Does God Love Unconditionally?

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Your assuming that he will meet you where asked... I’m telling you that isn’t the case for everyone.

You have quite a few posters here who have genuinely sought god, genuinely wished to have that experience and have come up with nothing.

Telling said people - myself included - that we must not have asked genuinely enough isn’t fair. And it isn’t true.

I don’t see why human death would be a disqualifier. God is eternal. And I think, personally, that as a parent no matter how late my child came to the table I’d still welcome them.
I’m not judging you at all Jess, my great uncle was a staunch atheist his whole life and was more committed to unbelief than Bertrand Russell. In the last week of his life, he dropped his resistance to God and was saved. I think God has genuine compassion and will meet people where they are at. Of course, I can only truly say this from my experience. I would not presume to know or understand yours.

Mark 9:24 King James Version (KJV)

24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
 





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I would not create a world with sinful actions. Thought about that a lot. I won't blame my creation for the flaws I've built in, I'd just not build in flaws I'd punish them for.

I know you guys don't believe God created sin, but that's the only conclusion I can draw from most religious books.

He's allmighty, a human parent might love their child and not approve of them as they did not decide everything about that child as an allmighty creator does. An allmighty creator is 100% responsible for his creation, and therefore should not create something he dissaproves of.
1. When God created the Heavens and the Earth he could’ve created a place with no free will, but in that scenario, there’s nothing special about God’s creation, and without a choice in the matter, it’s not tested & true. We would’ve been NPCs if we didn’t have a choice. Genuine love through choosing to have a relationship with Jesus is a lot different than having no say in the matter. God didn’t want sin, and that’s why he told Adam & Eve to leave the tree alone. He created a world with free will so there would be the opportunity for His children to decide whether or not they want the love He’s offering, instead of being forced. Sin is possible bc of free will, but so is genuine love. To create a covering for sin bc of free will, Jesus died for our sins in our place so that those who, w/their own free will, choose to accept the loving gift of salvation can still reside with Christ. People that choose to reject the redemptive gift of salvation are exerting their free will, even if God wishes they’d accept His gift. That’s why there’s free will- not bc God was trying to play a cruel game, but bc he was enabling the opportunity for pure love- by choice since pure love can’t be done by force. We don’t want a warped, meaningless love bc someone was ‘forced’ to ‘love’ us, why in the world would God? ‘Love’ that isn’t optional isn’t love at all. He loves everyone, but it’s their free will to choose him back.

2. The unconditional love thing: any argument I’ve ever heard compares our comprehension of human, earthly love to God’s supernatural, untarnished, all powerful version of love. We simply can’t comprehend it, bc we’re on two totally different levels. Assuming that we are capable of God’s perfect, unwavering love, means that we’d have to be equal to God! We clearly aren’t, and that’s why there’s grace.

3. When bad things happen, I’m always baffled that ppl blame God. A part of free will means that your choices have consequences. Unconditional love means loving in spite of bad choices. His love is unconditional, but as sinners, of course our love isn’t going to be Christ’s version of unconditional love. However, He tells us how we should love each other- He gave us a roadmap. Then people pick and choose parts of His roadmap and are baffled when there are cracks.

4. Victims: as for children victims, I believe they go to heaven. I think there’s a time in every person’s young life when they become aware of good & evil & that they have a choice between the two. When someone is presented with the gospel and they choose to ignore it, call it fake, or choose Satan, they’re obviously making a choice. Many abused mind control victims become abusers themselves. When that switch is made, they’re rejecting Christ. Most of the occult know the Bible better than most Christians. That’s why you should also be cognizant of their verbiage. In the occult they believe satan/Lucifer is God, and Christ is the imposter (to which I have to say “who had the power to throw the other out of heaven tho? Bc Lucifer was chunked out like a bolt of lightning, and God is the one that did that.”). You’ll see that mess from politicians to Santeria junk. They’ll say ‘God’ knowing most ppl will interpret that as Jesus. Ask them if they mean the God of Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob, or simply ask them to say ‘Jesus’ to specify. Added to this issue, however, is the state of many churches. I believe they’re currently ill-equipped to handle all of the depravity that seems to be on the brink of exposure (including leaders in some churches that will be exposed), and the amount of victims that will need help.

