Important Message To Forum Members

[Red Sky at Morning]

He didn't say that it didn't happen

I'll leave you to it.

 

[rainerann]

Very thought provoking.

So we're in agreement that the holocaust occurred, but the argument you're bringing forward is one I haven't come across before.

It does make sense, by making it seem like the one single event in history to cause such devastation, it has not only allowed the creation of Israel (and the displacement of Palestinians) but it kind of allows Israel to get away with what it wants. Anyone who criticises Israel is labelled an anti semite which is quite ridiculous; the state of Israel and the Jewish faith are too entirely different things.

You can have a Jew that supports Israel but critiquing Israel isn't anti-Semitic. If you criticise Judaism, you're labelled anti semitic, however, I don't believe it should be a protected faith, people criticise Islam and Christianity on a daily basis yet Judaism is never in the midst of a debate. Either all religions should be protected, or none. In a secular society I do welcome the freedom to critique a faith but it shouldn't be an excuse to use derogatory language. Unfortunately, people don't possess the linguistic capabilities to form a cohesive and transparent argument. Word choice is key, we all know what words cause offence and as long as we stand within the perimeters of deemable language, there's no reason why we can't have a healthy discussion about faith.

Of course discriminatory remarks against Judaism is anti-Semitic however inflammatory remarks are made about Islam and other faiths all the time, yet no one bats an eyelid. God forbid you even an utter a word about Judaism, you're leapt on like a leech and called an anti-Semitic.

Personally, I believe many people are anti-Zionist and anti-Israel due to the way Israel acquired 'their land'. Also, their actions since acquiring the land have been diabolical and we can't really sit here and ignore that. They've pretty much decimated the Palestinian region and the Zionist loving BBC, along with other news outlets, will never report the extent of the true damage they have done.

There used to be a blog that researched old newspapers on the subject. Unfortunately, it is not set to private although you can still do a basic search that will show you how the number 6 million was used to describe everything from the number of Jews in bread lines to the number of Jews, to the number of Jews in peril. It was used over and over and over again in the newspaper in the beginning of the century. It is more than a little coincidental that the number is used so many, many times to describe the Jews.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=six+million+jews+newspaper&FORM=HDRSC2

In reality, there is a lot more than the 6 million figure that makes propaganda regarding the holocaust suspect. Not that the holocaust didn't happen of course. It is just that there is obviously a lot of propaganda regarding it that can be seen from even a basic search of old newspaper images.

 

[Antipapirus]

Very thought provoking.

So we're in agreement that the holocaust occurred, but the argument you're bringing forward is one I haven't come across before.

It does make sense, by making it seem like the one single event in history to cause such devastation, it has not only allowed the creation of Israel (and the displacement of Palestinians) but it kind of allows Israel to get away with what it wants. Anyone who criticises Israel is labelled an anti semite which is quite ridiculous; the state of Israel and the Jewish faith are too entirely different things.

You can have a Jew that supports Israel but critiquing Israel isn't anti-Semitic. If you criticise Judaism, you're labelled anti semitic, however, I don't believe it should be a protected faith, people criticise Islam and Christianity on a daily basis yet Judaism is never in the midst of a debate. Either all religions should be protected, or none. In a secular society I do welcome the freedom to critique a faith but it shouldn't be an excuse to use derogatory language. Unfortunately, people don't possess the linguistic capabilities to form a cohesive and transparent argument. Word choice is key, we all know what words cause offence and as long as we stand within the perimeters of deemable language, there's no reason why we can't have a healthy discussion about faith.

Of course discriminatory remarks against Judaism is anti-Semitic however inflammatory remarks are made about Islam and other faiths all the time, yet no one bats an eyelid. God forbid you even an utter a word about Judaism, you're leapt on like a leech and called an anti-Semitic.

Personally, I believe many people are anti-Zionist and anti-Israel due to the way Israel acquired 'their land'. Also, their actions since acquiring the land have been diabolical and we can't really sit here and ignore that. They've pretty much decimated the Palestinian region and the Zionist loving BBC, along with other news outlets, will never report the extent of the true damage they have done.

