Does The Gospel Make Sense?

[Red Sky at Morning]

You can't know the Gnosis? Lol fine. I would hate for you to have to go down that long arduous road of repentance over and over again. Like I said. I try to ease suffering.

And faith is such an outward expression isn't it? So I'm wondering who would benefit.

I may not know the Gnosis but I know the Logos....

 

[Lady]

I remember Eve was promised to be able to know both good and evil.
Gnosis was and still is a reversal of what God wants man to know.
...tale as old as time, song as old as rhyme-beauty and the beast... (Disney fits perfectly here!)

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I remember Eve was promised to be able to know both good and evil.
Gnosis was and still is a reversal of what God wants man to know.
...tale as old as time, song as old as rhyme-beauty and the beast... (Disney fits perfectly here!)

You can know good and evil by choosing goodness and rejecting evil. God knows good and evil better than anyone, but he is completely holy, with no darkness in him at all.

 

[Lady]

Exactly, Red!
1John 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

 

[JoChris]

Daciple wrote that Gnosticism is witchcraft and that's a recurring theme with you superstitious folks.

And there is plenty of gospel in Gnosticism. Sure repentance isn't a major subject. But its hardly about witchcraft

Where in Gnosticism does it teach mankind is sinful and only faith (NOT gnosis) in Jesus Christ will result in salvation?
Direct quote and Link from Gnostic "gospel" please.

 

[JoChris]

Doesnt matter. There are sellouts of every race selling out their own kind for whatever blessings they can receive from those they are selling out to.



None of that actually addresses the differences in beliefs both testaments espouses though so nothing was contradicted. At least from my pov...

It just seems like the NT is forcibly superimposed over the OT. I dont agree with that and think its akin to me now writing a book and superimposing it over the NT...

From your position... you are being sincere there.
"Seems" does not equal "is".

 

[JoChris]

No that was the Holy Spirit speaking, not Christ. Jesus Christ=the lamb.
Even here the holy spirit is referring to creation/dissolution and are related to Brahma/Shiva....
this is the 3rd level of manifestation ie the microcosm. This stage represents the manifestation of time/creation etc.
The logos is the beyond causation/dissolution ie eternal.
Jesus Christ was an incarnation of the logos within creation so there are multiple themes coming together. However you should never mix them together.


Christ existed from the beginning, before He was revealed in person-hence, the reference to Christ as The Word in John 1.
No that was the logos.
Philo equated the logos with the christ concept...ie that the messiah of the jewish nation would be an incarnation of the logos.
However there have been many incarnations of the logos.
Don't give me "the only begotten..." stuff either because that doesn't refer to baby Jesus..it refers to the logos.

The logos/son.
Jesus spoke interchangeably as the son of man/Jesus Christ or the son/logos/image of God

You have to at least have a basic idea of what the terms mean to get how they're applied.

Read the whole of https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+1&version=KJV, clear physical description in 13-17. Where in the ***New Testament only ***does it state the Holy Spirit has a body?

 

[AspiringSoul]

What? I think you need to re read Revelations if you dont believe that this is Jesus Christ speaking, its very very very clear as to whom is speaking...

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

It is clear as day, the Son of man, which Jesus refers to Himself as, description of a Human Form, the pronoun of He His Him and of course the one that Lived, Died and is Alive forever more, who also has the keys of hell and death, that is Jesus Christ...

Jesus Christ is the incarnation of the logos. So we associate him with the Son...and with the term Christ.
The metaphysics related to the Son therefore usually get applied to 'christ' within the same type of context but it's like I was telling @Lady
The logos is much bigger than 'Christ'. Ie Christ/the annointed one AS the logos, was Philo's way of relating to this idea of the Logos incarnating into a single man...and there was no better archetype of perfection in the minds of any jew, than the messiah.

Meanwhile, we know the holy spirit proceeds from the Son.
My way of understanding the 2 ...or the 3
is like this
The Father is akin to the perfect light, the Essence of God.
This light is expressed through the prism of the eternal expression, the Logos/Image/Son of God.
I think of the logos as the universal consciousness and akin to an eternal ocean..and yet a prism revealing the qualities of God. The Father is known through the Son but the real power is in the light itself. The prism, reveals the light and in itself in most ways IS the light but in true theological sense, it is the prism revealing the light and not the light on it's own, but from the mystical sense what is the difference?

