No regard...for the desire of women

[Lisa]

[


There's no compulsion in religion, if someone leaves Islam that's their choice. The wider community may condemn them for it but that's with all faiths. Death should never be a punishment for someone who chooses to leave a faith and I'm opposed to it.

She has been cursing her own people (Somalis) and fuelling the Islamic community with anger. She isn't an intellectual critic, she's a slanderous liar who has absolutely no credit to her name. She was a refugee and used a fake name and age and a fake story, to gain asylum in Europe. She did all this because she wanted to leave Islam and felt the only way she could leave it, was to make up a ridiculous sob story about her life. She lived in bliss and she's thrown her family under a bus, for what?

A lot of people do want her dead, I don't agree with this but she's caused a lot of upset and she can't go around poking the grizzly bear and cry wolf when she gets the reaction she wanted.

Muslims don't want her dead, some very offended people want her dead and they don't represent Islam so stop lumping people together.

Ya, that is the narrative from official islam....

Well, in your story you say she did it because she felt it was the only way to leave islam...if it isn’t true, then just leave it, no need to make up any story.

I don’t think she threw her family under the bus. What especially makes you think that?

I like the quote by Theo Van Gogh, can’t we just talk about this? Too bad it was when he was being stabbed to death...but muslims don’t really understand that concept. Like with DesertRose, if we insult the prophet then we get abuse. Well, for her maybe what is said is insulting, but for someone like me, I think can’t we just talk about this? So, I can see why she has bodyguards and why she might feel like her life is in danger talking about how islam was to her.

Yep, its not real islam and not real muslims...

 

[Haich]

I mean you're taking your knowledge of Islam, from an atheist who has proven she has no understanding of Islamic scripture and has slandered her nation of Somalia.

And I'm supposed to believe you're a genuine and impartial person?

 

[Lisa]

You didn't answer my question. What about my community did you learn?

That it is what I have always hear third world countries are like. Seems pretty barbarious to for the FGM portion and how islam totally dictates life in negative ways.

 

[rainerann]

Maybe you didn't notice that, my above statement. Speaking of "Western" standards and post-Christian modernity, what do you think, for instance, of a (theoretical) bill of international "Human Rights" which would include abortion on demand, transgenderism, etc., being ultimately enacted, by means of the United Nations and international courts of law, upon its participating member states, including Muslim majority. Do you think that is something to be encouraged? Are those some of the "Western" standards to which you refer?

I did notice this as well. No I don't believe that the United Nations should have international control or that there should be an international bill of rights. I believe in a small government based on a principle from Proverbs 30:8-9.

So government should be small and law should be simple and have the means to change throughout time. The complexity, as well as the theological connection, is what makes Islamic law not up to par with western standards.

Therefore, I find a bill of international human rights equally complex. Human rights don't need to be defined if there is freedom. We should be an example of this freedom that makes nations want to adopt a constitution rather than layer existing governments with a list of what they determine are universal human rights.

What happens is that a complex legal system establishes a consequence that conflicts with labeling something a human right. If there was less law and fewer consequences that could be enforced by law, there would be no need for an international list of human rights. However, Islamic law cannot be reduced and retain its identity, and it is a bloated legal system that hinders human rights and freedoms.

 

[Lisa]

You didn't answer my question. What about my community did you learn?

That it is what I have always hear third world countries are like. Seems pretty barbarious to for the FGM portion and how islam totally dictates life in negative ways.

I can assure you, fhey chose to wear these garments. You can call it a tent, you can call it oppressive but it's their choice. You are a Christian woman and have absolutely no business or authority telling Muslim women what they can wear. Your commentary on their garments is based on a complete and utter ignorant and oblivious comprehension of the complicated crossover of culture and religion. You're so out of your depth so stick to singing hymns since you have no desire to actually learn about these people.

I’m not telling anyone what they can and cannot wear. I find as a woman that it looks oppressive and like a cloth prison.
It looks simple to me...wear it you might not get raped, don’t, and you will. Wear it and your submissive to your male family members, don’t and there may be an honor killing waiting for you.

 

[Lisa]

I don't know who this infamous scimi is, you guys talk about him like he's Voldemort. Get over him.