5. ‘Selling the soul’: our souls are already bought and paid for by Jesus dying on the cross, Satan does not hold dominion over Christ, therefore, when someone repents, and asks for salvation- acknowledging the one true savior, that contract is rendered void. Check out John Ramirez’s testimony if you want to hear how he turned to Christ after being a high priest in the occult. As for the mark of the beast- the Bible is very clear about accepting that mark during the anti-christ’s reign. The anti-christ & the final days can’t occur according to the Bible until the gospel has been heard in every nation. I see it as those taking the mark are wholeheartedly rejecting God’s offer of salvation, choosing to nullify Jesus’ purchase of their soul and knowingly break that covenant.

6. ‘Harmless’ occult stuff: no such thing. Even something as simple as horoscopes and tarot cards that seem like fun entertainment is really you giving evil spirits an avenue into your life. Ppl think that sounds stupid, right? Satan loves that ppl are so naive. Ppl forget that when he was an angel, he was called the ‘light bearer’ and was considered one of the most beautiful angels (incidentally, he was also in charge of music- is it any wonder then that music is such a popular tool of the occult?). Many of the things that appear fun, harmless, attractive, or popular always start out that way- they’re modeled after the beautiful lure that Lucifer uses to draw ppl in. All of it ends in destruction, despair, emptiness, and death...just like Satan. Just look at Hollywood- it’s full of so many ‘miserable inside but pretty on the outside’ people that are all roaming around looking for something to fill the void that only Christ can. Many of them realize that, but think satan holds the power (nope), or they aren’t brave enough to lose their lifestyle to escape. Mediums, psychics, false prophets are all repeatedly condemned in the Bible. Satan is very powerful, of course he can use your desire to know your future or ‘speak’ to a dead loved one to real you in- plus, Satan is a show off. Demons know everything about you, so why is it so ‘amazing’ when someone in the occult relays a story to you about your dead husband? There are demons and angels all around. God doesn’t have to show off for Satan, He’s above him. I believe God uses people prophetically (for example, look up Kim Clement- there are numerous prophetic services from years ago where he literally describes Trump, the presidency, the exposure coming, even that ppl would be screaming to impeach whoever this man was that was chosen by God), for deliverance, and miracles...but it’s only through a deep relationship with Christ and discernment are you able to recognize false prophets. It’s like identical twins. If someone doesn’t know them well, it’s hard to tell them apart. However, someone that spends a lot of time with one of them would easily know if the other twin was impersonating the other. Satan is the ultimate copycat.

7. Catholicism: the Bible says we repent directly to Christ and He’s the one that forgives- there isn’t a middleman, not to mention a mortal human can’t absolve you of sin. If they could, we wouldn’t need the cross. God is the only one that saves, protects, and redeems. Praying to ‘mother mary’ and various saints is worshipping false idols. Even calling the priest ‘father ____’ is addressed in the book of Matthew very clearly. Only God is supposed to be called ‘Father’ in spiritual reverence. Bc of so many deviations that are blatantly addressed in the Bible, Catholicism is very easily mixed with voodoo/Santeria.
 





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I’m not judging you at all Jess, my great uncle was a staunch atheist his whole life and was more committed to unbelief than Bertrand Russell. In the last week of his life, he dropped his resistance to God and was saved. I think God has genuine compassion and will meet people where they are at. Of course, I can only truly say this from my experience. I would not presume to know or understand yours.

Mark 9:24 King James Version (KJV)

24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
I am not an atheist. For the millionth time. I’ve just seen no evidence that your particular version on god is the correct one, I am wholly and entirely convinced however that there is a god of some sort. I am wholly and entirely convinced that Jesus was sent here to show us how to live correctly. The rest of it shouldn’t matter - yet according to your interpretation of your book I’ll burn in Hell for it.

Which is fine. Whatever. But all I’m saying is if your book is correct that should become blatantly obvious at death and I’m not sure why mortal death should be used as a limitation to the boundary given to get into heaven, when god himself is eternal.
 