This phase of consciousness being eternal and perfect. YET the infinite expresses itself and so the next phase of consciousness ie of the Father revealing His nature, is where the ocean splits into multiple/almost infinite drops
This is akin to how the number 1 becomes manifest from the 0 which represents infinity.
from 1, we get, 2, 3 etc..infinite numbers and we get mathematics in form after form after form...unlimited forms.
This process of manifesting the 1 is the level called 'causation' ie creation
The First and the Last..and the level of consciousness connected here is the holy spirit.

The essence
the macrocosm
the microcosm


So long story short, the 'first and last' is not a reference to the logos/son but to the holy spirit specifically it refers to God's power of creation and dissolution.
in hinduism these levels are called
Brahman
Vishnu
Brahma and Shiva (creation and dissolution)
here, the holy spirit takes the role of the first and the last.

In sufi metaphysics the holy spirit is called the Sirr ul asrar, the secret of secrets, with the idea being that every individual spirit is connected with a unique aspect of the holy spirit and it is the holy spirit that's the intermediary between our self consciousness and the universal consciousness.

However in this particular vision, the holy spirit manifested in a form to John and being 'like a son of man' doesn't mean it was Jesus.

So here's how it plays out
chapter 1
the holy spirit appears in the form of a man
4 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire.

of course within this are clear 'holes' in the christian trinitarian doctrine that claims the holy spirit and son are co equals in Godhead with the Father.

Rev 2
To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

If the holy spirit is God, eplain this...actually don't, i know what you'll attempt to say, it is just a mind numbing thing for me to read.


11 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

What the SPIRIT says
not what Jesus says or Christ says or the Son says or the lamb says.


Chapter 3
2 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.

ie the holy spirit is not God.



Chapter 4
3 And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and ruby

HERE THE TRUE GOD VISION IS SEEN. This is different to the earlier vision of the holy spirit.

9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

11 “You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being.”

God sits on the throne and they all worship Him.

Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals.

THIS is the point where Jesus makes his appearance. Sitting on the right hand of God.
5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”

6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne

9 And they sang a new song, saying:“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reignb]">[b] on the earth.”
here they praise and speak to Jesus the lamb..they don't say

10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve YOU WHO IS our God,

because clearly Jesus is not God, they praise Jesus for what he did for God.


“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”

perhaps you should pay more intention instead of blindly following a roman pagan doctrine.

 

[Aero]

Where in Gnosticism does it teach mankind is sinful and only faith (NOT gnosis) in Jesus Christ will result in salvation?
Direct quote and Link from Gnostic "gospel" please.

Tertiary Structures of the Divine Mind

The Holy Spirit
Brought his and Barbelo’s divine autogenes Son to completion
In order that he could stand before the great Invisible Virgin Spirit
As the divine autogenes Christ
And honor Him with a mighty voice.

[The Son came through Providence].

The Invisible Spirit
Placed the divine autogenes over everything.
All authorities were subordinated to him.
The truth within him let him learn everything

[He is called by the highest name of all.
That name will be told only to those who are worthy to hear it
From the light, [which is the Christ,]

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-davies.html

Do not pierce yourself with the sword of sin. Do not burn yourself, O wretched one, with the fire of lust. Do not surrender yourself to barbarians like a prisoner, nor to savage beasts which want to trample upon you. For they are as lions which roar very loudly. Be not dead lest they trample upon you. You shall be man! It is possible for you through reasoning to conquer them.

But the man who does nothing is unworthy of (being called) rational man. The rational man is he who fears God. He who fears God does nothing insolent. And he who guards himself against doing anything insolent is one who keeps his guiding principle. Although he is a man who exists on earth, he makes himself like God.

But he who makes himself like God is one who does nothing unworthy of God, according to the statement of Paul, who has become like Christ.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/silvanus.html

PRAYER OF THE MESSENGER PAUL

Grant me your mercy.
My redeemer, redeem me,
for I am yours.

I came from you.
You are my mind:
give me birth.

You are my treasure:
open for me.

You are my fullness:
accept me.

You are my rest:
give me unlimited perfection.

I pray to you,
you who exist and preexisted,
in the name exalted above every name,
through Jesus the anointed,
lord of lords,
king of the eternal realms.
Give me your gifts, with no regret,
through the human child,
the spirit,
the advocate of truth.

