Roe V. Wade To be overturned

[Red Sky at Morning]

Your attempt to discredit my comment is laughable. Let's take a look at your flawed reasoning now, shall we?

"I tend to find that those who rely on rudeness and aggression to make a point often have a point that couldn’t stand up for itself."

^^^ Too bad your "reasoning" is flawed.
- Every point I've made is based on FACT and our very real, LIVED experiences as women. If you can't accept it because you get off on torturing girls and women, I guess that's your problem now, isn't it?
- Also, focusing on "rudeness" here is just a gaslighting technique. Funny how you're more concerned with "rudeness" in the face of women being tortured, abused and violated by pro forced-birthers. We can see through your attempt to draw focus to "rudeness" because you want to draw away focus from the repulsiveness of your crimes against the female gender.
- There wouldn't be any need for "rudeness" in the first place, if you people respected women and didn't violate their health, bodily autonomy and dignity. Correct your attitude and your perverted misogyny and you won't be met with "rudeness".


"If the Bible happens to be true (and there are many who believe there is compelling evidence to believe that to be so) then there is clearly a vertical as well as a horizontal component to morality. The One who created life would therefore have a valid say over how we get to define when we can take it away.

^^^ It doesn't matter if many "believe" in the bible. Your "belief" does not supersede the lived experiences of women, or the medical reality of pregnancy and childbirth.
- And for those of you who "believe" in the bible, the bible clearly states that life begins at FIRST BREATH.


If "The One who created life would therefore have a valid say over how we get to define when we can take it away,"

^^^ Then you have no right to kill an animal and eat it, or wear it. You also have no right to kill others in war.
- What is this "valid say" you're talking about. Did the "One" come down and whisper in your ear that women must be bred against their will? Does that make your version of 'god' a forced-impregnator? If god is in fact good, then god can't be a forced impregnator. Anyone with higher spiritual knowledge and compassion knows the real god would never be like that. So your point is deeply flawed and quite frankly, embarrassing for you.

And last but not least, you "christians" are not the only ones around here. There are SEVERAL other religions in this wide-world. You do not have the right to force your misguided, perverted views driven by your own repulsive misogyny on other people.

First to the rudeness point as it is partly a stylistic issue. I simply find that debating styles that include name calling and misrepresentation dull and imprecise.

I deliberately left out my own view of the why’s and when’s of abortion but noted with interest that belief in the Bible and a subscription to a kind of “Handmaids Tale” patriarchy was assumed.

For what it’s worth, I do believe that there are circumstances where abortion is the least bad option and that circumstances can sometimes create exceptions to general legislated rules. I also believe that abortion on demand up to birth for any reason is barbaric. In reality we are talking about the lives of two individuals. The topic is painful, nuanced and has unchangeable effects on the life of mother and child either way.

The words “lived reality” also interested me as it is a modern version of unquestionable truth. It certainly meshes with many of the popularly emerging societal beliefs right now. Let me offer you a question on this that stems from a genuine person I know. At the school of a child I know, there is presently a girl who’s lived reality is that she is a cat. She hisses, gets up and wanders freely and for all I know plays with a ball of string at break. Should the school yield to this lived reality and fit a cat flap by way of inclusion or challenge her by sending her to the school counsellor?

Taking lastly your point on the diversity of intellectual and religious views, I certainly acknowledge that diversity but reject the idea that diversity must automatically mean that the truth is divided evenly between those views. Take for example a scientific question..,

Imagine there is a dispute about the nature of the moon. There are people who believe it to be young, others old, some believe it to be a reflective disc, others a sphere. Some think it made of rock, others of cream cheese. In scientific journals on astrophysics these positions (except perhaps the cream cheese one) are critiqued and weighed.

Some might argue that when it comes to more abstract topics such as moral values and religious perspectives these are not subject to scrutiny. I would disagree, especially with regard to Christianity. To illustrate this, I would certainly agree that all the claims cannot be substantiated by external means of history, archaeology and science but enough can to make a good case for a significant number of minimal facts. Given that these (especially related to the death and resurrection of Jesus) if the Christian view of those events are true, Islamic contradictory claims would therefore be false.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Celestree

Rather than make my previous post too long, I also wanted to address two points you bring up:

It doesn't matter if many "believe" in the bible. Your "belief" does not supersede the lived experiences of women, or the medical reality of pregnancy and childbirth.
- And for those of you who "believe" in the bible, the bible clearly states that life begins at FIRST BREATH.

