Does The Gospel Make Sense?

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by Red Sky at Morning, Oct 19, 2017.

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Does the Gospel make sense to you?

  1. Absolutely, I'm in!

    16 vote(s)
    100.0%
  2. Nah, it's too confusing...

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I'm listening, not sure yet...

    0 vote(s)
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  1. Red Sky at Morning

    Red Sky at Morning Star

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    I have been on this forum long enough to have interacted with a number of people who claim that the Gospel makes no sense to them.

    The Book of Romans sets out the main points of the simple Gospel message... I set it out as explained on https://www.gotquestions.org/Romans-road-salvation.html

    Question: "What is the Romans Road to salvation?"

    Answer:
    The Romans Road to salvation is a way of explaining the good news of salvation using verses from the Book of Romans. It is a simple yet powerful method of explaining why we need salvation, how God provided salvation, how we can receive salvation, and what are the results of salvation.

    The first verse on the Romans Road to salvation is Romans 3:23, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." We have all sinned. We have all done things that are displeasing to God. There is no one who is innocent. Romans 3:10-18 gives a detailed picture of what sin looks like in our lives. The second Scripture on the Romans Road to salvation, Romans 6:23, teaches us about the consequences of sin - "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." The punishment that we have earned for our sins is death. Not just physical death, but eternal death!

    The third verse on the Romans Road to salvation picks up where Romans 6:23 left off, "but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 5:8declares, "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Jesus Christ died for us! Jesus' death paid for the price of our sins. Jesus' resurrection proves that God accepted Jesus' death as the payment for our sins.

    The fourth stop on the Romans Road to salvation is Romans 10:9, "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Because of Jesus' death on our behalf, all we have to do is believe in Him, trusting His death as the payment for our sins - and we will be saved! Romans 10:13 says it again, "for everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Jesus died to pay the penalty for our sins and rescue us from eternal death. Salvation, the forgiveness of sins, is available to anyone who will trust in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

    The final aspect of the Romans Road to salvation is the results of salvation. Romans 5:1 has this wonderful message, "Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Through Jesus Christ we can have a relationship of peace with God. Romans 8:1 teaches us, "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Because of Jesus' death on our behalf, we will never be condemned for our sins. Finally, we have this precious promise of God from Romans 8:38-39, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

    Would you like to follow the Romans Road to salvation? If so, here is a simple prayer you can pray to God. Saying this prayer is a way to declare to God that you are relying on Jesus Christ for your salvation. The words themselves will not save you. Only faith in Jesus Christ can provide salvation! "God, I know that I have sinned against you and am deserving of punishment. But Jesus Christ took the punishment that I deserve so that through faith in Him I could be forgiven. With your help, I place my trust in You for salvation. Thank You for Your wonderful grace and forgiveness - the gift of eternal life! Amen!"

    So my question - does the message of the Gospel make sense? In my opinion it certainly does IF you believe the foundations on which that message rides.
     
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  2. AspiringSoul

    AspiringSoul Star

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    There are a lot of times when ive conversed with a christian and asked them to read the tao te ching translation
    they acknowledge it, some even say they've heard of it
    but few have actually expressed their direct thoughts on the matter at hand.
    I wish i could engage with people in more meaningful discussions on here.

    Now im not trying to derail your thread but why would people write such texts?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    don't you think people have pondered over these subjects enough to author books in order to help people understand the NT?

    Taost philosophy is brilliant, i have never actively lived according to it's ideas but if you understand it you can easily understand what Paul was TRYING to explain, without all his explanations
    you just 'get' what it is he's saying.

    kind of a random but this pertains to taoist philosophy
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Aero

    Aero Star

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    Obligatory promotion of Gnosticism in 3, 2, 1...

    I'm kidding, I'm only trying to prove a point. Not really trying to be philosophical either. But the "Road to Salvation", where we are all doomed sounds like an awfully familiar sales pitch. One we have seen and heard a million times a day. It's called fear of loss. It's like the only way door to door salesmen actually sell anything. There's plenty of other dirty sales tricks, but think about this for a minute.

    Isn't it concerning how I can diminish Christian verses so easily? It concerns me, so I wonder about the whole foundation it is built upon. Jesus didn't need door to door salesmen. But the Church did. So I think there really are two different roads. And the Church road is a total lie. Most Churches mean well I'm sure, but it is a lie. Because repentance is the most redundant idea in the world.