Give me authority, I beg of you,
give healing for my body, as I beg you,
through the preacher of the gospel,
and redeem my enlightened soul forever, and my spirit,
and disclose to my mind the firstborn of the fullness of grace.

Grant what eyes of angels have not seen,
what ears of rulers have not heard,
and what has not arisen in the hearts of people,
who became angelic,
and after the image of the animate god
when it was formed in the beginning.
I have the faith of hope.

And bestow upon me
your beloved, chosen, blessed majesty,
you who are the firstborn, the first-conceived,
and the wonderful mystery of your house.

For yours is the power and the glory and the praise and the greatness,
forever and ever.

Amen.

Prayer of Paul (the) Apostle [or, Messenger].
In Peace.
Christ is holy.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/prayp-meyer.html

 

[Daciple]

And my qualm obviously isn't with you, but with the tyranny of the Church. For it has been my people who were cast out. Hunted down, and our works burned.

What exactly do you consider "The Church" because there is many different ideologies of what the "The Church" is. Are you referring to the Biblical Church? The one spoken about in the Bible, that simply acts as a community of believers that congregate together to show love kindness and support to each other and to hold each other accountable to what the Word of God states? Or are you speak of the Roman Catholic Church that hijacked Christianity mixed it with Paganism and then went around murdering Bible believing Christians, tried to keep the Word from them by making it illegal to own and translating it to Latin?

I am not a fan of the Roman Catholic Church by any means, many dont seem to realize that the most persecuted group were those who believed in the Bible and didnt want to submit to their Pagan Ideologies. Then once they murdered off most of them and were able to get almost all of the other believers converted to Roman Catholicism, eventually came the Protestant Movement and thus started yet another round of murders of Bible Believing Christians by the Roman Catholic Church. I dont deny that the RCC murdered Gnostics and literally anyone of any Faith that didnt submit to their Theocracy, but I think most refuse to acknowledge that it was Bible Believing Christians that were the most persecuted of any groups under both the Roman Catholic Church and the Roman State prior to its high jacking of Christianity...

None of you are really getting into the debate about dualism.

Didnt know that dualism was even mentioned let alone having anything to do with the Gospel or how it doesnt make sense.

Tell me how good can even exist without evil.

Why exactly are you convinced that good can not exist without evil? I know that good can exist without evil, and I believe that Adam and Eve shows good existing without evil. They were provided everything, everything was perfect, they had nothing to fear, nothing to worry about, there was no evil present in anyway. It wasnt until the ate of the tree of knowledge that evil became a reality for them and thus they had to suffer the consequences for their disobedience.

But lets go ahead and say that good couldnt have existed without evil. Does evil exist now? I believe that the entire concept of duality can be ended once judgement has taken place. By this I mean, by the time of Judgement all creation will have seen Evil, and they will have seen just how awful and terrible Evil is and why Gods Judgement against it is Righteous. Everyone and everything will have full knowledge of God, His plan, Evil and why it needs to be destroyed. Once it is destroyed all that is left is Good, so since we all had knowledge of Evil we all completely understand how terrible it is and we all witness the destruction of Evil itself, then everyone will accept their Righteous Punishment or their Reward by Grace thru Faith. There will be no more "need" of Evil...

People start to make excuses for things, because we all disagree.

So is that what you are doing when you disagree? Or is it just those who believe in Biblical Christianity that you apply that label to?

I don't think there is any real evidence to suggest free masonry is the direct descendants of Gnosticism.

Really? I beg to differ...

Morals and Dogma, for example, has allotted more than forty pages to Gnosticism and its connection with Freemasonry. Albert Pike, the book's author, offers the following explanation of Gnosticism:

"The Gnostics derived their leading doctrines and ideas from Plato and Philo, the Zend-avesta and the Kabalah,and the Sacred books of India and Egypt; and thus introduced into the bosom of Christianity the cosmological and theosophical speculations, which had formed the larger portion of the ancient religions of the Orient, joined to those of the Egyptian, Greek, and Jewish doctrines, which the New-Platonists had equally adopted in the Occident" (Morals and Dogma, 248).

https://www.biblebelievers.org.au/masonic.htm

"The Kabalistic doctrine was long the religion of the Sage and the Savant; because, like Freemasonry, it incessantly tends toward spiritual perfection, and the fusion of the creeds and Nationalities of Mankind. In the eyes of the Kabalist, all men are his brothers; and their relative ignorance is, to him, but a reason for instructing them. There were illustrious Kabalists among the Egyptians and Greeks, whose doctrines the Orthodox Church has accepted; and among the Arabs were many, whose wisdom was not slighted by the Mediæval Church.

