Important Message To Forum Members

[JoChris]

When you enter a room with two kids who have been fighting they both give their side of the grievance. One or both of them may be skewing the narrative in their favour. It takes a very wise adult to get to the facts of the matter, and getting the pair to play nicely again is a challenge that only sometimes works out...

My brother-in-law's sister is a lawyer who works with the United Nations' negotating team between Israel and Palestine. From what I remember it sounds the issues will never be resolved. One strikes, the other retaliates. The cycle goes on.

That is why I avoid this topic like the Plague.

 

[rainerann]

"Historians have concluded that soap was not made from human fat. When so many people deny the Holocaust ever happened, why give them something to use against the truth."

I mean sure, it is better to leave the lie being told rather than tell the truth when there are already so many people questioning Holocaust propaganda as it is. Why help their cause of proving that the Holocaust didn't happen the way we are told with evidence with evidence that can effortlessly be produced.

Not to mention that if lampshades were ever really made from human skin the way the article tries to claim in order to salvage the credibility of the outlandish, often ridiculous claims that are made about the Holocaust, this should be a rather obvious thing to have concrete evidence of. Except there is no evidence of the production of lamps made from human skin anywhere. People don't find these lamps randomly at estate sales while traveling throughout Germany. They only exist on display to accuse the Germans of this ridiculous accusation. There are only allegations that this is what the Nazi's were doing made by a handful of Jews who became Holocaust celebrities and controlled most of the propaganda that has been released about this event.

If the story about human fat was a lie, and the story about lampshades made of human skin can't be proven, what else is false about what we are told about the Holocaust?

There are such blatant lies told about the Holocaust by the people that want us to believe it happened the way they said, I cannot understand how anyone takes the mainstream narrative seriously.

Also, it is interesting to see how easily people are offended by suggesting that the Holocaust didn't happen the way some Jews chosen to represent the Holocaust tell us it did, but it is perfectly okay to slander the German people will lies that they were making soap out of human fat and lampshades out of human skin. Perfectly okay to viciously slander the German people in this way even when it can be confirmed that the accusation of the soap was a lie. Oh well, the Germans deserved it for being German for some reason right?

 

[Antipapirus]

An unusual Palestinian perspective...

Psyops - this guy is an Israeli asset or works in their favor
That's true psyops - he speaks so true and profound but then he says Israel is not to blame and totally forgets that all their high-class people [ government - military - religion ] are Israeli agents and the Mosaad controls all their opposition.

 

[Antipapirus]

Hitler invaded other surrounding countries which I assume also had plenty of Jews.

"Historians have concluded that soap was not made from human fat. When so many people deny the Holocaust ever happened, why give them something to use against the truth."

I mean sure, it is better to leave the lie being told rather than tell the truth when there are already so many people questioning Holocaust propaganda as it is. Why help their cause of proving that the Holocaust didn't happen the way we are told with evidence with evidence that can effortlessly be produced.


Not to mention that if lampshades were ever really made from human skin the way the article tries to claim in order to salvage the credibility of the outlandish, often ridiculous claims that are made about the Holocaust, this should be a rather obvious thing to have concrete evidence of. Except there is no evidence of the production of lamps made from human skin anywhere. People don't find these lamps randomly at estate sales while traveling throughout Germany. They only exist on display to accuse the Germans of this ridiculous accusation. There are only allegations that this is what the Nazi's were doing made by a handful of Jews who became Holocaust celebrities and controlled most of the propaganda that has been released about this event.

If the story about human fat was a lie, and the story about lampshades made of human skin can't be proven, what else is false about what we are told about the Holocaust?

There are such blatant lies told about the Holocaust by the people that want us to believe it happened the way they said, I cannot understand how anyone takes the mainstream narrative seriously.

Also, it is interesting to see how easily people are offended by suggesting that the Holocaust didn't happen the way some Jews chosen to represent the Holocaust tell us it did, but it is perfectly okay to slander the German people will lies that they were making soap out of human fat and lampshades out of human skin. Perfectly okay to viciously slander the German people in this way even when it can be confirmed that the accusation of the soap was a lie. Oh well, the Germans deserved it for being German for some reason right?

The Germans before WW1 were the next superpower of the world, if not for those 2 wars Germany would dominate the world today, that's why among many other reasons they were eliminated and their power was taken through quilt and oppression of their collective will.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Most people identify speakers of truth and disinformation agents out of a wider narrative they believe. This "big picture" fills a persons vision as far as the eye can see and explains and interprets all the landscape in between.

It takes something major in the life or belief system of an individual to "move location" and very often see quite a different angle on the terrain.

 

[Antipapirus]

"Historians have concluded that soap was not made from human fat. When so many people deny the Holocaust ever happened, why give them something to use against the truth."

I mean sure, it is better to leave the lie being told rather than tell the truth when there are already so many people questioning Holocaust propaganda as it is. Why help their cause of proving that the Holocaust didn't happen the way we are told with evidence with evidence that can effortlessly be produced.

