Clashes Continue For Second Night At Al-aqsa

Thunderian

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Ali Abunimah tells Al Jazeera English that Israel's aggressive encroachment on the city's holy sites is behind the escalation in violence.
So it's not the worshipers who ran out of the mosque firing machine guns? Or the rioters who are chanting "death to the Jews" and attacking police with rocks and molotov cockails? Or the imams who are calling on Muslims to attack and kill? Or the Palestinians leaders who are praising all of it?

That must be some pretty aggressive encroachment on Israel's part. What encroachment are they speaking of, exactly?
 

DesertRose

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What encroachment are they speaking of, exactly?
New security measures. Watch the video!!
Is Israel changing the status quo around Al Aqsa?
World leaders are demanding Israel honour the status quo that governs the al-Aqsa Mosque compound in East Jerusalem.
 

Thunderian

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Is Israel changing the status quo around Al Aqsa?
The status quo changed when Muslim worshipers started killing people at the mosque. Installing metal detectors is a direct result of this terrorist action. There have been no other changes, and Muslims are free to worship at al-Aqsa as they always have been, just not with machine guns.

There are mosques in other places that have metal detectors. Why is this cause for such a violent reaction at al-Aqsa? Where are the riots at Mecca over security measures there? Or in the UAE, where ALL mosques have metal detectors?
 

DesertRose

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https://imeu.org/article/misperceptions-re-tensions-over-the-noble-sanctuary

Misperceptions Regarding Tensions Over the Noble Sanctuary


Misperception: Israelis who are pushing for greater access to the Noble Sanctuary mosque complex (known as the Temple Mount to Jews) in occupied East Jerusalem just want religious freedom for Jews.

The Facts:
  • Although they often couch their goals in terms of civil rights and religious freedom, the right-wing Israeli individuals and groups that are pushing for more access and Jewish prayer in the Noble Sanctuary want to remove the Muslim holy sites that it houses and replace them with a Jewish temple. On its website, one of the movement’s most prominent organizations, the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement, declares as its objective:Liberating the Temple Mount from Arab (Islamic) occupation. The Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa mosque were placed on this Jewish or biblical holy site as a specific sign of Islamic conquest and domination. The Temple Mount can never be consecrated to the Name of G-d without removing these pagan shrines. It has been suggested that they be removed, transferred to, and rebuilt at Mecca.
  • For these messianic Jewish extremists, efforts to gain more access and to be able to pray in the Noble Sanctuary form part of a larger plan to remove and/or destroy the mosques it contains and replace them with a Jewish temple. As Moshe Feiglin, then-deputy speaker of the Israeli parliament from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud party, explained in March 2014: "I'm not asking for equality at the Temple Mount; there is no equality - it's ours and ours alone."
  • Many Palestinians fear that Israel will eventually attempt to take over all or part of the Noble Sanctuary for exclusive Jewish use, as occurred with the Ibrahimi Mosque in Hebron in the occupied West Bank. In that case, the Israeli government divided the mosque and gave half of it to Jewish settlers following the massacre of 29 Palestinian worshippers by an Israeli-American settler in 1994.
Misperception: Israeli authorities reject attempts to change the status quo in the Noble Sanctuary and oppose actions by Jewish extremists that provoke tensions over it.
The Facts:

