Hell, eternal or not?

What do you believe about punishment in hell?

  • Eternal Punishment

  • Not Eternal Punishment


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floss

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I already told you I don't know how long an eon is. What does it matter? The point is that an eon is different than eternity.

If you want me to guess, I would say maybe anywhere between 1000 and 3000 years, based on the length of other biblical ages we know about. But it's just a guess, I could be totally wrong. Like I said before time is part of the physical creation we exist in right now, so our preception of time might be totally different in the ages to come anyway.
I supposed you don't agree with this definition. first link when I google "how long is an eon". there's a huge different between 1000/3000 years vs a billion years.

Eon goes back to the Greek aiōn, "age." An age is not easy to measure, and neither is an eon. Both are just really long periods of time, but in science an eon is about a billion years. You can use the noun eon for anything that takes a long while, including how long it will be before another planet collides with Earth or how many days until summer vacation starts — one is an eon, the other feels like an eon, or forever.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/eon
 
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Helioform

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Todd probably can tell you, I fully trust KJV as the ultimate truth without error so I don't need to go back to the Greek. I thought you knew what I mean when I say "when someone took their last breath", this "someone" is referred to an unsave person. Your soul go to heaven immediately with the Lord, IF you're saved. There are more people in hell than heaven right now.

2 Corinthians 5:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Philippians 1:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
So what is the final Judgement for then? Everyone is supposed to be lifted from their graves for that event.
 

Todd

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What about this rich man?

Luke 16:22-24 King James Version (KJV)
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments
, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Jesus was using a parable to compare the condition of the soul of a beggar and a rich man who believed he was right with God because of his ancestory. Jesus never meant it to be a discourse on the working of heaven and hell. Do you understand what a parable is?

When you die the next conscious moment you will have is at the end of the age when Christ returns. Unbleievers next conscious moment will be at the resurrection unto judgement. Hasn't happened yet!

Here are some scriptures to go study and see for yourself

Deut 31:16
Job 14:12-14
Ecclesiates 9:4-6, 10
Daniel 12:1-2
Hosea 13:14
John 3:13
Acts 2:29-34
Ezekiel 37:12-14
Matthew 22:23-32
Luke 14:14
John 11:21-26
John 14:3
I Cor 15:42, 51-52
I Thessalonians 4:13-17
Rev 20:4-5, 11-13
John 5:28,29
Hebrews 6:1-2
Matthew 16:27
2 Peter 3:7
 

Helioform

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I supposed you don't agree with this definition. first link when I google "how long is an eon". there's a huge different between 1000/3000 years vs a billion years.

Eon goes back to the Greek aiōn, "age." An age is not easy to measure, and neither is an eon. Both are just really long periods of time, but in science an eon is about a billion years. You can use the noun eon for anything that takes a long while, including how long it will be before another planet collides with Earth or how many days until summer vacation starts — one is an eon, the other feels like an eon, or forever.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/eon
But does anything really last forever? Even stars die after a few billion years.
 

Todd

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I supposed you don't agree with this definition. first link when I google "how long is an eon". there's a huge different between 1000/3000 years vs a billion years.

Eon goes back to the Greek aiōn, "age." An age is not easy to measure, and neither is an eon. Both are just really long periods of time, but in science an eon is about a billion years. You can use the noun eon for anything that takes a long while, including how long it will be before another planet collides with Earth or how many days until summer vacation starts — one is an eon, the other feels like an eon, or forever.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/eon
Again what is your point? Even if it's a billion years it still not forever! An Eon even in science has a beginning and an end. But since the ages in the bible are all measured in thousands of years, I tend to think that is more likely, but that's just my opinion, I don't know for sure.

Besides the word EON is derived from the greek word aion "age". Just because science has adopted it to mean billions of years doesn't mean that was the original meaning of the word. Bottom line the age of punishment for unbelievers is going to be a long time, so still best to avoid! LOL!
 

Todd

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Why does it matter if Hell will be eternal or not?
It only matters for the purpose of determining whether God is going to reconcile everyone to himself or not.
It all comes down to whether you believe God is gracious and merciful and his punishment has a purpose to correct and restore or that you believe God is vengeful and will torment unbeleivers for no purpose other than satisfaction.