    No amount of spin will change that, and I can see it coming already. Repenting is not some grueling gauntlet of self loathing and personal conquest. You simply have to believe it in your heart. And the Church will accept you and your donation. It's all too easy, like this is the stuff for the simple minds. I hope that doesn't come off as harsh, and you Christians will hear me out. I'm trying to make the case that it's more frightening to live under the Churches lies, than whatever hell is.
     
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  4. JoChris

    JoChris Star

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    Here's why:
    1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils**; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

    ** Taoism isn't all nice peace philosophical teachings. There is a theology of sorts. A lot of magic, rituals and fear of evil spirits too.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/taoism/beliefs/gods.shtml
     
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  5. JoChris

    JoChris Star

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    I remember in 2006/7 when I came back to God I thought it was all so obvious. I honestly believed that I explained and showed atheists/ non-Christians all the evidence to support the claims of the bible any reasonable person would see exactly what I now saw.

    I now believe the bible a lot more. They cannot see because they are spiritually blind. Christians can preach the Gospel but only God will open their spiritual eyes.

    2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
    4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    1 Corinthians 2: 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
    13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
    14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
     
  6. AspiringSoul

    AspiringSoul Star

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    taoist philosophy is not the same as the taoist folk religion which inc shinto and is very obviously polythiestic and satanic.
    It's a bit like comparing an operating system to software.


    Lao Tzu wrote the tao te ching but the philosophy was supposed to be a lot more ancient than him
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laozi
    he was born in 604BC
    so yeh a lot older than Christianity.

    the Tao te ching contains any new testament themes within it

    here is the link so if you wish to know what it is im talking about read it
    https://terebess.hu/english/tao/gia.html

    A man is born gentle and weak.
    At his death he is hard and stiff.
    Green plants are tender and filled with sap.
    At their death they are withered and dry.


    Therefore the stiff and unbending is the disciple of death.
    The gentle and yielding is the disciple of life.


    Thus an army without flexibility never wins a battle.
    A tree that is unbending is easily broken.


    The hard and strong will fall.
    The soft and weak will overcome.


    this was never expressed more than in the example of Jesus.



    Under heaven nothing is more soft and yielding than water.
    Yet for attacking the solid and strong, nothing is better;
    It has no equal.
    The weak can overcome the strong;
    The supple can overcome the stiff.
    Under heaven everyone knows this,
    Yet no one puts it into practice.
    Therefore the sage says:
    He who takes upon himself the humiliation of the people
    is fit to rule them.
    He who takes upon himself the country's disasters deserves
    to be king of the universe.
    The truth often sounds paradoxical.



    and again this was never expressed more than in the example of Jesus


    and so on..
    perhaps before you judge you should read.
    this philosophy is basically ancient oriental wisdom.
     
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  7. Daciple

    Daciple Established

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    Anyone who has a heart inclined to reject any belief system can find a flaw in it to satisfy their rejection of said belief system. The same exact thing can be said for Islam or Judaism or Mormonism, Catholicism, even Buddhism and Hinduism. Your door to door salesman rejection of the Gospel is just as easily applied to Islam which continually states if you dont believe in Allah and Muhammad you go to Hell.

    Yet Jesus is the one who talks about Hell more than any other figure in the entire Bible, why? Because its real and the Entire Purpose of His coming was to save people from Hell. Jesus even prays for those who will be sent to testify of Him so that others will believe in Him because of their word:

    John 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
    19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
    20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;


    What exactly is the Church to you?

    May I ask is there a call in Islam for those who believe in Islam to gather together? Does the Holy Text of Islam state that those who believe in Islam must pay money to support the community?

    If so what is the difference between that and a Church?

    According to who? You? The Word of God? Jesus? God?

    In case you dont understand Jesus Himself came and died for the Church, to present it spotless to the Father, so where is the lie again?

    Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
    26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
    27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
    28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
    29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
    30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
    31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
    32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

    I dont think you understand the Church properly, I dont believe many so called Christians in 1st World Countries understand the Church properly. I am willing to say I didnt understand the Church properly either, until I have experienced a True Church that points me and has shown me what the actual Church is. The building means nothing, it is the body of believers, and until you are in the midst of a body of Born Again Believers who love you and cherish you and help you and strengthen you and disciple you and hold you accountable then you my friend have zero understanding of what Church is really is.