  • While Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said repeatedly that he has no intention of changing the status quo in the Noble Sanctuary, senior officials in his current and previous governments have openly called for the construction of a Jewish temple in the Noble Sanctuary, including Agriculture Minister Uri Ariel of the extreme right wing Jewish Home party and Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely of Netanyahu’s Likud party. In July 2013, then-Housing and Construction Minister Ariel declared to an “archeological conference” in the occupied West Bank:We’ve built many little, little temples… but we need to build a real Temple on the Temple Mount.
  • In May 2014, hardline Knesset member Miri Regev from Netanyahu’s Likud party introduced a bill calling for the status quo to be changed to allow Jews to pray in the Noble Sanctuary.
  • The Israeli Knesset (parliament) has also held hearings on changing the status quo in the Noble Sanctuary to allow Jews to pray there, including a February 2014 debate that was initiated by the ultra-right wing Moshe Feiglin, then a member of Netanyahu’s Likud party and deputy Knesset speaker.
  • The Israeli government provides funding to organizations like the Temple Institute, which are actively working towards building a temple in the Noble Sanctuary. According to a March 2013 report by Israeli NGOs Ir Amim and Keshev:The State of Israel directly funds various Temple movement activities. In the years 2008-2011, the Ministry of Culture, Science and Sports and the Ministry of Education supported the Temple Institute and the Midrasha at an average rate of NIS 412,000 [approximately $105,000 USD] per year. In 2012, the Midrasha, the educational arm of the Temple Institute, received NIS 189,000 [approximately $48,000 USD] from the Ministry of Education.On December 30, 2010 a highly attended conference took place at Binyanei Ha’uma (The Jerusalem Conference Center). The event, promoted as ‘Every Jew Has a Part in the Sacred’ (the logo on the invitation proclaimed ‘Something good is happening in Jerusalem!’), drew thousands of attendees, mostly Haredim. The program included a discussion of ritual sacrifice and an exhibit presenting a model of the Temple. It also showcased a virtual presentation illustrating the construction of the Third Temple on the ruins of the Dome of the Rock. The conference was held under the auspices of the Jerusalem Municipality’s Department of Religious Culture.
Misperception: Messianic Temple Mount extremists are a tiny minority in Israel and are on the fringes of society.
The Facts:

  • Once considered to be on the margins of the Israeli political right, the Temple Mount movement has grown rapidly over the past decade and a half and has become mainstream.
  • Growing numbers of Israeli rabbis are approving, and even encouraging, Jews to visit the Noble Sanctuary/Temple Mount, something that until recently was opposed by the vast majority of Jewish religious authorities based on theological grounds.
  • Messianic Temple Mount extremists who advocate the building of a Jewish temple in the Noble Sanctuary mosque complex now sit in powerful positions in government, including ministerial posts.
  • According to statistics released by the Israeli police in January 2015, the number of visits by Jews to the Noble Sanctuary has increased 92% since 2009. As the right wing Jerusalem Post noted in reporting the story: “The trend is driven by several activist groups who encourage Jewish Israelis and tourists to visit the Temple Mount, saying they wish to re-assert the Jewish connection to the site.”
Misperception: Palestinians enjoy religious freedom and freedom of worship in the Noble Sanctuary and other Muslim and Christian holy sites in occupied East Jerusalem.
The Facts:

  • Israel routinely violates the religious rights and freedoms of Palestinians in East Jerusalem and the rest of the occupied territories.
  • Israeli authorities frequently prevent access to the Noble Sanctuary to Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem by implementing age and gender restrictions that prohibit men under a certain age, such as 50-years-old, from entering to worship.
  • The Israeli government denies millions of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza access to East Jerusalem and its holy sites. Millions of other Palestinians living in Jordan, Lebanon and elsewhere in the diaspora are similarly denied the right to worship freely at their holy sites in Jerusalem.
 

Thunderian

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https://imeu.org/article/misperceptions-re-tensions-over-the-noble-sanctuary

Misperceptions Regarding Tensions Over the Noble Sanctuary

Misperception: Israelis who are pushing for greater access to the Noble Sanctuary mosque complex (known as the Temple Mount to Jews) in occupied East Jerusalem just want religious freedom for Jews.
Can we establish that the Temple Mount predates Islam as a holy site for Jews by a thousand years? Right now, they aren't even allowed to pray there.