Can you let me know where the Bible clearly states this?

Also

Then you have no right to kill an animal and eat it, or wear it. You also have no right to kill others in war.

Do you think the Bible is imprecise in its statements on killing and fails to differentiate between murder and manslaughter, defence and unjustified attack, humans and animals etc?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Sorry, you don't make a logical point. Try again or maybe just keep quiet because you're just embarrassing yourself with your attempt at logic.

Your attempt to compare someone believing they are a cat (mental illness) - to the medically and scientifically sounds facts of pregnancy/childbirth related damage to a woman's health and body - is utterly laughable.

The girl who believes she's a cat is undergoing a sort of mental psychosis if she's walking around hissing etc. She's experiencing a delusion and should be give appropriate mental health care and monitored by trained professionals.

You can't compare that to the LIVED REALITY AND MEDICAL REALITY of pain, health problems, side-effects and PTSD from pregnancy and childbirth that millions of women experience.

What you're doing is trying to gaslight women's pain and symptoms, not to mention discredit the medical profession - with your paltry "analogies" that have no basis in fact or logic.

Just admit you're another disgusting misogynist and go. Your religious cult does not have a say in women's health and reproductive decisions. PERIOD.

It is very much the tactic of the some on the left to shout people down. I am not interested in shouting others down and I am not even slightly intimidated by written communications.

I note the things you have picked up on and the things you ignore. My cat example was simply the test of absurdity to determine if you ever saw a departure of “lived reality” with truth.

One question I think you need to consider is at what point a baby becomes “real”. Is it the moment of conception, when it can draw its first breath unaided or somewhere in between? Made more personal, at what point did you become real? Mothers and the unborn both have at least some rights. At what point do a mothers rights to mental and physical health supersede the right of a new life to exist? Should all children regardless of circumstances, known disabilities likely suffering be mandated to go to full term? These are all painful and difficult questions whether you have a faith or not.

On a personal level, both my parents came into being in circumstances that would have given a high probability of abortion these days (teenage pregnancy). Both were glad to be alive and both their mothers were glad they were despite great hardship at the time. I arrived an an inconvenient time too so I’m naturally glad to be alive.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Well that's great and good for you then. Enjoy being alive! And if you were aborted, you wouldn't know any different LOL.
Now just don't butt into other peoples' business, especially something as serious as women's health and bodily autonomy. As much as you can try to justify this pro forced-birth stuff, it is the absolute deepest and most vile violation of a woman's health, personhood and dignity.


You said:
At what point do a mothers rights to mental and physical health supersede the right of a new life to exist?

^^ The fact that you have no compassion for women's health show what a repugnant excuse for a male you are. I can't believe you actually have the audacity to THINK, let alone ask this question.

I suspect you are more used to arguing than discussing.

Why I asked that question is because there certainly may be a point at which the concerns over a mothers mental or physical health supersede that of the child, and there also may be circumstances where severe congenital issues flagged up by scans may mean an abortion is judged by clinicians and parents to be the best of the bad options available.

From what you have said, I take it your stance is for full term abortions with no consideration of the child’s rights till it is capable of independent life. The issue that must preset itself to many of us who have had babies of our own is that that distinction barely figures as without constant intervention, a newborn would be completely incapable of sustaining life. I therefore reject a defacto right to abortion up to birth regardless of circumstances.

What is happening at the moment is a good thing because it forces people to consider what they believe and why they believe it. It would be a bad outcome if the US divided between a the heavy handed application of zero tolerance and full-term, no questions asked abortions fractured by state-by-state division. Sadly I can actually seeing that happen due to the nature of dialogue on the topic.

 

[lightseeker]

Baby killers mad. It doesn’t take a bible to tell you killing babies is wrong

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

It doesn’t take a bible to tell you killing babies is wrong

Exactly.
I wasn't even a Christian when i realized that abortion is barbatic. Guess theyve never heard of atheists for life.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

While i dont know of youre just an argumentative troll with anger issues, i will address your points

It doesn't matter whether abortion have to do with r*pe and incest or not. Women will get abortions FOR ANY REASON THEY DAMN WELL PLEASE. ON DEMAND AND WITHOUT APOLOGY. Women's body, woman's health, woman's choice. Understood? Your clump of cells has NO SAY IN IT and neither do you.