The Sages proudly wore the name of Kabalists. The Kabalah embodied a noble philosophy, pure, not mysterious, but symbolic. It taught the doctrine of the Unity of God, the art of knowing and explaining the essence and operations of the Supreme Being, of spiritual powers and natural forces, and of determining their action by symbolic figures; by the arrangement of the alphabet, the combinations of numbers, the inversion of letters in writing and the concealed meanings which they claimed to discover therein. The Kabalah is the key of the occult sciences; and the Gnostics were born of the Kabalists.

The science of numbers represented not only arithmetical qualities, but also all grandeur, all proportion. By it we necessarily arrive at the discovery of the Principle or First Cause of things, called at the present day THE ABSOLUTE. Or UNITY,--that loftiest term to which all philosophy directs itself; that imperious necessity of the human mind, that pivot round which it is compelled to group the aggregate of its ideas:

Unity, this source, this centre of all systematic order, this principle of existence, this central point, unknown in its essence, but manifest in its effects; Unity, that sublime centre to which the chain of causes necessarily ascends, was the august Idea toward which all the ideas of Pythagoras converged. He refused the title of Sage, which means one who knows. He invented, and applied to himself that of Philosopher, signifying one who is fond of or studies things secret and occult. The astronomy which he mysteriously taught, was astrology: his science of numbers was based on Kabalistical principles.

The Ancients, and Pythagoras himself, whose real principles have not been always understood, never meant to ascribe to numbers, that is to say, to abstract signs, any special virtue. But the Sages of Antiquity concurred in recognizing a ONE FIRST CAUSE (material or spiritual) of the existence of the Universe. Thence, UNITY became the symbol of the Supreme Deity. It was made to express, to represent God; but without attributing to the mere, number ONE any divine or supernatural virtue."

By Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma, 1871, p. 625-626

I dont have the time and energy to dig thru all the Literature and quote them for you and others that I once did, but you can if you choose to, and if you do you will find that all of the authors of Freemasonic Literature, including Albert Pike who wrote basically the Masons Encyclopedia all say that Freemasonry and Gnosticism are intimately intertwined. You can disagree if youd like but I take the authors and the creators of Freemasonrys word over yours...

I think the CIA has played most of you as fools.

The CIA huh? Please explain how the CIA has me personally played as a fool? I would say that I believe those who accept Gnosticism, Kabbalahism, New Age, Luciferianism ect, all different titles for the same Ancient Mystery Religion, are the ones who have been Spiritually fooled, as all of you are supporting the literal Spirituality of those who we consider part of the Illuminati. AKA the founders of the CIA and every other governmental agency...

There is just so much generalization and confirmation bias floating around.

Couldnt the same be said for those who reject Christianity, or again is it just Christians?

 

[AspiringSoul]

Read the whole of https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+1&version=KJV, clear physical description in 13-17. Where in the ***New Testament only ***does it state the Holy Spirit has a body?

This is a mystical experience. In such experiences the incorporeal realities take form in corporeal forms ie spirit takes the form of a physical man.
This is how the physical brain of a man, interprets information from the unseen, creating a context through which we can understand/relate to it.

Of course if you knew this then you'd know this is what Gnosis is about..and you have no knowledge of real gnosis.

if you attain gnosis of the sky, it will come to you in a physical form, as a person
hence in nature religions they personified nature as 'gods/goddesses' ie Gaiah, the spirit of the earth.
Surya, the spirit of the sun etc.

Just like God appears in Daniel 7

“thrones were set in place,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat.
His clothing was as white as snow;
the hair of his head was white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire,
and its wheels were all ablaze.

God is spirit is He not?
this is not meant to be taken literally just like the descriptions in Rev are not meant to be taken
however i find it rather odd you are pursuing yet another tiresome point which you'll always fail to ever make with me.

Fact is i've just proven to you through direct quotations from Revelation that the holy spirit, Father and Son/lamb all make appearances in a clear context where they are not the same 'entity'.