    However I understand why you and many have such an aversion to Church, because men are greedy, and because most of the Churches in 1st World Countries dont function as the True Church does, there is no Power or Spirit in them because God is not there. They are more concerned with Worldly things such as Materialism and Money. That isnt the Church Jesus died for tho, Jesus died for the body of believers who function as community that act out of Christs love in their hearts. Again if you arent in one, you cant possible understand what I mean, you may have an idea but you wont truly understand. I really didnt until the Lord took me out of the false powerless "Church" I was in and placed me in one where the Gospel is preached and people who were complete and total strangers to me a year and half ago are now closer to me than my family. Who have poured out love and mercy and grace and kindness as no other people I have ever met have. They support me and my family in hard times, they pray for us, they boost us when we are struggling in faith and in hard times. I cant even begin to speak of the goodness of the Church. I hope one day you are Born Again and get to experience a Real Church...

    I can tell you the Church isnt a lie, do lies come from those who are in so called Churches? Yes but once you experience a Real Church you will understand the difference immediately...

    Yet almost no one wants to do it. You havent, so why?

    Why worry about money, what does that really have to do with the Church as taught in the Bible? The fact is Repenting while seemingly simple is one of if not the hardest things in the World to do, if it was so easy then everyone would do it. Everyone would Repent, Believe, be Saved and never Sin again, but guess what, absolutely no one on Earth has ever done it, ever.

    Repentance unto belief and Repentance from Sin are 2 different things, the Repentance unto belief is the easier one, yet it clearly isnt easy or you and everyone else would actually do it, however a very tiny percentage of people actually Repent unto belief in Christ. Its easier for people to want to work their way into Heaven, than to Repent unto belief in Christ. That is literally the method of getting into Heaven in every other belief system in the World.

    Now Repentance from Sin is a daily continual struggle, it is grueling, and about personal conquest, conquest of your Sin by Faith and dying to self. Its extremely hard to do, I struggle with Sin all day long, and as soon as I think I have something licked it flares back up. The struggle is real as they say, but thats ok because I can see a greater divine purpose in that struggle and that is the continual need to depend on Christ instead of myself. If I could overcome all Sin then it is assured that my reliance on Christ would start to diminish and I am sure eventually I would believe that I overcame it of myself. The battle I have daily with Sin forces me to constantly rely on Christ and keeps me humble to Him because my Flesh is weak but I am thankful that the Spirit He gave me the same one that Resurrected Him lives inside of me and it is more powerful than my Flesh and the World. If I stay in Christ then I can overcome my Sins.

    So again I dont think you have any True understanding of Repentance, nor is it easy as you say, if it were you would have already, but you havent...

    Absolutely not, not the real Church, and there is absolutely nothing worse than Hell brother...
     
  8. Red Sky at Morning

    Red Sky at Morning Star

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    I was thinking the other day on some of the things people have pointed out on the forum...

    Hell is perhaps the one that is most devisive but as this thread is not about whether the message appeals to you but whether the Gospel makes sense, the only way to do this is to take each element of the "plan" and examine it.

    I watched AI with Jude Law years ago, and I felt a pang of sadness for the boy who had been created to replace a lost son. He was going to live on and on, whether he liked it or not! What if, in our beings, there really was a part that was eternal, that would one day step from our body like an old car? Where next for our surprised souls?

    Suposing that eternity in the company of absolute holiness is possible, and given that eternal consciousness is indicated by the Bible for all, logically, where could those to whom God says finally "thy will be done" go?

    I purposefully chose a "well worn" example of the Gospel message in my OP, those who believe will certainly remember when that message clicked. Those who don't will recall hardening their hearts and convincing themselves in various ways why that can't make sense.

    A less wordy and rather witty clip got the point of the Gospel over to me a few years ago. I had believed for years but somehow the message here settled my understanding.

     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
  9. rainerann

    rainerann Star

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    Are these references suggesting that Jesus is teaching Taoist teachings; or, does it suggest that Taoist's are teaching Jesus' teaching.

    I think it is fine to see that what Jesus says doesn't conflict with spiritual beliefs that already existed, but there is a difference between saying this and saying that these teachings are the same as Christ's.