The Facts:
  • Although they often couch their goals in terms of civil rights and religious freedom, the right-wing Israeli individuals and groups that are pushing for more access and Jewish prayer in the Noble Sanctuary want to remove the Muslim holy sites that it houses and replace them with a Jewish temple. On its website, one of the movement’s most prominent organizations, the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement, declares as its objective:Liberating the Temple Mount from Arab (Islamic) occupation. The Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa mosque were placed on this Jewish or biblical holy site as a specific sign of Islamic conquest and domination. The Temple Mount can never be consecrated to the Name of G-d without removing these pagan shrines. It has been suggested that they be removed, transferred to, and rebuilt at Mecca.
  • For these messianic Jewish extremists, efforts to gain more access and to be able to pray in the Noble Sanctuary form part of a larger plan to remove and/or destroy the mosques it contains and replace them with a Jewish temple. As Moshe Feiglin, then-deputy speaker of the Israeli parliament from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud party, explained in March 2014: "I'm not asking for equality at the Temple Mount; there is no equality - it's ours and ours alone."
  • Many Palestinians fear that Israel will eventually attempt to take over all or part of the Noble Sanctuary for exclusive Jewish use, as occurred with the Ibrahimi Mosque in Hebron in the occupied West Bank. In that case, the Israeli government divided the mosque and gave half of it to Jewish settlers following the massacre of 29 Palestinian worshippers by an Israeli-American settler in 1994.
Of course Jews will want more access to their holiest site. As I have already said, right now they aren't even allowed to pray there. When groups of religious Jews visit, they are followed around by the authorities, and subject to attack by Muslims.

In 1986, a group of Jews finally won permission from the Supreme Muslim Council to pray on the Temple Mount. One small group made it onto the Mount and were immediately attacked by a mob with stones and bottles.

Misperception: Israeli authorities reject attempts to change the status quo in the Noble Sanctuary and oppose actions by Jewish extremists that provoke tensions over it.
The Facts:

  • While Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said repeatedly that he has no intention of changing the status quo in the Noble Sanctuary, senior officials in his current and previous governments have openly called for the construction of a Jewish temple in the Noble Sanctuary, including Agriculture Minister Uri Ariel of the extreme right wing Jewish Home party and Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely of Netanyahu’s Likud party. In July 2013, then-Housing and Construction Minister Ariel declared to an “archeological conference” in the occupied West Bank:We’ve built many little, little temples… but we need to build a real Temple on the Temple Mount.
  • In May 2014, hardline Knesset member Miri Regev from Netanyahu’s Likud party introduced a bill calling for the status quo to be changed to allow Jews to pray in the Noble Sanctuary.
  • The Israeli Knesset (parliament) has also held hearings on changing the status quo in the Noble Sanctuary to allow Jews to pray there, including a February 2014 debate that was initiated by the ultra-right wing Moshe Feiglin, then a member of Netanyahu’s Likud party and deputy Knesset speaker.
The so-called "status quo" is an agreement that was reached in 1757 governing holy places in Jerusalem. It says that "No regulation nor law shall be made prohibiting or interfering with the free exercise of religion".

When Jordan took control of the Temple Mount in 1948 they closed all sites in the Old City of Jerusalem to Jews, ignoring the provisions of the status quo that had been in effect for almost 200 years. When Israeli won the Old City, including the Temple Mount, in 1967, they opened the Temple Mount up to Jews again, with the restriction on prayer in place.

Since then, the status quo has remained unchanged, except for four exceptions, none of which have benefited the Jews.

(1) Jewish visits are often prevented or considerably restricted.
(2) Jews and other non-Islamic visitors can only visit from Sunday to Thursday, for four hours each day.
(3) Visits inside the mosques are not allowed.
(4) Jews with religious appearance must visit in groups monitored by Waqf guards and policemen

