Should Christians return to the Law of Moses?

[Red Sky at Morning]

So in that sense I don't think Christians are necessarily following a "foreign" idol, more simply it's a revised concept of the OT God.

Really??

Do you believe that who God is might turn out to be different that who people believe Him to be?

Jesus Explains the Prophecies

25Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 26Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 27And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

In a sense, @DavidSon you are right that who some of the Jews in the OT perceived God to be is different from the God revealed through Jesus, but as you read the OT in the light of the New, you can see that the discrepancy is in the perception, not the substance.

Consider the gap between Israel's understanding of "their" God and the nature of God that comes out in this Psalm....

Psalms 81:1-16

1 An Appeal for Israel’s Repentance
Sing aloud to God our strength;
Make a joyful shout to the God of Jacob.
2 Raise a song and strike the timbrel,
The pleasant harp with the lute.
3 Blow the trumpet at the time of the New Moon,
At the full moon, on our solemn feast day.
4 For this is a statute for Israel,
A law of the God of Jacob.
5 This He established in Joseph as a testimony,
When He went throughout the land of Egypt,
Where I heard a language I did not understand.
6 “I removed his shoulder from the burden;
His hands were freed from the baskets.
7 You called in trouble, and I delivered you;
I answered you in the secret place of thunder;
I tested you at the waters of Meribah.
Selah
8 “Hear, O My people, and I will admonish you!
O Israel, if you will listen to Me!
9 There shall be no foreign god among you;
Nor shall you worship any foreign god.
10 I am the Lord your God,
Who brought you out of the land of Egypt;
Open your mouth wide, and I will fill it.
11 “But My people would not heed My voice,
And Israel would have none of Me.
12 So I gave them over to their own stubborn heart,
To walk in their own counsels.
13 “Oh, that My people would listen to Me,
That Israel would walk in My ways!
14 I would soon subdue their enemies,
And turn My hand against their adversaries.
15 The haters of the Lord would pretend submission to Him,
But their fate would endure forever.
16 He would have fed them also with the finest of wheat;
And with honey from the rock I would have satisfied you.”

 

[Karlysymon]

"So if its proven that the idea of a temple undermines God’s plans/authority, what does that say about the preceding events"

This question therefore hinges on the difference between Gods revealed will and his permissive will...

The book of Judges is full of examples, (some quite extreme!) of this contrast.

True, there is such as a thing as God-ordained and what He permits to be. So its tricky because Israel does exist as a nation and it isn’t going anywhere and its existence buttresses some peoples’ belief system. Same with Satan’s existence. He could have been destroyed but God permitted him to live on, now someone could argue that since he wasn’t destroyed, its evidence for universal reconciliation but we both know that the bible doesn’t support that claim and the supposed evidence.

So it’s the same thing with Israel. Many verses are dredged up to support its existence today, Jerusalem as its capital and the soon-to-be built temple but in light of all that, where does that leave the book of Hebrews? I think God’s permissive will in this case is because the modern state of Israel is going to play a crucial role in the end-time deceptions, as is already obvious by now, with the heightened interest by TPTB.

 

[DavidSon]

Really??

Do you believe that who God is might turn out to be different that who people believe Him to be?

Jesus Explains the Prophecies

25Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 26Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 27And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

In a sense, @DavidSon you are right that who some of the Jews in the OT perceived God to be is different from the God revealed through Jesus, but as you read the OT in the light of the New, you can see that the discrepancy is in the perception, not the substance.

Consider the gap between Israel's understanding of "their" God and the nature of God that comes out in this Psalm....

Psalms 81:1-16

1 An Appeal for Israel’s Repentance
Sing aloud to God our strength;
Make a joyful shout to the God of Jacob.
2 Raise a song and strike the timbrel,
The pleasant harp with the lute.
3 Blow the trumpet at the time of the New Moon,
At the full moon, on our solemn feast day.
4 For this is a statute for Israel,
A law of the God of Jacob.
5 This He established in Joseph as a testimony,
When He went throughout the land of Egypt,
Where I heard a language I did not understand.
6 “I removed his shoulder from the burden;
His hands were freed from the baskets.
7 You called in trouble, and I delivered you;
I answered you in the secret place of thunder;
I tested you at the waters of Meribah.
Selah
8 “Hear, O My people, and I will admonish you!
O Israel, if you will listen to Me!
9 There shall be no foreign god among you;
Nor shall you worship any foreign god.
10 I am the Lord your God,
Who brought you out of the land of Egypt;
Open your mouth wide, and I will fill it.
11 “But My people would not heed My voice,
And Israel would have none of Me.
12 So I gave them over to their own stubborn heart,
To walk in their own counsels.
13 “Oh, that My people would listen to Me,
That Israel would walk in My ways!
14 I would soon subdue their enemies,
And turn My hand against their adversaries.
15 The haters of the Lord would pretend submission to Him,
But their fate would endure forever.
16 He would have fed them also with the finest of wheat;
And with honey from the rock I would have satisfied you.”

