Hell, eternal or not?

What do you believe about punishment in hell?

  • Eternal Punishment

  • Not Eternal Punishment


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#1
What do you believe about the length of punishment in hell? Please back up with scriptural support.

I personally believed the Bible said it is eternal, everlasting, for ever and ever.

Matthew 25:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Daniel 12:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Revelation 14:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


How can one be punished by hell fire and not burnt up?

Exodus 3:2-3 King James Version (KJV)
2 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
 




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#2
It’s not. The wages of sin is DEATH not hell. The Bible uses the words perishing, destruction, and consumption over and over when describing hell. The only verse that talks about being tormented forever is referring to Satan who certainly deserves a punishment that severe.
“And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬
“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬
“There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 




Todd

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#3
Your KJV is lying to you. All the early church fathers recognized aeon and aionios meant a age or long period of time (where we get English word “eon” from).

The koine Greek word for “eternal” is aidios and is only used in the Bible to describe God himself.

Even when it speaks of “eternal life” for the believer it really means life of the ages. As believers we are promised the life of the ages.
 




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#4
It’s not. The wages of sin is DEATH not hell.
I agreed, the wages of sin is DEATH and this referred to a physical death that all experiences. What about the second death, is that not in hell?

The Bible uses the words perishing, destruction, and consumption over and over when describing hell. The only verse that talks about being tormented forever is referring to Satan who certainly deserves a punishment that severe.
Only Satan is being tormented forever in hell? Everyone else just ceased to exist?

“And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:"
- This is talking about DONT FEAR MEN

"but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell"
- rather, FEAR GOD, that can destroy both soul and body. Destroy here is not zip zap then you ceased to exist but rather harsh punishment. Think of a boxer wanting to destroy his opponent.

“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬
sin=death [physically]

but there's a second death

Revelation 21:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 2:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

“There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬
- does destroy mean you ceased to exist?
 




Todd

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#5
when you are born again it is your spirit that is born again, not your body or soul. That is why it is necessary to pick up your cross and crucify your flesh. Believers are to “destroy” the flesh in this lifetime. It’s part of the process of salvation that is called sanctification. (And yes good works born out of faith are part of it)

“Hell” is where the unbelievers soul and body will be “destroyed” so that their spirit can be reconciled to God.

That is part of the doctrine of apokatastasis.
 




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#6
Amen.

The Bible says it & I believe it.

Unfortunately, many people do not like the idea of a physical, literal, eternal Hell, so they try to apply their own understanding to make it more palatable, (like the Catholic false doctrine of purgatory) but that does not change the reality.

Denial saves no one, and God has given us His Word (so we are ALL without excuse) which warns repeatedly of Hell.

He tells us how to avoid Hell, sent Jesus to successfully do the work we constantly fail at , to avoid going to Hell---even providing PROOF by resurrecting Christ bodily so He could be witnessed alive & resurrected for FORTY days so thousands could SEE the miracle, and even promises us we will KNOW once we are saved from Hell when we believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ (which everyone who is saved including myself can TESTIFY is true by experience).

And yet, the majority STILL refuse to believe it.

Therefore, they have no one to blame but their own foolish self when they open their eyes someday to discover they are in Hell.
 




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#7
I agreed, the wages of sin is DEATH and this referred to a physical death that all experiences. What about the second death, is that not in hell?


Only Satan is being tormented forever in hell? Everyone else just ceased to exist?


"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:"
- This is talking about DONT FEAR MEN

"but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell"
- rather, FEAR GOD, that can destroy both soul and body. Destroy here is not zip zap then you ceased to exist but rather harsh punishment. Think of a boxer wanting to destroy his opponent.


sin=death [physically]

but there's a second death

Revelation 21:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 2:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.


- does destroy mean you ceased to exist?
I’m not denying the second death. My denial of people being tormented in hell forever doesn’t mean that I believe people cease to exist after their physical death. We all obviously die physically, that is not the death that’s referred to in Romans. You saw the first part of Matthew 10:28 and not the second?
“And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Obviously the first part says not to fear men but that’s not really relevant right now. Fear him which is able to destroy BOTH SOUL AND BODY IN HELL. What does that mean to you? My stance is pretty simple. If you do not accept the gift of eternal life then you will die spiritually. Unless you’re saved, you will be punished for your sins accordingly and you be separated from God forever. God is as merciful and loving as He is just.
 




