Should we declare gods public enemy # 1.? Do you understand why we call immoral gods, “Gods”?

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#41
I don't know what authorities are in charge of your nation @Futility

In the UK, our media isn't pushing out the message below that offended GCB:

1 John 2:15

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."
Without a bit of lust, you would not be here. If only that were so for you and your ilk, --- whom have slowed down man's moral progress.

Regards
DL
 





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#43
I do know realise why a religious congregation is sometimes known as a flock.
I guess you have to question who is the wiser though, people who follow the ideas of other people or their own compass, or those who think people don't have all the answers and look beyond them.

GCB has yet to address questions on how he fits the miraculous or the prophetic into his worldview. The Bible and experience indicate both are true so just what a materialist does with such information intrigues me.
 





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#44
Why has your God not prevented this from happening?
My god is quite busy working on the belligerent brain dead theists. Trust me on this, as my God's name is I am.

Gnostic Christians put man above God. This is the only honest way of recognizing that we people created all the gods.

My focus is morals and you have likely seen how most theists run from any moral discussions, to the point of saying God can morally murder us as he created us and owns us.

That is how morally brain dead some theists are.

Regards
DL
 





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#45
Indeed, the Jesus of the fundies is spelled Je$u$ Chri$t
I see nothing wrong with your spelling.

Post 33 has a link showing the Pope saying that we cannot have a God unless we pay his church. He says it without mentioning tithes but we all know what the church lives for and what their words actually mean.

Protecting p***phile priests and all that air fare tp move them about costs a lot.

Regards
DL
 





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#46
My god is quite busy working on the belligerent brain dead theists. Trust me on this, as my God's name is I am.

Gnostic Christians put man above God. This is the only honest way of recognizing that we people created all the gods.

My focus is morals and you have likely seen how most theists run from any moral discussions, to the point of saying God can morally murder us as he created us and owns us.

That is how morally brain dead some theists are.

Regards
DL

Invictus

By WILLIAM ERNEST HENLEY

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate,
I am the captain of my soul.


I don't agree with the sentiments abovebin the slightest but I thought it might help you realise I understand the philosophy you promote, @Gnostic Christian Bishop

invictus_games_foundation_logo (2).png
 





Futility

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#47
I see nothing wrong with your spelling.

Post 33 has a link showing the Pope saying that we cannot have a God unless we pay his church. He says it without mentioning tithes but we all know what the church lives for and what their words actually mean.

Protecting p***phile priests and all that air fare tp move them about costs a lot.

Regards
DL
Or Joel Osteens quarter of a million a night in tax free donations, or TBN "desperate? We can save your soul address check too"
 





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#48
I guess you have to question who is the wiser though, people who follow the ideas of other people or their own compass, or those who think people don't have all the answers and look beyond them.

GCB has yet to address questions on how he fits the miraculous or the prophetic into his worldview. The Bible and experience indicate both are true so just what a materialist does with such information intrigues me.
To your first.
I follow your bibles thinking while you do not, giving credence to those who say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Gen3;22 Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowinggood and evil;

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; evenas a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Your book says that genocide and the murder of innocent children and babies by your God is moral.

Apply your common sense and tell us if it is correct or not.

I think it is quite immoral and so is your God, so if you do not agree, then do the loving thing and correct me with a decent argument or be seen for the immoral person you are.

To your last.
"The Bible and experience indicate both are true".

You are a liar as the bible is a book of myths and worthless as a judge of these things and Jesus prophesied the end of gays to be in the apostles lifetime.

Stop your incessant lying as it shows you you are lying to yourself.

Regards
DL
 





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#49
You have been reading what the Christians said of our beliefs while ignoring what we wrote. You forget that Christians had to justify their Inquisitions somehow and lying was the best way for them to do so.

Read the following and tell me who seems to think that the world is cursed, according to what is written.

-----------

The Christian view.

1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

-----------

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.

"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL

That question you asked
"what do you see around you"
is actually a question i have asked people before, when demonstrating God's Immanence in the world. In islam this aspect of faith is called Ihsan.
i have repeated it often on here, so i don't think a lot seperates us in that regard.