I think faith is ever evolving in the believer; for example I've read members here mention their spiritual understanding had changed (maybe even slightly) over time. So yes, God can be more than what we hold true to be today.

I've always interpreted Christ's words (which a great amount were quotes from the scriptures) as breathing life into the ancient commandments. The laws, wisdom, miracles of holiness are dead if not made real and acted upon by the spiritually awakened man and woman. Yes, Jesus was greater in his time than Moses and David because God is of the living, not the dead. For Jewish and Islamic the figure of Savior is a human being. The "messianic" age was ushered in, no one can deny that. It's also accurate to say he fulfilled the scripture, as the philosophy of Jew and Gentile were turned right-side-up. A new way of experiencing faith spread the world and became the largest religion known- and here we are.

Besides all this I don't see the vast discrepancy between the ancient Israelite concept of the Creator, vs. Jesus's, or vs. His followers. Faith and love are the central teaching. When Jesus prays to the Father or speaks of God... that's the same YHWH. Where are people getting this idea that Islam, Jewish, Christian, or any mono-theistic religion actually are submitting to a different God. I mean, the God of Islam vs. the God of Judaism, this makes no sense. Different qualities or ways of worship sure, but the essence of the concept is the exact same.

Not sure what you're reading into verses 11-12 of PSALM 81. The theme of God warning the Israelites, admonishing God's people for faltering faith, and then by His mercy individuals repenting, is ever present throughout the Word. The shifting mood of the Chief Musician in Psalms shows the full scale of human emotion, from shame and despair to triumph and revelation. There's no gap between the teaching of the OT and the Gospels, it's about Faith in the Holy One!

 

[TokiEl]

The real “Israel of God” is not a country in the Middle East, but those who trust and follow Christ.

Sprinkled throughout the Scriptures is God's promise to bring a remnant back into His land because of His name.

According to Jesus the times of the Gentiles were fulfilled when the Jews would restore control over the Old City again... and that's why since June 7 1967 Christianity has been on a downward slope of apostate corruption as God's focus is now on the Jews in Israel.

 

[TokiEl]

Again, according to Deuteronomy 13, God told them to reject the Jesus you tell them to worship. As in, He put it in their law, to reject the worship of Jesus. And I say that because He didnt present a "Jesus" for them to worship with Abraham, or Moses, or David, or Noah etc... So it makes no sense as to why He would later present them a "Jesus" to worship and get mad when they dont, when in the "old" testament, He complained that they would later worship do exactly that later..

God was mad at them for not obeying His laws and killing His prophets.

Any day now God will pour out His spirit upon the Jews and they will finally be able to see who their Messiah is... which will cause a national repentance in Israel.

 

[phipps]

Sprinkled throughout the Scriptures is God's promise to bring a remnant back into His land because of His name.

According to Jesus the times of the Gentiles were fulfilled when the Jews would restore control over the Old City again... and that's why since June 7 1967 Christianity has been on a downward slope of apostate corruption as God's focus is now on the Jews in Israel.

Where in the Bible does it say the the remnant will be Jewish genetically or by physical citizenship? After you read the Bible and what it says about Israel (as I have posted over and over), who is Jewish (again I posted a lot of scripture on that) and what the temple is (its a spiritual one not earthly, and there is no prophecy, promise, or commandment in the Bible that says the temple would be rebuilt again after the Romans destroyed it) you would understand that we all become true Jews by the choices we make. We are saved based on choices we make regarding God’s provision, not on national status or physical citizenship. “There is neither Jew nor Greek” (Galatians 3:28).

God does not have one method of salvation for Jews and a different one for Gentiles. Everyone is saved the same way under the same program—by grace through faith. When Christian Zionists talk about Jews as separate from Gentiles it reminds me of George Orwell's political satire Animal Farm. There is a quote that says "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." If God treated Jews differently to the rest of the world, it would contradict every principle of His dealings with humans throughout history and Scripture. God is not a racist and He treats us all equally.