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1. When God created the Heavens and the Earth he could’ve created a place with no free will, but in that scenario, there’s nothing special about God’s creation, and without a choice in the matter, it’s not tested & true. We would’ve been NPCs if we didn’t have a choice. Genuine love through choosing to have a relationship with Jesus is a lot different than having no say in the matter. God didn’t want sin, and that’s why he told Adam & Eve to leave the tree alone. He created a world with free will so there would be the opportunity for His children to decide whether or not they want the love He’s offering, instead of being forced. Sin is possible bc of free will, but so is genuine love. To create a covering for sin bc of free will, Jesus died for our sins in our place so that those who, w/their own free will, choose to accept the loving gift of salvation can still reside with Christ. People that choose to reject the redemptive gift of salvation are exerting their free will, even if God wishes they’d accept His gift. That’s why there’s free will- not bc God was trying to play a cruel game, but bc he was enabling the opportunity for pure love- by choice since pure love can’t be done by force. We don’t want a warped, meaningless love bc someone was ‘forced’ to ‘love’ us, why in the world would God? ‘Love’ that isn’t optional isn’t love at all. He loves everyone, but it’s their free will to choose him back.

2. The unconditional love thing: any argument I’ve ever heard compares our comprehension of human, earthly love to God’s supernatural, untarnished, all powerful version of love. We simply can’t comprehend it, bc we’re on two totally different levels. Assuming that we are capable of God’s perfect, unwavering love, means that we’d have to be equal to God! We clearly aren’t, and that’s why there’s grace.

3. When bad things happen, I’m always baffled that ppl blame God. A part of free will means that your choices have consequences. Unconditional love means loving in spite of bad choices. His love is unconditional, but as sinners, of course our love isn’t going to be Christ’s version of unconditional love. However, He tells us how we should love each other- He gave us a roadmap. Then people pick and choose parts of His roadmap and are baffled when there are cracks.

4. Victims: as for children victims, I believe they go to heaven. I think there’s a time in every person’s young life when they become aware of good & evil & that they have a choice between the two. When someone is presented with the gospel and they choose to ignore it, call it fake, or choose Satan, they’re obviously making a choice. Many abused mind control victims become abusers themselves. When that switch is made, they’re rejecting Christ. Most of the occult know the Bible better than most Christians. That’s why you should also be cognizant of their verbiage. In the occult they believe satan/Lucifer is God, and Christ is the imposter (to which I have to say “who had the power to throw the other out of heaven tho? Bc Lucifer was chunked out like a bolt of lightning, and God is the one that did that.”). You’ll see that mess from politicians to Santeria junk. They’ll say ‘God’ knowing most ppl will interpret that as Jesus. Ask them if they mean the God of Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob, or simply ask them to say ‘Jesus’ to specify. Added to this issue, however, is the state of many churches. I believe they’re currently ill-equipped to handle all of the depravity that seems to be on the brink of exposure (including leaders in some churches that will be exposed), and the amount of victims that will need help.

5. ‘Selling the soul’: our souls are already bought and paid for by Jesus dying on the cross, Satan does not hold dominion over Christ, therefore, when someone repents, and asks for salvation- acknowledging the one true savior, that contract is rendered void. Check out John Ramirez’s testimony if you want to hear how he turned to Christ after being a high priest in the occult. As for the mark of the beast- the Bible is very clear about accepting that mark during the anti-christ’s reign. The anti-christ & the final days can’t occur according to the Bible until the gospel has been heard in every nation. I see it as those taking the mark are wholeheartedly rejecting God’s offer of salvation, choosing to nullify Jesus’ purchase of their soul and knowingly break that covenant.

6. ‘Harmless’ occult stuff: no such thing. Even something as simple as horoscopes and tarot cards that seem like fun entertainment is really you giving evil spirits an avenue into your life. Ppl think that sounds stupid, right? Satan loves that ppl are so naive. Ppl forget that when he was an angel, he was called the ‘light bearer’ and was considered one of the most beautiful angels (incidentally, he was also in charge of music- is it any wonder then that music is such a popular tool of the occult?). Many of the things that appear fun, harmless, attractive, or popular always start out that way- they’re modeled after the beautiful lure that Lucifer uses to draw ppl in. All of it ends in destruction, despair, emptiness, and death...just like Satan. Just look at Hollywood- it’s full of so many ‘miserable inside but pretty on the outside’ people that are all roaming around looking for something to fill the void that only Christ can. Many of them realize that, but think satan holds the power (nope), or they aren’t brave enough to lose their lifestyle to escape. Mediums, psychics, false prophets are all repeatedly condemned in the Bible. Satan is very powerful, of course he can use your desire to know your future or ‘speak’ to a dead loved one to real you in- plus, Satan is a show off. Demons know everything about you, so why is it so ‘amazing’ when someone in the occult relays a story to you about your dead husband? There are demons and angels all around. God doesn’t have to show off for Satan, He’s above him. I believe God uses people prophetically (for example, look up Kim Clement- there are numerous prophetic services from years ago where he literally describes Trump, the presidency, the exposure coming, even that ppl would be screaming to impeach whoever this man was that was chosen by God), for deliverance, and miracles...but it’s only through a deep relationship with Christ and discernment are you able to recognize false prophets. It’s like identical twins. If someone doesn’t know them well, it’s hard to tell them apart. However, someone that spends a lot of time with one of them would easily know if the other twin was impersonating the other. Satan is the ultimate copycat.