However one of the views held by muslim sufis goes a little deeper.
the world within is akin to the 'garden' which the parable of the sower also describes, but the Quran details in the descriptions of paradise. it is within us and a world we will witness in the next. The terminology used ie trees, fruits, flowing streams are symbolic of the inner self for example the 'floweing streams of water' representing the free flowing etheric/pranic energy body wheras if it wasnt free flowing it would be blocked..
it's like kundalini energy as the fountain of life.
the objective is on one hand, to worship/seek the light akin to how plants grow towards the direction of light.
Similarly some plants grow in dark conditions and some suffer in dark conditions, the soil also represents our subconscious conditioning
However the main objective is to obtain these 'fruits' that represent the 'good'. We receive those fruits in the metaphysical but we see their shadow in the physical. Now ask yourself why some things are small but their shadow appears large, it's because the light is 'low'
and when the light is strong the shadow is small, ie the good suffer in this world and appear to posess very little.
However at the same time it might be that someone receives some of this 'fruit' to such a degree in the metaphysical that even when it's shadow is 'small' in comparison to the fruit, it is still far larger than every other shadow..
and similarly some trees take many years to grow and produce fruit but when they do, it is far superior in quality to others.

Are you with me?
so we see people appear very rich but all that wealth gives them very little internally ie the fruit is small but the shadow is large.
in there hereafter we will witness the 'garden' for what it is, but i don't take paradise literally ie a big 'garden'. For all i know each fruit we taste in the next life might be an entire life experience or we might become more than just human type intelligent beings and more like universal mind's in our own right, Allah knows best.


Aside from all that, whether we think of the fruit or their shadow, suppose God tests us or we experience loss of fruit in this world, would it matter to a tree that seeks out the light? Think about it...
there is a hindu advaita vedanta quote
"the tree laden with the most fruit, lowers itself for others to enjoy"

the point is our perception of what is good for us or what is moral or immoral is something we can't appreciate unless we can grasp all manner of things.
The God who teaches us all the above and also tells us this world is a test and reminds us that it's what we're built inside us that we will witness in the hereafter, can't be 'false'.

As for gnosticism, ive talked to you and others a fair few times online, you believe the demi-urge created the physical universe and believe Yahweh or Allah is the demiurge.
in hinduism, there are 2 mayas, the first one that seperates us from the universal consciousness and causes us to experience our individual self within multiplicity and the second one that confuses the material world for 'real' inplace of the immaterial.
Since the Quran openly reminds us of the illusion of the physical world ie the shadow, then it's clearly teaching something 'beyond' the lower aspect of maya.
As for the higher, islam also teaches Unity of consciousness
ie
We belong to God and to Him we shall return
i guess you've not understood islam yet.
 





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#50
Invictus

By WILLIAM ERNEST HENLEY

Out of the night that covers me,

Black as the pit from pole to pole,

I thank whatever gods may be

For my unconquerable soul.


In the fell clutch of circumstance

I have not winced nor cried aloud.

Under the bludgeonings of chance

My head is bloody, but unbowed.


Beyond this place of wrath and tears

Looms but the Horror of the shade,

And yet the menace of the years

Finds and shall find me unafraid.


It matters not how strait the gate,

How charged with punishments the scroll,

I am the master of my fate,

I am the captain of my soul.


I don't agree with the sentiments abovebin the slightest but I thought it might help you realise I understand the philosophy you promote, @Gnostic Christian Bishop

View attachment 14132
Thanks. Now can you take the truth of yours?

"Whoever imagines himself a favorite with God,
holds other people in contempt.
Whenever a man believes that he has the exact truth from God,
there is in that man no spirit of compromise.
He has not the modesty born of the imperfections of human nature;
he has the arrogance of theological certainty and the tyranny born of ignorant assurance.
Believing himself to be the slave of God,
he imitates his master,
and of all tyrants,
the worst is a slave in power."
--Robert Ingersoll


Regards
DL
 





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#51
Faith based delusional thinking.

suppose God tests us or we experience loss of fruit in this world
Then your all knowing God would be a fool to test when he would already know the results.

the point is our perception of what is good for us or what is moral or immoral is something we can't appreciate unless we can grasp all manner of things.
What do you lack when your own God said we, through A & E of course, know good and evil?