Yes Christianity has been on a downward slope but there are always true Christians in every age. All through history God always had a people trying to get His message across to the rest of the world. Nowhere in the Bible does it say He will pay special attention to Jews in Israel.

And remember the book of Hebrews talks about a heavenly sanctuary and Christ is the High Priest. So what would an earthly temple mean if we already have Christ, that lamb that takes away our sins as High Priest? It would be useless.

 

[TokiEl]

Where in the Bible does it say the the remnant will be Jewish genetically or by physical citizenship?

In several places.

Jesus said it in Luke 21:24 and in Ezekiel 38:8 it is crystal clear that God will bring back the Jews before the Gog invasion attempt.

And remember the book of Hebrews talks about a heavenly sanctuary and Christ is the High Priest. So what would an earthly temple mean if we already have Christ, that lamb that takes away our sins as High Priest? It would be useless.

That's right and that's perhaps why a temple has not been built.

 

[phipps]

In several places.

Jesus said it in Luke 21:24 and in Ezekiel 38:8 it is crystal clear that God will bring back the Jews before the Gog invasion attempt.


That's right and that's perhaps why a temple has not been built.

You still haven't shown me where it says in the Bible the remnant will be Jewish genetically or by physical citizenship.

Does God contradict Himself? Does one part of the Bible tell us that we are all the same as long we are saved and another say that the Jews are special? Is Paul lying when he says "there neither Jew nor Greek"? What about when he said, “They are not all Israel, which are of Israel” (Romans 9:6). He added in verse 8, “That is, They which are the children of the flesh (physical descendants of Abraham), these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed” The children of the flesh are only natural descendants of Abraham, but the children of the promise are counted as the true seed. Today, any person, Jew or Gentile can become part of this spiritual nation of Israel through faith in Jesus Christ. Are you going to continuously ignore those words and choose verses here and there that support your doctrine that isn't based on the Bible? Even Jesus told the Jews this very sentiment. “They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham … Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do” (John 8:39, 44).

Paul wrote, “Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham” (Galatians 3:7).

Peter the apostle also eventually understood that Jews and Gentiles are Israel as long as they accept Christ as their Saviour and obey Him. “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him" (Acts 10:34-35).

Peter got it, so can you, so can we all. The Bible makes no distinction between Jew and Gentile.

You have misunderstood Luke 21:24 and I explained Ezekiel 38:8 to you before. Do you realise what you're saying about God's character? I will repeat what I posted in my previous post, "If God treated Jews differently to the rest of the world, it would contradict every principle of His dealings with humans throughout history and Scripture. God is not a racist and He treats us all equally."

I can't say any more than this. God bless.

 

[TokiEl]

You still haven't shown me where it says in the Bible the remnant will be Jewish genetically or by physical citizenship.

Yes i have but because of your prejudice on this topic you might not be able to see.

Luke 21 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Jesus is saying that the Gentiles will be in control of Jerusalem until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Gentiles are those who are not Jews.

So Jesus is saying that the Jews will again be in control of Jerusalem.


Jesus also told a parable about the budding fig tree... which you have not learnt.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I just had this pop up in my YouTube feed and it struck me as rather apt:-

 

[Todd]

I am baffled that by the premise that "What we should do" and "what will cause us to go to heaven or hell" is the same thing.

Does breaking the law or keeping it determine if we go to heaven or hell? Of course not. If it did, heaven would be a lonely place.

Should we attempt to keep the law of God? Of course, we should. But why do we have to equate what we should or shouldn't do directly with heaven or hell as destinations? It makes faith and following Christ very superficial.

In recent years I have felt a draw to learn and observe the feasts of God. I believe this is something I (and every other Christian) should do. Does that mean if someone doesn't I think they are going to hell? Of course not.

If your only motivation for doing something is to avoid hell, you're not doing it right!

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I am baffled that by the premise that "What we should do" and "what will cause us to go to heaven or hell" is the same thing.

Does breaking the law or keeping it determine if we go to heaven or hell? Of course not. If it did, heaven would be a lonely place.

Should we attempt to keep the law of God? Of course, we should. But why do we have to equate what we should or shouldn't do directly with heaven or hell as destinations? It makes faith and following Christ very superficial.

In recent years I have felt a draw to learn and observe the feasts of God. I believe this is something I (and every other Christian) should do. Does that mean if someone doesn't I think they are going to hell? Of course not.

