Christian viewpoints and "supporting israel"

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Ishmael and Issac were both sons of Abraham. Is it your contention that God preserved the line of Ishmael and failed to preserve the line of Issac and Jacob?
Due to interbreeding, the remaining line of Jacob (those who survived the war that led to the destruction of the temple because they fled to the mountains as Jesus had warned them) mixed with the line of Ishmael (and the lines of Abraham's six other sons with his new wife after Sarah died, and Esau).

But the ashkenazis are a long way away from the line of Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob, seeing as they are not even Shemites, but Japhethites.

I'll include a visual aid for anyone who has no idea what im going on about.

See Japheth in the top left there. Ashkenaz (not shown) was the son of Gomer.

Genesis 10
2The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. 3And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.

There was also some interbreeding between Ham and Shem decendants not shown, i'll see if i can find a better family tree.

Screenshot_20231211-202955.jpg


So, what IS a "Jew"?

If being from the line of Abraham through Jacob (or even through his son Judah, if we want to get more specific) is not required, and if following the faith of Abraham is not required, then WHAT?
 
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the modern jews are the camp that was 'cut off' post 70AD. The ashkenazis were the jews who mixed in with khazarian blood.
they def are jewish though...it's just that they have that Gomer blood in them.
Are you saying that some descendants of Abraham who remained Jews survived and fled to eastern europe?
And there they mixed with the ashkenazis?
How are you defining "jewish"?
 
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If this is in response to my image, it's satire Toxic.

View attachment 98184

I mean, take a look at Red. He is absolutely convinced that the Bible commands him to worship Israel.

Thankfully there are some Christians here like you that are not brainwashed and blinded, but sadly many are. For example E-bot.
Ok... as long as it doesnt turn into Bible-bashing.
 
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Good points!

Screenshot_20231211-202217.jpg


Full text:
Ok so the Jews are claiming that the woman on the left is the one who’s actually native to the middle eastern desert region called Palestine, but the women on the right are just remnants of the Ottoman Empire with no genetic lineage to the region. The woman on the left is pro abortion, pro gay marriage, pro trans, open borders, feminist, anti patriarchy, but believes Israel was given to her by the God of the Torah that she doesn’t think is real who said that sodomy was a death penalty and women were the property of their husbands. Ashkanazi Jews appear to be from Ukraine mixed with a little Russian with a very narrow family tree if ya catch my meaning. So now, these walking paradoxes are bombing the civilians of Palestine that have actually been there for thousands of years because they came in 1948 to reclaim their desert homeland given to them by god despite not believing in god and being super duper pale. What I just stated is obviously insane and exactly what they claim. Why does it take a comedian to clearly lay this out to you? What the hell are your church leaders and governments doing? This is the dumbest thing in human history.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Good points!

View attachment 98194


Full text:
Ok so the Jews are claiming that the woman on the left is the one who’s actually native to the middle eastern desert region called Palestine, but the women on the right are just remnants of the Ottoman Empire with no genetic lineage to the region. The woman on the left is pro abortion, pro gay marriage, pro trans, open borders, feminist, anti patriarchy, but believes Israel was given to her by the God of the Torah that she doesn’t think is real who said that sodomy was a death penalty and women were the property of their husbands. Ashkanazi Jews appear to be from Ukraine mixed with a little Russian with a very narrow family tree if ya catch my meaning. So now, these walking paradoxes are bombing the civilians of Palestine that have actually been there for thousands of years because they came in 1948 to reclaim their desert homeland given to them by god despite not believing in god and being super duper pale. What I just stated is obviously insane and exactly what they claim. Why does it take a comedian to clearly lay this out to you? What the hell are your church leaders and governments doing? This is the dumbest thing in human history.
Did King David have red hair?

 

Red Sky at Morning

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As for the genetic studies, you have got to love the Internet as people tend to cross-check claims…

———-

“Eran Elhaik's study proves the opposite…

First of all, it should be noted that Dr. Eran Elhaik never really claims that ALL (or even MOST) European Jews are descendants of converted Khazars - Yet alone "proved it". His only claim is that the Khazar Empire was a transition point were Jews from all kinds of places (including Judea, Byzantine Empire, Iraq, Persia, and even Rome) met, mixed a bit with each other and with local Khazar population, and then continued to East and Central Europe - As on can see in his Fig 1:


Here are the real conclusions of this study - with a link too it:

"We conclude that the genome of European Jews is a tapestry of ancient populations including Judaized Khazars, Greco–Roman Jews, Mesopotamian Jews, and Judeans and that their population structure was formed in the Caucasus and the banks of the Volga with roots stretching to Canaan and the banks of the Jordan."


It's true that he does claim at some point that: "The Near Eastern–Caucasus ancestries are dominant among Central (38%) and Eastern (32%) European Jews followed by Western European ancestry (30%)"; And also that: "Although the Rhineland hypothesis explains the Middle Eastern ancestry by stating that Jews migrated from Palestine to Europe in the 7th century, it fails to explain the large Caucasus ancestry, which is nearly endemic to Caucasus populations"...