What do you not grasp of good and or evil concepts?

The God who teaches us all the above and also tells us this world is a test and reminds us that it's what we're built inside us that we will witness in the hereafter, can't be 'false'.
Right, so why do you need a God to do your thinking for you when you say that that knowledge is "inside" you?

As for gnosticism, ive talked to you and others a fair few times online, you believe the demi-urge created the physical universe and believe Yahweh or Allah is the demiurge.
You have been speaking to false Gnostic Christians then who do not understand their religion. We have no supernatural beliefs and think as the intelligent ancients did before Christianity and Islam reared their ugly literal reading of myths heads.

Have a look. I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental trash that modern preachers and theists are using with he literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said thatwhen asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg,said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to yourneighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, goand study it."

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greekcommentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take thesetexts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put thesesort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would havethem do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Since the Quran openly reminds us of the illusion of the physical world ie the shadow, then it's clearly teaching something 'beyond' the lower aspect of maya.
The bible also alludes to the illusions that it gives and warns us to use our own thinking and not the thinking of corrupted prophets, traditions and fashions.

If your Qur'an does not tell you, like the bible does, to get out of your holy book if you want to find wisdom, then it is delinquent in it's wisdom and direction of thought.

i guess you've not understood islam yet.
I do understand much of it.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/theft-values/


Humanity centered religions, good? Yes. Esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Christianity being the best of these.

Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes. Islam and Christianity being the worst of these.

Do you understand Islam?

Regards
DL
 





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#52
Faith based delusional thinking.



Then your all knowing God would be a fool to test when he would already know the results.



What do you lack when your own God said we, through A & E of course, know good and evil?

What do you not grasp of good and or evil concepts?



Right, so why do you need a God to do your thinking for you when you say that that knowledge is "inside" you?



You have been speaking to false Gnostic Christians then who do not understand their religion. We have no supernatural beliefs and think as the intelligent ancients did before Christianity and Islam reared their ugly literal reading of myths heads.

Have a look. I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental trash that modern preachers and theists are using with he literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said thatwhen asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg,said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to yourneighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, goand study it."

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greekcommentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take thesetexts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put thesesort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would havethem do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.



The bible also alludes to the illusions that it gives and warns us to use our own thinking and not the thinking of corrupted prophets, traditions and fashions.

If your Qur'an does not tell you, like the bible does, to get out of your holy book if you want to find wisdom, then it is delinquent in it's wisdom and direction of thought.



I do understand much of it.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/theft-values/


Humanity centered religions, good? Yes. Esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Christianity being the best of these.

Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes. Islam and Christianity being the worst of these.

Do you understand Islam?

Regards
DL
"Faith based delusional thinking."
isn't the true God 'All-knowing'?
and since Allah means God, in my mind i'm talking about THE All-knowing.

You're thinking in lesser terms of a collective muslim God without taking into account islamic tawheed which clearly defines God as the Absolute, All-knowing etc.

However each of us also project a more personal aspect of God reflective of our own ideals and sense of right/wrong...and then there's the collective personal aspect of God, which ive often said is a 'collective thoughtform' and 'not really God'
so i'm aware of that aspect too.
So suppose most muslims are evil and ignorance, then it also means collectively we're projecting a thoughtform of God that is, very far from the ideal of what God is. that only reflects in our own flaws and it means as a whole religion we are judged by it.
The Quran tells us Allah will judge as for it. Even when you read the verse in my sig it suggests clearly God will judge each nation accordingly.


"Then your all knowing God would be a fool to test when he would already know the results."
Thank you, you're gradually showing me how inept you are at this 'game' shall we say. keep in mind im treating you as a gnostic who would think of the All-knowing as your God also.
So i suppose you don't believe in the All-knowing idea at all...no worries...let me look at what you've said

would be a fool to test when he would already know the results.
the reason this is inept is because this topic is done to death, it is the whole topic of freewill vs destiny.
Yes the Absolute knows All things, eternally...just as it says the Word was with God and the Word IS God...
This is the aspect of God's Immanence that seeks seperation from unit, in order to bring individual consciousness and bring ignorance.
it isn't about God testing us for His own amusement, it is the nature of consciousness itself to be expressed.....and descending states of consciousness, from unity to multiplicity and into darkness is all part of God's expression...
All things come from Him and return to Him
as it is in Hinduism, brama and shiva, or as i regularly talk about, passive/active or yin/yang.