7. Catholicism: the Bible says we repent directly to Christ and He’s the one that forgives- there isn’t a middleman, not to mention a mortal human can’t absolve you of sin. If they could, we wouldn’t need the cross. God is the only one that saves, protects, and redeems. Praying to ‘mother mary’ and various saints is worshipping false idols. Even calling the priest ‘father ____’ is addressed in the book of Matthew very clearly. Only God is supposed to be called ‘Father’ in spiritual reverence. Bc of so many deviations that are blatantly addressed in the Bible, Catholicism is very easily mixed with voodoo/Santeria.
I can agree with most of this except for Kim Clements' proohecy about Trump being God's man. He's not. He's not Nebuchadnezzar or Cyrus or anything those NAR prophets said. He's just a crooked man and dishonest politician. It bothers me that some Christians mix politics with religion and want to make a man other than Jesus (who is God and man) out to be a savior of sorts. No politicsl party can save. Sorry to rant, just telling it as I see it lately.
 





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I am not an atheist. For the millionth time. I’ve just seen no evidence that your particular version on god is the correct one, I am wholly and entirely convinced however that there is a god of some sort. I am wholly and entirely convinced that Jesus was sent here to show us how to live correctly. The rest of it shouldn’t matter - yet according to your interpretation of your book I’ll burn in Hell for it.

Which is fine. Whatever. But all I’m saying is if your book is correct that should become blatantly obvious at death and I’m not sure why mortal death should be used as a limitation to the boundary given to get into heaven, when god himself is eternal.
I think Dr Laine-Craig is very wise in his honest observations here on faith and doubt. I’m not here to judge you at all JJ as my judgement doesn’t count for a thing!!

 





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No?

For God so loved the world... ?​


God did not send His Son into the world that He might judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.​

JOHN 3:17

That is the Good News... just saying.

-Fini- I can find no place in the whole Bible that God loves this world, In fact, He tells us not to love this world. If He loved it, He would not want to destroy it and make it anew. (1 John 2: 15-17)
 





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Never said you were here to judge me red :)

Can’t proclaim something to be true that I don’t believe to be true. God knows your heart right? That would just be a lie. It’s more than uncertainty, it’s serious doubt. Which is all besides the fact here...

I wasn’t trying to discuss my own faith or lack thereof. I was trying to discuss god in the context of u conditional love and boundaries.
 





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I am not an atheist. For the millionth time. I’ve just seen no evidence that your particular version on god is the correct one, I am wholly and entirely convinced however that there is a god of some sort. I am wholly and entirely convinced that Jesus was sent here to show us how to live correctly. The rest of it shouldn’t matter - yet according to your interpretation of your book I’ll burn in Hell for it.