However, a quick look at his Fig 5 reviles that other Middle Eastern populations, like the Cypriots, Syrians and the Lebanese, got almost the same amount of "Caucasus ancestry" (~15% - 25%) and a much-much higher amount of "Near-Eastern ancestry" (that would probably be Turkic ancestry - which would make them closer to Khazars than the Ashkenazi Jews), and even some amount of "Western European ancestry" (10%-20%) - which altogether means that Askenazi Jews got most of their "Caucasus ancestry" and a bit of their "Western European ancestry" in their ancient homeland in the Middle East...

Here you can see it all, in his Fig 5:



Now, the thing I like most about Eran Elhaik's study is the part were he tries to determine the "biogeographical origin coordinates" (i.e. where in the world thy most fit genetically today) of Eastern European and Central European Ashkenazi Jews by comparing their DNA to DNA of other populations who live today in different places of the world...

To make a long story short, he comes up with all kinds of coordinates in the northern parts of the Middle East - not even close to Europe... For example: The smallest deviations in the geographical coordinates were obtained with Armenians for both Eastern (38 ± 2.7° N, 39.9 ± 0.4° E) and Central (35 ± 5° N, 39.7 ± 1.1° E) European Jews... Now try running those coordinates on Google Maps, and you'll find that the biogeographical centers of Eatern (38° N, 39.9° E) and Central (35° N, 39.7° E) European Jews, are just a bit to the north and a bit to the south of the line between Ur-Kashdim and Harran - which are mentioned in the Bible as the original homeland of Abraham:

IMG_4553.jpeg

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=200194895895720439502.0004dcc0c441bff010f2b

So, according to Elhaik's study, the "biogeographical origin" of Ashkenazi Jews is from the same area that the Bible says Abraham came from - Funny, isn't it?”
 
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phipps

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Good points!

View attachment 98194


Full text:
Ok so the Jews are claiming that the woman on the left is the one who’s actually native to the middle eastern desert region called Palestine, but the women on the right are just remnants of the Ottoman Empire with no genetic lineage to the region. The woman on the left is pro abortion, pro gay marriage, pro trans, open borders, feminist, anti patriarchy, but believes Israel was given to her by the God of the Torah that she doesn’t think is real who said that sodomy was a death penalty and women were the property of their husbands. Ashkanazi Jews appear to be from Ukraine mixed with a little Russian with a very narrow family tree if ya catch my meaning. So now, these walking paradoxes are bombing the civilians of Palestine that have actually been there for thousands of years because they came in 1948 to reclaim their desert homeland given to them by god despite not believing in god and being super duper pale. What I just stated is obviously insane and exactly what they claim. Why does it take a comedian to clearly lay this out to you? What the hell are your church leaders and governments doing? This is the dumbest thing in human history.
To be fair Esau was red haired, "And the first came out red. He was like a hairy garment all over; so they called his name Esau" (Genesis 25:25). I get the gist of your point though and I agree.

In terms of who is more entitled to that land based on DNA, its the Palestinians not the Jews who came back after being scattered and married people from other nations for centuries.

Thankfully it doesn't matter how much of Abraham's DNA one has to inherit the Kingdom of God. Its this Kingdom which Jesus said is not of this world that we should be striving to inherit and live in eternally, "And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him" (Daniel 7:27).

How do we get to this God's Kingdom? By accepting Christ as our personal Saviour from sin. Its all about faith.
 
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fotw

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Just to be clear about what the Bible says if I'm not mistaken. I did read the Bible and have studied it a bit using different versions in more than one language. If I'm wrong in anything please show me where it says so in the Bible.

Semites are the descendants of Noah and Shem.

Israelites are the descendants of Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Israelites are in fact Semites because they are descendants of Shem.

Jacob is who God named Israel. God made a Covenant with Jacob and his descendants. This is why the descendants of Jacob are called Israelites. In order for the Israelites to continue to be blessed and maintain their right to the Promised Land they had to continue to obey God in all of his Covenant. The Israelites did not end up keeping the Covenant and were allowed by God to be defeated by their enemies. This is why the Israelites lost their right to the Promised Land and were kicked out a long time ago.

Ashkenazis are the descendants of Noah, Japheth, Gomer and Ashkenaz. So Ashkenazis are not Semitic Israelites, they are Japhethites.

So how can Ashkenazis be Semitic Israelites? I cannot see how this could be possible unless they intermarried. And even if Israelis are somehow Israelites, the Israeli Government does not keep the Covenant that God made with Jacob. Religious Israelis follow a form of Judaisim that is not the same as the Covenant that God made with Jacob as written in the Bible.

I think it's safe to say that by now most people are of mixed race anyway, and the entire argument that Israelis are somehow Israelites is an error or a lie.

Either way, unless the Israeli Goverment does an about face, stops murdering it's neighbors in cold blood, treats them like God says they should be treated, condemns sodomy etc, in other words starts to keep the Covenant that God made with Jacob and his descendants, the Israeli Goverment is going to lose the Promised Land just like everyone else who claimed it in the past. To keep the Promised Land you must keep the Covenant made with Jacob and his descendants, there is no other way according to God and his Bible.