Not to mention that if lampshades were ever really made from human skin the way the article tries to claim in order to salvage the credibility of the outlandish, often ridiculous claims that are made about the Holocaust, this should be a rather obvious thing to have concrete evidence of. Except there is no evidence of the production of lamps made from human skin anywhere. People don't find these lamps randomly at estate sales while traveling throughout Germany. They only exist on display to accuse the Germans of this ridiculous accusation. There are only allegations that this is what the Nazi's were doing made by a handful of Jews who became Holocaust celebrities and controlled most of the propaganda that has been released about this event.

If the story about human fat was a lie, and the story about lampshades made of human skin can't be proven, what else is false about what we are told about the Holocaust?

There are such blatant lies told about the Holocaust by the people that want us to believe it happened the way they said, I cannot understand how anyone takes the mainstream narrative seriously.

Also, it is interesting to see how easily people are offended by suggesting that the Holocaust didn't happen the way some Jews chosen to represent the Holocaust tell us it did, but it is perfectly okay to slander the German people will lies that they were making soap out of human fat and lampshades out of human skin. Perfectly okay to viciously slander the German people in this way even when it can be confirmed that the accusation of the soap was a lie. Oh well, the Germans deserved it for being German for some reason right?

The great lie of the Holocaust is that the suffering of the Jewish people eclipsed all another suffering of all other groups, and to do that they had to shock the bejesus out of us.
To do that they took several steps:
Before the Gas Chamber narrative was invented, after the world ended, the Russians started spreading stories that german soldiers threw massive amounts of Jewish babies into great fires, that they cut the hands of little children for trophies.
Almost all of the great holocaust survivors stories [ including Ana Frank ] were totally fabricated or greatly exaggerated - each year on the holocaust day I sat and watched hundreds of films and documentaries with unreliable stories that depict magical being - the jew - that overcomes all laws of psychics and common sense and the evil Germans - don't get confused - those that blindly followed Hitler were evil and did horrifying things.

The main point is this :
The Jewish people did suffer during WW2, but to compare their actual suffering to the Holocaust lie suffering is like comparing an ant to an elephant.
The Jewish suffering in Germany was totally justified, the low-class Jews in Germany supported blindly their elite which did unspeakable damage to the German people during WW1 and the Weimar Republic era.
Since WW1 until today there were so many mass killings and genocides that far outweighs the real Jewish suffering. far outweigh

 

[Karlysymon]

When you enter a room with two kids who have been fighting they both give their side of the grievance. One or both of them may be skewing the narrative in their favour. It takes a very wise adult to get to the facts of the matter, and getting the pair to play nicely again is a challenge that only sometimes works out...

Both sides have saints and villains and as the guy in the vid you put up said, that Hamas doesn't represent Palestinian interests, iam sure there are Israelis who aren't happy about Bibi, Ayelet & Co.
Its has been mentioned quite abit here (Serveto linked to a WaPo article in a thread i can't remember) that Hamas was concieved, if not, nurtured by Israel. This 'fight' has gone on for way too long and iam weary. Its been 60+yrs, how is a peaceful solution impossible yet both sides claim they want peace? The other matter is: a conflict is very often prolonged when there are entities that stand to benefit from the chaos. So, its either that or Israeli and Palestinian leaders simply don't want peace.

Hitler invaded other
surrounding countries
which I assume also had
plenty of Jews.

Yes, that is true. But you have to keep in mind that the Jewish community is pretty close knit, so most of them pulled together atleast and left the continent. Clearly, you weren't going to hang around with the Wehrmacht rolling into Poland and Czechoslovakia. Secondly, going by the newspaper articles, there were only 1.5 million jews left in Europe of the original total of 6million. Yet 6million were supposedly murdered. Also, if 6million jews were murdered, then we have to assume there was another 1-4million gentiles, which would bring the total to around 9 or 10million who died in the holocaust. Antipapirus claimed it wasn't possible to execute that many people during war time but do those numbers matter to the rest of the world? All one ever hears is 6million jews as though they were the only people killed.

Also, it is interesting to see
how easily people are offended by suggesting
that the Holocaust didn't
happen the way some Jews chosen to represent the Holocaust tell us it did,
but it is perfectly okay to
slander the German people
with lies that they were
making soap out of human
fat and lampshades out of human skin. Perfectly okay to viciously slander the
German people in this way even when it can be
confirmed that the accusation of the soap was a lie. Oh well, the Germans deserved it for being German for some reason
right?

The holocaust propaganda machine is holding the world and Germany, especially, hostage. They pay reparations and pass ridiculous laws about holocaust denialism, even more, Germany remains occupied territory to this day, not Iraq-type occupation but occupation nevertheless.
We can't afford another 'final solution', i guess.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I was just doing a bit of digging and unearthed some interesting "big picture" information that might be helpful in understanding some of the perspectives given voice in this thread...

Supersessionism

Supersessionism, also called replacement theology or fulfillment theology, is a Christian doctrine which has parallels in Islam.

