated to Hebrew and approved by Saudi authorities has more than 300 errors

UAE accused of forcing Sudanese to fight in war
 

DavidSon

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Unbelievable! These clown Princes are going to destroy themselves.
Saudi accused of ‘Judaising’ the Quran
A copy of the Qur'an that was translated to Hebrew and approved by Saudi authorities has more than 300 errors

UAE accused of forcing Sudanese to fight in war
I read that article this morning about the Hebrew translation, it's unbelievable they would attempt to put it out. It pretty much proves there's a higher power- the fact the impure cannot stop themselves from further wrong action.

The story of the Sudanese being misled into becoming troops reminds me of the question of the real numbers of US fighters in the ME. We have no idea of the actual numbers of private mercenaries.

What do you think about the Saudi press release saying they wouldn't be funding Mosques in foreign countries? I know they decided last year to open up shares in Aramco (?) which was unprecedented. One analyst said that despite their wealth the UAE is a bit "cash-strapped." Is the de-funding of Mosques an economic decision or for political/cultural reasons?
 
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Unbelievable! These clown Princes are going to destroy themselves.
Saudi accused of ‘Judaising’ the Quran
A copy of the Qur'an that was translated to Hebrew and approved by Saudi authorities has more than 300 errors

UAE accused of forcing Sudanese to fight in war
a number of which appearing to support Israel’s narrative over its claim to Palestine and Al-Aqsa Mosque.
Amongst the most serious errors, discovered by the Palestinian news agency Shehab, is the omission of the name of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), who is mentioned at least four times in the Muslim holy text. Equally serious is the translation of Al-Aqsa Mosque to “The Temple” which is the Jewish name for the Muslim holy site.

The Hebrew translation contains a parenthesis alongside the translation of Al-Aqsa Mosque to “The Temple” in which it is stated that it is the same place as where the temple of Prophet Suleiman (pbuh) is located



i dont know which verses this refers to or how they've been translated. however it is always the case with translations.
For me, surah 17 does support israel..upto a certain point.
Allah says HE could show Mercy to the Jews anytime He wants..
8.It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, and if you again return (to disobedience) We too will return (to punishment), and We have made hell a prison for the unbelievers.

in the context, at that time, the jews had established a sassanian-jewish commonwealth state in Jerusalem...and Allah is telling them
However it also warns them that if they're sinful He will punish them like before (eg the destruction of the temple/jerusalem in the past).
These contexts have no timeline, Allah could show Mercy to the jews anytime He wants, eg the last century. He could also punish them again if they're sinful.
Verse 103 is also a reference to messianic israel, but in the muslim context we believe that to be during the age of Isa AS.
Still the end meaning is the same, it will be a land FOR bani israel. However that also opens up the question of who bani israel eg the lost tribes are..
and there's a high chance most of them are muslims, in fact it is more than likely the majority of them merged into lands that later became muslim anyway. many are now persian, arab and even pakistani, afghan etc.

for example, the tribe Napthalites, are said to have become White huns, the hephthalites. They conquered land from central asia to north india..and many of them merged into india. So there's a strong theory that as they merged into india and hinduism, they became rajputs.
now, im rajput..and i dont give a shit about belonging to 'israel' in that type of sense, but i find the possibility of this being true quiet fascinating. There are millions of rajputs..the pakistani army is dominated by rajputs and pashtun. The pashtun most def are a lost tribe of israel. the rajputs were the first major converts to islam in india...and they became muslim through sufis btw, not under the sword.
It makes it even more interesting when we're dealing with a war between pakistan and india, given modern israel has and will help india..in a fight for kashmir, where also lost tribes of israel live (on the pakistani side in particular).
imran khan is pashtun


Going back to the topic again.
The temple..
the temple mount itself IS the al aqsa. there was no structure on top of the temple mount when the prophet SAW prayed there.
Not sure how the saudis have worded this in a past context though because Surah 17 does reference the destruction of the jewish temple.

where it says this
7.If you do good, you will do good for your own souls, and if you do evil, it shall be for them. So when the second promise came (We raised another people) that they may bring you to grief and that they may enter the mosque as they entered it the first time, and that they might destroy whatever they gained ascendancy over with utter destruction.

in the transliteration it reads like this

7.In ahsantum ahsantum lianfusikum wain asatum falaha faitha jaa waAAdu alakhirati liyasoooo wujoohakum waliyadkhuloo almasjida kama dakhaloohu awwala marratin waliyutabbiroo ma AAalaw tatbeeran

yet In the context, that was the 'the second temple'. The Bayt al maqdis or Bēt HaMīqdaš in hebrew which means House of the Holy
 

TempestOfTempo

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DesertRose

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I read that article this morning about the Hebrew translation, it's unbelievable they would attempt to put it out. It pretty much proves there's a higher power- the fact the impure cannot stop themselves from further wrong action.
Excellent point. As Chris hedges puts it the good attracts the good and we can say the opposite maxim is true as well.
What do you think about the Saudi press release saying they wouldn't be funding Mosques in foreign countries? I
When you visit their countries you can now see how cash strapped their state coffers are becoming, plus their citizens now lament about the good old days when they used to get many freebies. Perhaps the killing of innocents and the many injustices they perpetrate is having a negative impact on them. So I vote for primarily economic because they would not give up the little influence they had voluntarily.
 

DesertRose

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Saudi Bans Hajj But Encourages Foreign Tourism for Entertainment, Music
Saudi Arabia announced Saturday this year’s hajj pilgrimage will be limited to no more than 60,000 people, all of them from within the kingdom, due to the ongoing coronavirus pandemic.
The announcement by the kingdom comes after it ran an incredibly pared-down pilgrimage last year over the virus, but still allowed a small number of the faithful to take part in the annual ceremony.
A statement on the state-run Saudi Press Agency quoted the kingdom’s Hajj and Umrah Ministry making the announcement. It said this year’s hajj, which will begin in mid-July, will be limited to those ages 18 to 65.
Those taking part must be vaccinated as well, the ministry said.
and

"Saudi tourism and entertainment seasons are set to return in the fourth quarter of 2021 with more excitement and larger-scale events, Visit Saudi by Tourism Authority announced on Sunday."
 

Daze

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The hadith speaks of the hajj being abandoned. Perhaps this is where it begins.

While this prophecy is certain to be fulfilled at some point, like all of the others before it, many will remain headless.
 

Vision

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