According to the Bible, the Israeli Goverment and those who support it do not appear to be God's chosen right about now. As Christ said, ye shall know them by their fruits. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
 
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Did King David have red hair?

I've read the description of David as "ruddy" to mean he had ruddy, sun tanned skin, from being a shepherd

1 Samuel 16
12And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the LORD said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he

Seems others think this is what it's referring to also


Ruddy, in this instance, refers to David's complexion. The word means having a healthy reddish colour usually from leading an outdoor life.
David was a shepherd and so his complexion had a healthy, weather-beaten look. Some Bible translations say his skin was dark.

Ruddy does not necessarily mean that David had red hair, or that he was prone to blushing.



Was there a possibility David, like Esau, had red hair? Yes. But if so it was an exception, not the rule.
From the same link:
The hair of the ancient Hebrews was generally black (comp. Cant. iv. 1, v. 11). In Eccl. xi. 10 black hair is designated as a sign of youth in contrast with the white hair of age. Josephus narrates ("Ant." xvi. 8, § 1) that Herod dyed his gray hair black in order to appear younger. Black hair was in any case considered beautiful, black being the general color, while light or blond hair was exceptional. David is designated as "admoni" = "ruddy" (I Sam. xvi. 12, xvii. 42), this expression being also applied to Esau's hair (Gen. xxv. 25). The Hebrews had thick hair (Ezek. viii. 3). Long, heavy hair was considered as a sign of vitality. In the case of Samson, traced back to religious reasons (he having been dedicated to God), the connection of long hair and bodily strength was based on the current views. Absalom's famous hair (II Sam. xiv. 25 et seq.) was considered not only as an ornament, but as a token of strength. A bald head, therefore, was an object of mockery (II Kings ii. 23; comp. Isa. iii. 17, 24).
https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/7061-hair#anchor8 show the prevalence of red hair among Jewish populations.

in Caucasia, where the natives are dark, the Jews show 96 per cent of dark hair. The proportion of red hair is also quite high, reaching 4 per cent in some observations. This has been considered characteristic of the Jews by some anthropologists. It appears to be not of recent origin, and was not unknown among the ancient Hebrews (Esau was "red, all over like a hairy garment"; Gen. xxv. 25).
The consensus among anthropologists seems to be that by far black hair was the dominant trait. Red-haired Israelites were possible exceptions.
 
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As for the genetic studies, you have got to love the Internet as people tend to cross-check claims...
I am unsure if you are saying that the author of the article misrepresented the results, or if you're saying i did...


Here are the real conclusions of this study - with a link too it:

"We conclude that the genome of European Jews is a tapestry of ancient populations including Judaized Khazars, Greco–Roman Jews, Mesopotamian Jews, and Judeans and that their population structure was formed in the Caucasus and the banks of the Volga with roots stretching to Canaan and the banks of the Jordan."
Yes, but how are those "judaized khazars" synonymous with the descendants of Abraham?

That would imply that modern israel is the home of those who practice the Jewish faith, regardless of origin.
BUT, as the leading sodomite capital of the world, it is clear that many/most? are secular (to put it mildly).

So, again, not necessarily descended from Abraham, not following the Torah, so what is a "Jew"?

that Askenazi Jews got most of their "Caucasus ancestry" and a bit of their "Western European ancestry" in their ancient homeland in the Middle East...

Now, the thing I like most about Eran Elhaik's study is the part were he tries to determine the "biogeographical origin coordinates" (i.e. where in the world thy most fit genetically today) of Eastern European and Central European Ashkenazi Jews by comparing their DNA to DNA of other populations who live today in different places of the world...

To make a long story short, he comes up with all kinds of coordinates in the northern parts of the Middle East - not even close to Europe... For example: The smallest deviations in the geographical coordinates were obtained with Armenians for both Eastern (38 ± 2.7° N, 39.9 ± 0.4° E) and Central (35 ± 5° N, 39.7 ± 1.1° E) European Jews... Now try running those coordinates on Google Maps, and you'll find that the biogeographical centers of Eatern (38° N, 39.9° E) and Central (35° N, 39.7° E) European Jews, are just a bit to the north and a bit to the south of the line between Ur-Kashdim and Harran - which are mentioned in the Bible as the original homeland of Abraham:

So, according to Elhaik's study, the "biogeographical origin" of Ashkenazi Jews is from the same area that the Bible says Abraham came from - Funny, isn't it?”
So Abraham's ancestors were what today would be called caucasian?

I did realize that Abraham did not exist in a vacuum, and his ancestors whom he left when ordered to by God would also have descendants. Also, the fact that Sarah is so remarkable to the egyptians, despite her advanced age, could indicate that there was something different about her. I've heard some pastors claim this difference was that she had white skin.


However, the Bible tells us that Abraham left those people, and with the exception of seeking a wife for Isaac from among his wife's people, and subsequently Jacob's two wives, there is no indication that the bloodlines of Abraham's ancestors and Abraham's descendants continued to mix. Or should be counted as one and the same. God didn't make any promises to Abraham's ancestors...


