Rather than derail anyone's thread, i decided to make my own to discuss the matter of Christians and supporting the modern country of israel, the biblical nation of Israel, "Jews" and/or Jews.
Where im coming from:
All i see, to be honest, are extreme positions and strawmans. Occasionally someone says the right thing, but for the wrong reason. Is what im going to say so unthinkable? Im not special, so why hasn't anyone thought of this...
Honestly, im starting to wonder if practically everyone is just here to repeat propaganda for either "side"...
Anyway, i am NOT a "replacement theology" believer, i don't think "the church" is Israel.
I believe scripture has multiple applications, and not every prophecy has been fulfilled.
I am not a Muslim. The Lord Jesus Christ is God's only begotten son.
Not am i a marxist, liberal, democrat, woke, insert-whatever-other-discreditng-word... i wholeheartedly disagree with cultural marxist tactics of cancel culture and silencing/censoring others. Caring about children being murdered should not be labeled "woke", but i guess that's where we are in 2023...
What i am is a believer in the Bible (ALL of it, in context) and a conspiracy theorist. I was a conspiracy theorist before i was a Christian, and becoming a Christian did not make me any less of a conspiracy theorist.
And what i am saying is that no, a Christian does not HAVE to "support israel" (regardless of what the overpaid, bought off pastor says...)
I thinks its important that Christians should be able to tell the difference between what is biblical and what isn't.
Israel according to the Bible.
Many Christians here are Zionists. They believe the Jews are still a chosen people or nation. They believe that the Old Testament promises to Israel will be literally fulfilled through the Jews at the end of time. They also believe that one of the terms of the Abrahamic covenant was God's unconditional promise that Israel would have everlasting possession of the land of Palestine. Richard W. DeHaan wrote:
"The descendants of Abraham were given the land of Canaan in a free, unconditional, and unchangeable grant from God." DeHaan, Israel and the Nations in Prophecy, p. 93.
But actually the Bible states something different. I will only use the analogy of the Olive tree from Romans 11. The Olive tree represents Israel and Paul tells us,
"And if some of the branches were broken off (the Jews), and you, being a wild olive tree (believing Gentiles), were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root (Jesus) and fatness of the olive tree (Israel)" (
Romans 11:17). Paul is saying that some Jews left God's Israel (the olive tree) and some wild shoots ( believing Gentiles) joined Israel and became citizens of God's Israel which is the New Testament is spiritual not a physical place. Those Jews that never left Israel are also believers in Christ and still part of God's Israel. Pau; goes on to say that the Jews that left the Israel (the olive tree) can come back and join it, "
This goes hand in hand with the rest of scripture of who now constitutes Israel in the New Covenant:
"Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him" (
Acts 10:34-35).
"...that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith" (
Galatians 3:14).
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise" (
Galatians 3:28-29).
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God" (
Galatians 6:15-16).
See also
Romans 2:28-29, 9:6, 1 Corinthians 1:23-24, Ephesians 2:11-13, 1 Peter 2:9-10.
Anyway, i am NOT a "replacement theology" believer, i don't think "the church" is Israel.
Biblically the Church is Israel in the New Covenant as it was in the Old. In the old Covenant Gentiles joined Israel too but they had to be circumcised in those days. Some of the Gentiles that were part of Israel were Bathsheba's husband Uriah, Ruth, Tamar, Rahab etc. They are all one people who all accept and believe in Christ as their personal Saviour.
Ephesians 4:4, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling."
Colossians 1:18, "And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence."
Jesus is not head of people who rejected Him (the Jews that broke off from Israel). He is the head of the body/Israel/church/people who accept and believe in Him from all over the world whether they are Jews or Gentiles. They are those who are circumcised inwardly in their heart in the spirit (
Romans 2:28-29). Therefore they are all Israelites/Jews and they will all be saved.
And what i am saying is that no, a Christian does not HAVE to "support israel" (regardless of what the overpaid, bought off pastor says...)
True. The Israel of God in the New Covenant does not have a physical country in the middle east in this sinful world. Their country is heaven and the New Kingdom to come. That is the promised land that all true Christians are looking forward to live in for eternity with Christ.
Christians should be part of and support God's Israel/true church/one body/one flock according to His Word and not the middle eastern state of Israel. If a Christian understands what Israel is according to the Bible they would not believe and mistake the state of Israel as the chosen nation/people and therefore God's Israel.