It DOES matter, since all you pro baby murder people keep screaming about those cases whem the issue is brought up.

Also, it would be nice if all you "my body my choice " people cared about body autonomy, but you actually are just pro baby murder. Suddenly when its time to force people to get v@xxed there's no body autonomy huh?

Pregnancy is extremely taxing and difficult on the body. It takes a toll on women's health and damages the body. There are life-long side effects. Women have cracked ribs in later stages of pregnancy. They vomit daily from morning sickness. Sometimes have to be hospitalised with hydration IVs and meds to counter the morning-sickness and make sure they are getting enough fluids. They can develop gestational diabetes. Prolapsed uterus. Infections, weakened immunity, preeclampsia, preterm labor, horrible depression and anxiety, join pain, swollen feet, bleeding, placental complications etc. These are just a handful of side-effects. There are MANY more.

Those side effects dont apply to ALL women. And the rare ones that are truly life threatening, like preeclampia actually DO get treated by an early induced labor or c section.

Gestational diabetes (which ive gotten every single time) is as simple as eating a healthy lower carb diet and exercising for the rest of the pregnancy.

And swollen feet? Are you kidding me? A life is worth temporarily swollen feet? Wow.

Childbirth is TORTURE. And many women have severe Tokophobia. Absolute fear and terror of pregnancy and childbirth. Many women has lasting PTSD symptoms after enduring the horror of childbirth.

Some women (not me btw) would disagree about it being torture.

Many women suffer ptsd because of how they were treated by the hospital staff, had their body violated without consent, "birth r*pe", not the childbirth itself.

Perhaps the body autonomy crowd should be fighting for women's rights to be treated with dignity and respect during the act of birthing. For women's rights to decline invasive pelvic exams during labor. For women who wish to use pharmaceutical pain management to have access to it no questions asked.

If a woman is truly afraid of the act of birthing she should be able to request a c section with no pushback from the medical establishment. Unfortunately, many times the medical establishment will deny these requests. Once again, why is the "my body my choice" crowd not fighting for women to have these CHOICES?

Post-partum recovery is brutal. Vagina stitched up from tearing. Horribly painful recovery from pain at the c-section incision site. Bending, stretching etc. can be painful and reopen the wound. The weakened site can cause hernias even after healing. Bleeding for 40 days. No big deal right?

I have had children. Have you?

While i have to acknowledge that some people minimize or deny the fact that childbirth can be very dangerous, these things are not guaranteed to happen. Not every woman ends up with stitching or tears. Some women bleed as little as 10 days.

I do think there should be more support and help for women recovering from childbirth. Some other countries have a visiting nurse or helper come by and it's covered by insurance/the medical system.

According to you stinking conservates women are just here to breed against their will right? Forget that they feel pain, terror, fear and then have to put up with this pain and torture. All for your stinking clump of cells. Because conservatives don't view women as living, breathing human beings.

Im not a "conservative" or "republican ". I guess you missed the part where i said that there should be what the republicans would call "handouts" to help the poor.

No one should breed against their will. But unless we're talking about r@pe, we're talking about a predictable voluntary act. These women CHOSE to have s*x. The logical outcome of that act is pregnancy.

Women are dying from ecoptic pregnancies. Countless news reports of women being denied medication for their chronic health issues because "they're of childbearing age" or the drug can be used as an "abortifacient".

Ectopic pregnancies are not viable and are not considered an abortion. They are treated at a hospital, not an abortion clinic.
If you mean birth control pills, i believe they should be legal (thought they are harmful to the woman's health, but i see it as lesser of two evils).

Also, in the case of r@pes, i do hold the men responsible and think they should be punished with court ordered castration the minute the paternity test comes back positive. But rather than fight for r@pists to be more severely punished, especially those who r@pe minors, you would rather just have women murdering unborn children.

By the way, your stupid "it's a clump of cells" argument may fly very early on in the pregnancy, but anyone who can claim a fully formed, viable, just smaller unborn child is "a clump of cells" is BLIND as well as ignorant and evil.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I have rarely interacted with a hard left individual - I felt memes inferring they were screaming, unhinged bullies might be caricatures and the real people employed reason in their interactions…



Then Monday happened!

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

You're straight up retarded and disgusting. You can go eat shit. After you crawl on your knees and suck the patriarchy's dick like a good little whore of course. Then you can go and fart out another baby like the stinking breeding animal you are.