While Jacob's wives were of his people, we are not told what ethnicicy/nationality/race the two handmaids are, so already at the time of the sons of Israel we have mixing. This mixing continues throughout biblical times (and post biblical times, but the Bible does not tell us about it), as evidenced by Rahab, or Ruth, not to mention Joseph's egyptian wife.

So, while this is an intersting rabbit hole, it does not provide any legitimacy to the modern country of israel, in my opinion.
 
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A different Christian viewpoint, with a historicism viewpoint

(I'm not saying i agree with everything he says on his site, such as Revelation being written pre-temple destrustion, just showing that there is a variety of Christian viewpoints that are not zionist)


Therefore, by the time Jesus was born, only the Kingdom of Judah had survived and retained a contiguous territory with a King named Herod, even though Judah or Judea was part of the Roman Empire’s geographically designated federation known as Palestine, which included various adjoining territories or provinces (see Map below – provinces in red letters).

The Kingdom of Israel was long gone.

...

Judahite Hebrews living abroad (including Israelites who assimilated themselves as Judahites) made the trip every year to Jerusalem, Judah for the feast of unleavened bread, which took place right after Passover.

“Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Judahites from every nation under heaven.” Acts 2: 5

However, in AD 70, as the entire Hebrew nation came up from all the country and the world to Jerusalem to the feast, God dispatched the Roman army to flatten Jerusalem and the Temple, and to destroy all the unbelieving Hebrews who had rejected and killed the Messiah. A disaster that is known as the Apocalypse, the Tribulation, the Armageddon, the End of the Age of the Judahite Hebrews and of the Hebrew remnants of Israel who grouped under the Judahite flag.

...

The reason God eliminated the entire Hebrew race was because His gifts and calling are irrevocable (Romans 11: 28-31). So, He had to irrevocably kill all the remaining non-Christian Hebrews, otherwise he would have had to keep the Old Covenant alive, and thereby undercut and undermine His Son’s New Covenant.

“By calling this covenant new, he has made the first one obsolete and what is obsolete is outdated.” Hebrews 8:13

“And I will silence in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem the voice of mirth and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, for the land shall become a waste.” Jeremiah 7:34

“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!” Matthew 23:38

“From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up…” Daniel 12:11

Thus, from the time of Christ’s crucifixion in AD 30 to AD 70, God gave the disobedient Hebrews 40 years to repent and accept Jesus as the Messiah.

“The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.” 2 Peter 3:9

And just like during their ancestors’ 40-year wilderness wandering, God was not about to lead the unbelieving Hebrews into the promised land of the New Covenant. They all had to die so He could start anew.

...
However, the Christian Hebrews who escaped those infernal LAST DAYS of the Old Covenant did not have the mark of the beast, and embodied “all Israel shall be saved”‘ of Romans 11:26. Their symbolic number in Revelation is 144,000 (12 tribes squared/Father & Son x 1000/many or 12² x 1000). Those with the mark of the beast were annihilated.

In other words, there are NO LOST TRIBES of Israel roaming about. They’re all dead. Besides, if they’re lost, why don’t they pick up a cell phone and call someone. After all, this is the 21st century

...
Judah was repopulated after AD 70 by Middle Easterners from the Roman Empire, including many returning Hebrew Christians who in time intermarried with other Christian Semites such as the Chaldeans, Assyrians, Aramaics, Arabs, Phoenicians, and Syriacs, who are all known today under the cultural appellation of Christian Arabs. Hence, these returning Hebrews can no longer be considered pure-bred.

They and their Arab neighbors in the rest of Palestine rebuilt Jerusalem which was razed to the ground by the Roman Army, and which today is NOT the same Jerusalem as the one Christ walked and lived in.

...

Not one person who calls himself a Jew today can trace his ancestry to Abraham or Jacob: 1) he cannot prove which Hebrew tribe he’s from, and 2) a Jew is only a non-Hebraic convert to the faith of the Pharisees of old.

As a result, the Israel of today – created in 1948 on the stolen land of Palestine – is an impostor state that is not the same as the Israel of the bible:

a) it is not comprised of the 10 Hebrew tribes like in scriptures; b) the country’s current geographical demarcation is not as delineated by God in the book of Joshua; c) the nation would be called Judah instead of Israel, with the Levites sheltered therein, if Jews today were of the tribe of David; and d) modern Israel is made up of Jewish converts who are not Semitic descendants of Abraham, and more specifically not descendants of Abraham’s 12 grandsons who formed the 12 Hebrew
tribes and whose offsprings were all cousins to one another.

“To your (Abraham’s) descendants I give this land….” Genesis 15:18

However, Palestinian Arabs are Semites, descendants of Abraham; and therefore, rightful inheritors of the land, not converted Jews.

...