In Christianity, supersessionism is a theological view on the current status of the church in relation to the Jewish people and Judaism. It holds that the Christian Church has succeeded the Israelites as the definitive people of God or that the New Covenant has replaced or superseded the Mosaic covenant. From a supersessionist's "point of view, just by continuing to exist [outside the Church], the Jews dissent". This view directly contrasts with dual-covenant theology which holds that the Mosaic covenant remains valid for Jews.

Supersessionism has formed a core tenet of the Church for the majority of its existence. Subsequent to and because of the Holocaust, some mainstream Christian theologians and denominations have rejected supersessionism.

The Islamic tradition views Islam as the final and most authentic expression of Abrahamic prophetic monotheism, superseding both Jewish and Christian teachings. The doctrine of tahrif teaches that earlier monotheistic scriptures or their interpretations have been corrupted, while the Quran presents a pure version of the divine message that they originally contained.

Source

So at least three views set out here, but I think more, with more nuanced tones set out in these comments...

 

[rainerann]

I was just doing a bit of digging and unearthed some interesting "big picture" information that might be helpful in understanding some of the perspectives given voice in this thread...

Supersessionism

Supersessionism, also called replacement theology or fulfillment theology, is a Christian doctrine which has parallels in Islam.

In Christianity, supersessionism is a theological view on the current status of the church in relation to the Jewish people and Judaism. It holds that the Christian Church has succeeded the Israelites as the definitive people of God or that the New Covenant has replaced or superseded the Mosaic covenant. From a supersessionist's "point of view, just by continuing to exist [outside the Church], the Jews dissent". This view directly contrasts with dual-covenant theology which holds that the Mosaic covenant remains valid for Jews.

Supersessionism has formed a core tenet of the Church for the majority of its existence. Subsequent to and because of the Holocaust, some mainstream Christian theologians and denominations have rejected supersessionism.

The Islamic tradition views Islam as the final and most authentic expression of Abrahamic prophetic monotheism, superseding both Jewish and Christian teachings. The doctrine of tahrif teaches that earlier monotheistic scriptures or their interpretations have been corrupted, while the Quran presents a pure version of the divine message that they originally contained.

Source

So at least three views set out here, but I think more, with more nuanced tones set out in these comments...

You think this is represented in the comments? That is an absolutely ridiculous conclusion. You think by not accepting outlandish claims made about the Holocaust, the demonstrates supersessionism?

For starters, the threat of replacement theology is only a way for the Jews to bully the church into recognizing they are still superior without Christ.

Then, supersessionism is just a way of making it seem that believing that the New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant is a false teaching.

Both would then be antichrist labels of the church, but let's try to use them to defend the Holocaust narrative instead.

Not to mention that the Jewish community that opposes Zionism has defined a clear position on all subject regarding Zionism including the Holocaust that I support. Therefore, none of my comments stem from some label of false teaching within the Christian community like you are passively suggesting.

Maybe it would be good to step outside the bubble and listen to what the Jews who oppose Zionism have to say instead of believing the propaganda released by Zionists to support a fairytale narrative of how the prophecy will be fulfilled based on imagination.

An article opposing Yom HaShoah, which is the Holocaust remembrance day in Israel by True Torah Jews. http://www.truetorahjews.org/yom-hashoah-“israel”-art-fabrication

True Torah Jews is a fantastic resource for any Christian studying the subject of Zionism. Their understanding of the spirit of the Old Testament is superior to most every Christian church I have ever attended. They are the ones who deserve support from the Christian community. They are a true remnant.

Zionists and Nazis Worked Together to Sow the Seeds of Anti-Semitism in Germany by True Torah Jews

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@rainerann - tbh I was not accusing anyone of replacement theology, (I was simply trying to set out what that meant according to Wikipedia) which is why I concluded that the opinions expressed here were more nuanced than that...

I was also interested in the relationship of supersessionism to Islam as I had not come across that perspective. Sorry to have got you so annoyed...

 

[Karlysymon]

@rainerann - tbh I was not accusing anyone of replacement theology, (I was simply trying to set out what that meant according to Wikipedia) which is why I concluded that the opinions expressed here were more nuanced than that...

I was also interested in the relationship of supersessionism to Islam as I had not come across that perspective. Sorry to have got you so annoyed...

Red

i really have nothing to gain or lose if Israelis hold some special significance. God loves me with an unrelenting love and died for me, thats more than enough. Iam not better than them neither are they better than me. We are all worth the same before God. On the other hand, they have alot more to lose (38 billion aid package) if they don't push the 'God's people/Abraham's descendants' narrative. So it makes more sense for them to push it.

Why, i ask you, isn't the same package granted to Mongolia or Angola or Tuvalu? Sure those countries need it way more than Israel. Is it simply a case of powerful lobby groups that Tuvalu can't afford? And, if they weren't 'God's special people', would the US spend that much money on them? Guess not, seeing as the inhabitants of Tuvalu aren't.