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#8
I’m not denying the second death. My denial of people being tormented in hell forever doesn’t mean that I believe people cease to exist after their physical death. We all obviously die physically, that is not the death that’s referred to in Romans. You saw the first part of Matthew 10:28 and not the second?
“And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Obviously the first part says not to fear men but that’s not really relevant right now. Fear him which is able to destroy BOTH SOUL AND BODY IN HELL. What does that mean to you? My stance is pretty simple. If you do not accept the gift of eternal life then you will die spiritually. Unless you’re saved, you will be punished for your sins accordingly and you be separated from God forever. God is as merciful and loving as He is just.
I did explained what I believed about the second part of Matthew 10:28

"but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell"
- rather, FEAR GOD, that can destroy both soul and body. Destroy here is not zip zap then you ceased to exist but rather harsh punishment. Think of a boxer wanting to destroy his opponent
- God can destroy [punish] both soul and body, which mean those who aren't save will experiences both physical and spiritual torment in hell.

Question: How long do you believe unsave people are to be punished by God in hell?
 




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#9
I did explained what I believed about the second part of Matthew 10:28



- God can destroy [punish] both soul and body, which mean those who aren't save will experiences both physical and spiritual torment in hell.

Question: How long do you believe unsave people are to be punished by God in hell?
No destroy doesn’t just mean punish I believe he literally destroys them and it’s not pleasant. I have no idea how long unsaved people are punished. No one could know that besides God. Like I said I believe everyone is punished accordingly, I think that’s fair enough. Being separated from God forever sounds like an appropriate punishment. I don’t think man should be tormented for as long as the one who deceived them.
 




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#10
God aside, a human actually desiring that other humans should be tormented at all, for any duration, for merely not believing, is the sign of a very sick and depraved mind in my opinion.

I only say this because I suspect some people might be willing to begin the process of looking within themselves and finding out exactly how this inhumane desire originated, since it's not only rooted in religion/belief, it is associated with trauma of some sort and the associated suppressed emotional issues pushing their way to the surface awareness so they might be finally addressed and cleared.
 




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#11
No destroy doesn’t just mean punish I believe he literally destroys them and it’s not pleasant. I have no idea how long unsaved people are punished. No one could know that besides God. Like I said I believe everyone is punished accordingly, I think that’s fair enough. Being separated from God forever sounds like an appropriate punishment. I don’t think man should be tormented for as long as the one who deceived them.
I agreed, there are different level of punishment for sins. I personally believe there are different type of punishment, not everyone is burning in hell but they are still there for eternity. Someone who bare the least sins probably being whipped in hell, while Satan, Pharisees, and false prophet will be tormenting in the lake of fire.

Matthew 23:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

I believe God spelled it out pretty clear that hell is a place of torment and it's lasting for eternity. Unless you can prove the OP's verses are out of context.

everlasting punishment, everlasting contempt, everlasting destruction, no rest day nor night

I always go with what God said instead of my feeling. It's tough to swallow imagining an unsaved righteous person being punish in hell forever. But that's just my perspective because God said there are none that is righteous in HIS eye.
 




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#12
God aside, a human actually desiring that other humans should be tormented at all, for any duration, for merely not believing, is the sign of a very sick and depraved mind in my opinion.

I only say this because I suspect some people might be willing to begin the process of looking within themselves and finding out exactly how this inhumane desire originated, since it's not only rooted in religion/belief, it is associated with trauma of some sort and the associated suppressed emotional issues pushing their way to the surface awareness so they might be finally addressed and cleared.
There are no real Christians wanting anybody to be tormented in hell. If we do then why there are so many missionaries around the world preaching the Gospel to get people saved from hell?

More reason to FEAR GOD and accept his free gift rather than facing eternal torment. He is definitely not playing games.
 