Historian Flavius Josephus in The Wars of the Judahites frames the destruction and massacre in 70 AD this way:

“Now the number of those that were carried captive during the whole war was collected to be ninety-seven thousand; as was the number of those that perished during the whole siege, 1.1 Million, the greater part of whom were indeed of the same nation, [with the citizens of Jerusalem,] but not belonging to the city itself; for they were come up from all the country to the feast of unleavened bread, and were on a sudden shut up by an army, which, at the very first, occasioned so great a straitness among them, that there came a pestilential destruction upon them, and soon afterward such a famine as destroyed them more suddenly.

“Caesar exhibited all sorts of shows in Cesarea Philippi. There, the captives were destroyed, some being thrown to wild beasts, and others in multitudes forced to kill one another, as if they were enemies.

Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire city and temple, but should leave as many of the towers standing as were of the greatest eminency; that is, Phasaelus, and Hippicus, and Mariamne; and so much of the wall as enclosed the city on the west side. This wall was spared, in order to afford a camp for such as were to lie in garrison, as were the towers also spared, in order to demonstrate to posterity what kind of city it was, and how well fortified, which the Roman valor had subdued; but for all the rest of the wall, it was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those that dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it had ever been inhabited.”

...

Jewish Historian Shlomo Sand frames the origin of Jews (not Hebrews) this way:

“Then there is the question of the exile of 70 AD. There has been no real research into this turning point in Jewish history, the cause of the diaspora. And for a simple reason: the Romans never exiled any nation from anywhere on the eastern seaboard of the Mediterranean…

“But if there was no exile after 70 A.D., where did all the Jews who have populated the Mediterranean since antiquity come from? The smokescreen of national historiography hides an astonishing reality. From the Maccabean revolt of the mid-2nd century BC (on)… Judaism was the most actively proselytizing religion…

The most significant mass conversion occurred in the 8th century, in the massive Khazar kingdom between the Black and Caspian seas. The expansion of Judaism from the Caucasus into modern Ukraine created a multiplicity of communities, many of which retreated from the 13th century Mongol invasions into eastern Europe. There, with Jews from the Slavic lands to the south and from what is now modern Germany, they formed the basis of Yiddish culture…”
 
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The entire article is worth a read, but just quoting some excerpts.


Virulent Zionist Jews stole the land of Palestine and transformed it into Israel. In the process they developed a hatred for Arab Muslims, especially Palestinian Muslims, even though they both supposedly worship the same God, the God of Abraham.

However, during the time of the ancient Hebrews the non-Hebraic proselytes used to live amongst their Hebraic proselytizers with no problem. God even commanded it.

“If a stranger lives as a foreigner with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. The stranger who lives as a foreigner with you shall be to you as the native-born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you lived as foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh your God.” Leviticus 19:33-34

One would think that because of the many similarities Jews have with Muslims, such as circumcision and the like, that the Zionists would concede to living in harmony. But they don’t want to. And that’s because it’s not about faith. It’s not about God and the Bible or God and His promises and commandments. It’s about land. And more land. A land without Arabs. They want the whole enchilada. The whole pie. It’s an obsession the Ashkenazic leaders of Israel have successfully inculcated in their coreligionists.

That obsession has turned an entire people toward a malignant racism that has morphed into an Apartheid system worse than the one that took shape in South Africa. So much so that the whole country is openly talking about the genocide of the Palestinians living among them, mistreating them, killing them, and bombing them at will in the hope they will leave the land in disgust.

Ironically, though Islam and Judaism are similar in many ways, where they differ greatly is in their belief of who Jesus Christ was.

Muslims believe that Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit and of the Virgin Mary, was only a prophet to the ancient Israelites, was not crucified to death, went to heaven without dying, and is expected to return soon.

However, according to Talmudic Jews, Jesus was a sorcerer and a demon-possessed liar who is now boiling in excrement in hell and whose mother Mary was a whore. From Wikipedia according to the Talmud:

In Gittin 56b, 57a a story is mentioned in which Onkelos summons up the spirit of Yeshu [or Yeshua (Jesus)] who sought to harm Israel. He describes his punishment in the afterlife as boiling in excrement.

In addition, at the 1240 Disputation of Paris, Donin presented the allegation that the Talmud was blasphemous towards Mary, the mother of Jesus (“Miriam” in Hebrew) and this criticism has been repeated by many Christian sources. The texts cited by critics include Sanhedrin 67a, Sanhedrin 106a, and Shabbath 104b.

Thus it seems that Muslims are much closer to Christ than are Jews.
...

Besides, most religious Jews follow the man-inspired Talmud (full of Babylonian superstitions), and not the God-inspired Old Testament where God’s promises and commandments are recorded. Even thus, many within Judaism adhere to the belief that Jews should not be occupying Palestine, and they recognize only the Palestinian government.

Furthermore, the seed of Jacob mentioned in the Bible is prophetically applied to seed, singular, which seed is Jesus Christ who was repeatedly called the Son of David, himself a descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

At first glance, if anyone is to inherit Palestine, it should be Christians, spiritual descendants of Jesus, the seed of Jacob. That understanding was in fact used to execute the evil Crusades of the Middle Ages. Needless to say it is a perverted comprehension of what that particular inheritance means.