Your linguistic skills are formidable and im glad you get me , i agree 100% with all you said here.
I was in Hevron 2 years and 1 year in Ramala and i must say that i witnesed what this guy says in the video - it starts at 7:00 min

and this person

There is a systematic distruction of the palestine people and were all too brainwashed to see.
Our security aparatus is controlling Hamas at its highest levels[ the wast majority of the group has no clue ] and they can launch a "terror" atack or simply make one themselfes and keep the fear and hate going .
The israel population is under a sofisticated mind control that goes so deep it will take a huge shock to wake us up.
I woke up on this subject only 5 years after i was already bombarded with mind chalenging information and even then, it took me 6 months to get rid of my alter persona which was trigered every time i read something on this subject .
I was never into religion but i was a hard right wing sotziopat.
Those who are deep into religion are the ones i believe will not awake even if you showed them all the hard proof in the world.
The goal of the force that controls Israel is this:

And this video says it best

The question each of us in Israel that awakenes asks himself is : " Am i part of humanity? or a part of the group that highjacked the jewish fate and people and works to destroy humanity? "
I cannot express these ideas on a israeli social platform because i will trigger them and it doesnt end well.
I have hope this will end verry soon.

 

[Antipapirus]

My grandfather went to some Eastern European camps after ww2.

It happened.

May you never come to see the things he described.

I never said it didnt happend... it did happen ... horrific things .... that was not the point... try reading again

 

[Haich]

There used to be a blog that researched old newspapers on the subject. Unfortunately, it is not set to private although you can still do a basic search that will show you how the number 6 million was used to describe everything from the number of Jews in bread lines to the number of Jews, to the number of Jews in peril. It was used over and over and over again in the newspaper in the beginning of the century. It is more than a little coincidental that the number is used so many, many times to describe the Jews.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=six+million+jews+newspaper&FORM=HDRSC2

In reality, there is a lot more than the 6 million figure that makes propaganda regarding the holocaust suspect. Not that the holocaust didn't happen of course. It is just that there is obviously a lot of propaganda regarding it that can be seen from even a basic search of old newspaper images.

There clearly is/was propaganda regarding the numbers.

I never really questioned it all, it was frowned upon to even really ask questions about the number of victims and the way it was all documented. I do believe it's a taboo subject, quite sensitive in nature however, there have been other atrocities in the world which deserve the same attention and regard.

The rawandan genocide in 1994 claimed around a million people for instance and isn't spoken about in the media or referenced. History is biased in nature and in Europe, European history holds precedence. We weren't taught much about anything other than Henry the 8th!

Many atrocities have occurred over years,
http://www.listzomania.com/10-worst-genocides-in-history

It's important to acknowledge them all

 

[Antipapirus]

There used to be a blog that researched old newspapers on the subject. Unfortunately, it is not set to private although you can still do a basic search that will show you how the number 6 million was used to describe everything from the number of Jews in bread lines to the number of Jews, to the number of Jews in peril. It was used over and over and over again in the newspaper in the beginning of the century. It is more than a little coincidental that the number is used so many, many times to describe the Jews.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=six+million+jews+newspaper&FORM=HDRSC2


In reality, there is a lot more than the 6 million figure that makes propaganda regarding the holocaust suspect. Not that the holocaust didn't happen of course. It is just that there is obviously a lot of propaganda regarding it that can be seen from even a basic search of old newspaper images.

Thats my point ... The holocaust did happen but it was greatly inflated to serve a purpose....
About the papers, the 6 million figure was mentioned 140 times from 1900 to 1940

 

[Haich]

This may be far fetched and is only my opinion, but at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I do believe media outlets are governed predominantly by Israeli supporters (zionists?) so the propagation of facts with regards to the Holocaust may be skewed; it happened no doubt and many innocents lost their lives...but this atrocious incident has been used to legitimise the state of Israel.

This is why Netanyahu is never condemned for his actions or words. He's the face of many who are fighting to keep Israel alive at the expense of Palestinians.

God bless you Antipapirus, it's a pleasure to read your posts, especially since you live at the source of all this conflict.

 

[JoChris]

Keep in mind that I was a jew, I quit after I found out the base of my religion is worshiping the devil - LOL -
If you would tell me 2 years ago the things I'm telling you now I would go nuts and beat you up.
Keep in mind that millions did die, the lie is the gas chambers and the 6 million figure.,and the "fact" that the jews are somewhat the most victimized people in history without any fault.
With hours of carefully captured videos of piles of dead people and horrible conditions backed by media-army-government propaganda, i can make the holocaust seem as if 200 billion people died.

I believe you that you are of a Jewish background. It does not make any difference objectively what background you have.
Unless you have serious evidence that disproves multiple information sources I cannot take your claims seriously.