It's a bit like if you wrote the code to a vast program containing artificially intelligent characters with flaws in them where they fix/improve themselves by manipulating the source code.
even if you know all the possible permutations beforehand, the characters themselves don't.


You have been speaking to false Gnostic Christians then who do not understand their religion. We have no supernatural beliefs and think as the intelligent ancients did before Christianity and Islam reared their ugly literal reading of myths heads.
no ive spoken to self proclaimed gnostics just as im talking to you and ive read various gnostic texts..
they are essentially just a little different to mainstream christianity.
quit trying to be something you're not.
IF you're gnostic, tell me about my life, shit you can tell me in private if you like
a true gnostic of the ultimate reality or God or just life itself, would be capable of that.
you're just fooling yourself.



What you've written later, upto
If your Qur'an does not tell you, like the bible does, to get out of your holy book if you want to find wisdom, then it is delinquent in it's wisdom and direction of thought.
is just random drivel that you've conjured up, that sounds like it has meaning, but doesn't

effectively all you've done is said
'if your book tells you to follow it, then it is stupid but it needs to tellz u to do ur own wizdumbz'

lol..you're just saying shit that has no relevance to me and what ive said to you. i've talked about the deeper meaning of various parables and similies in the Quran to describe heaven/the inner self and ultimately the physical world in relation to it.

You've told me 'no i believe heaven is everywhere, in me, whatever i want it to be'
and im like 'no gnostics don't believe that'
ive read gnostic texts...and ive also delved deeper on what the reality of the physical world in comparison to the immaterial.
Oh the Quran tells us Allah gave the Scripture AND the Wisdom, so yes it is important to understand both with wisdom, ironic you're hating those who read scripture without wisdom, yet you're judging scripture without highlighting the wisdom aspect of it, ie you're the one taking it literally as/when it suits you and then condemning it.


Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

hence
"but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;"

im a muslimand are you even aware of how i approach the topic of homosexuality or misogyny or feminazism?
As for secular law, mate, only 70 years ago it was perfectly agreeable to watch black people get lynched and that was most post-enlightenment.
one day it might be considered immoral to crack an egg.
I suppose if humans are developing it is actually good.
I don't believe in following religion blindly, as i said, 'scripture AND wisdom' so for me inc with homosexuality, i like to understand the cause and then question whether there is a spiritual solution
if there is one but it is unfeasible in present conditions then id rather just get along with life.
there is an overall larger understanding of metaphysics here too which is too lengthy to get into.




Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

ok so muslims and christians are bad, therefore the religion is wrong?
Jesus called the pharisees, hypocrites
he didnt say 'judaism is so evil and you are proof'

if you can't even grasp this basic point yourself before you spout nonsense you're clearly out of your depth and only responding from raw emotion and not sound logic and understanding.


Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.
you're about as gnostic as i am superman. as i said you are not gnostic
is your heart pure enough to reflect the light? if it is, then anything you concentrate on you can attain gnosis of, provided your heart is clean.....
if not, then you are not a true gnostic and basing your judgement off mere whims/desires and thoughts that are easily manipulated and subject to change at any turn of emotion.

Humanity centered religions, good? Yes. Esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Christianity being the best of these.
Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes. Islam and Christianity being the worst of these.


that is like saying
"gay friendly, estoreic terrorism free gnosis islam"
let's just make it up as we go along.
if anything gnosticism is more supernaturally based than even christianity.
you believe in a demiurge, archons and what not, not merely as the opposition but as the creators of the physical world
you far more supernatural than us lmao.


lol dude don't link me to Sadhguru, represent your own religion. i know more about hinduism than you.



Do you understand Islam?

no, i don't even know what that is.
 





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#53
Thanks. Now can you take the truth of yours?