The true Israel of God is now those who throughout the earth adhere to the New Covenant of Christ. They are called by the new name Christians. Their new promised land is the heavenly paradise promised to Christ’s true followers, with its capital city, the new Jerusalem, being from above.

...

The so-called “Christian” pastors and teachers, who impart that the Old Testament favoritism of one particular group of people still applies today, do so only to spit and trample on the works of Christ.

“God does not show favoritism.” Romans 2:11

These wolves in sheep clothing are nothing but mammonists paid by Zionist Jews to brainwash Christians with the drivel that there are two covenants simultaneously at play. Their false teachings are meant to persuade Christians into sanctioning the theft of Palestine by a bunch of impostors who are pretending to be Hebrews. However, they are only digging themselves deep into hell’s volcanic fire.

Christians, stay away from these men!

For their whole purpose is to deny Christ’s New Covenant which is freely available to all nations on earth without respect to color, race, geographical demarcation, or spiritual condition.

In other words, they want to destroy the New Covenant whose aim is to forge a spiritually egalitarian brotherhood of man throughout the earth, with Jesus as the loving big brother.

“For both the One who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are of the same family. That is why Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.” Hebrews 2:11

If one is dead set on applying ancestry and racial stock as to who should inherit the land of Palestine, then the Arabs clearly win – the Palestinian Arabs to be more precise. For Arabs of the Middle East, which include cultural Arabs such as Chaldeans, Assyrians, Aramaics, Phoenicians, and Syriacs, are the only living bloodline descendants of Abraham and the only true Semites, not converted Jews.

...

Besides, when was the last time you heard of a prophet whom God sent to anoint a King over modern Israel, as He used to do in the old days? What of the animal sacrifices? What of the lamb to be killed and eaten during Passover, like Jesus did when He established the new covenant with his disciples, a lamb that was killed and eaten in a private home? The sacrifice of the Passover Lamb in the Hebrew home was God’s very covenant with each individual ancient Hebrew, and that’s why Jesus repeated it with his disciples in order to introduce the new covenant.

Do Jews today kill a lamb for Passover in their own homes to keep the old covenant alive? Is modern Israel comprised of only Judea and Samaria as it was in the Old Testament and divided into seven lots as God directed Joshua, with each tribe settling on its own parcel? Are the bloodline descendants of the Levites still around to restock a future Temple, because no other Hebrew tribe can?

The answer to all of these questions is resoundingly negative. And ironically, Judea and Samaria of the Bible (i.e., the Kingdoms of Judah and Israel) are today mostly inside the West Bank of Palestine (map on your right, and aptly named Judea and Samaria even by thieving Zionists) and not inside Modern Israel.

...
To all Israeli Jews we say, denounce and renounce your Zionist leaders, for just as they sold you out to Hitler and his 150,000 Jewish soldiers, they will sell you out once more to be butchered.

Do not think for a minute that they have your best interest at heart – no government in the world has the best interest of their people at heart. Otherwise, why have they led you into a country under false pretense and brainwashed you to hate all your Muslim neighbors, when you are surrounded on all sides by these very neighbors? Where will you run to when all hell breaks loose? Into the sea? Isn’t that what they’ve been telling you over and over, that “they” want to run the Jews into the sea?

With that meme they’re getting you accustomed to that very idea for when it actually happens. The sea is the only place where they have not created enemies for you, and they would if they could. They want to watch you flail and drown, while they fly away in their private jets to Switzerland after they have stolen all your money and transferred it to some tax haven, only to reinvent themselves somewhere else. Ask George Soros how he did it during World War 2. If you still don’t believe it, then remember why and how you got to Palestine.
...
Together with imperial America, the Zionist leaders have ignited the suffering of millions of innocents, Christians and Muslims, who are presently living in torment, not only in Palestine but throughout the Middle East. This has been orchestrated in order to create a cauldron they hope to pour on all the inhabitants of the area, Israelis included.

CONCLUSION: A LOOK BEHIND THE SCENES

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Ephesians 6:12

The demonic forces are hell-bent on making the land of Palestine suffer for having brought about Jesus, the Prince of Peace. They’ve been tormenting that land for over 2000 years, with the ultimate goal of punishing Abraham’s only biological descendants, the Arabs throughout the Middle East. That’s their way of trying to eliminate that entire bloodline, so as to remove any physical vestige of the kinsmen of the One who beat their boss Satan on the cross.

They see these Arabs, especially the Arab Christians, as representing a line in the sand, a true embodiment of the obsolete Old Covenant which Satan cleverly used to kill Christ, but is now rendered void by the resurrected Messiah. By somewhat “reconstructing” the Old Covenant close to its original location, they have pushed the Middle East on the edge of the abyss, in order
to deplete the area of Christians and to kill as many real Semites as they can.
 
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Are you saying that some descendants of Abraham who remained Jews survived and fled to eastern europe?
And there they mixed with the ashkenazis?
How are you defining "jewish"?
Yes that's what i'm saying.
As far as being jewish is concerned, in the context of bible promises, it is a bloodline.
The camp of modern 'jews' of the torah, are the descendants of the camp that rejected Jesus and are no part of the future remnant who are chosen by God.
The remnant were the ones who believed in Jesus. 'remnant' as in the righteous branch.
 