You didn’t know scimi before he got banned from this forum?

 

[Lisa]

We have two old white women, who have absolutely no interest in actually getting to know the Muslims on here and attempting to understand their faith and background, constantly patrolling and polluting the board with their anti-Muslim rhetoric. The worse thing is, the few pathetic attempts i've seen them decipher a hadith or a verse from the Quran, they've been incredibly slimy and posted part of a verse, with absolutely no context and background to the revelation of said text.

Context, time of revelation and who the verses are addressing are integral to understanding Islamic scripture.

Who is the other “old” woman here?

 

[Haich]

Ya, that is the narrative from official islam....

Well, in your story you say she did it because she felt it was the only way to leave islam...if it isn’t true, then just leave it, no need to make up any story.

I don’t think she threw her family under the bus. What especially makes you think that?

I like the quote by Theo Van Gogh, can’t we just talk about this? Too bad it was when he was being stabbed to death...but muslims don’t really understand that concept. Like with DesertRose, if we insult the prophet then we get abuse. Well, for her maybe what is said is insulting, but for someone like me, I think can’t we just talk about this? So, I can see why she has bodyguards and why she might feel like her life is in danger talking about how islam was to her.

Yep, its not real islam and not real muslims...

She's well known in my community, I know her home town and her clan and her father has spoken a lot on Somali media. There's no point in me posting his talks as he's speaking in Somali. I'm telling you what I know about my own community. She's a farce and you're free to believe her but it only proves your hypocrisy. I think you're a deluded person who is obsessed with bringing Islam down. That's fine, continue wiith your crusade.

She's not interested in talking, I've seen Hiris debates. She's an offensive human and I personally don't care for her. She's entitled to her opinions but I know the truth about her life back home and she has definitely lied to the world about being forced into marriage.

What makes you want to insult people's faiths? Can't you just ask questions and agree to disagree?

 

[Haich]

You didn’t know scimi before he got banned from this forum?

Nope, wasn't on the old forums.

 

[Lisa]

I mean you're taking your knowledge of Islam, from an atheist who has proven she has no understanding of Islamic scripture and has slandered her nation of Somalia.

And I'm supposed to believe you're a genuine and impartial person?

I don’t believe you have ever thought anything good about me in all this time because of my beliefs anyway.

I’m taking into consideration the words from a woman who lived much of her life in islam and then came out of it. In her book, she at one stage was very into islam and the quranic scriptures. That she is an atheist now, is understandable in that she probably feels that all religion is bad now.

 

[Haich]

That it is what I have always hear third world countries are like. Seems pretty barbarious to for the FGM portion and how islam totally dictates life in negative ways.

Third world countries? Nice. You really do look down on anyone from a non western country don't you.

Lol how in the blue hell is FGM related to Islam?

 

[Lisa]

Nope, wasn't on the old forums.

He was on this current forum for a while and then got banned, and apparently came back as spectacoolair..and maybe has other accounts..idk

 

[Lisa]

She's well known in my community, I know her home town and her clan and her father has spoken a lot on Somali media. There's no point in me posting his talks as he's speaking in Somali. I'm telling you what I know about my own community. She's a farce and you're free to believe her but it only proves your hypocrisy. I think you're a deluded person who is obsessed with bringing Islam down. That's fine, continue wiith your crusade.

She's not interested in talking, I've seen Hiris debates. She's an offensive human and I personally don't care for her. She's entitled to her opinions but I know the truth about her life back home and she has definitely lied to the world about being forced into marriage.

What makes you want to insult people's faiths? Can't you just ask questions and agree to disagree?

Well, I believe her over you. You being in islam are practicing taquiya are you not? She doesn’t have to do that anymore, and is open with what has happened to her.

Ive seen her speeches and she sounds very poised and intelligent. I think she even would like it if islam could change for the better...

I don’t insult you at all, but you are calling me an old woman....
No, I can’t agree to disagree, I don’t believe you to be truthful.

 

[Haich]

I don’t believe you have ever thought anything good about me in all this time because of my beliefs anyway.