Which is fine. Whatever. But all I’m saying is if your book is correct that should become blatantly obvious at death and I’m not sure why mortal death should be used as a limitation to the boundary given to get into heaven, when god himself is eternal.
I see where you’re coming from, but It’s bc the Bible says we are saved by grace *through faith*. That’s the big kicker. It’s like being a kid and being told about wind. You can’t see wind, but you can see the effect that wind has around you. You can’t physically grab Christ, but when you seek a relationship you can feel & see the impact of Christ. Everyone is always, always ‘searching to fill something that’s missing.’ We’re made in God’s image, if He isn’t a part of someone’s life, of course the soul that He created within that person is going to feel like something is missing. God gives lots of chances to receive salvation that we didn’t earn. By saying ‘eh, I don’t believe it, but if I end up in hell, then He loves me so He’ll do me a solid.’ You’re ignoring that we don’t deserve salvation in the first place, it’s only bc of God’s Grace, and even then, God’s stipulation is faith. When you reject God’s offer of salvation through faith, He still loves you, but it’s your free will to do so. He’ll still try, but even after all of the things He’s done, all of the grace and redemption, ppl still do blind demands of ‘do this or you’re fake.’ God’s a loving God, but there’s a difference between actively seeking Christ (reading the Bible, reading books by scholars that set out to prove God wasn’t real only to find the opposite, seeking out pastors for answers) and saying ‘God, help my faith grow, let me know you’re real’, versus ‘I kind of get it, but I still think you owe me more.’ The idea that you have a wealth of resources and the chance to genuinely try to investigate it, but instead the take is ‘no thanks. But if i learn I’m wrong in hell, I definitely deserve an ‘oops’ and an escort to Heaven’? The book of Matthew 10:33 is your direct answer. Those who deny Jesus on earth , Jesus will deny to God in Heaven. You don’t have to believe, free will and all. The reason I’m adamant about my faith and belief in Christ is bc when you accept Him as your savior and seek Him, He becomes so real and tangible in life that ‘I have faith the God is’ becomes ‘He’s so real that there’s no room for doubt.’
 





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I can agree with most of this except for Kim Clements' proohecy about Trump being God's man. He's not. He's not Nebuchadnezzar or Cyrus or anything those NAR prophets said. He's just a crooked man and dishonest politician. It bothers me that some Christians mix politics with religion and want to make a man other than Jesus (who is God and man) out to be a savior of sorts. No politicsl party can save. Sorry to rant, just telling it as I see it lately.
I actually always thought Trump was an arrogant tool. I was horrified when he was running, and I’m regularly mortified by stuff he says, so I get where you’re coming from. I don’t think he’s a mighty, virtuous man...but I do think that God is using him, and Kim’s stuff def made me do a double take. God took Saul and changed him into Paul, so the sky is the limit. I don’t put my trust in Trump, let alone chant his name- but I do put my trust in God. If He’s using Trump, then I’m going to pray for him. It’s out of the grasp of my understanding, but maybe one day it won’t be. Until then, I’m going to pray for God’s will to be done
 





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I actually always thought Trump was an arrogant tool. I was horrified when he was running, and I’m regularly mortified by stuff he says, so I get where you’re coming from. I don’t think he’s a mighty, virtuous man...but I do think that God is using him, and Kim’s stuff def made me do a double take. God took Saul and changed him into Paul, so the sky is the limit. I don’t put my trust in Trump, let alone chant his name- but I do put my trust in God. If He’s using Trump, then I’m going to pray for him. It’s out of the grasp of my understanding, but maybe one day it won’t be. Until then, I’m going to pray for God’s will to be done
As regards Cyrus, I’m not going to automatically dismiss this as we have very little information as to what he believed or whether he was nice to people seeking refugee status in his country. I think (and others have thought this before me) that if Trump were to parallel any OT character, Jehu might also have some uncanny resonances. I guess time will tell...

 





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As regards Cyrus, I’m not going to automatically dismiss this as we have very little information as to what he believed or whether he was nice to people seeking refugee status in his country. I think (and others have thought this before me) that if Trump were to parallel any OT character, Jehu might also have some uncanny resonances. I guess time will tell...

You read my mind, Red. Ha ha. Was thinking of Jonathan Cahn's The Paradigm with the Trump/Jehu comparison. He is truly a wild donkey of a man more than anything. I know "wild donkey" was used to describe Ishmael, but it applies so much more so to Trump, imo. :)

I don't agree with Cahn necessarily, yet find him entertaining.
 





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You read my mind, Red. Ha ha. Was thinking of Jonathan Cahn's The Paradigm with the Trump/Jehu comparison. He is truly a wild donkey of a man more than anything. I know "wild donkey" was used to describe Ishmael, but it applies so much more so to Trump, imo. :)

I don't agree with Cahn necessarily, yet find him entertaining.
I feel the same way about Cahn - that’s why I posted up a clip that was a study of Jehu which doesn’t spell out what connections to make about the parallels between the two leaders.

P.s. this may sound negative, but I have had ambivalent feelings towards Trump since 2016 and have kept quiet on the issue for that reason...