If your only motivation for doing something is to avoid hell, you're not doing it right!

I think the "meme" is imprecise yet it does illustrate the confusion out there between faith and the law. If I were talking to a new Christian I would encourage them to read Romans 6, 7 and 8 every day for a month till the message sinks in!!!

 

[TokiEl]

Christians must obey Jesus Christ... and that means Christians must obey the Ten Commandments...and not only the letter of the Law but the intent and spirit of the Law as well. And this is impossible without the Holy spirit.

And that's why Jesus was so adamant about the absolute necessity of being born again.

 

[floss]

I am baffled that by the premise that "What we should do" and "what will cause us to go to heaven or hell" is the same thing.

Does breaking the law or keeping it determine if we go to heaven or hell? Of course not. If it did, heaven would be a lonely place.

Should we attempt to keep the law of God? Of course, we should. But why do we have to equate what we should or shouldn't do directly with heaven or hell as destinations? It makes faith and following Christ very superficial.

In recent years I have felt a draw to learn and observe the feasts of God. I believe this is something I (and every other Christian) should do. Does that mean if someone doesn't I think they are going to hell? Of course not.

If your only motivation for doing something is to avoid hell, you're not doing it right!

This cannot be Todd, did you just got re-re-born again?

What must one do to enter Heaven?

 

[Yahda]

You still haven't shown me where it says in the Bible the remnant will be Jewish genetically or by physical citizenship.

That’s because it does not say Jew/Jewish

A few things first: Jew is short for Judah, and Israel is a PEOPLE not a place.

Ezekiel 37:21 Then tell them, “ This is what The Lord God says: I will take the ISRAELITES from among the nations where they have gone and I will collect them together from every direction and bring them to their land. I will make them one nation in the land....they will no longer be TWO NATIONS

(Jeremiah 31:31-34 ***** 2 of the 12 tribes. The other 10 being the LOST TRIBES OF ISRAEL/Sons of Jacob).

Now this may need a little clarification considering you have Levi ( the Priests ) & Judah (Jew* Kings & Queens) then the other tribes (LOST TRIBES), but to keep it simple...I’ll move forward

REMNANT:

Ezekiel 6:5 I will throw the carcasses of the people of Israel before their DISGUSTING IDOLS......v8 BUT I will leave a remnant

Isaiah 11:11 In that day. The Lord God will again offer his hand a second time ( first time when he brought the Israelites out of Egypt) TO RECLAIM the REMNANT of his people

Isaiah 14 For God will have mercy on Jacob and he will again choose Israel. He will settle them in their land and the foreign resident will join them and attach themselves to the house of Jacob (12 tribes)...and the house of Israel will possess them as male and femal slaves in the land of God and they will be the CAPTORS of those who held them CAPTIVE

So yes REMNANT is a theme referenced throughout the OT, Jew is short for JUDAH, and Israel is a people NOT a place. Because we all know that those WHO SAY THEY ARE JEWS are of the synagogue of Satan ? So no need to get into that.

 

[KoncreteMind]

I see what you're saying but Chapter 13 is specifically mentioning "other gods", ie. pagan deities from neighboring cultures. Traditional Christians, from what I've learned, believe in the God Yahweh but also believe (to varying degrees) that Jesus is directly tied into the Almighty and therefore can be prayed to, worshiped, etc. as the same entity. So in that sense I don't think Christians are necessarily following a "foreign" idol, more simply it's a revised concept of the OT God.

The problem is, the concept of God isnt up for revision according to the OT. Its pretty much, "Heres the law, judge everything else according to this" when it comes to the OT. Then the NT comes and pretty much says "disregard the law for these new laws/beliefs/god"... Of course a person can believe whatever they feel is the truth just as I can. My only point is that, no, the NT is not inline with the OT. A person has to hold one supreme over the other and thats where the christian belief of reading the OT "thru the lens of the NT" comes in...

And at the end of the day, if you brought up "Jesus" somehow to Abraham and told Abraham to worship him, he wouldnt do it. Because to him that would be someone he never knew and was never taught to worship. So no matter the Hebrew concepts that are placed on him, if Abraham didnt worship him, we shouldnt (imo)..

 

[Yahda]

And at the end of the day, if you brought up "Jesus" somehow to Abraham and told Abraham to worship him, he wouldnt do it. Because to him that would be someone he never knew and was never taught to worship. So no matter the Hebrew concepts that are placed on him, if Abraham didnt worship him, we shouldnt (imo)..

