No regard...for the desire of women

[Haich]

What I do know is this....muslim women wear the burka, no one else on earth wears that garment if they aren’t muslim. Which is why I say, given the chance the women wouldn’t wear such things...

Actually many Hindu women and nuns wear similiar clothing. You don't have to be Muslim to wear long clothes. The face veil isn't at all part of Islam and many who choose to wear it are bound by cultural regulations. Either way, it's their right to wear it. Please tell about these people you claim are being forced and how is it that you're helping them?

Given the chance? Listen love, no one wears it and you keep linking images of Iranian women like they represent the entirety of Islam.

 

[Haich]

And she lived in a muslim community where they did that to other little girls.

Haha omg Lisa are you trying to tell me about my own community. Please enlighten me about what you know about the Somali community. Go on, please tell me.

 

[Serveto]

Gay people aren’t trying to remove freedom of religion. A system like Islam would.

I don't think things are quite so simple and clearly cut. For instance, if a "system of Islam" invariably, I emphasize invariably, removes all freedom of religion, please explain how and why it is that, when, for example, in 1492 Ferdinand and Isabella, Catholic King and Queen of Spain, expelled Jews as a whole from Spain, many of the Jews who survived the ordeal went down into (Muslim) Morocco, Fez, and even Palestine itself and were received and became active participants in the Turkish Empire. That "freedom" might not have been perfect, by any means, and it won't stand up to modern standards and definitions of the term, but it was better than their collective fate in "Christian," as the author below no doubt objectionably describes it, Spain.

"... Ferdinand and Isabella rejected Torquemada's demand that the Jews be expelled until January 1492, when the Spanish Army defeated Muslim forces in Granada, thereby restoring the whole of Spain to Christian rule. With their most important project, the country's unification, accomplished, the king and queen concluded that the Jews were expendable. On March 30, they issued the expulsion decree, the order to take effect in precisely four months. The short time span was a great boon to the rest of Spain, as the Jews were forced to liquidate their homes and businesses at absurdly low prices. Throughout those frantic months, Dominican priests actively encouraged Jews to convert to Christianity and thereby gain salvation both in this world and the next.

The most fortunate of the expelled Jews succeeded in escaping to [Islamic] Turkey. Sultan Bajazet welcomed them warmly. "How can you call Ferdinand of Aragon a wise king," he was fond of asking, "the same Ferdinand who impoverished his own land and enriched ours?"
Source​

 

[Serveto]

For those who might be interested in basic Anthropology (and music), please consider this, a description of the Tuareg peoples of Mali, a West African nation:

"In Tuareg society women do not traditionally wear the veil, whereas men do. The most famous Tuareg symbol is the Tagelmust (also called éghéwed and litham), referred to as a Cheche (pronounced "Shesh"), an often indigo blue-colored veil called Alasho. The men's facial covering originates from the belief that such action wards off evil spirits. It may have related instrumentally from the need for protection from the harsh desert sands as well. It is a firmly established tradition, as is the wearing of amulets containing sacred objects and, recently, verses from the Qur'an. Taking on the veil is associated with the rite of passage to manhood; men begin wearing a veil when they reach maturity. The veil usually conceals their face, excluding their eyes and the top of the nose."
{excuse the} Source​

By the way, some of them, like, really rock. They not only rocked but also wowed WOMAD, for instance, and here a group of them, known as Tinariwen, dressed in so called "tents," or native clothing, are not only visiting the studios of KEXP in Seattle, but are, like, jammin' ...

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

"No regard for the desire of women"...

Or "no regard for the 'desired of women'" as in the one who Jewish women desired to give birth to... The Messiah.

 

[Lisa]

Ayan is a proven liar. I know of her family who are great people, very humble and educated. She lied to gain asylum and lied about being forced to marry her cousin. She has absolutely nothing credible to her name and she's gained a following through her deceitful story. Her father spoke at a Somali conference last year, he was absolutely appalled by her behaviour. She has no contact with her family at all...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/1518532/Critic-of-Islam-to-quit-Holland-after-lies-are-exposed.html

So, she's an atheist and your a Christian. Exactly where does the interest in her stem from? She completely blasts people of faith, including you, so why would you read her book?

I read her book because I was interested in what she had to say. I thought it was a darn good book!
From what she’s gone through with islam, one can understand how it has skewed her about God.

From what I’ve read about islam, once you’ve decided to leave it, death is the penalty. So, it’s not surprising her family are saying stuff about her. Though I am a little surprised her dad is speaking against her since he didn’t want her to have the FGM, it was her grandma that did it to her if I remember correctly.

I’ve heard she has had and I don’t know about now, but she has had body guards. So, if she was in fact wrong, why is she scared for her life? So scared indeed, that she has bodyguards? I believe she took part in a film...I keep thinking fitna but I think that was Geert Wilders. She did one about women and islam, I believe. So maybe that has something to do with why muslims want her dead.