"Whoever imagines himself a favorite with God,
holds other people in contempt.
Whenever a man believes that he has the exact truth from God,
there is in that man no spirit of compromise.
He has not the modesty born of the imperfections of human nature;
he has the arrogance of theological certainty and the tyranny born of ignorant assurance.
Believing himself to be the slave of God,
he imitates his master,
and of all tyrants,
the worst is a slave in power."
--Robert Ingersoll


Regards
DL
Robert Ingersoll is an interesting character...

"Suppose after all that death does end all. Next to eternal joy, next to being forever with those we love and those who have loved us, next to that, is to be wrapt in the dreamless drapery of eternal peace. Next to eternal life is eternal sleep.​
Upon the shadowy shore of death the sea of trouble casts no wave. Eyes that have been curtained by the everlasting dark, will never know again the burning touch of tears. Lips touched by eternal silence will never speak again the broken words of grief. Hearts of dust do not break. The dead do not weep. Within the tomb no veiled and weeping sorrow sits, and in the rayless gloom is crouched no shuddering fear.​
I had rather think of those I have loved, and lost, as having returned to earth, as having become a part of the elemental wealth of the world – I would rather think of them as unconscious dust, I would rather dream of them as gurgling in the streams, floating in the clouds, bursting in the foam of light upon the shores of worlds, I would rather think of them as the lost visions of a forgotten night, than to have even the faintest fear that their naked souls have been clutched by an orthodox god.​
I will leave my dead where nature leaves them. Whatever flower of hope springs up in my heart I will cherish, I will give it breath of sighs and rain of tears. But I cannot believe that there is any being in this universe who has created a human soul for eternal pain. I would rather that every god would destroy himself; I would rather that we all should go to eternal chaos, to black and starless night, than that just one soul should suffer eternal agony.​
I have made up my mind that if there is a God, he will be merciful to the merciful.​
Upon that rock I stand. –​
That he will not torture the forgiving. –​
Upon that rock I stand. –​
That every man should be true to himself, and that there is no world, no star, in which honesty is a crime.​
Upon that rock I stand.​
The honest man, the good woman, the happy child, have nothing to fear, either in this world or the world to come.​
Upon that rock I stand."​
Robert G. Ingersoll

Now, "suppose" that Robert has composed a narrative of "the way things are" that differs from how things really are, it he, standing on the rock of his own opinion who will find he has built his house on sand.
 





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#54
The writings of various atheists at the end of their lives is both very sad and very enlightening...

"Life is a narrow vale between the cold and barren peaks of two eternities. We strive in vain to look beyond the heights. We cry aloud, and the only answer is the echo of our wailing cry. "
~ Robert Ingersoll

"There is no way out or round or through."
~ H.G. Wells, Mind At The End Of Its Tether

"A myriad of men are born; they labor and sweat and struggle for bread; they squabble and scold and fight; they scramble for little mean advantages over each other. Age creeps upon them; infirmities follow; shames and humiliations bring down their prides and their vanities. Those they love are taken from them and the joy of life is turned to aching grief. The burden of pain, care, misery, grows heavier year by year. At length ambition is dead; pride is dead; vanity is dead; longing for release is in their place. It comes at last - the only unpoisoned gift ever had for them - and they vanish from a world where they were of no consequence; where they achieved nothing; where they were a mistake and a failure and a foolishness; where they have left no sign that have existed - a world which will lament them a day and forget them forever. Then another myriad takes their place and copies all they did and goes along the same profitless road and vanishes as they vanished - to make room for another and another and a million other myriads to follow the same arid path through the same desert and accomplish what the first myriad and all the myriads that came after it accomplished - nothing!"
~Mark Twain, The Autobiography of Mark Twain

"I wish I had never been born"
~Voltaire
 





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#55
Robert Ingersoll is an interesting character...