    I'm interested. I actually follow a ministry called Gospel for Asia that promotes the idea of national missionaries. A national missionary is beneficial to bringing the message of the Gospel because they know the culture and they know in what ways the message of Christ is similar to what they are familiar with.

    In the same way, we can see that many references in the New Testament were centered towards a Greek audience.

    So I don't think there is anything wrong with a discussion of something like this as long as there is a way to clarify that just because teachings are similar doesn't mean that practicing Taoism is the same as following Christ.
     
  10. JoChris

    JoChris Star

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    Don't most faiths have a teaching similar to "love your neighbour as you love yourself"?
    I think there would be many moral principles that most religions share too.
    Edit: just found a general blog entry on topic. http://www.thegoldenrule.net/quotes.htm
     
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  11. AspiringSoul

    AspiringSoul Star

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    For me as a Muslim many of the problems Muslims face are to do with our connection to the path of right action and the answer lies in the path of non-action which is basically Taoist philosophy.
    Islam does of course incorporate both paths within it but Muslims font typically grasp an understanding of how they work and apply to us.
    For example Islam and Christianity were at war for a long time and Muslims were repelled from southern France and then eventually driven out of Spain.
    Yet after colonialism Islam is in the West.
    Thats part of Taoist philosophy.

    In Ecclesiastes, Solomon AS expressed this precise wisdom after he'd amassed wealth and power and enjoyed luxuries.
    For example there is only so much pleasure a man can handle and then he realises he can't enjoy even simple things so was it worth indulging? Or food music women...and Solomon mentioned them all. He talked about wealth ie that we work all our life for it but don't even stop to enjoy the fruits of our labour only for someone to inherit it.

    The point really is about sitting still and allowing things to happen rather then forcing them.

    That's a basic but wise philosophy and it's ideas exist in various religious traditions there are elements of it in the Quran and hadith and certainly the NT is full of that wisdom.

    It's the underlying wisdom that's important to know for an average person.
    Funny thing is I used to do business in Shenzhen China in my younger days so I made a fair few friends for life.
    None of them had s clue what the hell the tao te Ching was.
    They used to ask me stuff like
    "Do you have lots of sex in England?"
    Lmao
    Truth is most Chinese people don't actually give a shit about philosophies and religion it was western orientalists who glamourised them.
    One guy told me that the philosophy is kind of just standard knowledge anyway and he avoided religion because he knew Taoist folk religion was bad...he told me specifically that their priests tell lies and rob people and went as far as telling me that they practice black magic so generally in educated Chinese society they only care about the materialistic life despite old philosophies.

    Do you know what this means? It means they'll learn the hard way and when they do they'll need religion .
     
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  12. Kung Fu

    Kung Fu Star

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    This is actually false. The Most High can forgive all sins except for one and that's polytheism and or associating partners to Him.

    Lo! Allah forgiveth not that a partner should be ascribed unto Him. He forgiveth (all) save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners to Allah, he hath indeed invented a tremendous sin.

    - al-Nisa 4:48
     
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  13. grateful servant

    grateful servant Star

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    KF mentioned in another thread that he only comments to Christian posts when they start spreading lies about Islam. So when I see his post above, I am curious to know how Islam got brought into this thread. Lo and behold, Aero - who is not a Muslim but a gnostic - makes a post about Christianity and never once mentions Islam, yet Daciple replied with a wall of text and false statements about Islam. What is going on? @Daciple: please read someone's post thoroughly before allowing your zealousness for your faith to overcome you so that you respond without comprehending. Yes, it seems that the Christians here just can't stop thinking about Islam.
     
  14. Red Sky at Morning

    Red Sky at Morning Star

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    You make an excellent point here. Paul states that he is speaking to the Greeks and as they represent the foundation of modern western thought, the wisdom in it is clear.

    @grateful servant - I didn't set up this thread to argue with Islam - my idea was to examine the claims of the Gospel itself, and to attempt to clearly present what I believe the true Gospel teaches. Of course, in the process, Christian belief will get compared and contrasted with other faiths. At least those who choose to reject the simplicity of the Gospel message will be aware of the ideas being dismissed, and not confuse it with corrupted versions of that message.