If you believe Jesus was 100% victorious Hell cannot be eternal. If you think Jesus only died for those who believe in this lifetime than hell is either eternal or unbelievers cease to exist at some point, I guess...
 

floss

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But does anything really last forever? Even stars die after a few billion years.
Why not? God is eternal/everlasting. And he's giving everyone a chance to be part of His everlasting Kingdom as a FREE GIFT but he can't make you take it. Why are so many missionaries going around the world to preach the Gospel if they don't believe in Eternal Life? It's definitely not a game nor hobby. Many of them, including myself, have experiences the love of God, his power and the spirit testified HIS WORD IS TRUTH.

Matthew 24:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Many people don't believe the Gospel because the god of this world (satan) has blinded them. Only Jesus Christ can shine the light and lift the veil, then you can see the truth. Having a spiritual rebirth into God's family is a real experiences.

2 Corinthians 4:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
 

Damien50

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It only matters for the purpose of determining whether God is going to reconcile everyone to himself or not.
It all comes down to whether you believe God is gracious and merciful and his punishment has a purpose to correct and restore or that you believe God is vengeful and will torment unbeleivers for no purpose other than satisfaction.

If you believe Jesus was 100% victorious Hell cannot be eternal. If you think Jesus only died for those who believe in this lifetime than hell is either eternal or unbelievers cease to exist at some point, I guess...
I actually don't care. I don't believe true love pouring from our souls out to God can be achieved through a constant fear of His punishment. That's not how I have ever come to love anyone and while I'm not asserting that this a core theme for the Christian I believe instilling fear beyond the scope of what God has provided in the bible has been and still is a core tactic of evangelism. I didn't get saved to avoid Hell, I didn't get saved because I feared the Lord, I did get saved and continue to pursue a relationship with God because I love God despite my shortcomings and because I love him I typically try to not displease Him.

Hell has never mattered only loving God and striving to be obedient to his word.
 
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floss

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Again what is your point? Even if it's a billion years it still not forever! An Eon even in science has a beginning and an end. But since the ages in the bible are all measured in thousands of years, I tend to think that is more likely, but that's just my opinion, I don't know for sure.

Besides the word EON is derived from the greek word aion "age". Just because science has adopted it to mean billions of years doesn't mean that was the original meaning of the word. Bottom line the age of punishment for unbelievers is going to be a long time, so still best to avoid! LOL!
EON is an eternity, that's my point since no one know how long it is. Going back to the Greek didn't really prove it's not an eternity. It's like "we don't know how long an eon is, it could be billions and billions of years but NOT eternity. Most likely because EON is an eternity.
 

Helioform

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Many people don't believe the Gospel because the god of this world (satan) has blinded them. Only Jesus Christ can shine the light and lift the veil, then you can see the truth. Having a spiritual rebirth into God's family is a real experiences.
Christians are still in the minority in terms of percentage of the world's population so according to you there will be billions of people going to hell just for not believing in Jesus. To me this is pure insanity. There is just no way to justify this. I believe that only the way a person behaves is what is important and not their particular chosen saviour.
 

floss

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Why does it matter if Hell will be eternal or not?
It matter that hell is eternal. That should encourage more Christians to start preaching the Gospel to all creatures. A saved person should have no fear of hell, we should be going out getting people saved from eternal torment. Saying hell is not eternal give us an excuse to be laid back and less likely to get anybody saved.
 

floss

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Christians are still in the minority in terms of percentage of the world's population so according to you there will be billions of people going to hell just for not believing in Jesus. To me this is pure insanity. There is just no way to justify this. I believe that only the way a person behaves is what is important and not their particular chosen saviour.
Christianity will never be the majority. Yes, billions and billions of people are going to hell for not believing in Jesus. Why? because most Christians are lazy (included myself, still growing) and not obeying the Lord's command to preach the Gospel to all creature. If every Christian get 1 person saved, there wouldn't be many people tormented in hell. This world would be lit up by the Gospel instead of being in darkness and suffering.