The lamb is seen sitting with God on the throne, at his right hand from Rev 3
i have explained from the perspective of cosmology how the 'first and last' relate to the 3rd level of consciousness pertainingto the microcosm, the holy spirit etc...'first and last' =causality=Brahma and Shiva etc.

Unfortunately, you are too closed minded or ignorant at this point to understand. So I hope one day you will and I do not actually mean this as an insult.

In the past few days, the christians have seen evidence from the NT that the Father is the one who holds real power and the son can do 'nothing' without the Father.
Yet i have read christians say
'the Immanence of Jesus'
'Jesus is omnipresent'

I've seen you people quote God's words in the OT and say 'jesus/christ says'

now this.

Never in my life have i seen more evidence of blatant polytheism in my life.

it is no wonder Jesus doesn't know you and wants nothing to do with you.
I truely mean this.

 

[AspiringSoul]

it is worse when you are given the evidence and then see it..and then show the full extent of your roman pagan polythiestic ideas
you guys have been pissing on the bible for too long

 

[AspiringSoul]

What exactly do you consider "The Church" because there is many different ideologies of what the "The Church" is. Are you referring to the Biblical Church? The one spoken about in the Bible, that simply acts as a community of believers that congregate together to show love kindness and support to each other and to hold each other accountable to what the Word of God states? Or are you speak of the Roman Catholic Church that hijacked Christianity mixed it with Paganism and then went around murdering Bible believing Christians, tried to keep the Word from them by making it illegal to own and translating it to Latin?

I am not a fan of the Roman Catholic Church by any means, many dont seem to realize that the most persecuted group were those who believed in the Bible and didnt want to submit to their Pagan Ideologies. Then once they murdered off most of them and were able to get almost all of the other believers converted to Roman Catholicism, eventually came the Protestant Movement and thus started yet another round of murders of Bible Believing Christians by the Roman Catholic Church. I dont deny that the RCC murdered Gnostics and literally anyone of any Faith that didnt submit to their Theocracy, but I think most refuse to acknowledge that it was Bible Believing Christians that were the most persecuted of any groups under both the Roman Catholic Church and the Roman State prior to its high jacking of Christianity...



Didnt know that dualism was even mentioned let alone having anything to do with the Gospel or how it doesnt make sense.



Why exactly are you convinced that good can not exist without evil? I know that good can exist without evil, and I believe that Adam and Eve shows good existing without evil. They were provided everything, everything was perfect, they had nothing to fear, nothing to worry about, there was no evil present in anyway. It wasnt until the ate of the tree of knowledge that evil became a reality for them and thus they had to suffer the consequences for their disobedience.

But lets go ahead and say that good couldnt have existed without evil. Does evil exist now? I believe that the entire concept of duality can be ended once judgement has taken place. By this I mean, by the time of Judgement all creation will have seen Evil, and they will have seen just how awful and terrible Evil is and why Gods Judgement against it is Righteous. Everyone and everything will have full knowledge of God, His plan, Evil and why it needs to be destroyed. Once it is destroyed all that is left is Good, so since we all had knowledge of Evil we all completely understand how terrible it is and we all witness the destruction of Evil itself, then everyone will accept their Righteous Punishment or their Reward by Grace thru Faith. There will be no more "need" of Evil...



So is that what you are doing when you disagree? Or is it just those who believe in Biblical Christianity that you apply that label to?



Really? I beg to differ...

https://www.biblebelievers.org.au/masonic.htm



I dont have the time and energy to dig thru all the Literature and quote them for you and others that I once did, but you can if you choose to, and if you do you will find that all of the authors of Freemasonic Literature, including Albert Pike who wrote basically the Masons Encyclopedia all say that Freemasonry and Gnosticism are intimately intertwined. You can disagree if youd like but I take the authors and the creators of Freemasonrys word over yours...



The CIA huh? Please explain how the CIA has me personally played as a fool? I would say that I believe those who accept Gnosticism, Kabbalahism, New Age, Luciferianism ect, all different titles for the same Ancient Mystery Religion, are the ones who have been Spiritually fooled, as all of you are supporting the literal Spirituality of those who we consider part of the Illuminati. AKA the founders of the CIA and every other governmental agency...



Couldnt the same be said for those who reject Christianity, or again is it just Christians?

The mere fact you believe in the trinitarian doctrine from the 3rd century AD means you believe in roman paganism mate.
you can't really conceal that basic fact.