Her book though doesn’t just go through what’s happened to her in her early life but follows her to Denmark and how she eventually became part of parliament. Who would have guessed that that would have happened to her. Very interesting life she has lived.

Edit for misspellings

 

[Lisa]

Yh keep believing she's a genuine person, honestly you love anything which supports your narrative of Islam.

In the same thread Scepta Cool Air, posted various articles showing the truth about what's happening in Sweden so have a read.

Well isn’t spectacoolair actually scimi? Scimi who lives in England?

Vixy seems like a genuine person to me...

 

[Lisa]

Actually many Hindu women and nuns wear similiar clothing. You don't have to be Muslim to wear long clothes. The face veil isn't at all part of Islam and many who choose to wear it are bound by cultural regulations. Either way, it's their right to wear it. Please tell about these people you claim are being forced and how is it that you're helping them?

Given the chance? Listen love, no one wears it and you keep linking images of Iranian women like they represent the entirety of Islam.

Well, women do wear the tent, and I do question whether they really want to or they have to put of fear. And if it is out of fear they wouldn’t be able to truly be honest about how they feel.

 

[Lisa]

Haha omg Lisa are you trying to tell me about my own community. Please enlighten me about what you know about the Somali community. Go on, please tell me.

You can laugh, but it didn’t sound too funny when I read about it in her book.

 

[Lisa]

"No regard for the desire of women"...

Or "no regard for the 'desired of women'" as in the one who Jewish women desired to give birth to... The Messiah.

Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. Daniel 11:37 KJV

Um...no, I even have posted it in the KJV translation so you could see for yourself. It is the desire of women.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. Daniel 11:37 KJV

Um...no, I even have posted it in the KJV translation so you could see for yourself. It is the desire of women.

The verse contains both possibilities...

http://www.kjvtoday.com/home/the-desire-of-women-or-the-one-desired-by-women-in-daniel-1137

 

[Lisa]

Homosexuality is the same experience. I have also encountered several people here who claim homosexual orientation that have a profound understanding of scripture, so I don't believe that homosexuality is like spitting in God's face. I think we don't have a complete understand of what the Bible is referring to from a historical perspective because the western world is the only real place that we consider homosexuality as a sort of orientation.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them. Romans 1:18-32

 

[Lisa]

The verse contains both possibilities...

http://www.kjvtoday.com/home/the-desire-of-women-or-the-one-desired-by-women-in-daniel-1137

I go by the NASB and that traslation says what the op says.

 

[rainerann]

I don't think things are quite so simple and clearly cut. For instance, if a "system of Islam" invariably, I emphasize invariably, removes all freedom of religion, please explain how and why it is that, when, for example, in 1492 Ferdinand and Isabella, Catholic King and Queen of Spain, expelled Jews as a whole from Spain, many of the Jews who survived the ordeal went down into (Muslim) Morocco, Fez, and even Palestine itself and were received and became active participants in the Turkish Empire. That "freedom" might not have been perfect, by any means, and it won't stand up to modern standards and definitions of the term, but it was better than their collective fate in "Christian," as the author below no doubt objectionably describes it, Spain.

"... Ferdinand and Isabella rejected Torquemada's demand that the Jews be expelled until January 1492, when the Spanish Army defeated Muslim forces in Granada, thereby restoring the whole of Spain to Christian rule. With their most important project, the country's unification, accomplished, the king and queen concluded that the Jews were expendable. On March 30, they issued the expulsion decree, the order to take effect in precisely four months. The short time span was a great boon to the rest of Spain, as the Jews were forced to liquidate their homes and businesses at absurdly low prices. Throughout those frantic months, Dominican priests actively encouraged Jews to convert to Christianity and thereby gain salvation both in this world and the next.

The most fortunate of the expelled Jews succeeded in escaping to [Islamic] Turkey. Sultan Bajazet welcomed them warmly. "How can you call Ferdinand of Aragon a wise king," he was fond of asking, "the same Ferdinand who impoverished his own land and enriched ours?"
Source​

It is actually a reference to the Reliance of the Traveller which details what freedom of religion looks like under Islamic rule. There is no equality of individuals. It really isn't something I would imagine anyone from a western perspective defending.

I am also generically referencing the Iranian revolution which converted the country to an Islamic system. I can't see again how this could ever be defended from a western perspective.

I am also referencing the Quran that details many verses that distinguish a status between Muslims and non-Muslims. I just didn't type all of this out for the sake of not writing a novel.

Although, you are not defending this from a Western perspective. You are defending this in contrast to the way the Spaniards treated the Jews and expelled them from the land that was a Christian majority. You are suggesting that there is more tolerance of other faiths within an Islamic system than there is with a Christian majority.