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Was Jesus a "Jew"?
If going by the modern definition of "Jew", no.

(Again, i disagree with the author that the apocalypse already occured)


The faith that is known as Judaism today was never called thus.

Judaism is actually Pharisaism, and therefore a misnomer since it is neither the doctrine of Judah nor the doctrine that Christ the Judahite practiced, hence not an Abrahamic faith.

“Pharisaism shaped the character of Judaism and the life and thought of the Jew for all the future,” explains the Jewish Encyclopedia.

In fact, Pharisaism is the pagan doctrine of the Pharisees of old, an evil creed they brought back from their Babylonian captivity. It does not follow the truth of the Bible, neither of the Old Testament nor of the New. Its central tenets are found in a book called the Talmud (the real Satanic Verses), a book full of worldly traditions, lies, and superstitions.

“The Babylonian Talmud is based on the mystical religious practices of the Babylonians which were assimilated by the Judahite Rabbis during their Babylonian captivity around 600 B.C.,” wrote Edward Hendrie in Solving the Mystery of Babylon the Great. “The Rabbis then used these occult traditions in place of the word of God.”

And that is why Jesus was constantly rebuking the Pharisees.

The term Judaism was first coined by historian Flavius Josephus as he described the history, the civilization, the language, the poetry, the religion, the art, the science, the manners, the customs, the institutions, and the demise of the Ancient Judahites. It was not coined with the intention of starting a religion, and nor is Judaism even mentioned in the Bible.

The people who first seized the term Judaism and its historical content were first-century Christians. They were using it as an educational tool to acquaint themselves with the true Judahite Hebrews who practiced the doctrine of Christ. Such a mechanism allowed them to better comprehend the Epistles of the Apostles.

As a result, they were able to grasp two important facts that have eluded today’s Christians:

a) that the Judahite Hebrews who became Christians were the true Israel of God, whom God spared the Great Tribulation during the Apocalypse of AD 70 – an event a lot of Christians today think is in the future;

b) that those who followed the Pharisees were not the true Israel of God and therefore were not spared during said catastrophe that saw the genocide and the end of the Hebrew race.

...


Another example is when many Christians today interact with a Jew they just met, their immediate reaction is to say, “Oh, Jesus was a Jew too.” What they’re unwittingly saying is, “Oh, Jesus was a Pharisee too.”

Oh, the blasphemy!

A word is what it is according to the meaning of its time. The word “Jew” today is so entrenched in describing one who follows Pharisaism (or Judaism) that it’s been completely emptied of its original meaning. Hence it no longer describes a Judahite or Judean, the actual word in the non-translated bible. That is why it needs to be struck from the translated bible, because all it does is create confusion in the Christian mind; and that very confusion is exactly what the demonic forces want in order to unseat Christians as the new Chosen People – chosen to love and to do good – and to calumniate Christ as a Pharisee.
...
THE TALMUD IN JUDAISM

Both classical and modern-day Judaism gives precedence to the Talmud more than the Torah and other books of the Old Testament. The article establishes the central role and authority of Talmud from standard Jewish and secular sources.

There is a misconception about Judaism common among Christians and Muslims. This is the misleading idea that Judaism is a ‘biblical religion’; that the Old Testament has in Judaism the same central place and legal authority which the Bible has for Protestant or even Catholic Christianity. The legal interpretation of sacred texts is rigidly fixed in Judaism – but by the Talmud, rather than by the Bible itself (Shahak 1994).

"If the Bible is the cornerstone of Judaism, then the Talmud is the central pillar, soaring up from the foundations and supporting the entire spiritual and intellectual edifice. In many ways the Talmud is the most important book in Jewish culture, the backbone of creativity and of national life. No other work has had a comparable influence on the theory and practice of Jewish life, shaping spiritual content and serving as a guide to conduct.”[2]

“Historically speaking, the Talmud is the central pillar of Jewish culture. This culture is many faceted, but each of its numerous aspects is connected in some way with the Talmud. This is true not only of the literature that deals directly with the interpretation or continuation of the Talmud, but also of all other types of Jewish creativity.”[3]

The importance of the Talmud and its authority can be understood by what the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia states,

“The Talmud is undoubtedly one of the most remarkable literary productions of all times. It is an encyclopedia covering the whole scene of human life. It is almost impossible to convey to one who has not spent years in the study of this complex work an idea of its true nature, as even the most exact translations cannot catch the inner spirit of the Talmud … As a repository of the Oral Law, the Talmud’s authority is regarded as divine by Orthodox Jews, and hence it is held to be binding and immutable. Conservative and Reform Jews, however, do not recognize the absolute binding power of the Talmud, although they acknowledge the great part it has played in determining Jewish religious ideas and observances.”[4]

THE ROLE OF THE BABYLONIAN TALMUD IN JUDAISM

The Talmud is not an ancient document with no relevance to modern Judaism. On the contrary, the Encyclopedia Britannica tells us that with the rebirth of a Jewish national state since 1948 and the revival of Jewish culture, the Talmud has achieved renewed importance. Orthodox Judaism has always focused upon its study and has believed it to be the absolute religious authority. It has become one of the aims of religious (Orthodox) Jews there to establish the law of Talmud as the general law of the state.