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#13
I agreed, there are different level of punishment for sins. I personally believe there are different type of punishment, not everyone is burning in hell but they are still there for eternity. Someone who bare the least sins probably being whipped in hell, while Satan, Pharisees, and false prophet will be tormenting in the lake of fire.

Matthew 23:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

I believe God spelled it out pretty clear that hell is a place of torment and it's lasting for eternity. Unless you can prove the OP's verses are out of context.

everlasting punishment, everlasting contempt, everlasting destruction, no rest day nor night

I always go with what God said instead of my feeling. It's tough to swallow imagining an unsaved righteous person being punish in hell forever. But that's just my perspective because God said there are none that is righteous in HIS eye.
Spiritual death is an everlasting punishment. From my perspective, everything in the Bible points to hell not lasting forever. I already responding to your original verses and the only one that talks about burning forever refers to Satan. Every other verse uses destroyed, blotted out, consumed, death...none of the those things sound like everlasting torment nor is it implied.
 




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#14
Spiritual death is an everlasting punishment. From my perspective, everything in the Bible points to hell not lasting forever. I already responding to your original verses and the only one that talks about burning forever refers to Satan. Every other verse uses destroyed, blotted out, consumed, death...none of the those things sound like everlasting torment nor is it implied.
What is spiritual death? Is that the second death where the soul is completely destroyed in hell?
 




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#16
There are no real Christians wanting anybody to be tormented in hell.
Oh, pardon me for getting confused when you also said this:

Someone who bare the least sins probably being whipped in hell,
Apparently you must agree that this is "justice": being whipped over and over, inflicting pain forever and ever just for not believing. Eternity is a very very long time. Are you sure you don't revel in these thoughts at least a little bit? Are you sure this is really what you want to believe?
 




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#17
I believe God spelled it out pretty clear that hell is a place of torment and it's lasting for eternity. Unless you can prove the OP's verses are out of context.

everlasting punishment, everlasting contempt, everlasting destruction, no rest day nor night

I always go with what God said instead of my feeling. It's tough to swallow imagining an unsaved righteous person being punish in hell forever. But that's just my perspective because God said there are none that is righteous in HIS eye.
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities
about them in like manner.... are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." (Jude 7)
 




Yahda

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#18
There was no mention of a lake of fire by God in the Old Testament. Hell is death/grave. The hell christians speak of will occur on EARTH during judgment aka The day of the Lord, aka His WRATH.

That’s why newer translations need to be tossed out. They are so far removed from the actual understanding and truth that it’s dangerous.
 




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#19
Oh, pardon me for getting confused when you also said this:


Apparently you must agree that this is "justice": being whipped over and over, inflicting pain forever and ever just for not believing. Eternity is a very very long time. Are you sure you don't revel in these thoughts at least a little bit? Are you sure this is really what you want to believe?

They aren't going to Hell simply for not believing, they are going to Hell because they have SINNED.

GOD IS JUST.
If He did not punish sin, He could not be just so He must administer justice.
But God LOVES us and does NOT want us to go to Hell, which is why He sent Jesus Christ to live a sinless life and lay down that life & take upon Himself OUR sins, and suffer the Wrath of God in OUR place, to pay our debt of sin to God to save us from the Hell we deserve for sinning against God.

All it takes to receive the payment Jesus already made on our behalf, for our sins is to BELIEVE He did it. When you believe, you are trusting Christ for salvation. That trust is called FAITH.

And that is what saves you from Hell.

“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”.......Romans 6:23
 




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#20
Oh, pardon me for getting confused when you also said this:


Apparently you must agree that this is "justice": being whipped over and over, inflicting pain forever and ever just for not believing. Eternity is a very very long time. Are you sure you don't revel in these thoughts at least a little bit? Are you sure this is really what you want to believe?
Is believing what God said about eternal torment the same as wanting someone to suffer it? My example of being whip in hell is to differentiate type of punishment, not everyone is burning in hell fire. I have no idea what type of punishment there’ll be, but its not all by fire. Tormenting in hell fire is reserved for satan, pharisee, false prophet and others deserving sins.

Look if I want people to go here, why did I keep preaching the Gospel?
 




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