"Suppose after all that death does end all. Next to eternal joy, next to being forever with those we love and those who have loved us, next to that, is to be wrapt in the dreamless drapery of eternal peace. Next to eternal life is eternal sleep.​


Upon the shadowy shore of death the sea of trouble casts no wave. Eyes that have been curtained by the everlasting dark, will never know again the burning touch of tears. Lips touched by eternal silence will never speak again the broken words of grief. Hearts of dust do not break. The dead do not weep. Within the tomb no veiled and weeping sorrow sits, and in the rayless gloom is crouched no shuddering fear.​


I had rather think of those I have loved, and lost, as having returned to earth, as having become a part of the elemental wealth of the world – I would rather think of them as unconscious dust, I would rather dream of them as gurgling in the streams, floating in the clouds, bursting in the foam of light upon the shores of worlds, I would rather think of them as the lost visions of a forgotten night, than to have even the faintest fear that their naked souls have been clutched by an orthodox god.​


I will leave my dead where nature leaves them. Whatever flower of hope springs up in my heart I will cherish, I will give it breath of sighs and rain of tears. But I cannot believe that there is any being in this universe who has created a human soul for eternal pain. I would rather that every god would destroy himself; I would rather that we all should go to eternal chaos, to black and starless night, than that just one soul should suffer eternal agony.​


I have made up my mind that if there is a God, he will be merciful to the merciful.​

Upon that rock I stand. –​


That he will not torture the forgiving. –​

Upon that rock I stand. –​


That every man should be true to himself, and that there is no world, no star, in which honesty is a crime.​

Upon that rock I stand.​


The honest man, the good woman, the happy child, have nothing to fear, either in this world or the world to come.​

Upon that rock I stand."​

Robert G. Ingersoll

Now, "suppose" that Robert has composed a narrative of "the way things are" that differs from how things really are, it he, standing on the rock of his own opinion who will find he has built his house on sand.
That is why religions are phasing out. They are built on immoral gods and supernatural garbage that more are recognizing as just that. Not the dummies though.

Regards
DL
 





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#56
"Faith based delusional thinking."
isn't the true God 'All-knowing'?
and since Allah means God, in my mind i'm talking about THE All-knowing.

You're thinking in lesser terms of a collective muslim God without taking into account islamic tawheed which clearly defines God as the Absolute, All-knowing etc.

However each of us also project a more personal aspect of God reflective of our own ideals and sense of right/wrong...and then there's the collective personal aspect of God, which ive often said is a 'collective thoughtform' and 'not really God'
so i'm aware of that aspect too.
So suppose most muslims are evil and ignorance, then it also means collectively we're projecting a thoughtform of God that is, very far from the ideal of what God is. that only reflects in our own flaws and it means as a whole religion we are judged by it.
The Quran tells us Allah will judge as for it. Even when you read the verse in my sig it suggests clearly God will judge each nation accordingly.


"Then your all knowing God would be a fool to test when he would already know the results."
Thank you, you're gradually showing me how inept you are at this 'game' shall we say. keep in mind im treating you as a gnostic who would think of the All-knowing as your God also.
So i suppose you don't believe in the All-knowing idea at all...no worries...let me look at what you've said

would be a fool to test when he would already know the results.
the reason this is inept is because this topic is done to death, it is the whole topic of freewill vs destiny.
Yes the Absolute knows All things, eternally...just as it says the Word was with God and the Word IS God...
This is the aspect of God's Immanence that seeks seperation from unit, in order to bring individual consciousness and bring ignorance.
it isn't about God testing us for His own amusement, it is the nature of consciousness itself to be expressed.....and descending states of consciousness, from unity to multiplicity and into darkness is all part of God's expression...
All things come from Him and return to Him
as it is in Hinduism, brama and shiva, or as i regularly talk about, passive/active or yin/yang.

It's a bit like if you wrote the code to a vast program containing artificially intelligent characters with flaws in them where they fix/improve themselves by manipulating the source code.
even if you know all the possible permutations beforehand, the characters themselves don't.


You have been speaking to false Gnostic Christians then who do not understand their religion. We have no supernatural beliefs and think as the intelligent ancients did before Christianity and Islam reared their ugly literal reading of myths heads.
no ive spoken to self proclaimed gnostics just as im talking to you and ive read various gnostic texts..
they are essentially just a little different to mainstream christianity.
quit trying to be something you're not.
IF you're gnostic, tell me about my life, shit you can tell me in private if you like
a true gnostic of the ultimate reality or God or just life itself, would be capable of that.
you're just fooling yourself.