    For that reason I want to focus on what the Bible, taken as it is, teaches about Salvation, origins, sin, works, grace, mercy etc. You might not come away agreeing with that message, but it is better to have it clearly presented anyway.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
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  15. Aero

    Aero Star

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    Thanks for the response. I don't have time at the moment to respond in full to everything you said. But I got some quick thoughts I would like to drop.

    First of all this is a thread about salvation in Christian theology. So lets stick to that. I think of a church as any type of organized religion with a top down power structure.

    Ive checked several bible resources and I cant find any scripture to back up what you say about repentence. Obviously I'm not as versed in religious studies. So that's my question. Where does the bible describe repentence in such a way? Because from what I can tell its just a word that's thrown around. Its not a process.
     
  16. grateful servant

    grateful servant Star

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    Of course you didn't make it to start an argument with Islam. No Muslim ever mentioned Islam in here - Daciple did.:rolleyes:.
     
  17. Daciple

    Daciple Established

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    Looks like I mentioned all Religions here, or did you not notice this?

    I also believe Aero to have been a Muslim maybe I mixed him up with someone else, but that is why I used Islam as an example. The points I made are still valid regardless of what Religion you plug into sentence.
     
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  18. grateful servant

    grateful servant Star

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    right. Whatever sits well with you Daciple. I don't buy it though. g'day.
     
  19. Aero

    Aero Star

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    I've never been a Muslim. In fact I would find it impossible to follow that strict doctrine. And I specifically mean the no alcohol and drugs stuff. So maybe I could pass for a half ass Muslim, but that's about it. In contrast I could easily pass for a full fledged Christian, and that's kind of the whole point of my posts on this topic. I still have issues with the idea of needing to repent, as if it's not a natural human emotion.

    Repent is just another word for shame, or feeling bad. General thoughts and feelings of guilt. And that isn't setting the bar very high for a religious doctrine. It doesn't even set the bar high for a moral code. I don't think there is a single passage or story in the bible of someone having a difficult time repenting. Did they do hours of community service? Did they give up one of their thumbs? Find me something where someone wasn't readily accepted into the kingdom of Christianity.

    It doesn't exist, because this is easy mode religion for the masses. Christians in America are just a demographic. A niche market where people can sell you stuff. And western culture is doing the same thing to Islam. It's just at a much slower pace and veiled in false flag operations.
     
  20. Daciple

    Daciple Established

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    Then as I said you dont truly understand the Church, there is a structure but it is not of power or even rank. The Church is a community of believers who congregate to worship the Lord, to support one another, to love one another and to keep each other accountable to the Faith. I understand why you view the Church in the manner you do, because unfortunately as I stated before the Church has been corrupted by Materialism and many times it has been created in the manner you view it in. However that isnt what the Church should look like nor is it what the Church is truly about.

    In the Church I now attend, there is no power structure, we have people with titles and different positions and responsibilities but my Pastor has no more power than the average lay member. My Pastor doesnt control much of anything, almost everything is done by vote of the men or the Church. He doesnt even have anything to do with the finances. The "power" is spread out throughout the Church so no one really has any power with the vote of everyone else. Which is how the Church is to operate in accordance with the Word of God. The Pastor does what the Pastor is supposed to do, Preach the Gospel, pray, and be there for guidance and counsel, to feed and help the Sheep.

    So while I can understand why you view things as such, just because there are Churches that operate in that manner does it mean that what you see is how the Church is to operate. The Bible tells us how it is to operate and until you are a member of a Church of Born Again believers you really wont understand what the Church really is...

    So what does the word Repentance mean according to the Greek?

    metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose
    Original Word: μετανοέω
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: metanoeó
    Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
    Short Definition: I repent, change my mind
    Definition: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.

    3340 metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed afterbeing with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent(literally, "think differently afterwards").

    So the meaning of the Word in the Greek means to change your mind, and when we look at Scripture we can see what the difference is between Repentance unto Salvation and Repentance from Sin. You say you dont know any Scriptures that show these ideologies? Here are some to show what I mean.

    Repentance unto Salvation:

    Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

    Change your mind and believe in the Gospel, Repentance unto Salvation.

    Acts 20;21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Change your mind concerning God and believe or have faith towards Jesus. Repentance unto Salvation.