 

[Antipapirus]

Unless you have serious evidence that disproves multiple information sources I cannot take your claims seriously.

I see you are asking for SERIOUS EVIDENCE
I'm sorry but serious evidence is almost impossible to get, the powers that govern the western world had made sure to make absolute evidence gathering almost impossible.
If you cant relate to my ideas then let's agree to disagree.
I'm sure we"ll find some common subjects in the future.

 

[JoChris]

I see you are asking for SERIOUS EVIDENCE
I'm sorry but serious evidence is almost impossible to get, the powers that govern the western world had made sure to make absolute evidence gathering almost impossible.
If you cant relate to my ideas then let's agree to disagree.
I'm sure we"ll find some common subjects in the future.

I agree and I will withdraw. I am exceptionally closeminded when there is overwhelming proof for the opposite position.

 

[Antipapirus]

I agree and I will withdraw. I am exceptionally closeminded when there is overwhelming proof for the opposite position.

I understand, believe me, there is nothing more satisfying than having a great debate with hard argument from both sides, but there are topics that it cannot be done in that way.

 

[TruthSucker]

What was this thread about again, anti-israelism?
I mean nothing wrong with discussing pro and cons of israeli behaviour but there already is a thread about it I think.
And some people should be very careful with pointing the finger to only one group of religion, ethnicity or skin colour.
That's how racism starts.

So, back to topic: thanks for your thoughts, Antipapirus. But I don't feel MK-Ultra'd in any way. I think some people just begin to ask questions at a certain time in life, and some people don't.

 

[Antipapirus]

What was this thread about again, anti-israelism?

No it's not my friend, I love Israel and all its people, jews and Muslim and Christians.
The subject of the thread was to introduce my self and open a discussion about how we treat and understand one another.
The Israel subject came up.
The Jewish people are not at fault, they are the greatest victims of this plot

 

[Aero]

I've talked about this some of this type of stuff before. How everyone is an Mk Ultra victim. And what I meant was most people are probably indirect victims. You are forced to live in their mind controlled world, even if you can avoid it all. But I do think that a lot of people's minds are just gone. Like I can't ignore my own feelings, and how I have become desensitized to everything. It's probably one of the main things that makes me question the nature of the universe.

For me it's all very simple. A need to know the truth. To at least have some type of idea what I'm walking into. Like if you have kids, or plan on having them and don't learn this trauma based mind control shit. Than you are ignorant. Plain and simple.

 

[rainerann]

I agree with you @Aero. Mk ultra is a social engineering tool and so everyone is affected by it.

 

[polymoog]

If you cant relate to my ideas then let's agree to disagree.
I'm sure we"ll find some common subjects in the future.

whats this "politeness" thing? ive never heard of it!
<takes notes for self>

 

[Orwell's mentor]

I see you are asking for SERIOUS EVIDENCE
I'm sorry but serious evidence is almost impossible to get, the powers that govern the western world had made sure to make absolute evidence gathering almost impossible.
If you cant relate to my ideas then let's agree to disagree.
I'm sure we"ll find some common subjects in the future.

Reading your posts Antipapirus, you remind me of the modern day Benjamin Freedman. Which leads me to ask, have you ever listened to his speech, or read his letter to Dr. Goldstein?

 

[Devine]

I believe it to be true because I educated my self hard and long and I choose to believe it based on the belief that i can make my own mind and reach conclusions, NOT EVERYTHING HAS TO HAVE TOTAL PROOF IN ORDER TO EXIST

this is so important, what you say.
i used to be very science based in my thinking. until i learned that scientists and studies are bought and sold. and even when they're not, the scientific community seems to change it's mind a LOT. and drastically.
not to mention this world is full of lies and agendas. now i believe the ONLY thing you can rely on is your own INTUITION, paired with LOGIC.

 

[Antipapirus]

Reading your posts Antipapirus, you remind me of the modern day Benjamin Freedman. Which leads me to ask, have you ever listened to his speech, or read his letter to Dr. Goldstein?

No i have not, but im always glad to receive new info, i will check it out.
Me reminding you of "the modern day Benjamin Freedman" is a good or bad thing in your opinion?

 

[Antipapirus]

Reading your posts Antipapirus, you remind me of the modern day Benjamin Freedman. Which leads me to ask, have you ever listened to his speech, or read his letter to Dr. Goldstein?

Wow , im 20 min into it and it has captivated me , thanks , i believe it to be a compliment