Aside from Israel, the legal system described above has continued to function down to the present day in Jewish communities all over the world. The jurisdiction of rabbinic courts is voluntarily accepted by Orthodox Jews. These courts continue to exert authority, especially in the areas of family and dietary law, the synagogue, and the organization of charity and social activity. Furthermore, Conservative Judaism, too, has always been committed to the Talmud. Thus, a network of day schools and higher institutions of learning in which the Talmud occupies a major role in the curriculum has been established. Scores of young Conservative Jews now search in the Talmud for answers to their crucial problems.[6]
 
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@ToxicFemininitySucks
You're spot on here man. This is not judaism.

imagine the israelites at the time of Moses, dissing Moses and saying 'ABRAHAM AND ISAAC DIDNT FOLLOW THESE LAWS SO WHY SHOULD WE?'
the point is the story changes..and the same way the story changed when Jesus came.
these jews are just like the israelites who followed korrah's rebellion.
they have no excuses. Jesus is foretold very clearly in the bible and so is islam. isaiah 42 is just one example and the conclusion of it is a total condemnation of 'jews.

You should read Wisdom chapters 1-3 btw..and take onte that the jewish rabbis eventually rejected this book and thus these silly protestants curse the book and wish it was never written.
now read those 3 chapters and read verse 4:157 in the Quran and compare the 2.

the point is lost between most christians and muslims.
it was not the pharisees but the sadducee's who rejected the resurrection. they were materialists like the quraysh and believe this is the only life.
Read Matthew 22
in Wisdom 2, it foretold the sadducee sect and their attitude towards 'the righteous man' (Jesus)
 

Red Sky at Morning

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14,533
So @ToxicFemininitySucks -

First, on red hair…


Second and more important, I take it that you wouldn’t view Hitler’s obsession with killing the Jews as having a spiritual motivation?

The Holocaust certainly appears to be alluded to in Psalm 102:


My great grandfather saw the conditions of cruelty the Jews who had been systematically killed by a regime that used a blend of conspiracy theory and replacement theology as its justification. I have certainly always seen it as Satan wishing to destroy the people who God had promised Abraham to preserve and therefore prove God a liar.

If the historicist analysis is true, and only a complex, alternate reading of (apparently) hopeful future promises to the nation is valid, God may not be a liar but He could certainly be accused of being a sharp salesman with a slippery contract. That’s not the God I know, so I think it’s best that I conclude my contributions to this thread here.
 
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fotw

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So @ToxicFemininitySucks -

First, on red hair…


Second and more important, I take it that you wouldn’t view Hitler’s obsession with killing the Jews as having a spiritual motivation?

The Holocaust certainly appears to be alluded to in Psalm 102:


My great grandfather saw the conditions of cruelty the Jews who had been systematically killed by a regime that used a blend of conspiracy theory and replacement theology as its justification. I have certainly always seen it as Satan wishing to destroy the people who God had promised Abraham to preserve and therefore prove God a liar.

If the historicist analysis is true, and only a complex, alternate reading of (apparently) hopeful future promises to the nation is valid, God may not be a liar but He could certainly be accused of being a sharp salesman with a slippery contract. That’s not the God I know, so I think it’s best that I conclude my contributions to this thread here.
Very sorry for what your great grandfather and those around him had to go through. I'm afraid it appears the Jewish people and the German people back then were being used as pawns by those with long term goals. It also appears that the Jewish people and the Palestinian people have been used as pawns for the past 75 years so that those with long term goals can get their world war. This is what they do, they cause confusion and division anyway they can and we as pawns fall for it.

It is a shame how they cause believers to be divided against each other. I believe If somehow all Jews, Christians, and Muslims became united under God, their whole house of cards would crumble.
 

Flarepath

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Jesus was born in Israel so technically that makes him jewish-
"...Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?”...The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans)" (John 4:7-9)

...but the word 'jew' also has a completely separate meaning and can also refer to the jewish priestly classes and hardcore devoted jews-
Jesus said- "I will be with you only a little longer. You will look for me, and just as I told the Jews, so I tell you now: Where I am going, you cannot come" (John 13:33)

It's a bit like Elvis fans, there are the ordinary everyday ones and there are the hardcore ones who dress in Elvis outfits, attend Elvis conventions, buy Elvis books etc and turn rooms in their homes into shrines dedicated to him, right Elv?-

 

irrationalNinja

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It is a shame how they cause believers to be divided against each other. I believe If somehow all Jews, Christians, and Muslims became united under God, their whole house of cards would crumble.
Imho they worship different entities:

Jews worship intellect.
Christians worship God.
Muslims worship the Moon (god).

Therefore, will never be united under “religion.” If they do unite, we should be worried.
 
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