The mere fact that Jesus said he can do nothing without the Father
and yet the doctrine makes Jesus coequal in Godhead with the Father, means you are following something other than the New testament.
Something the romans established.

there's not a lot you can do other than accept it is clearly an anti-christian belief.

 

[Aero]

What exactly do you consider "The Church" because there is many different ideologies of what the "The Church" is. Are you referring to the Biblical Church? The one spoken about in the Bible, that simply acts as a community of believers that congregate together to show love kindness and support to each other and to hold each other accountable to what the Word of God states? Or are you speak of the Roman Catholic Church that hijacked Christianity mixed it with Paganism and then went around murdering Bible believing Christians, tried to keep the Word from them by making it illegal to own and translating it to Latin?

I am not a fan of the Roman Catholic Church by any means, many dont seem to realize that the most persecuted group were those who believed in the Bible and didnt want to submit to their Pagan Ideologies. Then once they murdered off most of them and were able to get almost all of the other believers converted to Roman Catholicism, eventually came the Protestant Movement and thus started yet another round of murders of Bible Believing Christians by the Roman Catholic Church. I dont deny that the RCC murdered Gnostics and literally anyone of any Faith that didnt submit to their Theocracy, but I think most refuse to acknowledge that it was Bible Believing Christians that were the most persecuted of any groups under both the Roman Catholic Church and the Roman State prior to its high jacking of Christianity...

Any organized religious institution with a top down power structure. Which basically means every church in America. Because the people at the top of the Church benefit in ways the congregation doesn't. So we agree that religion has been hijacked. True churches of the people have existed.

Didnt know that dualism was even mentioned let alone having anything to do with the Gospel or how it doesnt make sense.

That's the whole point. Nobody brings up Dualism, yet it's an important aspect of Gnosticism.

Why exactly are you convinced that good can not exist without evil? I know that good can exist without evil, and I believe that Adam and Eve shows good existing without evil. They were provided everything, everything was perfect, they had nothing to fear, nothing to worry about, there was no evil present in anyway. It wasnt until the ate of the tree of knowledge that evil became a reality for them and thus they had to suffer the consequences for their disobedience.

But lets go ahead and say that good couldnt have existed without evil. Does evil exist now? I believe that the entire concept of duality can be ended once judgement has taken place. By this I mean, by the time of Judgement all creation will have seen Evil, and they will have seen just how awful and terrible Evil is and why Gods Judgement against it is Righteous. Everyone and everything will have full knowledge of God, His plan, Evil and why it needs to be destroyed. Once it is destroyed all that is left is Good, so since we all had knowledge of Evil we all completely understand how terrible it is and we all witness the destruction of Evil itself, then everyone will accept their Righteous Punishment or their Reward by Grace thru Faith. There will be no more "need" of Evil...

Never said I was convinced. Pretty sure anyway. Think of me as an explorer.

https://www.biblebelievers.org.au/masonic.htm

Idk where you find these sources. But that's not a good one.

I dont have the time and energy to dig thru all the Literature and quote them for you and others that I once did, but you can if you choose to, and if you do you will find that all of the authors of Freemasonic Literature, including Albert Pike who wrote basically the Masons Encyclopedia all say that Freemasonry and Gnosticism are intimately intertwined. You can disagree if youd like but I take the authors and the creators of Freemasonrys word over yours...

I'm more interested in what the ghost of Albert Pike has to say. So maybe I'll look into that. But more importantly I think that everything is intimately intertwined. Gnosticism is more intimate with Christianity. If you do your own research.

The CIA huh? Please explain how the CIA has me personally played as a fool? I would say that I believe those who accept Gnosticism, Kabbalahism, New Age, Luciferianism ect, all different titles for the same Ancient Mystery Religion, are the ones who have been Spiritually fooled, as all of you are supporting the literal Spirituality of those who we consider part of the Illuminati. AKA the founders of the CIA and every other governmental agency...

Lol if you think New Ageism is a serious threat, than yes. I think the CIA is taking you for a ride.

Couldnt the same be said for those who reject Christianity, or again is it just Christians?

But if we are the true followers of Christ, we aren't rejecting anything. It is you who are doing most of the rejecting. I'm merely a listener and witness to Gods work.