What you've written later, upto
If your Qur'an does not tell you, like the bible does, to get out of your holy book if you want to find wisdom, then it is delinquent in it's wisdom and direction of thought.
is just random drivel that you've conjured up, that sounds like it has meaning, but doesn't

effectively all you've done is said
'if your book tells you to follow it, then it is stupid but it needs to tellz u to do ur own wizdumbz'

lol..you're just saying shit that has no relevance to me and what ive said to you. i've talked about the deeper meaning of various parables and similies in the Quran to describe heaven/the inner self and ultimately the physical world in relation to it.

You've told me 'no i believe heaven is everywhere, in me, whatever i want it to be'
and im like 'no gnostics don't believe that'
ive read gnostic texts...and ive also delved deeper on what the reality of the physical world in comparison to the immaterial.
Oh the Quran tells us Allah gave the Scripture AND the Wisdom, so yes it is important to understand both with wisdom, ironic you're hating those who read scripture without wisdom, yet you're judging scripture without highlighting the wisdom aspect of it, ie you're the one taking it literally as/when it suits you and then condemning it.


Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

hence
"but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;"

im a muslimand are you even aware of how i approach the topic of homosexuality or misogyny or feminazism?
As for secular law, mate, only 70 years ago it was perfectly agreeable to watch black people get lynched and that was most post-enlightenment.
one day it might be considered immoral to crack an egg.
I suppose if humans are developing it is actually good.
I don't believe in following religion blindly, as i said, 'scripture AND wisdom' so for me inc with homosexuality, i like to understand the cause and then question whether there is a spiritual solution
if there is one but it is unfeasible in present conditions then id rather just get along with life.
there is an overall larger understanding of metaphysics here too which is too lengthy to get into.




Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.
ok so muslims and christians are bad, therefore the religion is wrong?
Jesus called the pharisees, hypocrites
he didnt say 'judaism is so evil and you are proof'

if you can't even grasp this basic point yourself before you spout nonsense you're clearly out of your depth and only responding from raw emotion and not sound logic and understanding.


Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.
you're about as gnostic as i am superman. as i said you are not gnostic
is your heart pure enough to reflect the light? if it is, then anything you concentrate on you can attain gnosis of, provided your heart is clean.....
if not, then you are not a true gnostic and basing your judgement off mere whims/desires and thoughts that are easily manipulated and subject to change at any turn of emotion.

Humanity centered religions, good? Yes. Esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Christianity being the best of these.
Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes. Islam and Christianity being the worst of these.


that is like saying
"gay friendly, estoreic terrorism free gnosis islam"
let's just make it up as we go along.
if anything gnosticism is more supernaturally based than even christianity.
you believe in a demiurge, archons and what not, not merely as the opposition but as the creators of the physical world
you far more supernatural than us lmao.


lol dude don't link me to Sadhguru, represent your own religion. i know more about hinduism than you.



Do you understand Islam?
no, i don't even know what that is.
You are too big of an idiot for me to bother with.

Regards
DL
 





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#58
Isnt it interesting how fundie Jesus has a habit of saying what the authorities want you to hear?
Pfffft.
The authorities dont want you to hear anything of the kind. It is not permitted anywhere public funding is used. Unless of course Satan is permitted, as well.

 





Futility

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#59
Pfffft.
The authorities dont want you to hear anything of the kind. It is not permitted anywhere public funding is used. Unless of course Satan is permitted, as well.

Actually Christian iconography litters a lot of public spaces and The Temple of Satan was just trying to make a point.

Regardless I didn't just mean government authorities, but church authorities.

Also let's not forget that just a couple months ago the Trump regime was using Romans 13 to justify child stealing.
 





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#60
I don't think Gods should be public enemy number 1. In my favorite school of Gnosticism, the demiurge isn't good or evil. It is the head of the psychic world. Virtually perfect in its ability to rule over matter. But is basically a crybaby about some perceived imperfection. It knows it's just an animal spirit.

What I'm saying is these types of demigods aren't purely spiritual. Like God is actually supposed to be. So in this specific Gnostic cult followers are given 3 options. You can be materialistic and burn in the fires of your own grossness. Or you can embrace the animal spirit and hang out in the psychic world with the demiurge. The last and best choice is to choose to be a pure spirit.

Only the purely spiritual person can be freed from these tombs we call "bodies".