The Vigilant Citizen Forums

Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction. (Isa 48:10)
The refining pot is for silver and the furnace for gold, but the Lord tests the hearts.” (Prov 17:3)
For You, O God, have tested us; you have refined us as silver is refined. (Ps 66:10)

Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I keep Your word. You are good, and do good… It is good for me that I have been afflicted, that I may learn Your statutes.” (Ps 119:67-68,71)

Sodom and Gommorah was judged and the fire of God consumed them. Yet Ezekiel says even Sodom will be restored by God
53 “‘However, I will restore the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters, and your fortunes along with them, 54 so that you may bear your disgrace and be ashamed of all you have done in giving them comfort. 55 And your sisters, Sodom with her daughters and Samaria with her

At the Great White Throne Judgment, the wicked will be judged according to their works and will receive their part in the furnace of fire (also called Gehenna fire or the Lake of Fire and Sulfur). (Rev 20:12; 21:8) The phrases “According to their works” and “their part,” as also Jesus’ reference to “many stripes” or “few stripes,” are not consistent with eternal torment.

when speaking of Gehenna fire, Jesus said that they would not get out of there “until” they had paid their debt. (Matt 5:26; 18:34) By saying “until,” He rules out any concept of unending fiery torment or extermination. What all these terms are perfectly consistent with is the imagery of the refiner’s fire which continues only until it has purified that which is precious in the eyes of the refiner.

Is the first death good or is it a punishment? Everyone dies. The 2nd death being thrown into the lake of fire...sounds a little like throwing out the trash not a refining moment. Those verses don’t prove your theory about the lake of fire since they don’t correspond to the lake of fire, you can’t just cherry pick and its all good.

You sure like to go through hoops to “prove” your point.

No more than the hoops you go through to defend your Sadistic representation of God. A God who claims he wants all men to be saved but is not capable of saving them all. Though he states the wages of sin is death he supposedly brings the dead back to life just so he can torment them with no purpose for all eternity.

He is totally capable of saving all, but it is by faith that we are saved, we have to believe the truth and there is only one truth. No one gets a free pass on sin, there is a punishment for sin...why do you think Jesus went through so much to save us..the lake of fire is not a redemptive state but a state of eternal punishment. God didn’t go through all His sufferings for nothing.

You don’t even see the absurdity of your response! If even one person is ultimately not reconciled to God than Jesus Christ failed in his mission. I agree Jesus went through so much to save us all! You are correct he did not go through all the sufferings so that the majority of humanity would suffer eternally in hell. How cruel of the Father to ask Jesus to do what he did if it wasn’t sufficient to save all!

Yes, Jesus put everything on the line to save us. However He also created us with free will. We have to choose to be saved. If we don't, we will pay for our own sins because we did not accept Jesus' gift of salvation. The lake of fire will end and destroy all the unrighteous lives forever including Satan's and all the evil angels. Sin will never exist again. This is biblical.

If anyone says any different they are the ones being absurd and not speaking according to the word of God.

“God … gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16).

The opposite of everlasting life is everlasting death. Only those who choose Christ will live eternally.

“ ‘Behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, and all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up ... that will leave them neither root nor branch. ... You shall trample the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,’ says the Lord of hosts” (Malachi 4:1, 3).

“Rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” (Matthew 10:28).

“The soul who sins shall die” (Ezekiel 18:20).

“Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41).

“Anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:15).

Thank you @phipps for stating the obvious and well known perspective of the orthodox traditions of man. Of course any scholar worth his weight knows the greek word translated as "everlasting" in all the scriptures you posted above is "aionios". Aionios doe not mean eternal or infinite but means a long but definite period of time, so your scripture references do nothing to prove eternal torment.

Ezekiel 18:20 alone disproves eternal torment. It says the soul who sins shall die. It does not say the soul who sins shall suffer eternal torment. It is only because of the work on the cross that anyone will be resurrected. So did God the Father send Jesus to die on the cross just so he could ressurrect unbelievers so he could sadisticly torment them for eternity?

@Todd, everlasting in the Bible means forever. Its not a perspective especially after you read everything the Bible has to say about hell. Its also clear unless one doesn't want to accept the true Word of God because they can't envisage God destroying all the unrighteous and sin forever. Its not something He wants to do but it has to be done to end sin. God has warned us over and over about this in the Bible.

No it doesn't. A simple survey of greek writings from the period the NT was written clearly shows the correct word for "forever" is "aidios". Aionios clearly means an age or definite period of time. I understand that the blinders of dogma and the traditions of organized religion prevent most Christian's from accepting this, but it is fact nonetheless.

@phipps, A God who is forced to do something he does not want to do, is not Omnipotent. The God I serve and worship is Omnipotent.

The “eternal hell of torment” theory is not biblical. A loving God would not torment even Satan eternally. Such a theory is slander against the Holy name of a loving God. There will be punishment then the wicked will die forever, never to exist again. Read, Matthew 16:27, Luke 12:47-48, Revelation 22:12.