 

[JoChris]

Tertiary Structures of the Divine Mind

The Holy Spirit
Brought his and Barbelo’s divine autogenes Son to completion
In order that he could stand before the great Invisible Virgin Spirit
As the divine autogenes Christ
And honor Him with a mighty voice.

[The Son came through Providence].

The Invisible Spirit
Placed the divine autogenes over everything.
All authorities were subordinated to him.
The truth within him let him learn everything

[He is called by the highest name of all.
That name will be told only to those who are worthy to hear it
From the light, [which is the Christ,]

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-davies.html

Do not pierce yourself with the sword of sin. Do not burn yourself, O wretched one, with the fire of lust. Do not surrender yourself to barbarians like a prisoner, nor to savage beasts which want to trample upon you. For they are as lions which roar very loudly. Be not dead lest they trample upon you. You shall be man! It is possible for you through reasoning to conquer them.

But the man who does nothing is unworthy of (being called) rational man. The rational man is he who fears God. He who fears God does nothing insolent. And he who guards himself against doing anything insolent is one who keeps his guiding principle. Although he is a man who exists on earth, he makes himself like God.

But he who makes himself like God is one who does nothing unworthy of God, according to the statement of Paul, who has become like Christ.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/silvanus.html

PRAYER OF THE MESSENGER PAUL

Grant me your mercy.
My redeemer, redeem me,
for I am yours.

I came from you.
You are my mind:
give me birth.

You are my treasure:
open for me.

You are my fullness:
accept me.

You are my rest:
give me unlimited perfection.

I pray to you,
you who exist and preexisted,
in the name exalted above every name,
through Jesus the anointed,
lord of lords,
king of the eternal realms.
Give me your gifts, with no regret,
through the human child,
the spirit,
the advocate of truth.

Give me authority, I beg of you,
give healing for my body, as I beg you,
through the preacher of the gospel,
and redeem my enlightened soul forever, and my spirit,
and disclose to my mind the firstborn of the fullness of grace.

Grant what eyes of angels have not seen,
what ears of rulers have not heard,
and what has not arisen in the hearts of people,
who became angelic,
and after the image of the animate god
when it was formed in the beginning.
I have the faith of hope.

And bestow upon me
your beloved, chosen, blessed majesty,
you who are the firstborn, the first-conceived,
and the wonderful mystery of your house.

For yours is the power and the glory and the praise and the greatness,
forever and ever.

Amen.

Prayer of Paul (the) Apostle [or, Messenger].
In Peace.
Christ is holy.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/prayp-meyer.html

Prayer of Paul Estimated 150-300 AD. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/prayerpaul.html

So many phrases and names above with a totally different style of writing to genuine books of New Testament!
e.g. WHERE is Barbelo, autogenes, invisible virgin Spirit in the REAL bible?

Where are statements like these in Gnostic Gospels:
Romans 10: 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he [God the Father] hath made him [Jesus] to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his [Jesus'] blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

No politician style waffle. Every statement clear and concise. Faith in Jesus Christ is what saves, not Gnosis.

 

[JoChris]

Any organized religious institution with a top down power structure. Which basically means every church in America. Because the people at the top of the Church benefit in ways the congregation doesn't. So we agree that religion has been hijacked. True churches of the people have existed.

That's the whole point. Nobody brings up Dualism, yet it's an important aspect of Gnosticism.

Never said I was convinced. Pretty sure anyway. Think of me as an explorer.

Idk where you find these sources. But that's not a good one.

I'm more interested in what the ghost of Albert Pike has to say. So maybe I'll look into that. But more importantly I think that everything is intimately intertwined. Gnosticism is more intimate with Christianity. If you do your own research.

Lol if you think New Ageism is a serious threat, than yes. I think the CIA is taking you for a ride.

But if we are the true followers of Christ, we aren't rejecting anything. It is you who are doing most of the rejecting. I'm merely a listener and witness to Gods work.

A true follower of Jesus follows the true Light of the world revealed in Holy scripture, recorded by writers who know Jesus personally. True followers love the Truth.

From Jesus' prayer for his apostles:
John 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

Not gnosis. Not mystical revelations. Not hidden knowledge.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[KoncreteMind]

From your position... you are being sincere there.
"Seems" does not equal "is".

Well I gave a pretty specific example to which you did not address. Which is fine of course as no one is obligated to. But I dont know why the convo continued without addressing the point that was already made...