Matthew 7:13-14 King James Version (KJV)
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
 

Damien50

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It matter that hell is eternal. That should encourage more Christians to start preaching the Gospel to all creatures. A saved person should have no fear of hell, we should be going out getting people saved from eternal torment. Saying hell is not eternal give us an excuse to be laid back and less likely to get anybody saved.
I get what your saying but in my opinion it's like telling someone

You're going to Hell if you don't profess Christ and acquire Stockholm syndrome

If these people don't, can't, won't believe in Hell let alone it's duration I don't see how that is pertinent to getting them saved. What's the purpose of being a Christian, why should they willingly serve God or even love Him? I don't see how simultaneously preaching salvation and Hell would stir a desire to establish a relationship with God, a God they might not know or really even want to know.
 

Helioform

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Yes, billions and billions of people are going to hell for not believing in Jesus. Why? because most Christians are lazy (included myself, still growing) and not obeying the Lord's command to preach the Gospel to all creature
No it's not because Christians are lazy. It's because you will never reach the entire world or be able to convert everyone because of genetic and cultural issues.
 

elsbet

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when you are born again it is your spirit that is born again, not your body or soul. That is why it is necessary to pick up your cross and crucify your flesh. Believers are to “destroy” the flesh in this lifetime. It’s part of the process of salvation that is called sanctification. (And yes good works born out of faith are part of it)

“Hell” is where the unbelievers soul and body will be “destroyed” so that their spirit can be reconciled to God.

That is part of the doctrine of apokatastasis.

"Hell” is where the unbelievers soul and body will be “destroyed” so that their spirit can be reconciled to God.


Where are you finding scripture for that? Serious question. It's reminiscent of Purgatory imo. Yikes.
 

floss

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No it's not because Christians are lazy. It's because you will never reach the entire world or be able to convert everyone because of genetic and cultural issues.
I believe the Gospel has circled around the entire world many time especially today with the capabilities of the INTERNET. sadly people are blinded to the truth by the power of satan, the god of this world.

watch this short clip, showing how God can move the Gospel to places you would think are un-receptive.

 

Todd

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"Hell” is where the unbelievers soul and body will be “destroyed” so that their spirit can be reconciled to God.

Where are you finding scripture for that? Serious question. It's reminiscent of Purgatory imo. Yikes.
It is all through out scripture.

From "Hope Beyond Hell. The Righteous Purpose of God's Judgement" by Gerry Beauchemin.

Examples of Purpose-Driven Judgment
Scripture makes it clear that God exhibits no variation or shadow of turning. He does not change (Ja. 1:17; Mal. 3:6).If God‘s past and present judgments are just, righteous, and purposeful, we can rest assured they will continue to be so in the future.

Let‘s look at some passages that demonstrate His positive purposes in judgment.

You refined us as silver…laid affliction on our backs.…We went through fire…But You brought us out to rich fulfillment (Ps. 66:10-12).

When Your judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness (Is. 26:9).

You have appointed them for judgment; O Rock, You have marked them for correction (Hab. 1:12).

Behold, happy is the man whom God corrects; Therefore do not despise the chastening of the Almighty. For He bruises, but He binds up; He wounds, but His hands make whole (Job 5:17-18).

Happy! Does the thought that God‘s judgments might have a wholesome purpose make you happy?

In trouble they visited You, they poured out a prayer when Your chastening was upon them (Is. 26:16).Is not ―prayer‖ purposeful?

And if by these things you are not reformed by Me, but walk contrary to Me, then I also will walk contrary to you, and I will punish you yet seven times for your sins (Le. 26:23-24). ―These things‖ refer to a list of judgments starting in verse 14. God, as a loving Father, persists in discipline until He achieves His goals, whatever it takes.

If they break My statutes and do not keep My commandments, then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. Nevertheless My loving-kindness I will not utterly take from him, nor allow My faithfulness to fail (Ps. 89:31-33).