However, like I have suggested before, Jews don't make the best historians. I don't really believe the account given because I do study what they refer to as blood libel and I don't believe these are all falsified accounts that were used to persecute the Jews. So I believe that the Jews were expelled from Spain because of the incident that is known as the Holy Child of La Guardia which took place a year before they were expelled. It is said that King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella were trying to address this issue when the decision was made to expel the Jews in something I read a while back.

If you study this history, there are too many reasons to believe that this isn't some legend that people used to discriminate against people. So I don't know what that does to your comparison, but there it is.

 

[Haich]

[

I read her book because I was interested in what she had to say. I thought it was a darn good book!
From what she’s gone through with islam, one can understand how it has skewed her about God.

From what I’ve read about islam, once you’ve decided to leave it, death is the penalty. So, it’s not surprising her family are saying stuff about her. Though I am a little surprised her dad is speaking against her since he didn’t want her to have the FGM, it was her grandma that did it to her if I remember correctly.

I’ve heard she has had and I don’t know about now, but she has had body guards. So, if she was in fact wrong, why is she scared for her life? So scared indeed, that she has bodyguards? I believe she took part in a film...I keep thinking fitna but I think that was Geert Wilders. She did one about women and islam, I believe. So maybe that has something to do with why muslims want her sead


Her book though doesn’t just go through what’s happened to her in her early life but follows her to Denmark and how she eventually became part of parliament. Who would have guessed that that would ah e happened to her. Very interesting life she has lived.

There's no compulsion in religion, if someone leaves Islam that's their choice. The wider community may condemn them for it but that's with all faiths. Death should never be a punishment for someone who chooses to leave a faith and I'm opposed to it.

She has been cursing her own people (Somalis) and fuelling the Islamic community with anger. She isn't an intellectual critic, she's a slanderous liar who has absolutely no credit to her name. She was a refugee and used a fake name and age and a fake story, to gain asylum in Europe. She did all this because she wanted to leave Islam and felt the only way she could leave it, was to make up a ridiculous sob story about her life. She lived in bliss and she's thrown her family under a bus, for what?

A lot of people do want her dead, I don't agree with this but she's caused a lot of upset and she can't go around poking the grizzly bear and cry wolf when she gets the reaction she wanted.

Muslims don't want her dead, some very offended people want her dead and they don't represent Islam so stop lumping people together.

 

[Haich]

You can laugh, but it didn’t sound too funny when I read about it in her book.

You didn't answer my question. What about my community did you learn?

 

[Haich]

Well, women do wear the tent, and I do question whether they really want to or they have to put of fear. And if it is out of fear they wouldn’t be able to truly be honest about how they feel.

I can assure you, fhey chose to wear these garments. You can call it a tent, you can call it oppressive but it's their choice. You are a Christian woman and have absolutely no business or authority telling Muslim women what they can wear. Your commentary on their garments is based on a complete and utter ignorant and oblivious comprehension of the complicated crossover of culture and religion. You're so out of your depth so stick to singing hymns since you have no desire to actually learn about these people.

 

[Kung Fu]

I am also referencing the Quran that details many verses that distinguish a status between Muslims and non-Muslims. I just didn't type all of this out for the sake of not writing a novel.

Every time you have posted a verse from the Quran it was in isolation where you never posted the verse afterwards or the one before it or addressed the situation at the time that specific verse was brought down. Also, there's nothing wrong in distinguishing between groups of people as long as it's not racist or based on violence. What piece of literature doesn't make comparisons between different groups of people?

Although, you are not defending this from a Western perspective. You are defending this in contrast to the way the Spaniards treated the Jews and expelled them from the land that was a Christian majority. You are suggesting that there is more tolerance of other faiths within an Islamic system than there is with a Christian majority.

When the Islamic world was free and truly sovereign, unlike today, they were very tolerant. Historians have stated this time and time again.

However, like I have suggested before, Jews don't make the best historians. I don't really believe the account given because I do study what they refer to as blood libel and I don't believe these are all falsified accounts that were used to persecute the Jews. So I believe that the Jews were expelled from Spain because of the incident that is known as the Holy Child of La Guardia which took place a year before they were expelled. It is said that King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella were trying to address this issue when the decision was made to expel the Jews in something I read a while back.

Right, and we should believe you instead. Sorry sweetheart but that's not how it works.

 

[Haich]

Well isn’t spectacoolair actually scimi? Scimi who lives in England?

Vixy seems like a genuine person to me...

I don't know who this infamous scimi is, you guys talk about him like he's Voldemort. Get over him.

 

[Haich]

We have two old white women, who have absolutely no interest in actually getting to know the Muslims on here and attempting to understand their faith and background, constantly patrolling and polluting the board with their anti-Muslim rhetoric. The worse thing is, the few pathetic attempts i've seen them decipher a hadith or a verse from the Quran, they've been incredibly slimy and posted part of a verse, with absolutely no context and background to the revelation of said text.

Context, time of revelation and who the verses are addressing are integral to understanding Islamic scripture.