    Jesus gives a Parable that describes it as well:

    Matt 21:28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
    29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
    30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
    31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
    32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

    The publicans and harlots repented and believed, the Pharisees repented not, they didnt believe, and as such they would not go into the Kingdom of God. Repentance unto Salvation.

    Acts 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
    18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


    In this verse we see that Peter was telling those who were wondering if the Gentiles would be saved, that those Gentiles who believed on the Lord were also given the gift, which he is speaking of the Holy Spirit, the same as he and they were, so he concludes that God extended to the Gentiles repentance, changing their mind to believe in Christ unto Salvation.

    There are many more one can quote to show that there is a Repentance unto Salvation, but is it firmly established in the Word of God and not just thrown around, each time it is used in the Word it is for a purpose and not haphazardly.

    Repentance from Sin, a continuing Work:

    Matt 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance

    What are the fruits that show there is Repentance in your life?

    Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
    24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
    25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
    26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

    We see in these verses that the works of the Flesh are Sin, but the works of the Spirit are Fruits of Righteousness, these are the Fruits of Repentance, that doesnt happen all at once, it is a process, I didnt wake up one day and everyone of my Sins were no longer there, I have to battle daily against them and strive to produce the Fruits of the Spirit or Repentance.

    Here we can see that people ONCE practiced these things, but now that they are under the Spirit they strive no longer to be associated with them:

    1 Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
    11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    When you have the Holy Spirit in you, and you go into Sin you will feel Him grieved and you will have the desire to Repent:

    2 Cor 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
    10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
    11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

    Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

    Maybe you think Repentance is a word that is just thrown around with no real meaning behind it because you have never Repented, either to Faith in Christ or from that point Repentance from Sin. I can tell you that Repentance is real, at one time in my life I had Jesus of the Bible. I fully rejected the idea I was a Sinner on the way to Hell, I rejected that Jesus was God, I rejected the Church, I rejected any and everything to do with Biblical Christianity. I was heavily into Mysticism, or Gnosticism, or whatever label you want to apply to the ideologies of using drugs and seeking a Higher Power. I had no problem with Mystical Jesus, kind of the type of Jesus spoken about in that other Thread on here concerning Taoism. I had no problem with Gnostic Jesus, or Hippie Jesus, but oh when it came to Biblical Jesus, I hated Him, I frothed at the mouth to shout down anyone who tried to claim that Christ to me!!

    Then one day after my life went into the gutter and I was at the end of rope and was facing what I believed to be literally death, and death and Hell became real, I remembered what my mother had told me about the Jesus of the Bible and I cried out to Him in Repentance. I begged for forgiveness and to be saved from the Physical problems I was facing and moreso from Hell. I changed my mind about who Christ was, what Hell was, what Sin was and in an instant He forgave me and became Real. So Real in that even at times when I have been angry or hurt about things going on in my life, and even felt abandoned by God I could never ever deny Him. I have felt His presences in my Life I have seen His hand move in my Life, I know God is Real and I know Jesus is the Christ!!!

    I also know what grieving the Holy Spirit is, and it is REAL! I can feel it all the time when I wonder off the path God has for me, or when I Sin, something pulls in my Spirit in my Heart. I can tell you that when my mother passed I turned from God and went into the World and the whole time I could feel myself grieving the Holy Spirit. Things of the World like drugs and drinking that used to bring pleasure only brought grieving and anger in my Spirit, it was horrible, but I never used to experience it when I was Lost. And it wasnt until I Repented of the Sin I was living in that that feeling went away and was replaced by a fullness and joy.

    When I Sin now its not long before that joy and fullness goes away and I can feel the Spirit grieve inside of me, and quickly I drop to my knees Repent and get my relationship with God back in order. I am thankful for the Holy Spirit that it brings me back to Christ when I wonder off.

    So while you may think Repentance is just a word thrown around, to those who have been Born Again, Repentance unto Salvation is REAL, if they Truly have been Born Again, there would be a time where they changed their mind about Jesus and believed and put their Faith in Him. And if one is Born Again they can testify to the Repentance from Sin, and the grieving of the Holy Spirit, How it is daily battle.

    I hope one day Aero, Repentance becomes real to you, for if it does then you will be Born Again and know Christ your Lord and Savior...
     
    llleopard, rainerann, Aero and 3 others like this.

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