Your judgments are right…in faithfulness You have afflicted me (Ps. 119:75).
Even in the midst of His rod, stripes, and afflictions, His loving-kindness is present and His faithfulness does not fail. For it is in faithfulness He afflicts. We expect ―loving-kindness and faithfulness from good parents in their disciplines, do we not? Do not these terms reveal the Father heart of God is His loving discipline of His children?

Because they rebelled against the words of God, and despised the counsel of the Most High, therefore He brought down their heart with labor.…Then they cried out to the Lord in their trouble, and He saved them out of their distresses (Ps. 107:11-13).

They cried to the Lord. They recognized their need of God and sincerely sought Him. What could be more purposeful with those who have despised God counsel?

It is good for me that I have been afflicted, that I may learn Your statutes (Ps. 119:71). God afflicts to teach. This is good!

Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I keep Your word (Ps. 119:67). God‘s afflictions clearly correct us.

When the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and purged the blood of Jerusalem from her midst, by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning…(Is. 4:4). He washes away filth by the spirit of judgment and burning.

The Lord will scatter you…you will serve gods, work of men's hands…But from there you will seek the Lord. (De.4:27-29)

When you are in distress and all these things have come upon you…you will return to the Lord…and listen to His voice. For the Lord…is a compassionate God. (De. 4:30-31 NAS)

You have stricken them, but they have not grieved; You have consumed them, but they have refused to receive correction….They are foolish; for they do not know…the judgment of their God (Jer. 5:3, 4). They were stricken so they would repent and consumed to receive correction. But they were foolish and did not understand His judgments. Do we?

Through deceit they refuse to know Me….therefore…I will refine them and try them (Jer. 9:6-7). Those who refuse to know Him will go through a process of refining and testing. Is purpose not evident in the word refine?

The fierce anger of the LORD will not turn back until He fully accomplishes the purposes of His heart. In days to come you will understand this (Jer. 30:24 NIV). God‘s judgment is proven to be measured and purposeful by the simple phrase, ―until He fully accomplishes the purposes of His heart. Can it be clearer?


I have driven them in My anger;…I will bring them back….for the good of them (Jer. 32:37-39). He drove them away, which ultimately was for their good. Was this not purpose ―driven judgment?

All the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy. For then I will restore to the peoples a pure language, that they all may call on the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one accord (Zep. 3:8-9). When His judgments have achieved their purpose, the people will be united. They will then call on God and serve Him!

Who can endure the day of His coming…stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner‘s fire and like launderer‘s soap…He will purify… and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer to the Lord an offering in righteousness (Mal. 3:2- 3). His judgments are a refiner‘s fire, purging their impurities that they may offer an offering in righteousness.

Judgment to the nations….till He put forth judgment to victory, in his name shall nations hope (Mt. 12:18-21 YLT). ―Judgment to victory with nations hoping in His name speaks of great purpose!

Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw [drag] all peoples to Myself (Jn. 12:31-32). When judgment comes, the enemy is cast out, and all peoples are dragged to Christ. Is this not judgment with a grand and glorious purpose?

Concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme (1Ti. 1:19b-20). Deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus (1Co. 5:4-5). Here are two examples of judgment with purpose: learning not to blaspheme and saving the spirit. Even Satan is used of God. God is always in control.

We shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written…―every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall [‗give praise‘—NAS] to God. So then each of us shall give account of himself to God (Ro. 14:10-12). (See also Ph. 2:9-11; Is. 45:22-25). Is this not evidence there is a glorious purpose in judgment?

My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, nor detest His correction; for whom the Lord loves He corrects, just as a father the son in whom he delights (Pr. 3:11-12). God chastens to correct, just as human parents do. Whom He loves He corrects. Whom does He not love?

If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. Now no chastening seems to be joyful… but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it (Hebrews 12:5-11).
 
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Todd

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EON is an eternity, that's my point since no one know how long it is. Going back to the Greek didn't really prove it's not an eternity. It's like "we don't know how long an eon is, it could be billions and billions of years but NOT eternity. Most likely because EON is an eternity.
Wow that is quite the amazing logic you have there! I don't think I can compete with that. LOL!
 
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