Speaking of the Abraham/forfather this verse comes to mind:

Deuteronomy 13: If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

So the perspective as to why Judah/Jew did not accept Christ needs to change. They did actually as the Lord their/our God commanded.

Isaiah 43:3 For I am the Lord you God. The Holy One of Israel YOUR SAVIOR.

V11 I-I am God and besides me THERE IS NO SAVIOR. I am the one who declared and saved

45:5 I AM GOD and there is NO ONE ELSE

V21......THERE IS NO GOD BUT ME. A righteous God and SAVIOR. There is NONE besides ME. TURN TO ME ( ME key word) and be ye SAVED all the ends of the earth for I AM GOD AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE.....TO ME ( key word again) EVERY KNEE WILL BOW....46:9 I am God and there is no other THERE IS NO ONE LIKE ME

Hosea 13:4 I am God from the land of Egypt AND YOU KNEW NO GOD EXCEPT ME AND BESIDES ME THERE IS NO SAVIOR !!!

 

[KoncreteMind]

God was mad at them for not obeying His laws and killing His prophets.

100% true. But that doesnt mean He sent Hisself with a new name/new rules for them to worship. Because that goes against Deuteronomy 13/30 which says not to follow new gods...

Any day now God will pour out His spirit upon the Jews and they will finally be able to see who their Messiah is... which will cause a national repentance in Israel.

The problem is that your definition of "God" is different from, lets say, Moses' definition of "God". Just as what you call a "year" is different from what he called a year. Even your end time prophecies are different from what they believed. In the end, I see the "2 sides" to the bible are about picking one or the other (Matt 6:24 cant serve two masters?). Theres no middle ground (Rev 3:16 cant be lukewarm and be spat out?) coming from someone who used to try to play the middle ground. If you believe the OT fully, you wont believe the NT fully and vice versa. The longer we continue to state our different positions, the more we prove that point...

 

[KoncreteMind]

Speaking of the Abraham/forfather this verse comes to mind:

Deuteronomy 13: If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

So the perspective as to why Judah/Jew did not accept Christ needs to change. They did actually as the Lord their/our God commanded.

Isaiah 43:3 For I am the Lord you God. The Holy One of Israel YOUR SAVIOR.

V11 I-I am God and besides me THERE IS NO SAVIOR. I am the one who declared and saved

45:5 I AM GOD and there is NO ONE ELSE

V21......THERE IS NO GOD BUT ME. A righteous God and SAVIOR. There is NONE besides ME. TURN TO ME ( ME key word) and be ye SAVED all the ends of the earth for I AM GOD AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE.....TO ME ( key word again) EVERY KNEE WILL BOW....46:9 I am God and there is no other THERE IS NO ONE LIKE ME

Hosea 13:4 I am God from the land of Egypt AND YOU KNEW NO GOD EXCEPT ME AND BESIDES ME THERE IS NO SAVIOR !!!

I agree. And though I've always gone back and forth on the belief, I do remember you telling me this a long time ago on this version of the boards or the last and me arguing for a more "Hebrewnized" version of Jesus. I guess I had to see some historical things that came with the belief in him to solidify my stance..

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Isaiah 43:3 For I am the Lord you God. The Holy One of Israel YOUR SAVIOR.

V11 I-I am God and besides me THERE IS NO SAVIOR. I am the one who declared and saved

45:5 I AM GOD and there is NO ONE ELSE

V21......THERE IS NO GOD BUT ME. A righteous God and SAVIOR. There is NONE besides ME. TURN TO ME ( ME key word) and be ye SAVED all the ends of the earth for I AM GOD AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE.....TO ME ( key word again) EVERY KNEE WILL BOW....46:9 I am God and there is no other THERE IS NO ONE LIKE ME

Hosea 13:4 I am God from the land of Egypt AND YOU KNEW NO GOD EXCEPT ME AND BESIDES ME THERE IS NO SAVIOR !!!

Perhaps it should be clear that in order to make sense of these verses, there are only three possible stances.

1 - Jesus was a wicked imposter who was well versed in the OT and wished to position himself as the suffering servant of Isaiah 53.

2 - Somehow, the apostles and early church concocted and subsequently gave their lives for a contrived concept of the Godhead and the atonement.

3 - Jesus is himself God, and the doctrine of the Trinity is correct.

As I see it, there are no other logical positions to take on this issue.