The Israeli government provides funding to organizations like the
Temple Institute, which are actively working towards building a temple in the Noble Sanctuary. According to a March 2013 report by Israeli NGOs Ir Amim and Keshev:The State of Israel directly funds various Temple movement activities. In the years 2008-2011, the Ministry of Culture, Science and Sports and the Ministry of Education supported the Temple Institute and the Midrasha at an average rate of NIS 412,000 [approximately $105,000 USD] per year. In 2012, the Midrasha, the educational arm of the Temple Institute, received NIS 189,000 [approximately $48,000 USD] from the Ministry of Education.On December 30, 2010 a highly attended conference took place at Binyanei Ha’uma (The Jerusalem Conference Center). The event, promoted as ‘Every Jew Has a Part in the Sacred’ (the logo on the invitation proclaimed ‘Something good is happening in Jerusalem!’), drew thousands of attendees, mostly Haredim. The program included a discussion of ritual sacrifice and an exhibit presenting a model of the Temple. It also showcased a virtual presentation illustrating the construction of the Third Temple on the ruins of the Dome of the Rock. The conference was held under the auspices of the Jerusalem Municipality’s Department of Religious Culture.

$150,000 in funding for pro-Temple groups. Does this sound like it's a priority?

Misperception: Messianic Temple Mount extremists are a tiny minority in Israel and are on the fringes of society.
The Facts:

  • Once considered to be on the margins of the Israeli political right, the Temple Mount movement has grown rapidly over the past decade and a half and has become mainstream.
  • Growing numbers of Israeli rabbis are approving, and even encouraging, Jews to visit the Noble Sanctuary/Temple Mount, something that until recently was opposed by the vast majority of Jewish religious authorities based on theological grounds.
Israel is one of the least religious countries on earth. Two-thirds of Israelis claim no religion at all.

Messianic Temple Mount extremists who advocate the building of a Jewish temple in the Noble Sanctuary mosque complex now sit in powerful positions in government, including ministerial posts.
The minister of agriculture. Big whoop. Again, hardly a front burner issue.

The Facts:
  • Israel routinely violates the religious rights and freedoms of Palestinians in East Jerusalem and the rest of the occupied territories.
  • Israeli authorities frequently prevent access to the Noble Sanctuary to Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem by implementing age and gender restrictions that prohibit men under a certain age, such as 50-years-old, from entering to worship.
  • The Israeli government denies millions of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza access to East Jerusalem and its holy sites. Millions of other Palestinians living in Jordan, Lebanon and elsewhere in the diaspora are similarly denied the right to worship freely at their holy sites in Jerusalem.
One hundred percent of restrictions to the Temple Mount have been in response to Muslim violence. For instance, just last week, three guys came out of the mosque with machine guns and killed two Jews.
 

DesertRose

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Thunderian,that state was birthed by its violence and is sustained by its violence.
(the only problem with that vidro is the continued lies about 9/11)
Keep spewing your brainwashed propaganda, Thunderian.
You may sway some but your pet state is well known around the world for its ugliness.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/07/israel-removing-metal-detectors-al-aqsa-compound-170724214814179.html
Israel removes metal detectors from al-Aqsa compound
Palestinians continue to protest as mosque official says move does not fulfill Muslims' demands to remove CCTV cameras.
 
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Thunderian

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Thunderian,that state was birthed by its violence and is sustained by its violence.
It's Arab Muslims who attacked Israel the day after its birth and have been attacking it ever since, while the Jewish state accepts all citizens as equal and seeks peace with it's neighbours..

It's Arab Muslims who are stabbing Jews in the streets and in their homes, machine gunning them outside mosques, running them over as they walk to synagogue, attacking them with bottles and rocks and firebombs, and calling for the hills of Jerusalem to run red Jewish blood, while Israel calls for no retaliation, and treats the terrorists who attack them in their own hospitals.

It's Arab Muslims who violently oppose any attempt by Jews to pray at their own holiest site, the Temple Mount, while Israel goes along with Muslim wishes, preventing by law their own people from worshiping there.

It's Arab Muslims who are teaching their children that Jews are apes and pigs, evil subhumans that must all be put to death for Allah's sake, while Jewish volunteers take these same Palestinian children for treatment in Israeli clinics.