 





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I recently heard John 3-16 called one of the most misunderstood verses in Bible. Pastor explaining it was having a lot of fun. First he asked his audience (which was quite big) who knows what John 3-16 says and all of them knew it, then he asked what John 3-15 says and only 1-2 people knew. That's too bad because John 3-16 is about John 3-15. Emphasis on SO in verse 16. So as in same way described in verse 15, but not Sooooo as people like it to read...Pastors name is David Pawson if anyone is interested...
Morning, Vytas :D

Always good to see you around.

Regarding John 3:15-- it is reiterated in John 3:16... I quoted the Berean Literal version (included v. 14 in the spoiler below, for reference).

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, thus it behooves the Son of Man to be lifted up,
JOHN 3:15
... so that everyone believing in Him may have eternal life.​
JOHN 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish, but should have eternal life.​

LINK- DAVID PAWSON'S OVERVIEW OF JOHN 3:16


And yeah, I'm interested. I'll delve into it more, later. :)
 





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Morning, Vytas :D

Always good to see you around.

Regarding John 3:15-- it is reiterated in John 3:16... I quoted the Berean Literal version (included v. 14 in the spoiler below, for reference).

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, thus it behooves the Son of Man to be lifted up,

JOHN 3:15

... so that everyone believing in Him may have eternal life.​


JOHN 3:16

For God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish, but should have eternal life.​

LINK- DAVID PAWSON'S OVERVIEW OF JOHN 3:16


And yeah, I'm interested. I'll delve into it more, later. :)
David Pawson is a likeable, staunch Arminian! I 100% agree with 90% of his theology ;-)
 





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Never said you were here to judge me red :)

Can’t proclaim something to be true that I don’t believe to be true. God knows your heart right? That would just be a lie. It’s more than uncertainty, it’s serious doubt. Which is all besides the fact here...

I wasn’t trying to discuss my own faith or lack thereof. I was trying to discuss god in the context of u conditional love and boundaries.
Tennyson's In Memorium AHH 96 speaks to this with "There is more faith in honest doubt than in half the creeds". I've known Jesus since I was 7, but have screwed up a lot and still doubt at times, most recently with Hebrew Roots and NAR (it attracts normal and abnormal). Keep seeking, asking, knocking. I believe the search will be rewarded.
 





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Morning, Vytas :D

Always good to see you around.

Regarding John 3:15-- it is reiterated in John 3:16... I quoted the Berean Literal version (included v. 14 in the spoiler below, for reference).

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, thus it behooves the Son of Man to be lifted up,

JOHN 3:15

... so that everyone believing in Him may have eternal life.​


JOHN 3:16

For God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish, but should have eternal life.​

LINK- DAVID PAWSON'S OVERVIEW OF JOHN 3:16


And yeah, I'm interested. I'll delve into it more, later. :)
Aww somebody is in good mood, you doesn't see that very often these days :) (was thinking about writing you a pm ).
Off course you interested, it's you after all. That pastor is really good source, I remember one day I was so disappointed at my own intelligence that I simply googled ,how to study Bible, and found him, he has some meat for grown ups, that for sure. Also it's easy to listen to him, no matter the topic, not everybody have that gift .
 





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Aww somebody is in good mood, you doesn't see that very often these days :) (was thinking about writing you a pm ).
Off course you interested, it's you after all. That pastor is really good source, I remember one day I was so disappointed at my own intelligence that I simply googled ,how to study Bible, and found him, he has some meat for grown ups, that for sure. Also it's easy to listen to him, no matter the topic, not everybody have that gift .
One of the things I heard from David that I really agreed with:-

 





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I feel the same way about Cahn - that’s why I posted up a clip that was a study of Jehu which doesn’t spell out what connections to make about the parallels between the two leaders.

P.s. this may sound negative, but I have had ambivalent feelings towards Trump since 2016 and have kept quiet on the issue for that reason...

I have never thought of Trump as a religious leader. I shuddered when I heard him use the Lords name in vain on one of his rallies. But, if he is a Christian, God will chastise him. Obama was an antichrist....not the Antichrist, but an antichrist nevertheless.. Trump never denies Christ. What I do is what the Spirit says, pray for those in positions of authority that we would lead a peaceful life. I also pray that he would seek the wisdom of the Lord in his decisions. I did that with Obama, but my spirit felt resistance about Obama. But I never put my faith in anyone but Christ. The House and Senate and most of the local government are corrupt. Why pick on one man when the rest are just as bad or worse.