I’m taking into consideration the words from a woman who lived much of her life in islam and then came out of it. In her book, she at one stage was very into islam and the quranic scriptures. That she is an atheist now, is understandable in that she probably feels that all religion is bad now.

You're correct, I don't think good of you at all. It's a shame that someone of your age doesn't show much tolerance and kindness to others of different backgrounds. It's sad because you've had a lifetime to meet Muslims and try to find some common ground but you've clearly never interacted with them at length, hence your fierce and stubborn judgement of them. You are free to disagree with Islam but your attitude is intolerant and islamaphobic.

Your beliefs are cancerous and really don't allow for a cohesive and communal society to exist. You remind me of the Trump followers blaming Muslims and Mexicans for their problems. I hope you change your attitude towards others, bitterness will only destroy you.

No she never practiced, she was never into Islam and it's because her cultural limitations didn't allow her to question scripture. This is wrong and everyone has the write to critique their faith, it's what makes you grow as a believer.

 

[Lisa]

Third world countries? Nice. You really do look down on anyone from a non western country don't you.

Lol how in the blue hell is FGM related to Islam?

Is not Somalia considered a third world country? Its not like I made it up. America is considered a first world country, again I have not made that up. I don’t look down on anyone, but we do have different cultures and different ways of looking at things.

Ayaan was a muslim and had FGM done to her...

 

[Haich]

Well, I believe her over you. You being in islam are practicing taquiya are you not? She doesn’t have to do that anymore, and is open with what has happened to her.

Ive seen her speeches and she sounds very poised and intelligent. I think she even would like it if islam could change for the better...

I don’t insult you at all, but you are calling me an old woman....
No, I can’t agree to disagree, I don’t believe you to be truthful.

I've explained this to you before but as usual, you seem to know better than me- a Muslim. I don't know what the hell this taqqiah thing you rabbit on about is, i have absolutely no shame and issue with my faith and openly discuss it with sound people.

Lool you sound like a conspiracy theorist, you believe we Muslims just harbour secret information and conceal it from others.

Wow you're so argumentative

 

[mecca]

You being in islam are practicing taquiya are you not?

How many times do people have to tell you that's not true?

 

[Haich]

Is not Somalia considered a third world country? Its not like I made it up. America is considered a first world country, again I have not made that up. I don’t look down on anyone, but we do have different cultures and different ways of looking at things.

Ayaan was a muslim and had FGM done to her...

Your choice of words say a lot about your outlook on life.

You think she's special because she had FGM? It's so common there and it's an abhorrent act but she's lucky she escaped. Imagine all the other girls it's happening to. It's thankfully lessened over the years but some villages still do it.

 

[Haich]

How many times do people have to tell you that's not true?

She doesn't care. She thinks she knows more than us

 

[Lisa]

You're correct, I don't think good of you at all. It's a shame that someone of your age doesn't show much tolerance and kindness to others of different backgrounds. It's sad because you've had a lifetime to meet Muslims and try to find some common ground but you've clearly never interacted with them at length, hence your fierce and stubborn judgement of them. You are free to disagree with Islam but your attitude is intolerant and islamaphobic.

Your beliefs are cancerous and really don't allow for a cohesive and communal society to exist. You remind me of the Trump followers blaming Muslims and Mexicans for their problems. I hope you change your attitude towards others, bitterness will only destroy you.

No she never practiced, she was never into Islam and it's because her cultural limitations didn't allow her to question scripture. This is wrong and everyone has the write to critique their faith, it's what makes you grow as a believer.

Guesswork, all of it...

You don’t know my age and I haven’t told my age...
You don’t know who I’ve met in my lifetime and how I’ve interacted with them....
You don’t know if indeed I have met many muslims. I told you about my neighbor and you dismissed it as anecdotal.

How am I intolerant here? I’m talking to you, answering your questions and am respectful in my answers. I don’t put you down in what you think or say in my disagreeing with you, however, you can’t say the same thing. So, I would say I am more tolerant of you than you are to me. Where you attack me for thinking the thoughts I think. And why do I think those things..terrorizing, killing, raping muslims who keep their women in cloth prisons. Change those things, and I would think better of islam.

I’m not bitter or hateful, just telling it like I see it.

Well, she said she did....