It's Arab Muslims who have refused every chance at peace, who have broken every treaty, and who spend almost all their energy attacking Jews, and it's Israel who has given up land for peace, and who has withheld it's hand during war, when any other nation on earth, faced with the same unrelenting violence and bloodthirsty intransigence, would have wiped them all out years ago.
 

manama

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It's Arab Muslims who attacked Israel the day after its birth and have been attacking it ever since, while the Jewish state accepts all citizens as equal and seeks peace with it's neighbours..

It's Arab Muslims who are stabbing Jews in the streets and in their homes, machine gunning them outside mosques, running them over as they walk to synagogue, attacking them with bottles and rocks and firebombs, and calling for the hills of Jerusalem to run red Jewish blood, while Israel calls for no retaliation, and treats the terrorists who attack them in their own hospitals.

It's Arab Muslims who violently oppose any attempt by Jews to pray at their own holiest site, the Temple Mount, while Israel goes along with Muslim wishes, preventing by law their own people from worshiping there.

It's Arab Muslims who are teaching their children that Jews are apes and pigs, evil subhumans that must all be put to death for Allah's sake, while Jewish volunteers take these same Palestinian children for treatment in Israeli clinics.

It's Arab Muslims who have refused every chance at peace, who have broken every treaty, and who spend almost all their energy attacking Jews, and it's Israel who has given up land for peace, and who has withheld it's hand during war, when any other nation on earth, faced with the same unrelenting violence and bloodthirsty intransigence, would have wiped them all out years ago.
Can you pls not add all "ARAB MUSLIMS" into the same category? Arab is a lose term and most of us don't care about that. The fact that you are putting all arab muslims at blame for what 3 people did, i can't help but feel that vcf messed with your head badly.
 

Thunderian

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Can you pls not add all "ARAB MUSLIMS" into the same category? Arab is a lose term and most of us don't care about that. The fact that you are putting all arab muslims at blame for what 3 people did, i can't help but feel that vcf messed with your head badly.
I am not blaming all Arabs or all Muslims, nor am I confused about the difference between the two. But in every single instance that I used the term in that post, it is accurate and correct. If you have some reason to believe otherwise, please post it for us.
 

Serendipity

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Well, ok then....
I really haven't been on here much this summer due to work and a busy personal schedule, so I am playing a little catch up.

You know all this upheaval is according to plan and supposed to ignite a war of end-time proportions. The elite must have their god.
We are all the puppets.
It doesn't make a difference whether it's according to the plan or not. We're not going to bow our heads down and accept whatever they throw at us. We are puppets if we accept their plans blindly but we don't and never will.
 

Serendipity

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Can you can find one credible example of a Palestinian being killed by the IDF or Israeli police for no reason, from any time in the last year?
Yes I can find examples not just one but you're not going to accept the sources anyway so why bother? I also saw it personally but what do I know? It's not like I go there and experience everything firsthand.

As for what's happening at the Temple Mount, you know this is because three Israeli Arabs attacked and killed two Israeli policemen, right?
Palestinians have every right for armed resistance. It's been over 60 years and things are getting worse. Do you know what it's like to live there? It's suffocating and I do not blame them for feeling that way. Those 'policemen',who are armed to the teeth, had no right being there in the first place. And they're not terrorists. :)

How does a religion of peace inspire it's followers to murder people within its own holy site?
Lol. Defending your country is a holy thing regardless of what you say. Palestinian Christians do the same thing. Is Christian now a religion of violence? Your logic is flawless.

Israelis partying, drinking and dancing in the Sanctuary of Abraham is totally fine? Guess partying is a holy thing now.

And when the police and the waqf searched the area, they found even more weapons.
So what if they found weapons? We have every right for armed resistance.

How can you call Islam a religion of peace, when it's followers do things like this at the urging of their religious and political leaders?