 

[JoChris]

This is a mystical experience. In such experiences the incorporeal realities take form in corporeal forms ie spirit takes the form of a physical man.
This is how the physical brain of a man, interprets information from the unseen, creating a context through which we can understand/relate to it.

Of course if you knew this then you'd know this is what Gnosis is about..and you have no knowledge of real gnosis.

if you attain gnosis of the sky, it will come to you in a physical form, as a person
hence in nature religions they personified nature as 'gods/goddesses' ie Gaiah, the spirit of the earth.
Surya, the spirit of the sun etc.

Just like God appears in Daniel 7

“thrones were set in place,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat.
His clothing was as white as snow;
the hair of his head was white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire,
and its wheels were all ablaze.

God is spirit is He not?
this is not meant to be taken literally just like the descriptions in Rev are not meant to be taken
however i find it rather odd you are pursuing yet another tiresome point which you'll always fail to ever make with me.

Fact is i've just proven to you through direct quotations from Revelation that the holy spirit, Father and Son/lamb all make appearances in a clear context where they are not the same 'entity'.

The lamb is seen sitting with God on the throne, at his right hand from Rev 3
i have explained from the perspective of cosmology how the 'first and last' relate to the 3rd level of consciousness pertainingto the microcosm, the holy spirit etc...'first and last' =causality=Brahma and Shiva etc.

Unfortunately, you are too closed minded or ignorant at this point to understand. So I hope one day you will and I do not actually mean this as an insult.

In the past few days, the christians have seen evidence from the NT that the Father is the one who holds real power and the son can do 'nothing' without the Father.
Yet i have read christians say
'the Immanence of Jesus'
'Jesus is omnipresent'

I've seen you people quote God's words in the OT and say 'jesus/christ says'

now this.

Never in my life have i seen more evidence of blatant polytheism in my life.

it is no wonder Jesus doesn't know you and wants nothing to do with you.
I truely mean this.

Anyone who reads Revelation 1 can see it refers to Jesus. You are being willfully blind.

If believing the Bible as the infallible, inspired and inerrant Word of God makes me (according to you) narrow-minded, with no knowledge of Gnosis and whatever label you choose to use - GOOD. From a believer of false doctrines and heresies which clearly contradict the writings of apostles who KNEW Jesus that is a genuine compliment.

The bible clearly contradicts you. From Gospel of John, an actual apostle of Jesus, not ramblings written 5 centuries later:

John 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

A non-Christian is no where near God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

[Aero]

Prayer of Paul Estimated 150-300 AD. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/prayerpaul.html

So many phrases and names above with a totally different style of writing to genuine books of New Testament!
e.g. WHERE is Barbelo, autogenes, invisible virgin Spirit in the REAL bible?

Where are statements like these in Gnostic Gospels:
Romans 10: 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he [God the Father] hath made him [Jesus] to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his [Jesus'] blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

No politician style waffle. Every statement clear and concise. Faith in Jesus Christ is what saves, not Gnosis.

Oh wow. That's not old enough for you? Not authentic enough? You need some fragments from a page from 90 years earlier instead. As if that would suddenly dissuade you. Well I'm sorry to tell you but none of that dating stuff proves anything. It only raises more questions to those who seek the knowledge. People seem to agree that they had the capabilities to write everything down, and preserve it. I want to know why the gospel of Thomas didn't get a book.

And Gnosis is faith in Jesus Christ. For it was Christ who brought it to earth. Those who don't know are ignorant. Ensnared in their own beastly instincts. That's called salvation from what people call sin! It's just not written the way you want it. It's not oppressive enough I guess. People from the Church told you it's heresy, or did the Holy Spirit tell you?

 

[The Zone]

Oh wow. That's not old enough for you? Not authentic enough? You need some fragments from a page from 90 years earlier instead. As if that would suddenly dissuade you. Well I'm sorry to tell you but none of that dating stuff proves anything. It only raises more questions to those who seek the knowledge. People seem to agree that they had the capabilities to write everything down, and preserve it. I want to know why the gospel of Thomas didn't get a book.

And Gnosis is faith in Jesus Christ. For it was Christ who brought it to earth. Those who don't know are ignorant. Ensnared in their own beastly instincts. That's called salvation from what people call sin! It's just not written the way you want it. It's not oppressive enough I guess. People from the Church told you it's heresy, or did the Holy Spirit tell you?