I think I have found a way to find out your identity and I'll be warning every single women's rights organization about you, as well as my big tech contact who, while not particularly high up themselves, but has access to execs. They're going to be monitoring all your internet activity. And if you and your stinking cult DARE interfere in abortion rights... well. You're not going to like it.

I hope people keep their kids away from your nasty children - who will no doubt be indoctrinated with your disgusting rapist pedo-cult pro forced birth shit. Will they grow up to be stinking pro forced-birthers? Or will they see reason and be utterly repulsed by you and your pro forced-birth shit?

Go whine about vaccinations like a fool LOL. While you worship your precious little clump of cells of course. And if you and your pedo religious cult get off on torture then by all means get on your back and fart out another baby.

As for the rest of the world, women will have abortions on demand and without apology. Eat shit. I hope the elites come for your nasty pathetic ass LOL!

Ooh im shaking in fear of your doxxing LOL

I'll be sure to go erase all my social media posts now! Better stop donating to all those pro-life groups huh.
Probably should stop voting too. Dont wanna make the baby murderer mad LOL

No one can take you seriously. Stupid little troll who throws a tantrum about not wanting vaccines, then turns around and thinks women have to pump out babies against their will. We're all laughing at you. And while you bark, women are getting the abortion care they need. What are you gonna do about it, you sad little tantrum thrower? Cry about it? Rant about it? Tsk tsk. Too bad for you and your pedo forced-birth cult. While you bark women are getting the abortion care they need. Stay mad!

Oh no! The angry feminist doesnt take me serious, whatever will i do?
Laughing at me too, im devastated LOL

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

It looks like she's horrified and disgusting after smelling the stink of the pedo, misogynistic old white man sitting in England. Stinking up the atmosphere and generally repelling people with his pro forced-birth shit. Then the pedo stinking old white man got mad as he realized how women view him with revulsion and he can't get attention from the opposite gender. Tsk tsk. How sad for the stinking old white pro forced-birth "christian taliban" bible thumper!

 

[lightseeker]

That feeling when someone tells you it’s wrong to kill babies but you need to appease demon gods of child sacrifice

 

[lightseeker]

Stinking bible thumpers. Who's surprised? They love toruturing women and their "bible" even condones slavery and tells women to submit to men like subservient whores. The "christian" taliban can eat shit tbh. I hope the elite come for your nasty pathetic ass. Oh, and keep barking like a stinking mutt. Women are getting the abortion care they need while you bark. Stay mad stinker!

The jews support child sacrifice like you, its not a religious question, baby killer.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

 

[JoChris]

you actually are a good person Red, stupid but a decent guy.

so why do you keep company with all the evil
Nazi fucks who call this place home? You don’t even have the balls to call them out because you’re a coward at heart.

thats Christianity to its core. It comes pretending peace with a sword taped behind its back.

I know you are bitter from never having children of your own, but the only person who is suffering from your bile is YOU. You know the only way for spiritual healing is to repent of your sins and to turn to Jesus.

 

[JoChris]

shut up cunt

I was one of the few Christians who understood you and despite that tolerated you. So I won't keep quiet. Not sorry.

From your responses I am truly thankful that God prevented you from having children for the potential CHILDREN's sake. It must be so hard, never being able to move on past personal hurts and strifes with adults online; God literally knows what you would been like with poor children.

 

[JoChris]

you have no idea who you’re talking to which shows how stupid you are

your Nazi pal lightseeker might be the only to get it as usual

If you're the other one, why does this thread matter to you personally?

 

[JoChris]

whose the other one?

The name skips my mind, was too long ago.

why do Christian’s constantly pal around with and befriend and even promote Nazis like lightseeker?

Can you give an example of where lightseeker shows they are a Nazi?

 

[JoChris]

@JoChris

or that just the standard Christian belief?

What did Jesus say about little children?

 

[JoChris]

Who gives a shit what Jesus allegedly said lol

You were alleging Christians supported child sacrifice. Christians follow Jesus.
I therefore asked what does Jesus say about little children.... and then you said the above.

If you don't care, why ask what the Christian belief is?

 

[JoChris]

don’t play word games with me bitch. Nazi lightseeker repeats Nazi propaganda about Jews sacrificing children because he is Nazi fuck who should die, and you go out of your way to defend him

Is that individual doctor calling herself a Jew - yes or no? (whether or not she is for real, only she knows)