Two days ago a Palestinian broke into a home and stabbed to death three Jews as they sat at their shabbot meal. Stabbed them to death in front of their family. In front of their little children.
Well, settlers killed a girl the other day and didn't allow the ambulance to get to her. It goes both ways. The settlers are the scum of the earth. Please don't preach to me when you don't even know what they do on daily basis.

Hamas, as well as many, many Palestinians, have hailed this attacker and the terrorists on the Temple Mount as heroes.
Yes, they're heroes in my eyes. These people should leave my country if they want this to stop happening.

It's very hard to have sympathy for the legitimate complaints of the Palestinians when they act like this.
We don't need your sympathy, we've been fighting this cause on our own for decades now and will keep fighting to the end.
 

Serendipity

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It's Arab Muslims who attacked Israel the day after its birth and have been attacking it ever since, while the Jewish state accepts all citizens as equal and seeks peace with it's neighbours..

It's Arab Muslims who are stabbing Jews in the streets and in their homes, machine gunning them outside mosques, running them over as they walk to synagogue, attacking them with bottles and rocks and firebombs, and calling for the hills of Jerusalem to run red Jewish blood, while Israel calls for no retaliation, and treats the terrorists who attack them in their own hospitals.

It's Arab Muslims who violently oppose any attempt by Jews to pray at their own holiest site, the Temple Mount, while Israel goes along with Muslim wishes, preventing by law their own people from worshiping there.

It's Arab Muslims who are teaching their children that Jews are apes and pigs, evil subhumans that must all be put to death for Allah's sake, while Jewish volunteers take these same Palestinian children for treatment in Israeli clinics.

It's Arab Muslims who have refused every chance at peace, who have broken every treaty, and who spend almost all their energy attacking Jews, and it's Israel who has given up land for peace, and who has withheld it's hand during war, when any other nation on earth, faced with the same unrelenting violence and bloodthirsty intransigence, would have wiped them all out years ago.
It's convenient that you leave out the Sykes-Picot agreement and the Balfour declaration. All of your post is bs.
 

Thunderian

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Yes I can find examples not just one but you're not going to accept the sources anyway so why bother?
Do you think I am the only one reading your replies? Post your links and let the other readers decide if they want to trust them.

You said that Israel is killing Palestinians every day for no reason. You expect me to believe that with a hostile press swarming all over every move Israel makes, and a Palestinian media arm that turns every interaction between the IDF and any Palestinian into a human rights outrage, there is zero evidence of these daily murders?
 

marcecar10

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M
It's Arab Muslims who attacked Israel the day after its birth and have been attacking it ever since, while the Jewish state accepts all citizens as equal and seeks peace with it's neighbours..

It's Arab Muslims who are stabbing Jews in the streets and in their homes, machine gunning them outside mosques, running them over as they walk to synagogue, attacking them with bottles and rocks and firebombs, and calling for the hills of Jerusalem to run red Jewish blood, while Israel calls for no retaliation, and treats the terrorists who attack them in their own hospitals.

It's Arab Muslims who violently oppose any attempt by Jews to pray at their own holiest site, the Temple Mount, while Israel goes along with Muslim wishes, preventing by law their own people from worshiping there.

It's Arab Muslims who are teaching their children that Jews are apes and pigs, evil subhumans that must all be put to death for Allah's sake, while Jewish volunteers take these same Palestinian children for treatment in Israeli clinics.

It's Arab Muslims who have refused every chance at peace, who have broken every treaty, and who spend almost all their energy attacking Jews, and it's Israel who has given up land for peace, and who has withheld it's hand during war, when any other nation on earth, faced with the same unrelenting violence and bloodthirsty intransigence, would have wiped them all out years ago.
I don't accept the actions of these individuals who call themselves Palestinians and throw shit at a cause that is struggling so hard to make it in this crazy times. But still that makes Israel no freaking angel whatsoever. Israel's military actions, alleged racism and extreme policies also throw shade at its human rights record and other milestones achieved by them.
 
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